Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    Find most of your posts useless but I do agree here. Exteemism and fanaticism in all its colors and shades is dangerous and can be deadly.

    But ... I would also point to corporate malfesance as a huge problem for society. We have an ironic situation this week. Boston, four deaths and maybe 200 injuries from terrorism. Texas - 12 deaths, 60 missing, and as yet uncounted injuries from shoddy corporate safety, unfunded and/or neglegent enforcement of safety laws.

    I believe the rankings for death tolls worldwide and in the US in the last 20 years:

    1. Natural disasters

    2. War

    3. Corporate disasters

    4. Terrorism (a distant 4th)

    And that list does not include gun violence which would rank somewhere in the middle worldwide and at the top in the US.

    Yet we find it easy to spend any amount of money and infringe on constitutional rights to try to stop #4, but quible, underfund, and ignore the others.

    Miranda is interesting as it only protects against self incrimination and in this case is pretty worthless - there appears to be plenty of other proof of guilt. As for torture and military custody - no thanks. The records for the federal and state courts in handling terrorism are far superior to any other form of quasi-legal proceedings. And torture as the recent report and all previous studies have shown is a pretty worthless process for getting good intelligence.

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Find most of your posts useless but I do agree here. Exteemism and fanaticism in all its colors and shades is dangerous and can be deadly.

    But ... I would also point to corporate malfesance as a huge problem for society. We have an ironic situation this week. Boston, four deaths and maybe 200 injuries from terrorism. Texas - 12 deaths, 60 missing, and as yet uncounted injuries from shoddy corporate safety, unfunded and/or neglegent enforcement of safety laws.

    I believe the rankings for death tolls worldwide and in the US in the last 20 years:

    1. Natural disasters

    2. War

    3. Corporate disasters

    4. Terrorism (a distant 4th)

    And that list does not include gun violence which would rank somewhere in the middle worldwide and at the top in the US.

    Yet we find it easy to spend any amount of money and infringe on constitutional rights to try to stop #4, but quible, underfund, and ignore the others.

    Miranda is interesting as it only protects against self incrimination and in this case is pretty worthless - there appears to be plenty of other proof of guilt. As for torture and military custody - no thanks. The records for the federal and state courts in handling terrorism are far superior to any other form of quasi-legal proceedings. And torture as the recent report and all previous studies have shown is a pretty worthless process for getting good intelligence.



    Good post. Restores one's faith in American democracy to hear a thoughtful citizen speak.

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to THTM's comment:

    No the number one killer is disease,more people will die from a disease then everything else.Wash your hands before and after touching CC.



    I actually classify most death by disease with the other leader 'age' as part of the human condition. But you got me thinking about that, and easily preventable diseases that ravish the poorer parts of the world certainly would classify in my mind for the above list. That thinking is part of why I included natural disasters because especially in this country, by policy (federal flood insurance, etc.) and choice we have built on sandbars on the coast and flood plains everywhere - and we have destroyed or degraded natural barriers, and allowed infrastructure to decay or become outdated. ( With or without any discussion of climate change being a result of our activity.)

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to CommyContrarian's comment:

    love the fact that they did not read him his miranda rights and are classifying him as  a public safety exception (terrorist). i lean socially left on most issues but hope they take him to gitmo and use some waterboarding tactics on him as well if need be BEFORE bringing him to a federal court for the death penalty. lets not be coyed and feared into thinking the enemy is just radical islam. the enemy can ultimately be a timothy mcvie (did we go after all irish guys?) or the IRA (most of their $ came from this country, again did we persecute all the irish?), atheists and nonatheists or christian violent extremists like eric rudolph (who did something similar at the 1996 olympics in addition to killing abortion providers). the unabomber was your classic lefty atheist-naturalist violent extremist. the guy in norway who killed all those kids last year was not a muslim, but a blonde nationalist-christian anarchist type. lanza with newtown was just an anarchist as well. the movie theater guy was in the same category as was the mall shooting guy who i believe was JAPANESE.

    by far, apart from that one incident (9/11), more americans and westerners have been terrorized by their own kind than from violent muslim extremists.. by far! shouldnt hurt less because ur shot by your brother or neighbor. yes, some immigrants are violent just like some nativists. called life, deal with it! about time though that obama and the left stop with the individual exception game and adopt my term of "violent extremism" to combat the GOP's usual narrow description.. in this case "radical islam!"...

