Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from PedroiaThaDestroyah. Show PedroiaThaDestroyah's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    No defense and an over the hill QB-As a Jets fan this will be a great year! Especially in here when you will hear-FIRE BB! LOL and you know that I am!
    Posted by LeonLike

    what we should do is have another repeat of When BB was the Coach of the Jets? How long did that last? Even Ashton Kutcher thought that could of been a great idea to punk Jets fans. 

    And to be honest, if the secondary doesn't improve they don't have a superbowl D
    (much to your mom's Dissapointment)
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    Listen I get it, In Bill we trust but I am still upset about trading Seymore. I still consider Seymore one of the best D linemen in the game and we let him go and I just hate this move. I know why we did it but i dont like it. Now Rodney Harrison has retired, Tedy Bruschi has retired, Mike Vrabel was traded and now Seymore has been traded. Who is going to be the leader on this D? We no longer have leadership on this defense, we no longer have the guys who won 3 championships and I just really think losing Seymore hurts us. We have no more identity on this defense. Our run defense wont be as good with out Seymore, our LBs are not as good with out Vrabes and Bru and our pass defense was shaky already. Do we have the defense to win it all? People on here were doubting our D before the Seymore deal due to the D backs and now we lose one of our best linemen and we are a better D? I think not. We are going to have to score 40 or 50 points a game this year. So do we have a championship defense?
    Posted by MVPkilla


    They haven't had a super bowl defense for a while.  Don't expect one this year either. They have no pass rush and their secondary is unproven.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from donspartucus. Show donspartucus's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Responding to PrairieMike:
    " This point has been made over and over again in all of these endlessly repetitive threads, but the most recent championsip-calibre Pats teams lost a Super Bowl and an AFC Championship Game they were leading in the last two minutes because the old, slow, tired defense gassed out in crunch time.

    This may not be a Super Bowl-calibre defense, but my hope is that it will at least have its legs under it for 60 minutes.
    "

    Exellent Post! I couldn't agree more! Everyone is overlooking this fact, that age was catching up to these guys!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Answer you in week 11...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Defense wins championships. That's what I keep hearing.
    But the rules changes keep favoring the offense. Look what Arizona did last year. New England the year before and Indy the year before that. Offensive minded teams with decent defenses can advance.
    Do we have a super bowl defense? Remains to be seen. I say we lost too much this year.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dboss. Show dboss's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    To answer the poster’s question…No

     

    The Patriots do not have a superbowl caliber defense.  But they did not have one last year either.

     

    However until we see them take the field against the competition we really do not know how good or bad the defense will be.  I think they will continue to stop the run simply because they are still strong in the middle.  Teams that cannot run up the middle cannot run against the Pats.

     

    I expect to see more schemes and stunts this year with more blitzing from the LB’s and an occasional safety blitz.  I think the linebacking core will be ok as long as none of the starters are injured for any extended period of time.  Bills’ defense has always relied on stopping the run and then tasking the linebackers to drop back into coverage to strengthen that weak under belly in the zone.  As our linebackers aged their ability to stop the short passing game  diminished.  Thus changes had to be made.

     

    Moving to a 4-3 defense is a significant change in the defensive approach that the Patriots will take.  Thomas, Mayo and Guyton are solid.

     

    The D backs are a question mark if only because they lack experience in the system to execute.  I think we may see a few bumps in the road but I also expect to see these young players get coached up to the point of becoming a cohesive defensive unit during the latter part of the season.

     

    Until they get there, the high powered offense should carry the team.  We will see a lot of high scoring games but there are not too many teams out there that can put more points on the board than the Pats.

     

    I think we will all miss the players that are no longer on the team but the team has to move on and as a fan I am moving on with them.  I do this knowing that they will not win it all every year but adding 9 rookies to the team and stock piling future opportunities tells me that we can expect a competitive team to be on the field for years to come.

     

    As a Patriots fan what more can you ask for?

