Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/dolphins/2013/11/06/miami-dolphins-jonathan-martin-richie-incognito-locker-room/3458891/

    How is reporting that Incognito used the term "n*****"  is "understated".  Where I come from and work, that term is NEVER acceptable.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    anonymis...  matter of perspective.  I do agree, the use of derogatory terms is never to be condoned.  But, Martin's interpretation of what was happening may have been totally different than the reality of what others observed. When you are a "sensitive" person, even the littleist thing has significantly more impact to oneself than to others who can shrug it off.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to agcsbill's comment:

    anonymis...  matter of perspective.  I do agree, the use of derogatory terms is never to be condoned.  But, Martin's interpretation of what was happening may have been totally different than the reality of what others observed. When you are a "sensitive" person, even the littleist thing has significantly more impact to oneself than to others who can shrug it off.



    Agreed, to an extent.  That being said, if anyone in my workplace used that term....they'd be fired if there was evidence that they used that term at the workplace.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated


    This is starting to seem like race baiting. First Riley Coopler and now this. We all know Racism is alive and well and as big as ever but why all of a sudden all these nfl stories coming out?  After a couple weeks, all of Rileys teamates took him back, he said he was sorry and that wasnt him and end of story. I really dont care cuz I treat people according to their actions, not skin color and I'll deal with any issues come my way in my own way but this notion that you can exhonerate a man because some kid didnt react like some others may when talked down to is ridiculous.

    Funny how just this morning, a younger friend of mine I play ball with(half white,.half cape verdian) just started a job last week doing landscaping with his brother(they both look white) and they have to listen daily while their white co workers make black jokes all day and use the N word in negative light. They do this because they dont know my friend is half cape verdian which is african. He sent me a long text THIS MORNING about how he was struggling with staying there. He has yet to speak out to them because they are new and only 2 deep and the rest are ALL part of the slandering and its uncomfortable. I told him to just get his paper and last as long as you can but dont do anything stupid. So I have a real life example ironically of how someone may not say anthing but still be offended due to being new and their being a "clique" type of atmosphere already in place.

    FOH with that

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    Martin may be oversensitive.  At the same time, I'm not sure how anyone can look at what was done and said to him as being "the littlest things."  Maybe this kind of behaviour is commonplace in the Dolphins' locker room and maybe other players accepted it and thought it was benign.  But I don't see why others' acceptance of an abusive atmosphere means that Martin has to accept it or that it should be allowed to continue.  Football may, in many ways, be a unique environment, but it's still a workplace and basic standards of workplace behaviour need to be maintained. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    Good read right here:

    Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas

     

    http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

     

    Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 12m

    Also, had a Dolphins official text me on @theMMQB first-person piece by Lydon Murtha (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/ ) His response, "Spot on".

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:


    This is starting to seem like race baiting. First Riley Coopler and now this. We all know Racism is alive and well and as big as ever but why all of a sudden all these nfl stories coming out?  After a couple weeks, all of Rileys teamates took him back, he said he was sorry and that wasnt him and end of story. I really dont care cuz I treat people according to their actions, not skin color and I'll deal with any issues come my way in my own way but this notion that you can exhonerate a man because some kid didnt react like some others may when talked down to is ridiculous.

    Funny how just this morning, a younger friend of mine I play ball with(half white,.half cape verdian) just started a job last week doing landscaping with his brother(they both look white) and they have to listen daily while their white co workers make black jokes all day and use the N word in negative light. They do this because they dont know my friend is half cape verdian which is african. He sent me a long text THIS MORNING about how he was struggling with staying there. He has yet to speak out to them because they are new and only 2 deep and the rest are ALL part of the slandering and its uncomfortable. I told him to just get his paper and last as long as you can but dont do anything stupid. So I have a real life example ironically of how someone may not say anthing but still be offended due to being new and their being a "clique" type of atmosphere already in place.

    FOH with that

     



    The people your friend works with are losers.    Anyone working anywhere being a racist tool is a loser.

     




    You don't have friends and you don't have a job.  Who is the loser?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    Sorry, but it's hard to take this guy's story seriously.  He was barely on the team with Martin before he was cut and he has an incentive to defend the Phins if he's trying to get back into the NFL.  Considering the voicemails and the fact that lots of teams didn't draft Incognito because of his behavior and his history of getting into trouble I just don't buy it.  Maybe Martin is more sensitive than the average guy, but Incognito is a whack job and has been for a while.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:

    Good read right here:

    Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas

     

    http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

     

    Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 12m

    Also, had a Dolphins official text me on @theMMQB first-person piece by Lydon Murtha (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/ ) His response, "Spot on".