    from now on, anyone with youtube or FB pages promoting violence or of folks promoting such violence should b treated like someone taking target practice at the prez or threatening him in that way. should b on a watch list and vigorously interrogated and looked at. if an immigrant, instant deportation or hearings to revoke status should b in play. enough is enough. now back to the gun debate... anyone yappping about overthrowing the government or using violence against it should not have a gun and should be watched. your arsenal should be enough to protect not your individual family or homes, not to overthrow anything. one big  issue in this whole recent boston standoff is how the heck could these guys acquire all these guns, high powered weapons, grenades and serious bombs. this happens in no other country esp in the west and they too have violent types. they will soon find that the gun loopholes contributed.

    we now have public faces of violence that can represent change. newtown now represents the face of gun violence and boston now represents the face of bomb violence!

     

     


    Your post is hardly indicative of a contrarian viewpoint. Not exactly cutting edge thinking. You sound like most of the Neanderthals on this board. You support torture ? Nice. You think 9/11 was the result of Muslim extremists ?  Clearly, you rely on mainstream media for your information. Try reading some books and becoming informed instead of just opinionated. For starters, read  "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael Ruppert and "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins and "Overthrow : America's Century of Regieme Change, from Hawaii to Iraq" by Stephen Kinzer. It's OK. 97% of Americans are also misinformed. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Find most of your posts useless but I do agree here. Exteemism and fanaticism in all its colors and shades is dangerous and can be deadly.

    But ... I would also point to corporate malfesance as a huge problem for society. We have an ironic situation this week. Boston, four deaths and maybe 200 injuries from terrorism. Texas - 12 deaths, 60 missing, and as yet uncounted injuries from shoddy corporate safety, unfunded and/or neglegent enforcement of safety laws.

    I believe the rankings for death tolls worldwide and in the US in the last 20 years:

    1. Natural disasters

    2. War

    3. Corporate disasters

    4. Terrorism (a distant 4th)

    And that list does not include gun violence which would rank somewhere in the middle worldwide and at the top in the US.

    Yet we find it easy to spend any amount of money and infringe on constitutional rights to try to stop #4, but quible, underfund, and ignore the others.

    Miranda is interesting as it only protects against self incrimination and in this case is pretty worthless - there appears to be plenty of other proof of guilt. As for torture and military custody - no thanks. The records for the federal and state courts in handling terrorism are far superior to any other form of quasi-legal proceedings. And torture as the recent report and all previous studies have shown is a pretty worthless process for getting good intelligence.



    Spot on there when it comes to board loser and attention wh0re Commie

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    you support torturing someone without being shown any evidence that they committed a crime. that makes you a violent extremist you numb skull.



    We elect those people who makes those calls. That's how it works here.  I'm curious, and of course, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to but were you and your parents born in the US?  Just curious.

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to Godvernment's comment:

     

    you support torturing someone without being shown any evidence that they committed a crime. that makes you a violent extremist you numb skull.

     



    We elect those people who makes those calls. That's how it works here.  I'm curious, and of course, you don't have to answer this if you don't want to but were you and your parents born in the US?  Just curious.

     

     



    yes they were. curious, why does that matter? are you some type of bigot? were your parents born in the US? your ancestors certainly weren't born in the US. the FBI should look into you.... yawn.

     



    I'm taking a random poll, thought I would ask you.  Yes, mine were too. 

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to CommyContrarian's comment:

    love the fact that they did not read him his miranda rights and are classifying him as  a public safety exception (terrorist). i lean socially left on most issues but hope they take him to gitmo and use some waterboarding tactics on him as well if need be BEFORE bringing him to a federal court for the death penalty. lets not be coyed and feared into thinking the enemy is just radical islam. the enemy can ultimately be a timothy mcvie (did we go after all irish guys?) or the IRA (most of their $ came from this country, again did we persecute all the irish?), atheists and nonatheists or christian violent extremists like eric rudolph (who did something similar at the 1996 olympics in addition to killing abortion providers). the unabomber was your classic lefty atheist-naturalist violent extremist. the guy in norway who killed all those kids last year was not a muslim, but a blonde nationalist-christian anarchist type. lanza with newtown was just an anarchist as well. the movie theater guy was in the same category as was the mall shooting guy who i believe was JAPANESE.

    by far, apart from that one incident (9/11), more americans and westerners have been terrorized by their own kind than from violent muslim extremists.. by far! shouldnt hurt less because ur shot by your brother or neighbor. yes, some immigrants are violent just like some nativists. called life, deal with it! about time though that obama and the left stop with the individual exception game and adopt my term of "violent extremism" to combat the GOP's usual narrow description.. in this case "radical islam!"...

