Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]I think that there is no way to tell until we see the first regular season game and see how Brady performs, and how the DB's do. I think is is realistic to expect at least a slow start as Brady shakes off his rust. But in the NFL it is about peaking at the right time- and all I would care about is seeing them peaking near the end of the season and carrying that all the way to the Superbowl.
    Posted by patpscyho[/QUOTE]

    The AFC East is monstrously tough, as is much of the rest of the AFC. We cannot afford a slow start or the playoffs will never materialize. Remember, 11-5 was not good enough last year.
     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Chris Baker sux. Most receivers are measured in YAC(yds after catch). Baker is measured in FAC(fumbles after catch). David Thomas is better, and will probably be picked up elsewhere if Pats cut him to keep Smith and Baker.

    Most of our free agent picks were mediocre this year. No Moss. No Welker. No Thomas.

     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]      RESPONSE: Excuse? Who said I'm making excuses for the Pats? Regardless of the distraction, they still should have beaten the Giants. But, theres' no denying that the Specter/Tomase BS on the eve of the SB was a major distraction. Both players and coaches admitted to that...saying that their preparation was thrown off due to having to deal with that trumped up lie. 
    The OL was pathetic. Furthermore, have you ever seen a Pats game in which the coaching staff was so ill prepared and flat? Clearly, the spygate BS was a distraction for them. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Again, I believe the O Line was put into an impossible situation and set up to fail by the game planning of Josh McDaniel’s, furthermore I don't think we've had a solid O coordinator since Charlie Weiss left.  Bill B has always been the D coordinator, we need someone opposite Bill besides a pimply baby faced guy who's going to be labeled Bill's protégé, promoted to head coach of another team the following season only to fail miserably because they weren't that good to begin with, just lucky enough to have Tom Brady and the best offensive arsenal in the league.  That's enough to win regular season games but it won't win it all.

    Bill B wipes his backside with spygate.  The league wanted to enforce rules they already had on the books that nobody was following regarding video spying; everybody was doing it. The way to expose it without the owners admitting to not following their own rules was to penalize the league's flagship team, a team that could afford the PR hit but also had two number one draft picks so it had one to spare. 

    It's comparable to MLB offering up A Rod as the sacrificial goat, full well knowing they condoned or allowed steroid use for years after the labor strike ended and they had to boost sagging sales.

    Bill laughed about it then and now, do you really think it bothered him?  You know what he got from it, a raise from Kraft...


    Josh McDaniels did try to incorporate some screens into the offense. But, so dominant was the Giants' pass-rush, that Brady didn't even have enough time to execute a screen. I recall one play in particular, in which the Pats ran a middle screen for Maroney. Brady had no time to get him the ball. If he had, Maroney had two blockers ahead of him and nothing but green.

     

    We came out throwing and never stopped... that the first sign of underestimating your opponent and playing arrogant.  The Giants are the best 4/3 attacking defense in the league, they rush the passer better than anyone, and yet the PAT's come out and attempt to attack their strengths first..?! That's stupidity.  We attempted only 16 rushes and 48 passing attempts!  We played stupid offense, horrible offensive game planning.  We should have ran, ran and ran some more trying to rest and otherwise hide our weakened defense, throwing puts you back on your heels and a team that attacks well loves that.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, the single largest personnel loss the PAT's have suffered during BB's tenure was not a player but Charlie Weiss.

     



    Lets hope that Donte Scanecchia can work his magic on him. Incidently, if O'Callaghan and Kaczur are so good, why did the Pats reach for Vollmer at #58? 
         Mankins was a low first round pick, and Matt Light was a high second round pick.
    Surely you jest. O'Callaghan has been hurt quite often. He's a slow footed, non-athletic, drive blocker. If hes' as good as you claim, why hasn't he been unable to beat out the very average Nick Kaczur?  

    Kaczur has been an overachiever his whole career.  O'Callaghan played great when he actually started as a rookie while Light and Kaczur were hurt; anyone who says otherwise is the same as someone who believes we need another outside linebacker right about now... never satisfied. 

    Just because a guy sits behind someone on the depth chart it doesn't necessarily mean they are a worse player.  It just means that vet in front has earned the right to start.  Thurman Thomas started ahead of Barry Sanders at Oklahoma, Mike Vrabel was a special team’s ace and back up his entire career in Pittsburgh, I have a feeling Pierre Woods is going to explode this season.  BB wasn't going to pull a healthy Kaczur for Ryan because there's no reason to, Nick was doing the job adequately and you don't submarine your starting player's confidence as well as his value on the open market; that's coaching.

