Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD

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    [QUOTE]The biggest disappointemnt I have seen the past couple games is even though Randy Moss had another great game, he is also NOT adjusting or fighting to win the matchup to catch the ball! Especially when Tom Brady is a little off target! I hate watching the replay & seeing Moss's hands on his side, waiting for the ball to drop into his hands, just like the int at the beginning of the game.  I'm NOT hating on Randy Moss, because I love him as a wide receiver, but there are times I do feel he gets lazy or too comfortable playing with Ton Brady as QB.
    Posted by mrtm70[/QUOTE]

    Isn't this just how Moss has always played?  I've read several times how he doesn't raise his arms or even look back so that the defender is not alerted to the ball coming.  I guess you can say that this has sometimes bit him on the backside, but his overall record says this works for him more often than not.  I agree it's maddening to see, but this has been written about a lot.  It's just his style of playing.  The same can be said of his "taking plays off".  Champ Bailey described it best.  It's just his way of duping a defender into thinking he's not the target.  Sometimes he's "taking a play off" and then runs like lightning past the defender.  
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Perfect72...I read your first post & wanted to comment on Henne too.  I am a DIE HARD Pats fan and I live down in FL now & try to see the Fins games every week too (record them if they play the same time the Pats do). Henne has the potential to be the real deal in Miami! I visited a friend today who is a diehard Dolphins fan & we had a constructive conversation about the Fins.  I told him I felt bad for Henne because the Miami coaches aren't allowing him to get into any type of rythem because they keep taking him out to do the wildcat.  Though it seems o work now & again, you can see Henne steaming on the sidelines & if I was him, I would be too!!!  Also my friend wants Ginn to hang himself, lol! We both agreed that Ginn needs to ONLy be a return man for them & then an optional 4th or 5th receiver UNTIL he's practiced enough catches to not drop possible game winning balls.  BLAME Spurano for ill using his QB! SORRY...Anyway, on the PATS! The biggest disappointemnt I have seen the past couple games is even though Randy Moss had another great game, he is also NOT adjusting or fighting to win the matchup to catch the ball! Especially when Tom Brady is a little off target! I hate watching the replay & seeing Moss's hands on his side, waiting for the ball to drop into his hands, just like the int at the beginning of the game.  I'm NOT hating on Randy Moss, because I love him as a wide receiver, but there are times I do feel he gets lazy or too comfortable playing with Ton Brady as QB.
    Posted by mrtm70[/QUOTE]
    Thanks for the post. At least you admit(as a pats fan) Henne is a legitimate qb for the Dolphins. His face on the sidelines pretty much sizes up what he thinks about the wildcat. I think it totally takes him out of his rhythm. They should just scrap it and play a spread formation. You have to get Henne in the game. He's their future.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Please Tex...perfect example of what I'm talking about is the drop by Hartline and the drop by Ginn on 4th down. Please take off your red, white,and blue glasses and admit Henne is a quality qb.
     
    RESPONSE: Mr. Perfect...I stated in my previous post something to the effect that Henne has the potential to be a decent NFL QB. But, to qualify him now as such is both silly, and premature. What has he done in the league? Who has he beaten? Does he make his receivers look better than they really are? Is he a team leader? 

    I understand you really hate the dolphins but at least admit Henne has huge potential.
     
    RESPONSE: I don't really hate the Dolphins.  The Colts and Jets are another matter...LOL!!  Frankly, I haven't seen enough of Henne to render such an opinion.

    Those receivers you listed btw are also much better than what Miami has now.
     
    RESPONSE: Come now, Perfect One. I'd bet that Ted Ginn Jr. would be a better player with the Pats than he is in Miami. The Dolphins also have a possession receiver named Camarillo, who has impressed me.

    The pats did stack the box which you would think open up the passing game..but, if your receivers aren't getting seperation or dropping balls it won't matter. When Henne started to get into a rhythm they took him out for the wildcat.
     
    RESPONSE: Again, the coaches must not share the confidence that you have in Henne. They still feel that the best way for them to win is via the Wildcat.