    from now on, anyone with youtube or FB pages promoting violence or of folks promoting such violence should b treated like someone taking target practice at the prez or threatening him in that way. should b on a watch list and vigorously interrogated and looked at. if an immigrant, instant deportation or hearings to revoke status should b in play. enough is enough. now back to the gun debate... anyone yappping about overthrowing the government or using violence against it should not have a gun and should be watched. your arsenal should be enough to protect not your individual family or homes, not to overthrow anything. one big  issue in this whole recent boston standoff is how the heck could these guys acquire all these guns, high powered weapons, grenades and serious bombs. this happens in no other country esp in the west and they too have violent types. they will soon find that the gun loopholes contributed.

    we now have public faces of violence that can represent change. newtown now represents the face of gun violence and boston now represents the face of bomb violence!

     

     



    Pretending that Islamic extremism is not a far greater threat, and responsible for the vast majority of terrorist crimes around the world does not make it true.  Mcveigh was not motivated by Christianity, there have been people motivated to kill by Christianity or Buddhism, or even atheism but they are few and far between and are always criticized immediately by others of the same faith.  This is not the case with Islamic extremism where hundreds of people are killed around the world every month by dozens of terrorist acts and those acts are openly supported and cheered by those in Islamic countries.  

    Don't you think we should ask ourselves why so many people from one faith feel that Islamic doctrine teaches killing of nonbelievers?  Does Islamic doctrine teach to kill nonbelievers or doesn't it?  It's a fair question?

    Saying we can't approach Islamic doctrine for criticism is like saying we can't criticize Christian or Nazi or KKK doctrine and beliefs.  The KKK only killed a relatively few people vs nationwide murders or disease so should we teach tolerance of their beliefs?  Ideologies can be criticized and not all ideologies are the same.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to mia76's comment:

    Find most of your posts useless but I do agree here. Exteemism and fanaticism in all its colors and shades is dangerous and can be deadly.

    But ... I would also point to corporate malfesance as a huge problem for society. We have an ironic situation this week. Boston, four deaths and maybe 200 injuries from terrorism. Texas - 12 deaths, 60 missing, and as yet uncounted injuries from shoddy corporate safety, unfunded and/or neglegent enforcement of safety laws.

    I believe the rankings for death tolls worldwide and in the US in the last 20 years:

    1. Natural disasters

    2. War

    3. Corporate disasters

    4. Terrorism (a distant 4th)

    And that list does not include gun violence which would rank somewhere in the middle worldwide and at the top in the US.

    Yet we find it easy to spend any amount of money and infringe on constitutional rights to try to stop #4, but quible, underfund, and ignore the others.

    Miranda is interesting as it only protects against self incrimination and in this case is pretty worthless - there appears to be plenty of other proof of guilt. As for torture and military custody - no thanks. The records for the federal and state courts in handling terrorism are far superior to any other form of quasi-legal proceedings. And torture as the recent report and all previous studies have shown is a pretty worthless process for getting good intelligence.



    There are probably even more deaths from natural causes, but what is your point?  We spend huge amounts of money on all of those things.  

    Natural disasters are largely uncontrollable but plenty of time and money are spent on engineering solutions for emergencies, there's is an entire government organization dedicated to just that.

    War is kind of generic here.  But yes, people die in war.  Most of those people are combatants.  Should we have not fought the Nazis because people will die in war?  

    Corporate disasters happen and when they do those responsible are held financially accountable.  But there are regulations from OSHA and labor laws to protect public safety.

    Terrorism is a problem, it threatens to kill innocent civilians.  I think it's fair to try to stop terrorism.

    We try to stop the killing of innocent people wherever we can.  I don't see any logic in saying more people die from natural disasters therefore we can ignore terrorism.  Both are problems both warrant attention.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    The problem in the Islamic world right now has much more to do with politics and economics than religion.  Yes, religion is used by violent extremists to justify their acts, but any religion could be so misused.  It just happens that Islam is the local one.  Violence is actually even worse in much of non-Islamic sub-Saharan Africa where the political and economic problems are even greater, but that gets little attention in the West because, for the most part, there's less interaction between those African countries and the West than there is between Islamic countries and the West. 

     

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    Lets Go Patriots! Clap clap clapclapclap. Lets Go Patriots! Clap Clap Clapclapclap.

