Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188. Show Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188's posts

    Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    I figured that he went to his spread offense because he saw teams like the Colts and saw the pass interference, illegal contact, and defensive holding penalties.  One thing that was overlooked (or that simply didn't present itself as an opportunity) was the running back tandems.  Another thing that he always tried to find was an uber-versatile tight end (Watson was too much of a receiver; Graham was too much of a traditional tight end; the league was moving to Dallas Clark/Antonio Gates type tight ends)

    On defense, Belichick stuck to his base 3-4 defense perhaps too long, especially as teams spread the field and forced them into subpackages along with the proliferation of West Coast short-pass-as-a-run type offenses.  The two-gap sacrifices the pass rush and premiere three-down versatile DEs are rare (twice in a decade type players, as in Richard Seymour and Ty Warren).  Forced to substitute, the Pats were hurried up or otherwise attacked at the spot vacated by the injured DE while the two-gap prevented pressure, especially once the three-down OLBs aged and retired

    Ergo, Hernandez, Gronk, Ridley, Vereen, and the 4-man d-line subpackages with athletic DEs who are just enough of a threat to drop back in coverage

    Just a random thought
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    Nick you're question BB, that's you're first mistake....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptFoxboro. Show CaptFoxboro's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    Interesting take .
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CommChairman. Show CommChairman's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    In Response to Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?:
    [QUOTE]I figured that he went to his spread offense because he saw teams like the Colts and saw the pass interference, illegal contact, and defensive holding penalties.  One thing that was overlooked (or that simply didn't present itself as an opportunity) was the running back tandems.  Another thing that he always tried to find was an uber-versatile tight end (Watson was too much of a receiver; Graham was too much of a traditional tight end; the league was moving to Dallas Clark/Antonio Gates type tight ends) On defense, Belichick stuck to his base 3-4 defense perhaps too long, especially as teams spread the field and forced them into subpackages along with the proliferation of West Coast short-pass-as-a-run type offenses.  The two-gap sacrifices the pass rush and premiere three-down versatile DEs are rare (twice in a decade type players, as in Richard Seymour and Ty Warren).  Forced to substitute, the Pats were hurried up or otherwise attacked at the spot vacated by the injured DE while the two-gap prevented pressure, especially once the three-down OLBs aged and retired Ergo, Hernandez, Gronk, Ridley, Vereen, and the 4-man d-line subpackages with athletic DEs who are just enough of a threat to drop back in coverage Just a random thought
    Posted by Artist-Frmrly-Knwn-As-NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    I'd like to be the fly on the wall for the discussion with BB...some good stuff.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from patthepatriot666. Show patthepatriot666's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    i wonder if the haynesworth trade precepitated the change
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    Okay Mr. Man, you've done it now. Nobody, but nobody, questions Willy B. without very serious ramifications around these parts. Your kool-aide privileges are hereby revoked for a month!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    It's ok to lay off the kool-aid for a bit.  Just don't start drinking the krap-aid.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    I disagree.

    As far as spread offenses, BB was doing it in 01 with the "dink and dunk" offense and the Pats basically brought the WR screen to the forefront of NFL offenses.

    RB Tandems? Dillon/Maroney was one of the earlier ones in the league.

    As far as the pass rush, BB has long depended on the OLB for that, the past few years was a downswing in effective outside rushers. Cunningham is young, Adalius never worked out, Colvin got hurt, Warren got hurt, Seymour got traded. SOme self inflicted, some just a normal ebb and flow of an NFL franchise.

    What BB HAS been able to do, far better than anyone else over the past decade, is keep his team in competition for the Super Bowl, year in and year out. He even navigated a total rebuild of the defense (also leading to a lack of pass rush) taking one of the oldest, and transforming it into the league's YOUNGEST, and setting up the Pats for another 5+ years of strong competition.

    If the NFL was the internet, BB is Mapquest.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    I'm not sure BB is really behind the league (in some ways he's led the league toward more 3-4), but I do think he's feeling that his defense has become a bit stale and so he's trying to change it up a bit. Part of the problem with changing a defense is you often need to change talent too.  BB built a team around his 3-4, two-gap, zone coverage style and so he can't just "up and change" instantly since to change he needs to replace players and he can only replace so many of them each year. 

    I think the old BB defense was relatively conservative (by conservative, I mean it wasn't an aggressive, attacking defense).  It protected against the run by being very stout at the LOS (big two-gap DLs and run-stopping MLBs) and it prevented the deep play by keeping the DBs back and using safer zone coverages more than man-to-man.  Before the rules changed, it also used a lot of contact on receivers to disrupt timing patterns (but that hasn't been allowed for a while--something which has weakened the Pats' approach).

    The weakness of BB's defense has always been shorter passes underneath the coverage and a lack of ability to pressure the QB without blitzing. The lack of pressure has been especially problematic in the past few years because the rules have made it much harder to disrupt the timing of pass plays by attacking receivers. You are amost forced now to disrupt timing by attacking the QB.  This almost forces you into a more aggressive, penetrating style of defense where your DLs have to try to get upfield more than just hold position.  I think what we're seeing now is an attempt by BB to change his scheme and talent to allow more penetration at the LOS from the DLs.  In the past, most of the attack came from OLBs or blitzing LBs/DBs.  Now I think BB is trying to get more of the upfield force from the DL.  

