Did we overpay Arrington?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriots44. Show patriots44's posts

    Did we overpay Arrington?

    Talib is a steal for $5 million. Why did the pats pay Arrington $4 million per year. I think he is worth closer to $2.5 or $3 Million at most. Agree or Not.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    That does seem to be a fair question. Of course one never knows if he will see the entire pay out.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Free agents are almost always overpaid. See Mankins, Logan, among many, many others. Sometimes you pay more to keep guys you know, less risky than bringing in outsiders.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    If you look at it from the standpoint of the Pats not being certain about Talib and other CB's signing and coming off the market it looks like reasonable pay for value.

    However, in a perfect world if the Pats draft a decent young CB or Dowling pans out then yeah it looks like he's overpaid as he'd drop down the depth chart.

    He's an adventure on the outside but looks okay in the slot and in today's NFL a decent nickel CB is valuable. He's solid insurance.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Only 8 mill of it is guaranteed spread out over 4 yrs plus he's a solid special teamer.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    That's because you are NOT soley paying Arrington for his CB duties. He's one of the Patriots best special teams players as well.

    BB places a premium on that and you can see just in this past post season how important special teams was to the winning teams.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Sometimes $16 mil is not really $16 mil because the last year or two don't really count. And you can minimize the cap hit in the first year or two with a longer deal. Talib's deal is favorable, but a one year deal counts 100% against the cap, no way to finagle that.  

    So Talib's cap hit is $5 mil whereas Arrington's might be a lot less than the $4 mil his deal averages. I don't know the particulars beyond 4 years, $16 mil, $8.5 mil guaranteed.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Sometimes $16 mil is not really $16 mil because the last year or two don't really count. And you can minimize the cap hit in the first year or two with a longer deal. Talib's deal is favorable, but a one year deal counts 100% against the cap, no way to finagle that.  

    So Talib's cap hit is $5 mil whereas Arrington's might be a lot less than the $4 mil his deal averages. I don't know the particulars beyond 4 years, $16 mil, $8.5 mil guaranteed.

     




    Exactly. They don't get that. Arrington is not in control of 50% of his deal.  That's what his deal essentially means.

     

    Why are some of our fans not getting these things at this point?  BB isn't dumb.

    i have not seen his deal posted yet, but

    If they cut him after 2 years they will still have to pay him $8.5. That's over $4m per year. If they cut him after 3 years, they will have to pay him around $10.5-$11...anyway you look at it, his AAV will be around $3-4m per year. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Sometimes $16 mil is not really $16 mil because the last year or two don't really count. And you can minimize the cap hit in the first year or two with a longer deal. Talib's deal is favorable, but a one year deal counts 100% against the cap, no way to finagle that.  

    So Talib's cap hit is $5 mil whereas Arrington's might be a lot less than the $4 mil his deal averages. I don't know the particulars beyond 4 years, $16 mil, $8.5 mil guaranteed.

     




    Exactly. They don't get that. Arrington is not in control of 50% of his deal.  That's what his deal essentially means.

     

    Why are some of our fans not getting these things at this point?  BB isn't dumb.



    Most fans tune this stuff out, it's too complicated. That's why agents value those big numbers even if they really don't mean anything because the last year or two is vapor.  Fans, and gullible draft prospects, just see the big number and think the agent must be awesome.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dapats1281. Show dapats1281's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    You dont know the terms yet.

    This isn't baseball, remember Donte Stallworth 6 year 33 million dollar deal? I'm sure there will be clauses that the Pats can use to get out of the deal before the 4 years.

     

    Also,

     slot corners are extremely important, especially now that we will also be playing Welker

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Sometimes $16 mil is not really $16 mil because the last year or two don't really count. And you can minimize the cap hit in the first year or two with a longer deal. Talib's deal is favorable, but a one year deal counts 100% against the cap, no way to finagle that.  

    So Talib's cap hit is $5 mil whereas Arrington's might be a lot less than the $4 mil his deal averages. I don't know the particulars beyond 4 years, $16 mil, $8.5 mil guaranteed.

     




    Exactly. They don't get that. Arrington is not in control of 50% of his deal.  That's what his deal essentially means.

     

    Why are some of our fans not getting these things at this point?  BB isn't dumb.

     

     

    i have not seen his deal posted yet, but

    If they cut him after 2 years they will still have to pay him $8.5. That's over $4m per year. If they cut him after 3 years, they will have to pay him around $10.5-$11...anyway you look at it, his AAV will be around $3-4m per year. 




    Where do you get your info? What if he got...say...4 to sign, salaries of 2, 2, 2, 6? That would mean the first 3 years cost would be 10 total, 3.33 per year. Even less if he's working at a min salary any of those. That 4th year could be an obscene 8 or 9. Until we see a breakdown, none of us know.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Arrington graded out as the second best slot corner next to Ladarius Webb (when he lined up in the slot).  He is also a special teams ace.  While his contract might be a tad higher then i would like, it's not like the Pats handicapped themselves. IF our secondary stays healthy...

