Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    Its exactly this statement (that I underlined) that is scary.  Perhaps you don't see how having your behavior and words dictated to you by some authority is a totalitarian idea used throughout history by brutal dictators to criminalize ideas they disagreed with.  Again, they put freedom of speech in the constitution for a reason.  

    The standard has already been set at what offends.  Outside of totalitarian efforts against the constitution you cannot go further.  You cannot ban words or ideas.  There is no reason why your idea of what is acceptable is any more correct then someone else's idea.  The idea of which words are "bad" or "good" is completely arbitrary and varies from person to person.  



    Shen, I really don't understand how you can operate in this world if standards of behavior are so scary and incomprehensible to you.

    The main problem in the Dolphins locker room seems to be lack of leadership.  It appears neither Ireland nor Philbin have ANY clue what's going on in there.  RICHIE INCOGNITO was on their "leadership council."

    Even before this whole thing, he was possibly the most despised player in the league.  And not in the Rodney Harrison-sense of "he's so good and nasty on the field, that opponents hate him but his teammates love him."  In the sense of "he's just plain nasty and has no moral compass."  Incognito is the one who seemed to set the acceptable standard of behavior in that locker room.  Incognito should NEVER be the arbiter of what is or isn't acceptable.  If Richie Incognito is your locker room leader, you're going to have a bad time.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Incognito did not bully Martin. The "I will kill your whole family" text is a creepy picture of a lady and her dog. It's on the internet.

    I'm waiting for Martin to come out and say his problems werent so much with Incognito but his struggles with the locker room culture were becoming too much to handle being a gay man in the NFL.

    Isn't this obvious?



    That dog picture was the text that Martin sent Incognito, not the other way around.  Incognito's text was just that; pure text to Martin.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Incognito did not bully Martin. The "I will kill your whole family" text is a creepy picture of a lady and her dog. It's on the internet.

    I'm waiting for Martin to come out and say his problems werent so much with Incognito but his struggles with the locker room culture were becoming too much to handle being a gay man in the NFL.

    Isn't this obvious?



    That dog picture was the text that Martin sent Incognito, not the other way around.  Incognito's text was just that; pure text to Martin.



    there's two reasons for sending that text.  Either it was a threat or it was a joke.  Are you on record as saying you believe Incognitos text was a threat but Martins was a joke?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Incognito did not bully Martin. The "I will kill your whole family" text is a creepy picture of a lady and her dog. It's on the internet.

    I'm waiting for Martin to come out and say his problems werent so much with Incognito but his struggles with the locker room culture were becoming too much to handle being a gay man in the NFL.

    Isn't this obvious?



    That dog picture was the text that Martin sent Incognito, not the other way around.  Incognito's text was just that; pure text to Martin.



    there's two reasons for sending that text.  Either it was a threat or it was a joke.  Are you on record as saying you believe Incognitos text was a threat but Martins was a joke?



    I don't think Incognito's was a threat in his mind.  It probably wasn't a threat in Martin's mind either, but I think Martin considered it harassment, in conjunction with the whole Dolphins locker room environment.

    Martin tried to fit in even though he didn't particularly like the environment.  He said and sent off color things himself to fit in, such as the pic.  The picture, while off-color, is pretty obviously humor.  Incognito's text is also off-color, but is not obviously humor.  It's a junior high version of humor where "shock" counts as "funny."  After putting up with this crap for 18 months (which included going to management and being told to punch Incognito), Martin had enough and left.

    Incognito is the kind of guy who needs somebody else to set his boundaries.  He needs someone to tell him to knock off the dumb texts, to not schedule team meetings at strip clubs.  He does not have the governor in his head that most of us take for granted that shows how to behave in polite society (even an NFL locker room should have a baseline standard of civility).

    Instead, the Dolphins designated INCOGNITO as that guy who sets the acceptable behavior for others.  It's a mind-blowing lack of leadership in that organization.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    Its exactly this statement (that I underlined) that is scary.  Perhaps you don't see how having your behavior and words dictated to you by some authority is a totalitarian idea used throughout history by brutal dictators to criminalize ideas they disagreed with.  Again, they put freedom of speech in the constitution for a reason.  