     

    dboss

     
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    To answer the poster’s question…No   The Patriots do not have a superbowl caliber defense.   But they did not have one last year either.   However until we see them take the field against the competition we really do not know how good or bad the defense will be.   I think they will continue to stop the run simply because they are still strong in the middle.   Teams that cannot run up the middle cannot run against the Pats.   I expect to see more schemes and stunts this year with more blitzing from the LB’s and an occasional safety blitz.   I think the linebacking core will be ok as long as none of the starters are injured for any extended period of time.   Bills’ defense has always relied on stopping the run and then tasking the linebackers to drop back into coverage to strengthen that weak under belly in the zone.   As our linebackers aged their ability to stop the short passing game   diminished.   Thus changes had to be made.   Moving to a 4-3 defense is a significant change in the defensive approach that the Patriots will take.   Thomas, Mayo and Guyton are solid.   The D backs are a question mark if only because they lack experience in the system to execute.   I think we may see a few bumps in the road but I also expect to see these young players get coached up to the point of becoming a cohesive defensive unit during the latter part of the season.   Until they get there, the high powered offense should carry the team.   We will see a lot of high scoring games but there are not too many teams out there that can put more points on the board than the Pats.   I think we will all miss the players that are no longer on the team but the team has to move on and as a fan I am moving on with them.   I do this knowing that they will not win it all every year but adding 9 rookies to the team and stock piling future opportunities tells me that we can expect a competitive team to be on the field for years to come.   As a Patriots fan what more can you ask for?   dboss  
    Posted by dboss


    BRAVO!!!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jhb2. Show jhb2's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Newsflash:  The D didn't lose the Superbowl in 2007; the porous O-Line took the day off and Brady was on his can 15 times and the Giant's tore the wheels of our offensive juggernaut 17-14!!  As far as the final couple of minutes on D Asante Samuel let an interception go through his hands, as did Brandon Meriweather, and David Tyree made the one-handed top-of-the-helmet SB catch of all SB catches (no fault of Rodney's by the way), while Eli had Pat's defenders draped all over him!  The Patriot's offense lost the game (i.e., Josh McD and Brady for not making adjustments, e.g., no dink-and-dunking to ease the Giants' pass rush); the D held the Giants to only 17 points, which should have been far more than enough to hoist the Lombardi.  
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Seymour has been a no show for the last few years.

    At this point in his career, the name is bigger than the player.

    He will be missed. 

    But whether this is a SB defense will largely depend on the defensive backs.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronf. Show ronf's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    I don't think they have a dominating defense. I didn't think they had one when they played the Giants in the Superbowl. That said, the Pats will build around a good D line (Parcels & Belichick believe you start with the line), Mayo and the secondary gels, perhaps they will be competitive this year. One young cornerback will have to emerge (my money is on Whilhite), Meriweather has to become the 1st round stud (Miami Hurricanes) that Belichick hoped for and Chung will have to bump James Sanders fro the starting lineup. IMO Sanders does not strick fear in WRs ala Rodney. Superbowl defenses have a hitter at safety! Right now the Pats don't! Heck, after what Belichick accomplished in 2001 with free agents and grabbing  guys off the waiver wire, who says he can't do it again?  One thing for sure, the Pats defense was getting older and slower. It's always hard to say goodbye to guys like Vrabel, Bruschi and Seymour.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from xxcodyfxx. Show xxcodyfxx's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Yes we do, it wont matter anyways with our offense but everything is fine execpt a few nitches in out secondary which wont be that big of a problem.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Don't forget that our defense collapsed at the end of the game in each of our Super Bowls this decade.  We let the Rams tie the game with a minute left after being up the whole game and our arguably best ever 2003 defense was a total nightmare in the second half against Delhomme.  We won those games because of last minute drives by Brady.  Only our 2004 D can claim a successful finish to a Super Bowl thanks to Rodney's pick, but even that D let McNabb march down the field in the final minutes to get within 3.

    So don't get all misty eyed over the D we had in the first half of the decade or act like the 2006 and 2007 failures were an aberration.  Even the Steelers' vaunted D failed at the end of last year's Super Bowl, and it took their passing offense of all things to win it. 

    My point is that it's unrealistic to expect any D in the NFL today to shut down a Super Bowl team for 60 minutes.  Sooner or later our D will give up points (even gasp ... 17!), and it will probably just come down to which offense has the ball with 2 minutes to go. 
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmmyslinski. Show jmmyslinski's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    Listen I get it, In Bill we trust but I am still upset about trading Seymore. I still consider Seymore one of the best D linemen in the game and we let him go and I just hate this move. I know why we did it but i dont like it. Now Rodney Harrison has retired, Tedy Bruschi has retired, Mike Vrabel was traded and now Seymore has been traded. Who is going to be the leader on this D? We no longer have leadership on this defense, we no longer have the guys who won 3 championships and I just really think losing Seymore hurts us. We have no more identity on this defense. Our run defense wont be as good with out Seymore, our LBs are not as good with out Vrabes and Bru and our pass defense was shaky already. Do we have the defense to win it all? People on here were doubting our D before the Seymore deal due to the D backs and now we lose one of our best linemen and we are a better D? I think not. We are going to have to score 40 or 50 points a game this year. So do we have a championship defense?
    Posted by MVPkilla