    It drives me crazy with this team. It's going to limit Hennes progress..you and I both know this..Miami's a very young team but they are showing progress which you would never admit. Also,those 2 corners are going to be good for a very long time.

    RESPONSE: No...I don't know this. In fact, I'm of the opinion that they may actually be protecting Henne by running as much as they do...and protecting their young, vunerable secondary by using a ball control offense, which keeps their "D" off the field. What you fail to understand is that Parcells and company aren't in the business of "trying to develop" a good team...like Mr. Fail Fast First was. They're in the business of trying to maximize the talent that they have to win as many games as they can...NOW. After Parcells and company turned a 1-15 joke into the AFC East champs in just one year, how can you criticize these guys? Sure, the 'Fins are 3-5 thus far. But, unlike last year, Miami isn't sneaking up on anybody in 2009...and were saddled with a brutal schedule, as a result of their success in 2008. 
        As for their young CBs, the jury is still out. But, they do have potential.

    Posted by perfect72[/QUOTE]
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]
    Again, with the potential to be a "decent" player..it pretty much sums up your lack of respect for the Dolphins. Henne is 3-2 as a starter. He beat the Jets twice. He lost to the Saints when Miami had 5 drops in the second half. It's interesting you state how Tedd ginn would transform himself into Jerry Rice if he was on the Patriots. Homerism at it finest. Camarillo is their best receiver..that says it all. He wasn't even drafted. Ginn was taken by Cameron. He's obviously not a Parcells guy. The arrogance you show is getting old...get over yourself. Dolphins will probably not be in the playoffs this year(most likely). It still doesn't change the fact they are forming into what Parcells wants..which is a dangerous team. He's probably  running the wildcat to protect Henne until they get some real talent at the wide out position. In the meantime it frustrates me as a fan to watch such conservative play calling. The coaches aren't GIVING him chances to really sling it out there...
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD :      I was disappointed in the Pats' performance, even though they won. After all, these weren't the Steelers or Saints that they were facing. This game was too close for comfort. But for the redzone trouble, it would have been an easy win. I was also disappointed seeing Brady throw that early pick...which gave the Dolphins hope of competing. The Pats' will lose in Indy if they settle for FGs.
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    "The Pats' will lose in Indy if they settle for FGs".
    well thats obvious lol everyone knows that

    your say obvious things lol
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Again, with the potential to be a "decent" player..it pretty much sums up your lack of respect for the Dolphins. Henne is 3-2 as a starter. He beat the Jets twice. He lost to the Saints when Miami had 5 drops in the second half. It's interesting you state how Tedd ginn would transform himself into Jerry Rice if he was on the Patriots. Homerism at it finest. Camarillo is their best receiver..that says it all. He wasn't even drafted. Ginn was taken by Cameron. He's obviously not a Parcells guy. The arrogance you show is getting old...get over yourself. Dolphins will probably not be in the playoffs this year(most likely). It still doesn't change the fact they are forming into what Parcells wants..which is a dangerous team. He's probably  running the wildcat to protect Henne until they get some real talent at the wide out position. In the meantime it frustrates me as a fan to watch such conservative play calling. The coaches aren't GIVING him chances to really sling it out there...
    Posted by perfect72[/QUOTE]

    Henne needs receivers and a consistent, real offense in order to get a better gauge.

     Considering his circumstances (poor), I think he's doing well for himself.

    And I hope to see you around here a lot more often.
     