    The standard has already been set at what offends.  Outside of totalitarian efforts against the constitution you cannot go further.  You cannot ban words or ideas.  There is no reason why your idea of what is acceptable is any more correct then someone else's idea.  The idea of which words are "bad" or "good" is completely arbitrary and varies from person to person.  



    Shen, I really don't understand how you can operate in this world if standards of behavior are so scary and incomprehensible to you.

    The main problem in the Dolphins locker room seems to be lack of leadership.  It appears neither Ireland nor Philbin have ANY clue what's going on in there.  RICHIE INCOGNITO was on their "leadership council."

    Even before this whole thing, he was possibly the most despised player in the league.  And not in the Rodney Harrison-sense of "he's so good and nasty on the field, that opponents hate him but his teammates love him."  In the sense of "he's just plain nasty and has no moral compass."  Incognito is the one who seemed to set the acceptable standard of behavior in that locker room.  Incognito should NEVER be the arbiter of what is or isn't acceptable.  If Richie Incognito is your locker room leader, you're going to have a bad time.



    Is it okay to call someone a queer?  Is it okay if there's a show called queer eye for the straight guy that was beamed into everyones living room for years?  How about when two girls call each other b******.  Clearly context matters, words don't matter.  As I've said, you don't get to decide which words offend other people, only which words offend you. 

    You are missing the point, RI is not the arbiter of what's acceptable except to himself.  It's clear RI threw around the N word in the locker room, and so did his teammates including Martin.  But they've come out and said they support him didn't don't believe he's racist (including the black players).  Who are you to tell them how they feel?  Now you may disagree, you may think they should be offended, and if you we're in that locker room you may have been offended but- you don't matter.  Your not in charge of who gets offended over what in places you don't work.  It's not clear Martin found the word offensive, or the killing jokes offensive.  If he did, then it's bizarre to participate.  We haven't heard from Martin so we just don't know.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

    Is it okay to call someone a queer?  Is it okay if there's a show called queer eye for the straight guy that was beamed into everyones living room for years?  How about when two girls call each other b******.  Clearly context matters, words don't matter.  As I've said, you don't get to decide which words offend other people, only which words offend you. 

    You are missing the point, RI is not the arbiter of what's acceptable except to himself.  It's clear RI threw around the N word in the locker room, and so did his teammates including Martin.  But they've come out and said they support him didn't don't believe he's racist (including the black players).  Who are you to tell them how they feel?  Now you may disagree, you may think they should be offended, and if you we're in that locker room you may have been offended but- you don't matter.  Your not in charge of who gets offended over what in places you don't work.  It's not clear Martin found the word offensive, or the killing jokes offensive.  If he did, then it's bizarre to participate.  We haven't heard from Martin so we just don't know. 



    We're not talking about social situations.  We're talking about a work situation.  In a work situation, it is absolutely not okay to call someone a q****, to call someone a b**** or a n*****.  It doesn't matter if the workplace is a Fortune 500 company or an NFL lockerroom, management is expected to set that standard that says those things aren't right.  Instead, they let Richie Incognito set the standard of decency for the entire lockerroom.

    It's not about telling people that they should be offended.  It's about showing leadership and good judgement.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    Nothing has come out to change my original opinion on the matter.

    Complete FAIL and lack of leadership from the top down in the Dolphin organization. Including the captains and rest of the team.

    Something may yet surface to change my mind but as of yet, nope nothing.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?


    Either way I don't think Incognito meant to send threatening messages. He's an idiot more than anything.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to RSPCB73's comment:

    Also, Jay Glazer's interview was more sympathetic because Incognito was an ex-client of his!




    I disagree.  Gay Glazer doesn't pull his punches.  I follow Glazer a lot, the guy is solid.  He is given a tremendous amount of respect from the players and sports world and he has a massive amount of connections.  The dude is as legit as they come in that line of work.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

    Is it okay to call someone a queer?  Is it okay if there's a show called queer eye for the straight guy that was beamed into everyones living room for years?  How about when two girls call each other b******.  Clearly context matters, words don't matter.  As I've said, you don't get to decide which words offend other people, only which words offend you. 