    Many Patriot fans are flippin out over the losses of Vrabel, Bruschi, Harrison and Seymour.  It is true that the defense loses the identity these players provided the past decade.  Those are HOF names, and they are not easily replaced.

    However,  this defense will have a luxury not available to a lot of teams.  The Patriot's offense will keep other offenses off the field.  It will miserably wear defenses into the ground.  There is a reason why they will carry 5 quality RB's this year.  Brady's numbers will suffer a bit, but the Patriots will keep control of every game they play.

    Don't underestimate the defensive players still on this roster.  There are several potential All-Pros in the mix.  Expect big things from Mayo, Thomas, and Burgess, with opportunity.  The defensive line will be just as dominant as ever.  A healthy Wilfork goes a long way.  The secondary is a much improved core of veterans if Springs can get healthy.  Meriweather will be a stud by the end of the year. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from IowaPatsfan. Show IowaPatsfan's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    I don't feel that this is our year--the media thinks the Pats will dominate ---but they don't know the team as well as the fans do.  The 2009 team looks like a 15-1 team on paper, but mentally for me as a Pats fan, I just don't have that "it" feeling this year---dare I say it-- I'm feeling this is a 10-6 team. Even with Seymour on this team, it's not a super bowl bound bunch.  I agree there has been too much transition with coaching personnel, front office, and defensive leadership.  I agree with the decision to get younger and produce results on the field defensively, but to expect a Super Bowl this year is simply asking for too much.  We aren't rebuilding, we are transitioning, and patience is key.  2010 might be that year, although Brady and Moss might be a bit older.  Another question that I have about these rookies is, what is their mindset towards winning?  They could be a bunch of 20 somethings just trying to make a football team and make impressions and build relationships with teammates---winning Super Bowls isn't in their vocabulary yet. We took for granted Bruschi and Harrison's will to win championships--not many players have that desire to win, who knows if these rookies will showcase that.  As for performance, the defense is a project.  As fans we need to realize this.  Don't be surprised if Buffalo puts up 35 on us and we score 38 and win on a field goal in the last 30 seconds of the game.

    Who will be the most important defensive player this year?  It's simple.  It's Tom Brady.  His job will be to keep offenses off the field by managing the game.   How will the Pats do this if their running game is the giant jigsaw puzzle that it appears to be? I  I don't know it's making my head spin. 

    The loss of Seymour will be felt in the run defense.   I don't think the unit will suffer greatly because they have a good run stopping unit as a whole.   The Pats usually lose to teams that pass on them, like the Colts.  Running teams don't worry me too much, it's the passing game and the huge 3rd and 10 plays that have killed this defense.  The Pats need to put pressure on the QB and get off the field on 3rd down--if they can do that, they can win this division--and who knows from there. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    Newsflash:  The D didn't lose the Superbowl in 2007; the porous O-Line took the day off and Brady was on his can 15 times and the Giant's tore the wheels of our offensive juggernaut 17-14!!  As far as the final couple of minutes on D Asante Samuel let an interception go through his hands, as did Brandon Meriweather, and David Tyree made the one-handed top-of-the-helmet SB catch of all SB catches (no fault of Rodney's by the way), while Eli had Pat's defenders draped all over him!  The Patriot's offense lost the game (i.e., Josh McD and Brady for not making adjustments, e.g., no dink-and-dunking to ease the Giants' pass rush); the D held the Giants to only 17 points, which should have been far more than enough to hoist the Lombardi.  
    Posted by jhb2
    news flash,if the defense had stopped the giants final drive,we would have another trophy here.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dboss. Show dboss's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    Newsflash:  The D didn't lose the Superbowl in 2007; the porous O-Line took the day off and Brady was on his can 15 times and the Giant's tore the wheels of our offensive juggernaut 17-14!!  As far as the final couple of minutes on D Asante Samuel let an interception go through his hands, as did Brandon Meriweather, and David Tyree made the one-handed top-of-the-helmet SB catch of all SB catches (no fault of Rodney's by the way), while Eli had Pat's defenders draped all over him!  The Patriot's offense lost the game (i.e., Josh McD and Brady for not making adjustments, e.g., no dink-and-dunking to ease the Giants' pass rush); the D held the Giants to only 17 points, which should have been far more than enough to hoist the Lombardi.  
    Posted by jhb2