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    [QUOTE]     A bye week is usually a good thing to have in the middle of the season. But, in the case of the 2009 Patriots, last weeks' bye seem to hurt them. They were on a roll, and were just beginning to look 2007-like crisp....til the bye seemingly slowed their momentum. The Pats reverted to having troubles in the redzone, settling for four FGs...which turned what should have been an easy win into a nail-biter. They can ill afford to settle for FGs next week in Indy. Here are my grades:      A.) OFFENSE: Consistently moved the ball. But, redzone difficulties made this a tougher win than it should have been. 1.) QB: The "Terrific One" posted good numbers, going 25/37 for 332 yards. But, 107 of those yards came on two highlight reel plays made by Randy Moss...as the dink and dunk was very much in vogue. The failure to finish drives that was so prevalent early in the season, reared its' ugly head this week...and could have cost the Patriots this game. Brady interception on the Pats' initial drive, and the 52 yard FG that followed, gave the 'Fins hope. Though Tom turned in a solid effort against a defense that, 2007 aside, has given him trouble over the years...he, along with the coaches, must accept the lion's share of the blame for the redzone failures: GRADE: B-; 2.) RBs: Workman-like performance by the overly criticized Laurence Maroney, who carried 20 times for 82 yards...just enough to keep the 'Fins' defense honest. Kevin Faulk chipped in with 4 receptions for 35 yards.  GRADE: B; 3.) OL: Protected Tom Brady well. Would like to see them be more physical at the point of attack on running plays. With Dolphins' NT Jesse Ferguson, and ILB Channing Crowder out, it seems that the Patriots should have been more successful running the ball than they were: GRADE: B;   4.) WRs & TEs: Generally a good job of blocking by the TEs...and Ben Watson contributed in the passing game, with 4 catches for 49 yards. Another sensational game by Randy Moss against Miami, as he finished with 6 catches for 147 yards...including the two highlight reel plays discussed above. Wes Welker had his usual good "move the chains" game, with 9 catches for 84 yards. The Pats still lack a solid 3rd WR, as Sam Aiken returned to earth after his big game in London: GRADE: A;      B.) DEFENSE: Caged the "Cat" for most of the game...with the noticable exception of the two Miami TD drives. Though this unit allowed too many third down conversions, it managed to stop the Dolphins when needed in the 4th quarter.   1.) DL: No fancy stats, but controlled the "Cat". Though the Dolphins managed to rush for over 130 yards for the game, 35 of those came one one Pat White wildcat. Seemed to control the line of scrimmage, which in turn freed the LBs to make plays. GRADE: B; 2.) LBs: Jarod Mayo is the Patriots' Patrick Willis...as he finished with a game high 12 tackles, 7 of which were solos. Fellow ILB Gary Guyton chipped in with 5 tackles (4 solos), and OLBs Tully Banta-Cain (9 tackles/5 solos) and Adalius Thomas (4 tacles, 2 solos, and a sack) made plays throughout the day. GRADE: A-; 3.) SECONDARY: Brandon McGowan is proving to be one of the free agent steals of the offseason...as he was in on 11 tackles, 8 solos. A solid day of tackling by this unit, as Darius Butler, Leigh Bodden, Brandon Meriweather, and Patrick Chung  combined for 19 tackles, including 15 solos...and a sack (by Chung). I've seen a marked improvement in the play of Chung over the past two games. No big pass plays allowed...but thats' kind of expected against the Wizards of the Wildcat. GRADE: B+;      C.) SPECIAL TEAMS: Kept Jets buster Ted Ginn under control. It could be that the Patriots have found their own Ted Ginn in KR/WR Brandon Tate, who averaged over 30 yards on two chances. Tate bears watching. Outstanding 4/4 day for "The Ghost", who put the game out of the Dolphins' reach late in the 4th quarter. Punter is still a question mark: GRADE: B+;      D.) COACHING:  BB and his band of brothers had two weeks to prepare for the "Wildcat". Save for a couple of long-"cat" TD drives, one of which was fueled by the aforementioned 35 yard Pat White run, BB and his staff were able to cage it. Granted, though the Dolphins are an underrated team, the Pats' lack of success in the redzone must be addressed...and solved by next Sunday. GRADE: B-;      E.) PLAY OF THE GAME:  The 71 yard catch and, mostly run, by Randy Moss ;      F.) GAME BALL:  Randy Moss.     Here are the game stats: http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=291108017       Oh...incidently, Dolphins' LB Joey Porter failed to make the stat sheet. I guess Porter used up all of his energy smack-talking before the game...LOL!!      Thoughts?        
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    I can't disagree with much. That 10+ minute drive killed me but I blame the defensive play calling as much as anything. They seemed to be very successful when they blitzed but they didn't blitz as much as I thought they would. I wish they would get more aggressive on defense. That's my only complaint and I don't know if I could lower the coaching grade to a C just because of that. It was a good win.
     