    You are missing the point, RI is not the arbiter of what's acceptable except to himself.  It's clear RI threw around the N word in the locker room, and so did his teammates including Martin.  But they've come out and said they support him didn't don't believe he's racist (including the black players).  Who are you to tell them how they feel?  Now you may disagree, you may think they should be offended, and if you we're in that locker room you may have been offended but- you don't matter.  Your not in charge of who gets offended over what in places you don't work.  It's not clear Martin found the word offensive, or the killing jokes offensive.  If he did, then it's bizarre to participate.  We haven't heard from Martin so we just don't know. 

     



    We're not talking about social situations.  We're talking about a work situation.  In a work situation, it is absolutely not okay to call someone a q****, to call someone a b**** or a n*****.  It doesn't matter if the workplace is a Fortune 500 company or an NFL lockerroom, management is expected to set that standard that says those things aren't right.  Instead, they let Richie Incognito set the standard of decency for the entire lockerroom.

     

    It's not about telling people that they should be offended.  It's about showing leadership and good judgement.



    If the management says they find those things offensive then the standard of law has been met.  But you don't get to decide that, it doesn't matter if you think it's great leadership or poor, if you think it's offensive or not- you're not there.  Clearly people can and do call each other n****** at work and don't find it offensive.  In fact I'm quite sure that even those people that don't find it offensive would find it offensive in another context.  But you continue to ignore context, the same reason RI and Martin could use the word is the same reason I could use the word qu*** on here without offending.  The fact that you've had to create a straw man to make it sound like an attack when you know it was a joke is evidence that you have no point.  Yes, if it was an attack it would be wrong- but it wasn't.   

    The Dolphins organization can create the standard of acceptable behavior, you can't do it for them.  To do so is to provide that your value system is superior to theirs.  Martin was either offended or he wasn't, and if he wasn't then there's nothing to see here.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

     

    Is it okay to call someone a queer?  Is it okay if there's a show called queer eye for the straight guy that was beamed into everyones living room for years?  How about when two girls call each other b******.  Clearly context matters, words don't matter.  As I've said, you don't get to decide which words offend other people, only which words offend you. 

    You are missing the point, RI is not the arbiter of what's acceptable except to himself.  It's clear RI threw around the N word in the locker room, and so did his teammates including Martin.  But they've come out and said they support him didn't don't believe he's racist (including the black players).  Who are you to tell them how they feel?  Now you may disagree, you may think they should be offended, and if you we're in that locker room you may have been offended but- you don't matter.  Your not in charge of who gets offended over what in places you don't work.  It's not clear Martin found the word offensive, or the killing jokes offensive.  If he did, then it's bizarre to participate.  We haven't heard from Martin so we just don't know. 

     



    We're not talking about social situations.  We're talking about a work situation.  In a work situation, it is absolutely not okay to call someone a q****, to call someone a b**** or a n*****.  It doesn't matter if the workplace is a Fortune 500 company or an NFL lockerroom, management is expected to set that standard that says those things aren't right.  Instead, they let Richie Incognito set the standard of decency for the entire lockerroom.

     

    It's not about telling people that they should be offended.  It's about showing leadership and good judgement.

     



    If the management says they find those things offensive then the standard of law has been met.  But you don't get to decide that, it doesn't matter if you think it's great leadership or poor, if you think it's offensive or not- you're not there.  Clearly people can and do call each other n****** at work and don't find it offensive.  In fact I'm quite sure that even those people that don't find it offensive would find it offensive in another context.  But you continue to ignore context, the same reason RI and Martin could use the word is the same reason I could use the word qu*** on here without offending.  The fact that you've had to create a straw man to make it sound like an attack when you know it was a joke is evidence that you have no point.  Yes, if it was an attack it would be wrong- but it wasn't.   

     

    The Dolphins organization can create the standard of acceptable behavior, you can't do it for them.  To do so is to provide that your value system is superior to theirs.  Martin was either offended or he wasn't, and if he wasn't then there's nothing to see here.




    Um...   Theres nothing there either fkking way, verbally Offending is not a crime last time I checked.  everybody take a deep breath...  (deep breath)  T-h-e-r-e i-s n-o-t-h-i-n-g t-h-e-r-e.....!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:

    Nothing has come out to change my original opinion on the matter.

    Complete FAIL and lack of leadership from the top down in the Dolphin organization. Including the captains and rest of the team.

    Something may yet surface to change my mind but as of yet, nope nothing.

     



    A sensible perspective from someone who I believe coaches football.  