    Vollmer wasn't a reach anymore than Mankins was, according to Mel Kiper is akin to "according to the town idiot," not that you mentioned Mel but if BB drafted Vollmer that high, then it's because he's that good.  And like you said Dante is exactly the guy to teach him and the new wrestler how to play football.  You can't teach massive or athletic and that’s what O'Callaghan and Vollmer are.

     

    "We are deeper and have more people that can pressure the QB then when Willie McGinest was here." Really? Who are these "people"? The Pats do seem to have lots of quantity, but not too much quality. 
         A bit nit-picky, but McGinest was the 4th player selected overall in the 1994 draft (yes, its' that long ago), not the 3rd...and it took several years for Big Willie to develop as a player. The three players taken ahead of him were Dan "Big Daddy" Wilkerson (a bust), Hall of Fame RB Marshall Faulk, and freshman Congressman Heath Shuler (a Matthew Stafford QB clone-who was one of the worst draft busts in NFL history).

    My bad I was off by one pick, it must have been late when I wrote that or I'm getting old..?  Willie was pretty solid early on from what I can remember, his entire career he was never even this demon of a pass rusher during the regular season, but the playoffs were another story...  He only had double digit sacks ONE season with eleven sacks in his second season.  He was dangerous because he was tall as well as fast so he could block out the sun when a QB was trying to throw; for this reason Mike Crable intrigues me. 

    The guys I was referring to were the other guys who rushed the passer well for us while they were here and healthy; Adalius Thomas, a healthy Rosie Colvin, Rodney Harrison was a good pass rusher, Vrabel, etc...  It doesn't always have to be the OLB rushing the passer, pressure can come from anywhere, obviously we weren't that good the last couple seasons because of age and the rebuilding of our D, but we also lost Woods, Crable, Thomas, Rodney and numerous other guys to injury last season; who's to say what they would have done last season if they played..?

     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]Again, I believe the O Line was put into an impossible situation and set up to fail by the game planning of Josh McDaniel’s, furthermore I don't think we've had a solid O coordinator since Charlie Weiss left.  Bill B has always been the D coordinator, we need someone opposite Bill besides a pimply baby faced guy who's going to be labeled Bill's protégé, promoted to head coach of another team the following season only to fail miserably because they weren't that good to begin with, just lucky enough to have Tom Brady and the best offensive arsenal in the league. 

    RESPONSE: I'm sick and tired of seeing Josh McDaniels get blamed because the Pats lost that SB. Nobody was "blaming" Josh while the Pats were steamrolling into that game with an 18-0 record. The 2007 Pats offense broke all kinds of scoring records. Yet only Brady, Welker, Moss, and BB are given credit for that. Doesn't the OC also deserve his fair share of the credit? Doesn't Josh deserve some credit for molding Matt Cassel into a solid NFL QB? Furthermore, that was a great defense that the Pats were facing.
         BB is the head coach...and its' up to him to see to it that the necessary adjustments get made at half-time, when he players are performing poorly.  Heck, why not blame Donte Scarnecchia too? After all, hes' the OL coach. 
         As I stated previously, spygate was a major distraction for BB and his coaches. They spent part of Friday and all of Saturday just prior to the game dealing with these media lies...when they should have been fine-tuning their game plan.
         Why are you giving the Pats OL a pass for such an inept, shameful performance? Coaches can only do so much. The players have to execute. As stated previously, the SB loss was reminiscent of the stinker the OL turned in when they lost to the Nick Saban led Dolphins in Miami, in December of 2006, 21-0. Remember how the OL let Jason Taylor and company run wild, and nearly got Tom Brady killed? This was a similar effort by them. 

    The league wanted to enforce rules they already had on the books that nobody was following regarding video spying; everybody was doing it. The way to expose it without the owners admitting to not following their own rules was to penalize the league's flagship team, a team that could afford the PR hit but also had two number one draft picks so it had one to spare.  It's comparable to MLB offering up A Rod as the sacrificial goat, full well knowing they condoned or allowed steroid use for years after the labor strike ended and they had to boost sagging sales.
     
