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Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    There's a point there.  But all the guys mentioned from the past are too old to play. We're still rebuilding.  Some of the young guys on this team will be very good two or three years down the road.  And there are also some holes that still need to be filled with additional players.  But we have a lot of draft picks . . . . so look for this team to get better.  And remember, we were 14-2 this year, so getting better means getting very, very good.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveNorthShore. Show DaveNorthShore's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Don't fully agree.

    I agree that the Pats need more talent, especially on D

    But the talent on this team was good enough to go 14-2 with one of the toughest league schedules (i.e. not KC's schedule).  In the process this talent won decisively over Pitt (at Pitt), NYJ, Chicago (at Chicago), and beat Indy and GB. 

    This talent was good enough to be NYJ by 7-10 pts on Sun.  Poor preparation (the lack of fire, the dropped passes, the mistakes) and game planning (the fake punt, the drive to nowhere) lost this game
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Talent and execution are different. I do not feel this team had as much talent as many other teams, but they executed flawlessly, a game plan each week by the best coach in football.
    Sunday, they did not execute, and in addition made numerous mistakes including fumbles, int's and missed tackles. They also did not cause any turnovers.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rerun85. Show Rerun85's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Rkarp has it right. This game was a matter of decision making and execution by the players. One f--k up after another. This coaching staff was stellar this year with all the young talent they needed to bring along.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Brad34. Show Brad34's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Bruschi and Harrison and Willie Mac were all young and experienced once just like a lot of the players the Pats have now. They all improved and became great players it remains to be seen if the current guys can be anywhere near those guys especially their toughness and intelligence at being able to maste BB's defensive schemes. They went 14-2 in a rebuilding year. The Jets have bought everybody under the sun to get that team and I don't see them getting past Pitt. Pats will contend again next year and hopefully add some mixing pieces to the D.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from j24m1. Show j24m1's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    There is a point made that has some substance, but like Brad34 said, all the guys he mentioned on the SB teams, they had to grow up. Remember, those players were on losing teams as well. McCourty will be as good as Law. Chung could be very close to Harrison. Mayo is better then Bruschi (although not clutch yet like Bruschi had an instinct for ). Sorry Bruschi, love you brotha, but Mayo has more talent. As far as the other 3 LBs, heck yes there not as talented. Rob N is an over achiever, slow as molasses..  Arrington is actually pretty good. 

    For yesterday, Brady was not Brady, don't know why. Defense did well, the killer was that 50 yard slant to cotchery. Cant have a defensive breakdown like that in a game your losing. Botttom line. Many things could have changed the outcome, it didn't happen. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    I agree with rkarp on the matter of execution vs, talent. The PATS have talent.  A team does not go 14 -2 without that component.  However, do we not have to give credit where credit is due, if you are really analyzing the situation honestly?  The JETS, (YETS no longer), also have a talented squad.  They beat us twice this year and once we beat the hell out of them.  On a different day we WILL beat them again, count on it.  However, they came to play on Sunday and our team did not.  I credit the JETS secondary.  It was obvious that only the last option on any pass play was open.  The JETS coverage was sensational and that won the game for them.  You can talk fake put error, criticize the defense but this was an offensive failure IMO, we went away from the run and Brady could not find anybody open.  The game was lost this way.  It was very much like the second game of the season against the JETS. I thought the idea here was for the PATS to get up early shut down the JETS running game and force them to beat us with Mark Sanchez passing. Well obviously that didn't happen and it was due more to the JETS play than anything else. Oh, and Mark Sanchez? Well, he had a primary hand in beating us, he played pretty well. Sorry fellow PATS fans those are the facts.



    However, our team is young and the PATS own the next draft, so I expect the PATS to be competitive for years to come. Can we really ask for more? After all it is only entertainment. 


    Lastly, Ron Borges is a nasty, vindictive TOOL.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    If by talent Borges means "young talent", then I'd agree somewhat.  Having such roster turnover was one of the reasons why I had this team pegged for 10 wins.  You never know how young talent will perform, and I'm amazed it took this long to be an issue. 

    I think this team needs an infusion of more young talent, and they are set up to get it with their draft picks.  But more than anything, lack of execution at times hurt the Pats in the Jets game, and young guys had something to do with it.  How many times did Brady audible at the LOS the other night only to have a receiver run a wrong route or not ready for the throw?  You know it wasn't Brady making the mistake.  On defense, that group of guys needs to gel, and it will happen, but that defense needs a few more pieces, and let's hope this offseason is about supplementing the existing roster, which has a good core.     

      
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    in fairness, and by no means is this a shot at BB, but many of the key defensive guys in the early days were drafted by parcells and BB inherited them. not all of them, but many. sure he drafted seymour, signed vrable & harrison, etc...but parcells drafted mcginest, bruschi, law, milloy and many other defensive players that played crucial roles in the 2001 super bowl then went on to be the core of the defense after that (milloy excluded).

    BB still did most of the developing these players and took them to a level parcells didnt, so again it's not a slight on BB.

    IMO BB is the best in the game at coaching guys up and getting the most out of them, he does a fabulous job developing these guys i think that goes without saying. what i would love to see once, just once, is to really cash in on draft day and take a shot at some top shelf college talent for a change instead of the usual trading back for value. BB has does an unbelievable job turning late rounders and practice squad guys into viable nfl players...i would love to see what he could do when developing a few guys among the yop 100 or so college players. Be nice to have a draft that yeilds a few stars and not just projects that turn into solid role players.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from threejak. Show threejak's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Ah the good 'ole days....Give it a rest....
    We play with what we have TODAY not yesterday or seven years ago.
    Oh and he forgot one of my favorites, Andre Tippett too....