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    Martin was either offended or he wasn't, and if he wasn't then there's nothing to see here.



    In any workplace in America... ANY WORKPLACE IN AMERICA... if one employee said to another what was said here, there would be at the minimum an immediate meeting with HR, REGARDLESS IF EITHER OF THE TWO PEOPLE INVOLVED WERE OFFENDED.

    I've said it before, but maybe it was buried too deep in my posts.  It doesn't matter if Martin was sincerely offended; the behavior in the Dolphins locker room would be unacceptable to management of any competently run organization in any industry.  Dolphins management needs to take control of their locker room and set standards; if the status quo actually reflects their current standards, the NFL and NFLPA will crack down HARD on them.

    This is just common sense stuff.  I honestly am baffled at how you don't see that.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    Martin was either offended or he wasn't, and if he wasn't then there's nothing to see here.



    In any workplace in America... ANY WORKPLACE IN AMERICA... if one employee said to another what was said here, there would be at the minimum an immediate meeting with HR, REGARDLESS IF EITHER OF THE TWO PEOPLE INVOLVED WERE OFFENDED.

    I've said it before, but maybe it was buried too deep in my posts.  It doesn't matter if Martin was sincerely offended; the behavior in the Dolphins locker room would be unacceptable to management of any competently run organization in any industry.  Dolphins management needs to take control of their locker room and set standards; if the status quo actually reflects their current standards, the NFL and NFLPA will crack down HARD on them.

    This is just common sense stuff.  I honestly am baffled at how you don't see that.



    There is context involved in analyzing any workplace environment. In a vacuum you're right, the stuff that went on in that locker room would be out of bounds in the average workplace.

    But a professional sports team locker room, or an oil rig or a boxing gym, while all workplaces are not the same as a bank or a department store or a hospital. Some of the language and behavior that is common and acceptable on an oil rig would get you fired quick in those other places.  A reasonable oil rig worker has a different expectations as to the workplace environment than does a reasonable bank employee.

    The more stuff that comes out, the more it looks like Martin just decided he didn't want to be there for whatever reason. But you can't be a willing participant in all manner of hyjinx one day and then decide it's unacceptable the next.  Well, you can but you can't get paid because of it...except well, maybe he will because that's the American way. 

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:



    There is context involved in analyzing any workplace environment. In a vacuum you're right, the stuff that went on in that locker room would be out of bounds in the average workplace.

    But a professional sports team locker room, or an oil rig or a boxing gym, while all workplaces are not the same as a bank or a department store or a hospital. Some of the language and behavior that is common and acceptable on an oil rig would get you fired quick in those other places.  A reasonable oil rig worker has a different expectations as to the workplace environment than does a reasonable bank employee.

    The more stuff that comes out, the more it looks like Martin just decided he didn't want to be there for whatever reason. But you can't be a willing participant in all manner of hyjinx one day and then decide it's unacceptable the next.  Well, you can but you can't get paid because of it...except well, maybe he will because that's the American way. 

     

     




    That is well put. You cannot out a sports teams locker room under the "workplace" umbrella. No you cannot say most things that are said in a locker room at a usual place of business that are said in a locker room. Just like you can't drop the gloves and go at it with somone else in your field either.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Did anyone watch the Jay Glazer interview with Richie Incognito?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:



    There is context involved in analyzing any workplace environment. In a vacuum you're right, the stuff that went on in that locker room would be out of bounds in the average workplace.

    But a professional sports team locker room, or an oil rig or a boxing gym, while all workplaces are not the same as a bank or a department store or a hospital. Some of the language and behavior that is common and acceptable on an oil rig would get you fired quick in those other places.  A reasonable oil rig worker has a different expectations as to the workplace environment than does a reasonable bank employee.

    The more stuff that comes out, the more it looks like Martin just decided he didn't want to be there for whatever reason. But you can't be a willing participant in all manner of hyjinx one day and then decide it's unacceptable the next.  Well, you can but you can't get paid because of it...except well, maybe he will because that's the American way. 

     

     




    That is well put. You cannot out a sports teams locker room under the "workplace" umbrella. No you cannot say most things that are said in a locker room at a usual place of business that are said in a locker room. Just like you can't drop the gloves and go at it with somone else in your field either.




    Good posts by both of you.

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