    Mutha never played a regular season game with Martin.  His last contact with the team was 15 months ago; he was released less than 4 months after Martin was drafted.  This is no more an "insider's perspective" than any other sportswriter's, except this guy has a long-standing relationship with Incognito going back to college.

    What he says could be 100% true, or it could be a pile of bleep dressed up to smear Martin some more.  About the only thing I believe in that story is "The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out."

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Homecheese. Show Homecheese's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated


    I don't know how they can claim it's overstated. Racial slurs are never acceptable. The other thing is when he said he'd slap his mother across the face. My friends and I joke and say some brutal things to each other but the mother jokes stay out of it (as well as wives, girlfriends and kids). The rumor about Incognito harassing Martin for $15000 to fund a Vegas trip is also unacceptable. Its basically extortion.

    Martin is a second year player who is struggling with his play. If the dolphins think he needs to be tougher, then go to him and tell him- A) this is why you suck, because you are too soft, if you don't toughen up, you'll never make it in this league. Or, if you must B) Have a defensive player start a scuffle ON THE FIELD to get him to react. Players have been cut and released for starting physical altercations in locker rooms and weight rooms. So like I said, Martin ,a second year player who is struggling, may not have felt too much job security as it was and to top it off he has a vet who is supposed to be part of his band of brothers and helping him is instead harassing him constantly.  Martin talks to Philbin and it sounds like he gets a" yeah whatever", his agent calls the GM and gets a "he should punch him". It sounds like Martin is an adult amongst children. Am I surprised he checked into a hospital? Yes. It sounds like he does have some problems but to call him soft or to act like a man is stupid imo. Incognito, Ireland and Philbin are the children here.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:

    Good read right here:

    Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas

     

    http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

     

    Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 12m

    Also, had a Dolphins official text me on @theMMQB first-person piece by Lydon Murtha (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/ ) His response, "Spot on".




    The article did not really help defend the actions of people in the Dolphins organization. If at all, it just reinforced the idea that the culture is out of hand. Just because things normally happen within the organizational bubble does not mean it's okay. 

    Martin was singled out because he was too smart to play along with the nonsense. It does not matter that the nonsense was acceptable to others in the org. He should have been given the choice of not playing along, with no negative repercussions. With the rest of the team conspiring to make things harder for him because he made his choice to not play along with the nonsense, the problem became systemic -- therefore probably crossed some legal lines.

    I find it funny that this knucklehead it was okay to extort money from a rookie because he allowed himself to be extorted money from.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:


    Sounds great, Bustchise. A day off from the theater today? bawahaha

    Baldy Bustchise:

     

     

    Tears!



    If that's what he does for work then props to him, at least he is working.

    Hey, here you are

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHAMPSXLVIII. Show CHAMPSXLVIII's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    Maybe the whole story is not clear at this point and you don't need to have locked in opinion

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Sorry, but it's hard to take this guy's story seriously.  He was barely on the team with Martin before he was cut and he has an incentive to defend the Phins if he's trying to get back into the NFL.  Considering the voicemails and the fact that lots of teams didn't draft Incognito because of his behavior and his history of getting into trouble I just don't buy it.  Maybe Martin is more sensitive than the average guy, but Incognito is a whack job and has been for a while.



    Thats kind of how I took it. There is more of a connection between he and richie having played at nebraska together and much less of martin. Now obviously there is something to that because they(martin n richie) are seen together but how much of a friendship did they have in a year and also who is to say they didnt become cool being around each other so much and then Richie thought they were cool enough to push the envelope and thats when it got dicey. Like I said before, who really knows. Bottom line is Martins lack of seriousness to the matter doesnt equate to him being ok with it as. I had known for a while about Richie and him being a dirty player. He is like Suh but on the offensive side of the ball....well maybe not as bad as Suh....lol

    My take is the coach, with blessing from management informed vet. players to toughen up their 2nd round pick for fear of losing out on their investment and Richie took it too far, end of story. This should fall mostly on the Dolphins and I dont believe their was extortion going on. Just an akward relationship that turned volatile.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:

    Good read right here:

    Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas

     

    http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

     

    Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 12m

    Also, had a Dolphins official text me on @theMMQB first-person piece by Lydon Murtha (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/ ) His response, "Spot on".



    Mutha never played a regular season game with Martin.  His last contact with the team was 15 months ago; he was released less than 4 months after Martin was drafted.  This is no more an "insider's perspective" than any other sportswriter's, except this guy has a long-standing relationship with Incognito going back to college.

    What he says could be 100% true, or it could be a pile of bleep dressed up to smear Martin some more.  About the only thing I believe in that story is "The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out."