    At least that's my take . . . would be interesting to hear someone like Zbellino comment. He knows more about D-line play than I do.  



     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nyjoseph. Show nyjoseph's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    As rigid as BB is with the media I believe he is incredibly flexible when it comes to X and O. 

    For example, when Brady just took over for Bledsoe their passing offense was a lot of WR screens (as someone pointed out).  He had a young QB and young WRs and the deep ball was not a regular part of the aresenal.  Bledsoe's mechanics were horrible on the screen;  he showed it too soon, didn't deliver it to the right spot, etc etc.  I was not immediately sold on Brady, but I was bowled over by how precisely he always threw this pass.  BB's motto is "do your job".  He gives them a job to do that they are capable of doing.  It sounds simple and obvious, but it separates him from most of the rest.

    When Moss came in he returned the deep ball to the arsenal.
    They haven't given the same responsibilities they gave to Willie Mac, because they haven't had anyone with those skill sets since Willie Mac.

    The versatility and the skill sets of the personnel dictates his strategy more than anything.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptFoxboro. Show CaptFoxboro's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    BB = Mapquest .....priceless.

      Belichick has proven to opposing coaches that when playing the Pats the one thing they can count is that they can't count on anything .
      When the Pats play an opponent , I take comfort in the knowledge that at some point our gameplan will cause our rivals to scratch their heads .
       BB probably doesn't get enough credit for being an innovator .
      Conversely , it seems to me that many of the Pats losses over the years , especially to inferior teams on paper , came against coaches not afraid to use against-the-grain / unorthodox gameplans ( example - Dolphins initial Wildcat gadgetry ) while the Pats coaching staff apparently were slow to counter or change-up a gameplan that wasn't clicking ( think recent Playoff losses and their apparent lack of on-the-fly adjustments )

     I'm starting to get the feeling this is a season when it's all going to come together ...

    17 -2 and we win our last game .
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    Great choach's evolve they don't react.  What we are seeing has been in the works for years.  You can't change overnight yet still compete for Super Bowls every year.  The man is a genius and 3 steps ahead of everyone when it comes to Football.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    I think he went to the spread offense because he had no running game, the best QB in the NFL and a deep stable of receivers(Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Stallworth).

    I was reading a magazine artcile yesterday predicting that 70% of the plays run by the 2021 season will be pass plays, mostly thanks to the Pats 2007 season leading to copycats. So really, Laurene Maroney is to thank for a huge shift in the offensive philosophy for decades to come. If he could have run the ball halfway well, the Pats wouldn't have had to throw it so much.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    I had dared to suggest that perhaps if the system was so needy as a 3-4 because only a very limited number of potential players could fit that system properly, that maybe the system needed to change to more readily accomodtae the actual talent that was available. I was beset by demons for that endeavor. Yet it seems exactly that kind of modification may be taking place. Suddenly it is embraced and is not questioned because infallibe powers have said it must be so.

    Coach BB takes what he has and does wonders with it. Unfortunately, GM BB has not provided coach BB with the best tools on D in recent years to achieve optimal results.

    Coach BB has not misread anything. He simply has not had the players to win it all. I am hopeful that some of the less handy tools GM BB has provided step up and play better than they have. I am also hopeful that some of the new tools provided are ammenable to putting a strong D on the field and winning the good folks of Patriot Nation another Super Bowl this year; which we so very richly deserve. 


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    I think what changed was the defensive personnel, and the ability to make plays when it mattered (big plays in the playoffs). Did  BB bring in Haynesworth to move to a 4-3, or did he bring in an available  playmaker and sculpt the schemes to his abilities? Probably some of both, since this defense on paper looks like its going to emulate the highly effective Jets defense; but at the end of the day, players make the difference, and the D now looks well stocked between playmakers, good JAGs, youth and veterans.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    I think he is an innovator and actually has in a sense dictated how the rules and defenses are played. Has he missed on some players? Yes. Has he been stubborn at times? Of course, all the great ones are. I truly believe we drafted all these quick, yet undersized corners over the last 5 years because of the bump rule...he wanted players that could run with these receivers, if they weren't going to be allowed to be real physical with them. The troubles they have had the last couple of years on defense is that they haven't had the players. Did they do enough to keep/add to that defense? I think the proof is that they didn't and now they are. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Did Belichick misread the direction of the league?

    Did you see how BB out maneuvered everybody after the lockout?  

    BB was running Brady out of shotgun with no back when he was a rookie.  

    We ran a 3/4 for the first quarter of the first preseason game, then ran a vanilla 2/4/5 for the rest of the game.  We still run an outdated 3/4.

    Nothing has changed, Bill is still miles ahead of everybody.  

    Wait, was this supposed to be a sarcastic thread?
     
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