    \
    New Flash

    I do not like to engage in revisitonist hisory but as i recall, the offense had the lead and the defense gave up  a long drive at the end.  We could not stop the passing game.  As far as the so-called porous OL.. it  did not take the day off.  They were flat out beaten by a better defensive line.

    I do agree that The lack of adjutments on offense for most of the game hurt their scoring opportunities.  There was a certain arrogance at work as Josh and Brady refused to take what the defense gave them (an opportunity for a short passing game) In the end, they moved to that short attack and came back to take the lead.  unfortunately the defense could not come up with that one big play to seal the victory.

    dboss
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    I just dont see that Patriot magic we used to have on defense with this new D and that worries me. I dont feel like I can count on this D in the clutch.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    I just dont see that Patriot magic we used to have on defense with this new D and that worries me. I dont feel like I can count on this D in the clutch.
    Posted by MVPkilla
    lets just hope the offense is as good as 2007,and can carry the team.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from One-If-By-Sea. Show One-If-By-Sea's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    In Response to Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?:
    In Response to Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense? : lets just hope the offense is as good as 2007,and can carry the team.
    Posted by mosseffect43


    A great defense needs a shutdown corner. Then you can play one safety over the top on the opposite side and the 2nd safety blitzes, or helps over the middle with the slot or the TE. If both safeties are helping over the top that leaves a lot of room in the middle with no threat of a blitz. I am not sure if we can lean on Bodden or Springs as a shutdown corner. Before we had Law and Samuel - who do we have now? I think Bodden is the only hope for this year. Maybe Wilhite or Butler down the road, but this year, the only hope is Bodden. Without a shutdown corner the defense has a lot less flexibility and gets exposed no matter what scheme you try to run.

    Remember the Jets last year 3rd and 10 or so. The tight end ran 10 yards turned around and got the 1st down. Merriweather arrived late because he was helping over the top. Have to have a shutdown corner or Brady and crew has to carry the team. Very very rarely does an offense win a Super Bow (remember the greatest Show on Turf?).
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    I dont think you need a shut down corner. We won a super bowl against T.O and McNabb with Randel Gay and Eartjwind Mooreland as our two starting CBs. What we need is that swagger, that magic that we used to have. And we cant have that with a bunch of new faces who just got here. IMO anyways. I hope the team starts to gel mid season and turns the swagger on cause right now I dont think we have a complete super bowl team.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from newenglanderinexile. Show newenglanderinexile's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    How does anyone know what the Patriots have until they have played some real count-in-the-standings games?  Maybe we should wait until at least the middle of the season before making pronouncements about the defense.  Maybe even that is too soon.  What they need to be doing is playing their best defense in December and beyond.  They have three months to figure out how to do this, three months in which some promising rookies may learn how to play well.  Remember that the 2007 Giants were pretty mediocre in the first part of the season, and they ended up getting serious contributions from something like eight first-year players.  I'm not saying the Patriots are going to duplicate what the Giants did, but it's way too early to say for sure what is going to happen.  I believe that BB has an excellent record of making his team better as the year goes on.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriotz. Show themightypatriotz's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    "Remember the Jets last year 3rd and 10 or so. The tight end ran 10 yards turned around and got the 1st down. Merriweather arrived late because he was helping over the top."

    This is the most incorrectly described play on this board.  It was 3rd and 15.  The guy caught the ball about 4 yard short of the first down.  Merriweather hit him almost immediately but couldn't bring him down short of the first down.  The play had nothing to do with Merriweather being busy over the top.  Merriweather was in perfect position to stop the first down and he simply couldn't get the job done.  That's why he isn't "very good" yet.  Youtube it.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Re: Do the Pats have a super bowl defense?

    Brandon Merriwhether is better then you might think. IMO he will have a break out season and shut all the naysayers up. Last year was his 2nd year in the NFL and he had over 80 tackles, 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 4 INTs thats pretty damn good for a 2nd year player in a Bill belichick defense.
     
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