    He states that he is friends with both:

    "I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides"

    So in your opinion, is he lying?  Is he overstating his term "friends" with Martin?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:

     


    He states that he is friends with both:

    "I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides"

    So in your opinion, is he lying?  Is he overstating his term "friends" with Martin?



    Abso-frigging-lutely.  You'd have to be nuts to read that piece and think his relationship with Martin would be anymore than YOU'd have with a co-worker in your past that you worked with for less than 4 months.

    They were in ONE training camp together!  C'mon, man....

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

    In response to Uncle Rico's comment:

    Good read right here:

    Incognito and Martin: An Insider’s Story Former Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Lydon Murtha pulls back the curtain on what he saw and what he’s heard of the relationship between Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin, from the locker room dynamic to that now-famous O-line trip to Vegas

     

    http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/

     

    Albert Breer @AlbertBreer 12m

    Also, had a Dolphins official text me on @theMMQB first-person piece by Lydon Murtha (http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/07/richie-incognito-jonathan-martin-dolphins-lydon-murtha/ ) His response, "Spot on".



    Mutha never played a regular season game with Martin.  His last contact with the team was 15 months ago; he was released less than 4 months after Martin was drafted.  This is no more an "insider's perspective" than any other sportswriter's, except this guy has a long-standing relationship with Incognito going back to college.

    What he says could be 100% true, or it could be a pile of bleep dressed up to smear Martin some more.  About the only thing I believe in that story is "The coaches know everything. The coaches know who’s getting picked on and in many cases call for that player to be singled out."




    He states that he is friends with both:

    "I went to college at Nebraska with Richie Incognito, and I consider myself friends with him and Jonathan Martin, but I don’t speak with them regularly and I’m not taking sides"

    So in your opinion, is he lying?  Is he overstating his term "friends" with Martin?



    He is taking sides. It does not matter if he is saying he is not. Exactly what you said... he is overstating his friendhsip with Martin, obviously to boost his credibility in the matter.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    People that have to preface their comments with "I'm not taking sides" are probably taking sides.  Just saying.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:



    What I find interesting is how Martin is in his second year.  WHy would you constantly be needling a second year player continuously? I just don't buy that this happens on other teams on a regular basis.

    It appears to beyond the camraderie-driven friendly ribbing stuff.

     

     




    Bad leadership I guess. I read where Tedy B was saying in his 7th year, they were still trying to get him to pony up for meals until BB stepped in and said "Enough it Enough guys" and im sure that was the end of it. This new coach, who knows how much of it was him and how much was just the culture that got out of hand over the years with no consistent coaching staff.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to Harvey-Wallbanger's comment:


    What do you expect from Baldy Busty/Uncle Rico. He said he wouldn't know what to do without his "standing desk". lmao

     

     



    Hey Rusty, get a job!

    4,471 posts in less then 2 months???

    Get a life! 

    Bwahahaha! 

    Tears!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    Never thought this was a racial thing..ever.

     

    More from Williams interview:

     

    Asked about the racist language allegedly used by Incognito in text and voice messages, Williams took exception to the notion that societal standards apply to a locker room setting.

    "It's not inflammatory if it's your family," Williams said. "When you look at a team, especially two guys that play the same position, and you really understand how much time they spend together, you can't put it in the context that you would put it outside of a family setting. ... If you had a tape recorder in the locker room, you would hear a lot of stuff that wouldn't fly in the media. A football team, the NFL, it's a fraternity. ... It's not fair and it's not right for people on the outside to judge and try to figure out what's going on on the inside, because most of the people on the outside wouldn't last a week on an NFL team."

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    It doesn't matter if you or your mom or anyone else find the N word offensive.  Fathers would find the way their daughters husbands talk to them offensive.  Stuff you say to your friend your mom may find offensive.  It only matters if Martin found it offensive.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    At the risk of sounding insensitive or that I would ever tolerate racism...

    I've seen lots of things said in a locker room that would in no way be tolerated in the real world.  Everyone knows it's banter.  You are around a bunch of grown men and they say many things - racial or ethnic epithets, question your sexuality, the size of your knob,  you name it.  You either give it right back or you're perceived as fresh fish.  It's part of being a man, it's part of a ritual of acceptance amongst your peers, fair or not. I've come to realise as I grow a bit past my prime atlhletic years that I've dished it out as much as I've had to take it.  I've been the only caucasian in a locker room, the only Scottish-born guy in a room of Englishmen or Americans and I've been given a lot of lip for those reasons.  I'm positive I've said things in my life to others unlike me that, outside of a locker room, would have resulted in a fight.