     

            Wilson(s)        McCourty

    Dennard      Arrington        Talib

     

    I think Tavon will at least improve a bit with another training camp under his belt, and Adrian is hanging around average coverage skills with his knock out ability.  I mean a 25 ints and 25 sacks guy who is hungry is a good fit for the NE secondary.  I mean look at all the leadership in that secondary.  The continuity that these guys will have.  

    I think we all undervalue Arrington a bit, because if he never played outside, i think we would all love this guy from day 1.  Keep him i the slot.  They need to sign another vet that would be willing to sub an outside CB spot, or whatever it would take to keep Arrington parked inside.   

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKing's comment:

     

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

     

    Sometimes $16 mil is not really $16 mil because the last year or two don't really count. And you can minimize the cap hit in the first year or two with a longer deal. Talib's deal is favorable, but a one year deal counts 100% against the cap, no way to finagle that.  

    So Talib's cap hit is $5 mil whereas Arrington's might be a lot less than the $4 mil his deal averages. I don't know the particulars beyond 4 years, $16 mil, $8.5 mil guaranteed.

     




    Exactly. They don't get that. Arrington is not in control of 50% of his deal.  That's what his deal essentially means.

     

    Why are some of our fans not getting these things at this point?  BB isn't dumb.

     

     

    i have not seen his deal posted yet, but

    If they cut him after 2 years they will still have to pay him $8.5. That's over $4m per year. If they cut him after 3 years, they will have to pay him around $10.5-$11...anyway you look at it, his AAV will be around $3-4m per year. 

     




    Where do you get your info? What if he got...say...4 to sign, salaries of 2, 2, 2, 6? That would mean the first 3 years cost would be 10 total, 3.33 per year. Even less if he's working at a min salary any of those. That 4th year could be an obscene 8 or 9. Until we see a breakdown, none of us know.

     



    Do The math. Even at your numbers, he got a $6m signing bonus. at your numbers if he is cut after 1 year he gets $8 million ($6 plus $2), if he is cut after 2 years he gets $10m ($6 plus $2 plus $2) ...like I said, with out seeing the numbs his AAV is between $3 and $4, closer to $4. 

    The guarantee seems to be $8.5....so the numbers seem to bear this out

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Based on reported guarantee and reported signing bonus this looks like:

    6.5M signing, year 1=1M, year 2=1M = 8.5M guaranteed. Year 3 =3M, year 4 = 4.5M

    Cap hit yr 1 and 2 = about 2.75M/yr.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from braunzy. Show braunzy's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but he did go up against Welker in practice the past few years everyday, that has to count for something.

     

    I think one of the biggest problems in our secondary the past few years has been continuity. At least now they have 4 or 5 guys that have a few years playing with each other, so hopefully the mistakes starts to diminish and they start to become more successful.  I feel that they will be better next year.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    In response to stegall85's comment:

    If you look at it from the standpoint of the Pats not being certain about Talib and other CB's signing and coming off the market it looks like reasonable pay for value.

    However, in a perfect world if the Pats draft a decent young CB or Dowling pans out then yeah it looks like he's overpaid as he'd drop down the depth chart.

    He's an adventure on the outside but looks okay in the slot and in today's NFL a decent nickel CB is valuable. He's solid insurance.

    Perfect evaluation

    Overpaying by 1 million a year for a guy you know, whose best position is nickel/slot and that is where he'll play with Talib and Dennard back, is a solid move. He looked pretty good in '11 and struggled a bit last year (injuries)

    With Talib getting at least 2-3m less than he is worth as a #1 corner, and 5-6m less than he is woth as a top 10 corner in the game (possibly could become this) AND Dennard being paid like a 7th rd pick, you can afford to overpay your 3rd CB.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Arrington is a decent corner, as long as he doesn't have to turn his head, Slot/ Nickel cb's usually play in back of recievers. Almost every PI or TD Arrington was called or burned was by him turning his head too late to adjust to the ball when the reciever was behind him or making contact while turning his head to look as he was going for the ball . He is a solid tackler,good at shedding blocks,at blitzing,staying healthy,reading plays,closing on the ball, play outside corner in a pinch and an excellent ST er,so no I think we didn't over pay at all. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Seems like some of those complaining about overpaying Arrington are the same ones whining when they leave cap money on the table. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    In response to patriots44's comment:

     I think he is worth closer to $2.5 or $3 Million at most. Agree or Not.




    1.5 Million

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    Wait a minute!  The Patriots are paying him to play?  I thought I read where he was paying the Patriots to stay and play!!  Dang, I guess I miss read the tweet when it came out.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

    Re: Did we overpay Arrington?

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    Wait a minute!  The Patriots are paying him to play?  I thought I read where he was paying the Patriots to stay and play!!  Dang, I guess I miss read the tweet when it came out.




    LOL, good one TFB

     
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