    A good young club with a mix of stalwart veterans, some promising youngish  players coupled with  enviable draft positions to move FORWARD in the coming season.

    And exactly how many teams in the NFL can claim this?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Borges is an idiot, when they were winning in the regular season "the hoodie" was still a genius and our young talent was great.  Now that they lost he is grasping for a reason to hold on to and push to the masses...

    I'd take any and all of our units over the Jets (although their WR corps is probably better) we didn't lose because we weren't talented enough.  We lost because of poor offensive play calling, you come strong or not at all, we brought our "finesse" game to a dogfight.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Yep, it has to do with experience.  The youth of this football team.  It's not less talented, just unproven.  It isn't the coaching, Bill's the best.  It usually takes a player a couple of years to come into his own.  McCourty and Gronkowski were rookies and had a great year.

    The difference between this years loss and last years is that I feel more optimistic about the future.  There's not too many parts missing from this thing.

    Ron Borges is the anit-Christ of sports writing.  He's a perfect example of what's wrong with sport writers today, especially on the Globe.   
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    The offense has the talent and was poorly coached as the game progressed particularly, while the defense was thin and the Jets exploited it. This team needs some strength in the offensive game planning (maybe a new OC)
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOFFBURGER. Show HOFFBURGER's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    "the anti christ of sports writing"...LOL
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    O'Brien got slaughtered 2 years in a row.  Time to hire a real Offensive Coordinator.....even though I know it will never happen.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    The Patriots' 14-2 record this year was not a fluke and nobody is arguing that this defense is better than the ones that brought trophies home.

    They have the talent to win. They have beaten all of the remaining teams in the playoffs.

    But 1-2 vs the hated Jets this season is unconscionable, especially when one of those losses was in the playoffs.

    The Patriots earned home field. If these two teams played at Foxboro ten times how many would the Pats win? I would bet 8 or 9.

    The Jets played a great game Sunday. The Patriots didn't.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    To compare the Jets to any team and I think you end up in a talent debate.  The Jets are in it to win now.  Next year not so much as these high dollar players hit the door.  You'll see a lot of talent leave and the Jets along with Ryan will crash and burn.  So I find it hard to debate the talent thing with the Jets.  Especailly when you have Bodden and Warren out for the year.  To take this player and that player and compare them to the Pats players I think it's a no brainer that the Jets win out.  The Jets players are established while the Pats are not.  The one drawback I see is when you have so many undrafted FAs on the field.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Nope.  Not buying it.  I understand when he compares our players to past greats, but picking Jet units over Pat units...  no.  And their play in the regular season shows that.  Our running game is better, we didn't use it.  Our receivers?  Well, throw in tight ends, and its WAY better.  Watching Gronk turning away from where the pass was thrown was painful.  I suspect he had some brain farts, and I think if he had gotten rolling, it would have been different as the Jets rolled coverage to him.  We gave them the perfect scenario, underperforming to their strengths, letting them lead, then giving them easy points on stupid plays when they needed them.  They won, but just as much, WE LOST.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Usually, when things go so badly - it's not one cause.

    I gotta say it was a mixture of poor coaching (game plan, preperation, and play calling),poor play, inexperience, plus good solid play by the Jets.

    Gotta give kudos to the Jets for taking it to us.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    Gronkowski is a find, sort of.  It it wasn't for the back he would have been a high 1st rounder.   The back is still an issue, how long it will hold up and such.  But I would have to disagree on the WR arguement.  Very good established WRs.  I would think we would have them beat at TE but the WR corp for the Jets is very good.

    The problem with the comparison is you are comparing established players to 1st and 2nd year guys.  The established players will win every time.   Even going into the past was Bruschi the player he was in his first two years?  Did he start?  McCourty is a stud.  Did Revis have this good of a start?  It took a number of years before we heard of Revis island.  Yet Revis is viewed better than McCourty.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots:
    Gronkowski is a find, sort of.  It it wasn't for the back he would have been a high 1st rounder.   The back is still an issue, how long it will hold up and such.  But I would have to disagree on the WR arguement.  Very good established WRs.  I would think we would have them beat at TE but the WR corp for the Jets is very good. The problem with the comparison is you are comparing established players to 1st and 2nd year guys.  The established players will win every time.   Even going into the past was Bruschi the player he was in his first two years?  Did he start?  McCourty is a stud.  Did Revis have this good of a start?  It took a number of years before we heard of Revis island.  Yet Revis is viewed better than McCourty.
    Posted by garytx


    Gronk and Hernandez will (hopefully) continue to grow and improve during the next 3-4 years. We just need to address some problems that we've really had since 2005.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots

    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots:
    In Response to Re: Do you agree with Ron Borges?:Talent, not coaching, doomed Patriots : Gronk and Hernandez will (hopefully) continue to grow and improve during the next 3-4 years. We just need to address some problems that we've really had since 2005.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii


    To see Tate not develop this year was very disturbing.  He's the guy that can get separation but doesn't seem to read the defense right.

    The pass rush should be addressed.  Meaning DE and OLB.  More defensive help.  The Pats have to have another hit though.  They also have to patch up with Mankins.  Light can be resigned and the OL remains solid. 
     
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