    I can't say that I can totally relate to this Martin fellow in that I wasn't asked to dish out $15k for Vegas trips or the like.  But to me, if you're a man, stick up for yourself or be seen as a soft touch and suffer the consequences.  

       

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

    At the risk of sounding insensitive or that I would ever tolerate racism...

    I've seen lots of things said in a locker room that would in no way be tolerated in the real world.  Everyone knows it's banter.  You are around a bunch of grown men and they say many things - racial or ethnic epithets, question your sexuality, the size of your knob,  you name it.  You either give it right back or you're perceived as fresh fish.  It's part of being a man, it's part of a ritual of acceptance amongst your peers, fair or not. I've come to realise as I grow a bit past my prime atlhletic years that I've dished it out as much as I've had to take it.  I've been the only caucasian in a locker room, the only Scottish-born guy in a room of Englishmen or Americans and I've been given a lot of lip for those reasons.  I'm positive I've said things in my life to others unlike me that, outside of a locker room, would have resulted in a fight.

    I can't say that I can totally relate to this Martin fellow in that I wasn't asked to dish out $15k for Vegas trips or the like.  But to me, if you're a man, stick up for yourself or be seen as a soft touch and suffer the consequences.  

       



    I think he made it clear how he felt when he left the team. No one is gonna say the NFL is not a grown mans league and that the culture may be normal but in the context of it STILL being a proffesional job it may have gotten out of hand due to lack of leadership. We know BB. He has been here over 10 years. He nipped it in the bud early. How can a team show that leadership with new coaches every other year?

    I dont know if you read my post on this about my friends text JUST this morning but he sent a few more.  HE just started working , with his brother with a bunch of guys in landscaping who know each and have worked their years. Same thing to me. First day, they get introduced and one guy sais "hey this another co worker Jonny, He s*cks a mean C*ck, if you ever want your c*ck s*cked just ask him. Now this is how THEY joke but my friend felt akward. I recall playing football in H.S. and the white kids were the same way. I MADE the decision to quit football after my freshman year a.) due to 2 a days in august b.) do to the h0mo behaviour that was supposed to be a joke like guys walking up and grabbing your N*ts in the locker room. Sorry, I wasnt having that. Some comformed and some left. You make a choice but it doesnt excuse it.

    After the h0 mo jokes, the next day it was on to N*99er Jokes and talking about nooses and one guy saying his grandfather joined the military before they allowed women and N*99ers. He sais its what they DO ALL DAY! The ONLY reason he is privey is because they assume he is also white because he doesnt have melanin but his half african. Its funny how this just happened at the same time. He is really bothered and asked my advice. I told him get your paper if it becomes too much, just leave dont make a stink because he has no position. he is new and outnumbered same as martin was.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Dolphins Teamate Says Martins Claims Overstated

    Actually, the thing I find most interesting about Murtha's comments is how he says that everyone recognized that Martin was shy and standoffish.  Martin seems not to have fit in from the beginning.  Rather than just letting him be (which is the normal thing to do in such circumstances), his teammates and coach apparently decided that the way to make him fit in was to "toughen him up" by calling him names, addressing him with racial slurs and obscenities, threatening to assault his mother, threatening to kill him, pressuring him to pay for expensive trips he preferred not to go on, and playing pranks that implied they didn't like him.  Oh, and when he went to upper management (the GM) to discuss the problems he was having, they just advised him to punch those he had problems with him. 

    Martin is a guy from an upper middle class family who went to an elite school.  He's probably pretty different from a lot of the guys he works with because of those differences in background.  On top of that he appears to be shy and quiet and maybe likes to keep to himself.  He may not be the most socially adept person in the world (though of course I don't know).  But there's nothing wrong with any of that, and it should not preclude you from playing in the NFL.  The problem seems to be that no one in the Dolphins organization knew how to handle a stituation like this in an adult way.  Instead they resorted to regressed and even psycopathic behaviour.  Martin probably tried to go along with it for a while and laugh it off, but after two years of repeated insults and abuse, he began to feel that being in that environment was too stressful emotionally for him and so he left.  Really can't blame him.  

    The question then becomes is this the kind of work environment the NFL wants to be known for?  There's no reason you can't run a professional football team without more mature behaviour demanded from your employer.  In fact, all the truly good teams seem to maintain a far greater degree of professionalism.  Can you imagine Belichick letting this happen? If the league forces the Dolphins to change policies because of this, the Dolphins should thank them (and also thank Martin) for putting them back on the straight and narrow.  A team that lacks professionalism in the way the Dolphins appear to lack it is headed nowhere.  This Martin thing may turn out to be a blessing in disguise for that franchise. 

     

     

     

     

     
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