    RESPONSE: That idiot Goodell was played like a violin by the media...and swayed to do what he did. Like you, I have no qualms with fining BB and the team. But, stripping the Pats of a #1 draft choice was way over the top...and gave the media the ammunition needed to blow this alleged "scandal" far out of proportion.

    Bill laughed about it then and now, do you really think it bothered him?  You know what he got from it, a raise from Kraft...
     
    RESPONSE: The "new" spygate allegations come on the eve of the game!! I've never seen BB coach a worse game than he did in that SB. From the teams' preparations, to his coachimg decisions, to his failure to motivate his players to play their best, to his failure to counteract the Giants' defensive strategy at half-time...it was an awful performance by him. How else do you explain such a horrid performance by perhaps the greatest NFL coach of all-time?  

    We came out throwing and never stopped... that the first sign of underestimating your opponent and playing arrogant.  The Giants are the best 4/3 attacking defense in the league, they rush the passer better than anyone, and yet the PAT's come out and attempt to attack their strengths first..?! That's stupidity. We attempted only 16 rushes and 48 passing attempts! 

    RESPONSE: Oh, come now. The Pats were a "passing team" all year. It was their strength. They had just played the G-men five weeks ago, and put up 38 points on them...almost exclusively through the air. Why go away from what you do best? Give the Giants' defense credit for playing being a great defense...and give Tom Coughlin, Steve Spagnuolo and company credit for devising a great defensive game plan. When the Pats did go to the ground game, that failed, too.

    We should have ran, ran and ran some more trying to rest and otherwise hide our weakened defense, throwing puts you back on your heels and a team that attacks well loves that.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, the single largest personnel loss the PAT's have suffered during BB's tenure was not a player but Charlie Weiss.
     
    RESPONSE: The Giants would have loved it if the Pats scrapped their passing attack, which set all-time NFL records, for their mediocre running game.  As I mentioned previously, when the Pats did try to execute screens, Brady wasn't given enough time by the turnstyle OL to allow the plays to develop. Give the Giants defense some credit...and give the Pats OL some blame for a horrible performance. 

    Kaczur has been an overachiever his whole career.

    RESPONSE: Maybe thats' the problem. I credit the guy for maximizing his talent...but hes' just an average at best RT. An upgrade is needed.

    O'Callaghan played great when he actually started as a rookie while Light and Kaczur were hurt; anyone who says otherwise is the same as someone who believes we need another outside linebacker right about now... never satisfied.  Just because a guy sits behind someone on the depth chart it doesn't necessarily mean they are a worse player.  It just means that vet in front has earned the right to start.

    RESPONSE: Wheres' your evidence that O'Callaghan played great? Has he been able to unseat Kaczur at RT? If he was so great, why did the Pats feel the need to use their 58th overall pick on project Sebastien Vollmer?
         Furthermore, I guess that you can count me in to the group of Pats' fans seeing a need at OLB. Guys like Mike Reiss, and Jim Donaldson of the Providence Journal, also seem to be in that camp. Whats' to feel comfortable about a guy like Shawn Crable, who missed all of last year with an injury...and is a completely unknown commodity? Vince Redd and Pierre Woods have the prerequisite size, but were both undrafted free agents. Not one NFL team thought them worthy of using even a 7th round selection on. Accordingly, expecting either of them to fill the void sounds like a bit of a long shot, doesn't it? TBC was allowed to leave town for greener pastures because the Pats didn't view him as anything more than back-up fodder.   


    Thurman Thomas started ahead of Barry Sanders at Oklahoma, Mike Vrabel was a special team’s ace and back up his entire career in Pittsburgh, I have a feeling Pierre Woods is going to explode this season.  BB wasn't going to pull a healthy Kaczur for Ryan because there's no reason to, Nick was doing the job adequately and you don't submarine your starting player's confidence as well as his value on the open market; that's coaching. Vollmer wasn't a reach anymore than Mankins was, according to Mel Kiper is akin to "according to the town idiot," not that you mentioned Mel but if BB drafted Vollmer that high, then it's because he's that good.  And like you said Dante is exactly the guy to teach him and the new wrestler how to play football.  You can't teach massive or athletic and that’s what O'Callaghan and Vollmer are. 