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    Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Thanks for the post. At least you admit(as a pats fan) Henne is a legitimate qb for the Dolphins. His face on the sidelines pretty much sizes up what he thinks about the wildcat. I think it totally takes him out of his rhythm. They should just scrap it and play a spread formation. You have to get Henne in the game. He's their future.
    Posted by perfect72[/QUOTE]

    You know something, perfect..  as mrtim70 says, a QB would feel dissed when their team runs the "wildcat" so often.  Seems they need these gimmick plays to make the offense go, sort of a slap in the face saying.. " we do not think you are good enough to lead the offense 100% of the time while it is out there, we need gimmicks."  When you think about it, if the wildcat was so good, why go back to typical setups and run it 100% of the time?
     
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    TP as per usual your report card is quite throrough and accurate.  To me it is kind of funny with the day Brady had that he grades out at a B-, as we have come to expect so much from him.  For most QBs that is a B+ at worst.  He underthrew RM on the early deep ball, and the RZ did hurt a bit, but they did enough to win.  BJGE did not help with his drop, but my question is why have him running a 10 yard out in the end zone, guess no one else expected it either.  So that didn't help Brady.  Thought the draw on 3rd and 8 was a little conservative, and had to settle for 3.  One thing on the dink and dunk - it did win this team 3 Super Bowls. 
    Thought the O Line was fantastic being at the game, that may be my lone disagreement - even an A-.  The RZ sack on Brady in the first half was great coverage, and Brady should have chucked it into the stands.  They opened some huge holes for Maroney, but on the short yardage situations a Taylor or Morris would help big time!  Indy and NO - both tremendous offenses - both struggled in divisional games this weekend as well, so we can't be too hard on the lads.  Keep in mind too that Miami was basically playing a playoff game, as they are pretty much eliminated now unless they go on some miraculous run - although highly doubtful.  Lastly, I do think Henne may have a decent career ahead of him.  This is only his second year, and he does show flashes and Michigan has a pretty good pedigree of NFL QBs.    
     
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     The troubling feeling I came away with after watching yesterday's game was that a mature QB would have picked us apart. We get absolutely no pressure from rushing 3 or 4 linemen. Certainly Henne has alot of upside but I think vintage Pennington would have caused us way more trouble.. Peyton Manning may be salivating about his prospects next sunday. Our corners still play really soft and often receivers seem to grab 6 or 8 yards of separation from our cover guys. We've just got to take more timely chances with our blitzes and pray they generate a turnover or two. And why is Springs on the field at all?
     
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    In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD : "The Pats' will lose in Indy if they settle for FGs". well thats obvious lol everyone knows that your say obvious things lol
    Posted by Patsfan24-7[/QUOTE]

         I had forgotten why I had you on "ignore". Thanks for reminding me.
     
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    In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD : Again, with the potential to be a "decent" player..it pretty much sums up your lack of respect for the Dolphins. Henne is 3-2 as a starter. He beat the Jets twice. He lost to the Saints when Miami had 5 drops in the second half.
     
    RESPONSE: Mr. Perfect, you're a funny guy. The 'Fins are a "decent" team...no more, no less. If that offends you, I'm sorry...but you sought out my opinion, that thats' it. 
         You state that I have no respect for the 'Fins. That was true during Saban's last days, and during the travesty that was the 2007 "Fail Fast First", Cam Cameron season. But...as my previous posts clearly indicate, I have a great deal of respect and admiration for what Tony Sparano and Bill Parcells have done with the team. In fact, I chastised you for criticizing them.  
         As for Henne, he had little to do with Miami's recent win in NY. The Jets stopped the Dolphins' offense cold...but were beaten by two 100-plus yard KO returns by Ted Ginn. Sorry...but the guy hasn't shown me enough to classify him as the second coming of Bob Griese. I conceded that he has the potential to become a decent NFL QB. Whether he amounts to more, or less, remains to be seen. 

    It's interesting you state how Tedd ginn would transform himself into Jerry Rice if he was on the Patriots. Homerism at it finest.
     
