Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    Where would this team be if we went to the 4-3 years ago?  Could we have won multiple SBs?

    Had we made the switch, we would'ce been able to evaluate and draft those players more effectively?  Look at the DL and LB talent that we drafted in the past few years.  (I kept it to the first 5 rounds)

    2011 none
    2010 Cunningham (2nd)
    2010 Spikes (2nd)
    2009 Brace (2nd)
    2009 McKenzie (3rd)
    2008 Mayo (1st)
    2008 Crable (3rd)
    2007 Kareem Brown? (4th)
    2006 none
    2005 Ryan Claridge? (5th)

    This is why our defense looks terrible.  Had we gone to the 4-3, maybe we would've drafted someone, anyone who can play defense.  Besides Mayo (who was a top 10 pick) this was BB worst position to evaluate and draft players.  Maybe that is why he avoids that area. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    Are you trying to say this year's defense is better than years past?


    errrr excuse me but............... LOLWTF ROFLCOPTER LMAO
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    No, I'm pretty much saying that it's stayed the same over the past few years where QBs can sit back and pick us apart.

     and what is LOLWTHROFCOPTERLMAO?  You must be some sort of genius.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?


    He has a point. We didn't seem to make much headway in the past 5 years replacing those 3-4 pro-bowl players we lost with anyone really talented outside of Mayo and maybe Spikes.

    IF we had made the switch 3 or 4 years ago, we may have approached FA and the draft differently, and acquired more 4-3 talent. That's pretty much a no brainer.

    The question I have is if the Pats will do this in the upcoming draft?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    Either way, we really need to use high draft picks to get those pass rushers.  It seems like BB is looking for a specific size (DE 6'5" 300/ OLB 6'4" 260) more than anything else and the truth is that those players are harder to find than someone who can straight up play ball. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    In Response to Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?:
    [QUOTE]Either way, we really need to use high draft picks to get those pass rushers.  It seems like BB is looking for a specific size (DE 6'5" 300/ OLB 6'4" 260) more than anything else and the truth is that those players are harder to find than someone who can straight up play ball. 
    Posted by PatsFanGermany[/QUOTE]

    This is the key right here. I don't think it's a question on 34 or 43 truthfully but the D players they brought in. Lets face it, the draft is a roll of the dice but it's more so the later you get in the rounds. How many DL and LB's have we drafted since 05' in the 1st round? Only Mayo, that's the problem right there not enough high end talent in the front 7 as our all pro front 7 got older and left the team
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsFanGermany. Show PatsFanGermany's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    In Response to Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls? : This is the key right here. I don't think it's a question on 34 or 43 truthfully but the D players they brought in. Lets face it, the draft is a roll of the dice but it's more so the later you get in the rounds. How many DL and LB's have we drafted since 05' in the 1st round? Only Mayo, that's the problem right there not enough high end talent in the front 7 as our all pro front 7 got older and left the team
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    I guess you're in the fact that we need to draft more front 7 players in the higher rounds. But I always thought the reason why we don't is because we play a 3-4 defense and those players are hard to evaluate.  Plenty of great players have slipped right through our picks for years now.  We really need youth at all those positions.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macrawn. Show Macrawn's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    Given what I've seen of the 4-3 I'd say we would have been 1 round exits. 

    This team has been rebuilding after those golden years. 4/3 - 3/4 doesn't matter. 

    1) A young team doesn't win. They have to learn to win which takes time. 

    2) They always draft late in rounds meaning getting those key impact players is more difficult. Sure maybe we could have landed a couple 4/3 rushers. 

    3) The 3/4 suits the way BB likes to play. It gives more flexibility and options. I still think when all is said and done, the Pats will be back to a 3/4 next year. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    I can see what you are saying but this is assuming we had the right players for the 4-3.  Lately our personell has been pretty bad.

    The only thing that would help is if we were picking up 4-3 DE end types that could help and said players would have been available after the 1st round.

    I think the switch is a few years too late, but I still cant say we would have won.  It seems our offense has been the problem in the playoffs and our lack of common sense, but giving up 17 points to the Giants in 07' was what we averaged and our potent offense mustered 14!!!

    last year we lost on offense to the Jets.. yes we should have stopped sanchize but the whole team was tight for some reason and Brady did Zilch!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    In Response to Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?:
    [QUOTE]He has a point. We didn't seem to make much headway in the past 5 years replacing those 3-4 pro-bowl players we lost with anyone really talented outside of Mayo and maybe Spikes. IF we had made the switch 3 or 4 years ago, we may have approached FA and the draft differently, and acquired more 4-3 talent. That's pretty much a no brainer. The question I have is if the Pats will do this in the upcoming draft?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    Well lets hope so.....in F/A we get old guys and they just resigned Ninkovich who has officially rushed the passer on every passing play on defense in 4 games now and not even come close to a sack and he is our future.....SMDH

    Its frustrating and hard to believe we can build up a whole new 4-3 type defense.  What do you do with the current personell??

    What about Cunningham?  , shouldnt he be invloved as a DE in this 4-3 seeing as he did that in college?

    My argument is if you gonna play like the Colts, than get the pass rushers they have on both ends so when you go up 21-0 and the other team is storming back you can rush the passer and slow down their comeback....thats all
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?

    In Response to Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Did the 3-4 defense cost us a few Superbowls? : Well lets hope so.....in F/A we get old guys and they just resigned Ninkovich who has officially rushed the passer on every passing play on defense in 4 games now and not even come close to a sack and he is our future.....SMDH Its frustrating and hard to believe we can build up a whole new 4-3 type defense.  What do you do with the current personell?? What about Cunningham?  , shouldnt he be invloved as a DE in this 4-3 seeing as he did that in college? My argument is if you gonna play like the Colts, than get the pass rushers they have on both ends so when you go up 21-0 and the other team is storming back you can rush the passer and slow down their comeback....thats all
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    I think we need to make some hard decisions on the current personnel, just like we did about Meri, Sanders and Page.
    I understnad BB likes his 3-4 and the flexibility it gives, but there is more than enough evidence of teams selecting 4-3 talent and doing quite well in the draft as well as on D.
    Okay, for a second, lets throw out the whole scheme discussion.

    What do we need? DE's/OLB's and a safety or two.
    I think what BB has done in years past is look at DE's with the mindset of converting them to OLBs (Cunningham), and 4-3 DT's and making them 3-4 DE's (Brace, Love on occasion, etc.). He's evaluating talent for the most part with hopes of converting them into someting they might not be. Why not take a player at their natural position? There is a ton more 4-3 talent in college to evaluate. If you want to run a hybrid, surely you can draft some 4-3 DE rushing specialists, and maybe a DT/DE type that can do both?...I don't know. I scratch my head to understnad with all of our picks, we haven't got it done.

    I think players have natural positions. What I want on this defense is speed and aggression for our front 7. Run more 4 man lines, and give me studs at DE and OLB who can get after the QB and play fast.
     

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