    RESPONSE: Wozz...I love your optimism, and sincerely hope that you are right. But, I wouldn't lay money on these longshots coming in. Would you?
         Obviously, you have a much higher opinion of Kaczur and O'Callaghan than I.  


    Willie was pretty solid early on from what I can remember, his entire career he was never even this demon of a pass rusher during the regular season, but the playoffs were another story...  He only had double digit sacks ONE season with eleven sacks in his second season.  He was dangerous because he was tall as well as fast so he could block out the sun when a QB was trying to throw; for this reason Mike Crable intrigues me.

    RESPONSE: Agreed...Crable and Redd are "intriguing" prospects. But, the jury is still out on whether they can be anything more than roster fodder.

    Adalius Thomas, a healthy Rosie Colvin, Rodney Harrison was a good pass rusher, Vrabel, etc...  It doesn't always have to be the OLB rushing the passer, pressure can come from anywhere, obviously we weren't that good the last couple seasons because of age and the rebuilding of our D, but we also lost Woods, Crable, Thomas, Rodney and numerous other guys to injury last season; who's to say what they would have done last season if they played..?

    RESPONSE: Again, I love your optimism. Hope your right.

    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

         I really would like to see the Pats add a veteran pass rusher (not the 55 year old Willie McGinest)...but only if one could be had for the right price. Its' not out of the question. In 2003, BB's acquisition of pro-bowl caliber NT Ted Washington was the manuever which pushed the Pats' defensive unit over the top. Maybe he can pull another rabbit out of his hat for 2009. 
     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]     I really would like to see the Pats add a veteran pass rusher (not the 55 year old Willie McGinest)...but only if one could be had for the right price. Its' not out of the question. In 2003, BB's acquisition of pro-bowl caliber NT Ted Washington was the manuever which pushed the Pats' defensive unit over the top. Maybe he can pull another rabbit out of his hat for 2009. 
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Well, if Crable or Redd becomes a solid starter or better than a solid starter, this would not be "[pulling] another rabbit of [a] hat." This would be developing a player and trusting them to do their job once they have a chance to play. In professional sports, you put players out on the field and give them a chance to succeed or fail. If you never give them that chance, your team is the Washington Redskins. If you give them a chance, your team is the New England Patriots. I understand you people are scared about OLB experience. Don't be. If they fail, Redd and Crable, whatever, then the Pats platoon Woods and TBC and we have someone who is very good on early downs and someone very good on passing downs out on the field. If they succeed, Redd or Crable, we have a starting OLB for the next 10 years. This uncertainty is football.
     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?


    [QUOTE]     RESPONSE: I'm sick and tired of seeing Josh McDaniels get blamed because the Pats lost that SB. Nobody was "blaming" Josh while the Pats were steamrolling into that game with an 18-0 record. The 2007 Pats offense broke all kinds of scoring records. Yet only Brady, Welker, Moss, and BB are given credit for that. Doesn't the OC also deserve his fair share of the credit? Doesn't Josh deserve some credit for molding Matt Cassel into a solid NFL QB? Furthermore, that was a great defense that the Pats were facing.

    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Who is blaming Josh McDaniel’s besides me?  I don’t see a big media to do about his role in the Superbowl debacle; in fact he got promoted to head coach of Denver and everybody proclaimed him a wonder kid…  How did that work out for Mangina? 

     

    Yay the PAT’s broke scoring records; the Colts did it the season before, what did that get them? 

     

    As I recall the PAT’s didn’t “steamroll” into the playoffs, in fact they limped in after a furious offensive start to the season.  Toward the end of the season teams were figuring out what we were doing and adjusting… maybe we should have adjusted?  We won’t agree on the spygate vs Josh McDaniels debate so I won’t continue to hammer away at it, but just for reference besides pissing off and making his Pro Bowl QB force a trade to another team how is Josh McDaniel’s doing in Denver?   

     

    RESPONSE: Oh, come now. The Pats were a "passing team" all year. It was their strength. They had just played the G-men five weeks ago, and put up 38 points on them...almost exclusively through the air. Why go away from what you do best? Give the Giants' defense credit for playing being a great defense...and give Tom Coughlin, Steve Spagnuolo and company credit for devising a great defensive game plan. When the Pats did go to the ground game, that failed, too.