    RESPONSE: LOL!! I simply stated that Ginn would be a better player if he played with Tom Brady, than on the current Miami team. I never said he'd transform into a pro-bowler, let alone the next Jerry Rice.

    Camarillo is their best receiver..that says it all. He wasn't even drafted. Ginn was taken by Cameron. He's obviously not a Parcells guy.
     
    RESPONSE: Wes Welker used to be their best receiver, too...and he too wasn't drafted. He's become a pro-bowler in New England. I would love to see the Pats get their hands on Camarillo, too.

    The arrogance you show is getting old...get over yourself.
     
    RESPONSE: Perfect One, why the hate? I'm stating my opinion. If you find it arrogant...sorry.

    Dolphins will probably not be in the playoffs this year(most likely). It still doesn't change the fact they are forming into what Parcells wants..which is a dangerous team.

    RESPONSE: The 'Fins were transformed into a dangerous team by Parcells and Sparano  last season.

    He's probably  running the wildcat to protect Henne until they get some real talent at the wide out position.
     
    RESPONSE: Thats' nearly exactly what I stated in my previous post!

    In the meantime it frustrates me as a fan to watch such conservative play calling. The coaches aren't GIVING him chances to really sling it out there...

    RESPONSE: It frustrates you as a fan to watch your team lose. Understandable.
         You may not like their grind it out offense, but the 'Fins were in striking distance to win this game using their conservative play. You're making no sense, here. You say that Henne has lousy WRs, yet you want him to air it out. Air it out to who? Parcells and Sparano are getting the most out of a team that, frankly, lacks the talent of the upper tier NFL teams. 
         Sorry if that offends you.  



    Posted by perfect72[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    TEX agreed with all except Coaching.

    Coaching deserves a "C" at best.  Too close of a game against inferior competition and 2 weeks to prepare and rest.

    A 10 Minute Drive to start to 3rd quarter with absolutely no pressure on the QB, allowing the Phins back in the game, was unacceptable.  Pats should have applied the Blitz pressure that was very successful by the JETS.....

    Otherwise an Excellent Report Card. 

    Defensive Player of the Game.... MAYO
     
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    In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]TP as per usual your report card is quite throrough and accurate.  To me it is kind of funny with the day Brady had that he grades out at a B-, as we have come to expect so much from him.  For most QBs that is a B+ at worst.  He underthrew RM on the early deep ball, and the RZ did hurt a bit, but they did enough to win.  BJGE did not help with his drop, but my question is why have him running a 10 yard out in the end zone, guess no one else expected it either.  So that didn't help Brady.  Thought the draw on 3rd and 8 was a little conservative, and had to settle for 3.  One thing on the dink and dunk - it did win this team 3 Super Bowls.

    RESPONSE: As the QB, Brady gets too much blame when things go wrong, and too much credit when they go well. The lion's share of the blame for going one for four in the redzone falls on the coaches and QB. That affected his grade. 
         Not knocking the "dink and dunk"...but lets not give too much credit to Tom, when 107 of his 332 yards passing were highlight reel plays by Randy Moss. 
         Opening drive pick was an underthrown ball, and gave Miami hope.


    Thought the O Line was fantastic being at the game, that may be my lone disagreement - even an A-.  The RZ sack on Brady in the first half was great coverage, and Brady should have chucked it into the stands.  They opened some huge holes for Maroney, but on the short yardage situations a Taylor or Morris would help big time!

    RESPONSE: You may have a point on the OL.

      Indy and NO - both tremendous offenses - both struggled in divisional games this weekend as well, so we can't be too hard on the lads.  Keep in mind too that Miami was basically playing a playoff game, as they are pretty much eliminated now unless they go on some miraculous run - although highly doubtful.

    RESPONSE: Point taken. But the Pats had too much trouble with an undermanned Miami team.

      Lastly, I do think Henne may have a decent career ahead of him.  This is only his second year, and he does show flashes and Michigan has a pretty good pedigree of NFL QBs.

    RESPONSE: Agreed. As I have stated repeatedly, the guy has shown the potential to become a decent NFL QB. But, as I explained in vain to Mr. Perfect, I haven't seen enough of him to tout him as the second coming of Bob Griese. 
        