    Charlie Weiss would tell you to go after first downs instead of touchdowns.  You’ve heard the term “ball control” before obviously?  We weren’t the same team that we were 5 weeks earlier when we played the G men due to injuries on the defensive side, moreover what ever happened to game planning and adjusting?  Did we just assume we could run the same downfield passing plays we ran earlier in the year against them and they wouldn’t prepare for it?

     

    The PAT’s running game wasn’t mediocre, there’s a difference between not running the ball and not being able to; we averaged nearly 5 yards a carry all season and Maroney and Morris were very good.  If a team like the Giants strength is teeing off on passing teams, then why not run?  We should have come out and smashed them in the mouth, that’s playoff football, big game winning football.

     
    RESPONSE: The Giants would have loved it if the Pats scrapped their passing attack, which set all-time NFL records, for their mediocre running game.  As I mentioned previously, when the Pats did try to execute screens, Brady wasn't given enough time by the turnstyle OL to allow the plays to develop. Give the Giants defense some credit...and give the Pats OL some blame for a horrible performance. 

    The Giants played well, I won’t take anything away from them but no 5 offensive linemen in the league can stop 6-8 rushers when your QB is taking 5 step drops every time and looking all the way downfield.  A draw would have been nice, a short underneath route would work or even a screen and I don’t mean in the fourth quarter when everything has fallen apart. 

     

    There’s two schools of thought; either you pass the ball to set up the run (which we did to start the season) or you run to set up the play action passing which we should have started doing ¾ of the way through the season when teams figured out how to get to Brady and in preparation for the playoffs where yards are harder to come by.  I don’t expect you to buy into this philosophical idea because you seem convinced that a good passing team shouldn’t alter its game plan even when faced with an opponent that excels at rushing the passer..?

     


    RESPONSE: Wheres' your evidence that O'Callaghan played great? Has he been able to unseat Kaczur at RT? If he was so great, why did the Pats feel the need to use their 58th overall pick on project Sebastien Vollmer?
         Furthermore, I guess that you can count me in to the group of Pats' fans seeing a need at OLB. Guys like Mike Reiss, and Jim Donaldson of the Providence Journal, also seem to be in that camp. Whats' to feel comfortable about a guy like Shawn Crable, who missed all of last year with an injury...and is a completely unknown commodity? Vince Redd and Pierre Woods have the prerequisite size, but were both undrafted free agents. Not one NFL team thought them worthy of using even a 7th round selection on. Accordingly, expecting either of them to fill the void sounds like a bit of a long shot, doesn't it? TBC was allowed to leave town for greener pastures because the Pats didn't view him as anything more than back-up fodder.   


    I gave you my evidence that O’Callaghan played great in my previous post, I even showed you game logs… he didn’t give up one sack as a starter and the team rushed for nearly 2000 yards with him playing.  And since you insist I repeat myself, a vet won’t necessarily lose his starting spot to injury, that’s why Nick starts.  The Pat’s needed an upgrade at the tackle positions because we had no depth there, thus the picks of O’Callaghan and Vollmer in back to back drafts.  Players get old fast and contracts end, this is how you replace them.  It amazes me how BB finds players year after year in late rounds, undrafted free agents etc… but people still question whether the players on our bench are good enough to play..?

     

     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]Well, if Crable or Redd becomes a solid starter or better than a solid starter, this would not be "[pulling] another rabbit of [a] hat." This would be developing a player and trusting them to do their job once they have a chance to play. In professional sports, you put players out on the field and give them a chance to succeed or fail. If you never give them that chance, your team is the Washington Redskins. If you give them a chance, your team is the New England Patriots. I understand you people are scared about OLB experience. Don't be. If they fail, Redd and Crable, whatever, then the Pats platoon Woods and TBC and we have someone who is very good on early downs and someone very good on passing downs out on the field. If they succeed, Redd or Crable, we have a starting OLB for the next 10 years. This uncertainty is football.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    Very well put Kyle...
     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

         Kyle stated that "Well, if Crable or Redd becomes a solid starter or better than a solid starter, this would not be "[pulling] another rabbit of [a] hat." This would be developing a player and trusting them to do their job once they have a chance to play. In professional sports, you put players out on the field and give them a chance to succeed or fail. If you never give them that chance, your team is the Washington Redskins. If you give them a chance, your team is the New England Patriots. I understand you people are scared about OLB experience. Don't be. If they fail, Redd and Crable, whatever, then the Pats platoon Woods and TBC and we have someone who is very good on early downs and someone very good on passing downs out on the field. If they succeed, Redd or Crable, we have a starting OLB for the next 10 years. This uncertainty is football."