    Posted by DBAZ22[/QUOTE]
     
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    In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]TEX agreed with all except Coaching. Coaching deserves a "C" at best.  Too close of a game against inferior competition and 2 weeks to prepare and rest.
     
    RESPONSE: Good point.

    A 10 Minute Drive to start to 3rd quarter with absolutely no pressure on the QB, allowing the Phins back in the game, was unacceptable.  Pats should have applied the Blitz pressure that was very successful by the JETS.....
     
    RESPONSE: Agreed...a 10 minute drive is unacceptable. But, thats' what the Dolphins do. They run the ball extremely well...and the Pats were playing too far off of the talent-challenged 'Fin receivers. 

    Otherwise an Excellent Report Card.  Defensive Player of the Game.... MAYO

    RESPONSE: Mayo played well, but Randy Moss won this game with his two highlight reel, Hall of Fame introduction-like plays.

    Posted by SmokingJoe[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    I had the feeling Henne did not love the WildCat switching in and out with White. especially when he was sacked for a big loss near the end of the game. He had a look on his face on the sideline that said he was not happy...
     
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    In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE] The troubling feeling I came away with after watching yesterday's game was that a mature QB would have picked us apart. We get absolutely no pressure from rushing 3 or 4 linemen. Certainly Henne has alot of upside but I think vintage Pennington would have caused us way more trouble.. Peyton Manning may be salivating about his prospects next sunday.

    RESPONSE: Agree completely. But, the Colts won't see the same defense the Dolphins saw Sunday. BB knows that Peyton is a different animal than Henne.

     Our corners still play really soft and often receivers seem to grab 6 or 8 yards of separation from our cover guys. We've just got to take more timely chances with our blitzes and pray they generate a turnover or two.
     
    RESPONSE: Agreed...and I think we'll see more blitzes in Indy.

    And why is Springs on the field at all?

    RESPONSE: If BB didn't think Springs could still contribute, he would send him the way of Joey Galloway...don't you think?

    Posted by trouts[/QUOTE]
     
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    In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD :
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Ok Tex, I get your points..and no you didn't offend me..thanks though..we will see you guys in a couple of weeks.
     
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    Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    I peg the Dolphins with an extremely high power rating, and have the utmost respect for them.  To off them by two scores is, mmm, actually average for the Patriots, which says something about the Pats.  However, I don't give the "A" student a "C" just because they did average for themselves.  They get an A for aceing a brutal midterm.  The Fish are 3 games back.  "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

    The Jets are 2 games back, and if New England can manage to beat the Jets at Foxboro, New England adds another game to that lead and nails down the divisional record tiebreaker on the Jets too.  It's cruise control time on a couple of apparently excellent but unlucky rivals.
     
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    Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD

    In Response to Re: Dolphins @ Patriots REPORT CARD:
    [QUOTE]I peg the Dolphins with an extremely high power rating, and have the utmost respect for them.  To off them by two scores is, mmm, actually average for the Patriots, which says something about the Pats.  However, I don't give the "A" student a "C" just because they did average for themselves.  They get an A for aceing a brutal midterm.

    RESPONSE: I tend to agree.

      The Fish are 3 games back.  "So long, and thanks for all the fish." The Jets are 2 games back, and if New England can manage to beat the Jets at Foxboro, New England adds another game to that lead and nails down the divisional record tiebreaker on the Jets too.  It's cruise control time on a couple of apparently excellent but unlucky rivals.

    RESPONSE: Paul...both the Jets and Dolphins are 9-7 type teams...good enough to rise up and beat anyone if they bring their "A" game. But, they're no match for the elite teams...so long as the elites play their "B" to "A" game. For these reasons, I can't get a rise out of the Pats winning their division. With the talent that they have, its' something that they should do. What difference does it make if the Pats win the AFC East, and than are playoff fodder? The Pats need to prove to the football world and, more importantly, to themselves, that they belong among the elite teams. They haven't beaten such a team, especially on the road, since 2007. Thats' why the Indy game is so huge for them.  

    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]
     

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