         My response:

         This is true for the Washington Redskins. But, not so true for a team that failed to win a SB from 2006-present because their defense couldn't stop the better teams in the clutch. A major reason for this is that opposing QBs had all day to throw against the Pats' defense.

         While I understand and, in fact, agree with your statements about giving young players a chance...odds are low that the 2009 Pats defense will be appreciably better at getting off the field against the better teams than their immediate predecessors.
     
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    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]Who is blaming Josh McDaniel’s besides me?   I don’t see a big media to do about his role in the Superbowl debacle; in fact he got promoted to head coach of Denver and everybody proclaimed him a wonder kid…   How did that work out for Mangina?     Yay the PAT’s broke scoring records; the Colts did it the season before, what did that get them?     As I recall the PAT’s didn’t “steamroll” into the playoffs, in fact they limped in after a furious offensive start to the season.   Toward the end of the season teams were figuring out what we were doing and adjusting… maybe we should have adjusted?  

    RESPONSE: A great many Pats fans blamed McDaniels for that loss in this forum. immediately after the SB loss. The media didn't blame him...they were too busy high-fiving themselves for contributing to the destruction of the Pats' perfect season.   

    We won’t agree on the spygate vs Josh McDaniels debate so I won’t continue to hammer away at it, but just for reference besides pissing off and making his Pro Bowl QB force a trade to another team how is Josh McDaniel’s doing in Denver? 

    RESPONSE: McDaniels is making the most out of a bad situation. The mistake the Broncos made was in not moving quick enough to land Matt Cassel. Like other teams, they were hoping to low-ball the Pats, and their strategy backfired.
         As for the Cutler thing, the Broncos were absolutely right to unload that overrated primadonna. Getting the Bears to part with two #1 draft picks and a servicable QB in Kyle Orton, for that manchild, was a coup. The only questions I have is why did the Broncos trade their 2010 #1 pick for CB Alphonso Smith...and how much power does McDaniels have in making personnel decisions?  

        Charlie Weiss would tell you to go after first downs instead of touchdowns.   You’ve heard the term “ball control” before obviously?   We weren’t the same team that we were 5 weeks earlier when we played the G men due to injuries on the defensive side, moreover what ever happened to game planning and adjusting?   Did we just assume we could run the same downfield passing plays we ran earlier in the year against them and they wouldn’t prepare for it? 

    RESPONSE: Spare me the revisionist history. Did you watch that game? The Giants pass-rush was so ferocious that it didn't appear that Brady had any OL at all. He was pressured and knocked down even on screens and short passes. The Giants defense were "giving" the Pats the the long pass...often relying on single coverage on the WRs, in order to bring the heat...and limit the yards after catch on the underneath stuff.
         Again, I agree that the game plan and adjustments could have been better. But, instead of blaming it all on the OC, I blame it on BB...who was out of sorts as a result of the Specter spygate distraction. Remember, the NY media wasn't out merely to get BB suspended...they were angling to get him brought before Congress, in hopes that a perjury case could be mounted against him...with the goal of having him kicked out of the league. Thats' pretty heavy stuff...even for BB.  
         

      The PAT’s running game wasn’t mediocre, there’s a difference between not running the ball and not being able to; we averaged nearly 5 yards a carry all season and Maroney and Morris were very good.   If a team like the Giants strength is teeing off on passing teams, then why not run?   We should have come out and smashed them in the mouth, that’s playoff football, big game winning football.  

    RESPONSE: Again, spare me the revisionist history. Morris was unavailable due to injury. The Pats were able to run against San Diego, and some of the lesser regular season opponents they faced. But, the Giants had the NFL's best defense by the end of the season. The Pats couldn't run against them in either game.
         Yeah...go ahead and spout the stat about just 16 running plays. The Pats gained a measly 45 yards on those plays...that averages out to less than 3 yards per play. Laurence Maroney was stone-walled every time a running play was called, as the OL could not get a push on the Giants front 7.

    The Giants played well, I won’t take anything away from them but no 5 offensive linemen in the league can stop 6-8 rushers when your QB is taking 5 step drops every time and looking all the way downfield.   A draw would have been nice, a short underneath route would work or even a screen and I don’t mean in the fourth quarter when everything has fallen apart. 
     
    RESPONSE: Sorry...you're not giving them credit. Instead, you base your argument that McDaniels was to blame...and if only the Pats had ran the ball, the outcome would have been different. Neither of these points are true. The bottom line is that the Giants front 7 manhandled the Pats OL, to the point where just about no play could work. Its a tribute to the greatness of Tom Brady that he was able to lead the Pats offense to a go-ahead score late in the game...despite the beating he took, and the constant pressure that he was under.   

    I don’t expect you to buy into this philosophical idea because you seem convinced that a good passing team shouldn’t alter its game plan even when faced with an opponent that excels at rushing the passer..? 

    RESPONSE: I reject your premise. The total domination by the Giants front 7 over the Patriots' OL nearly made it impossible for any play to work. A RB needs a hole...a QB needs a couple of seconds, The OL provided neither throughout that game. 

    I gave you my evidence that O’Callaghan played great in my previous post, I even showed you game logs… he didn’t give up one sack as a starter and the team rushed for nearly 2000 yards with him playing.  

    RESPONSE: Wrong again. You gave me a list of a few games that he started, and the fact that he didn't give up a sack in those games. Does that prove that hes' a good player...or merely a decent back-up? Ditto on the running attack. If O"callaghan is so good, why can't he beat out Kaczur?

    ...a vet won’t necessarily lose his starting spot to injury, that’s why Nick starts.   The Pat’s needed an upgrade at the tackle positions because we had no depth there, thus the picks of O’Callaghan and Vollmer in back to back drafts. 

    RESPONSE: An upgrade means replacing the incumbent starter with a better player. Having depth means having another play who can competently fill in for the starter in case of injury...or a project who is kept on while he hopefully improves. Don't you think that if BB thought O'Callaghan were the better player, that he would be starting in place of Kaczur?  

    It amazes me how BB finds players year after year in late rounds, undrafted free agents etc… but people still question whether the players on our bench are good enough to play..?  

    RESPONSE: Who are "the players" that BB has found in the late rounds (which I take to mean 5th-7th round picks) from 2006-2008? O"Callaghan was the 3rd player selecting in the 5th round in 2006. Other than that, only Le Kevin Smith, a late 6th rounder, is still around. Perhaps you're thinking about the undrafted free agents that BB has been so successful in finding?     

    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

         Wozz: No hard feelings, but we just don't see eye to eye on these things. But, again, I love your optimism, and sincerely hope that you are right.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]     Wozz: No hard feelings, but we just don't see eye to eye on these things. But, again, I love your optimism, and sincerely hope that you are right.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    We'll have to agree to disagree, only time will tell if I'm right about O'Callaghan and Pierre Woods... if they end up becoming pro bowlers or leading the team in sacks I'll expect some sort of mea culpa on your part... lol  Moreover if McDaniels is out after a couple dismal seasons we'll also have to assume I was correct about his being highly overrated.

    For now we'll have to go with your idea that the record breaking offense of 2007 with it's numerous pro bowlers along the offensive line suddenly fell apart in the biggest game, after bowling over SanDiego running the ball in the AFC championship game and they couldn't run the ball even though on the first drive Maroney had two rushes for 15 yards and scored a touchdown.  For whatever reason they went away from running the ball and the rest was history... revisionist history on my part I guess..?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: Do Patriots Deserve to Be Favored to Win SB?

    [QUOTE]We'll have to agree to disagree...For now we'll have to go with your idea that the record breaking offense of 2007 with it's numerous pro bowlers along the offensive line suddenly fell apart in the biggest game, after bowling over SanDiego running the ball in the AFC championship game and they couldn't run the ball even though on the first drive Maroney had two rushes for 15 yards and scored a touchdown.  For whatever reason they went away from running the ball and the rest was history... revisionist history on my part I guess..?
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

         Wozz: First off let me say "thank you" for bringing up the subject of THAT GAME again...and getting me to re-live it. It took me months, several long, long walks, and several drinks to get over it...and now you have me walking, and talking about it again...LOL!!
     
         Heres' the play by play recap of THAT GAME. If you would direct your attention to the second quarter, in the series after the Pats scored their first TD, they did try to run the ball...but failed miserably. There were no holes for Maroney to run through: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=280203017&period=0  
     
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