    Theres nothing wrong with your political beliefs fellas, but this is a Patriots chat board. There are other boards available for this conversation on BDC. 

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    I know you start these threads on the Sox board too Commy. Are they on the B's and C's as well?

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     


    Pretending that Islamic extremism is not a far greater threat, and responsible for the vast majority of terrorist crimes around the world does not make it true.  Mcveigh was not motivated by Christianity, there have been people motivated to kill by Christianity or Buddhism, or even atheism but they are few and far between and are always criticized immediately by others of the same faith.  This is not the case with Islamic extremism where hundreds of people are killed around the world every month by dozens of terrorist acts and those acts are openly supported and cheered by those in Islamic countries.  

     

    Don't you think we should ask ourselves why so many people from one faith feel that Islamic doctrine teaches killing of nonbelievers?  Does Islamic doctrine teach to kill nonbelievers or doesn't it?  It's a fair question?

    Saying we can't approach Islamic doctrine for criticism is like saying we can't criticize Christian or Nazi or KKK doctrine and beliefs.  The KKK only killed a relatively few people vs nationwide murders or disease so should we teach tolerance of their beliefs?  Ideologies can be criticized and not all ideologies are the same.



    I think the point being made is the extreemism and fanatacism in any form is very dangerous and not to worry quite so much about the total deaths related to the various forms. I might add that militarism might also be seen as a form of fanaticism - the idea that there is a military solution to every problem has caused the world alot of problems in this and the past centuries.

    And in terms of faith based extreemism, I do not think you would find many English or Irish people saying that Islamic fanaticism has cause more death and destruction than Catholic AND Protestant fanaticism. Nor many sub-saharan africans worried about Jewish, Christian, or Islamic fanatics - they seemed to do just fine with their own ethnic fanatics in terms of death and destruction.

    I do agree that there are troubling aspects of Islam and their attitude to non-believers, but there are also issues with other faiths and the underlying texts - while the new testament is mostly love and forgiveness, there is a bit to much vengance and 'bring not peace but a sword' in the old testament. Mostly it comes down to interpretations and emphasis of parts of the texts and ignoring the other bits. And fanatical Christians through the ages have wreaked vengance on not just non-believers but fellow Christians that have slightly different interpretations of the same texts. Not dissimilar to Suni vs. Shia violence and terrorism. I believe the number of Islamic deaths due to 'terrorism' by Islamic fanatics far outways any deaths they have cause to non-believers over the last 20 years or throughout history.

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    The reality, though, is statistically the threat from gun violence in the US far outweighs the threat from terrorism. The attack in Boston was a terrible event, but equally horrific mass shootings like Newtown and Colorado are significantly more common.  I see very little difference between slaughtering dozens of innocent movie goers with a firearm and slaughtering dozens of innocent marathon spectators with a bomb.  They are effectively the same crime in my mind. Yet the anger directed toward one seems greater to me than that directed toward the other.  And while all sorts of people are calling for torture or denial of due process for Tsarnaev in Boston, did anyone at all advocate such measures for Holmes in Colorado?

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    The reality, though, is statistically the threat from gun violence in the US far outweighs the threat from terrorism. The attack in Boston was a terrible event, but equally horrific mass shootings like Newtown and Colorado are significantly more common.  I see very little difference between slaughtering dozens of innocent movie goers with a firearm and slaughtering dozens of innocent marathon spectators with a bomb.  They are effectively the same crime in my mind. Yet the anger directed toward one seems greater to me than that directed toward the other.  And while all sorts of people are calling for torture or denial of due process for Tsarnaev in Boston, did anyone at all advocate such measures for Holmes in Colorado?

     



    I've heard nobody calling for the torture or denial of due process for the Boston bombers.  

     

    The claim that He will not be Mirandized is not verified.  I'm watching the news right now on it and they said that is false and they fully expect the justice department to confirm the claim to be false in their press conference.  I've heard at least as much outrage over the Newtown shootings.  In response to Newtown the government has tried to quickly pass new gun laws.  We don't hear about changing laws for the bombings.  I just don't see the equivocation, both were crimes.  They should both be addressed.  

    Ultimately though, if somebody wants to kill they can find a way.  There is a difference though in that this appears to be an attack directly against America justified by Islamic doctrine and Newtown was likely justified by a perception to being bullied and maybe mental illness.  I think both motivations should be addressed.

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    The reality, though, is statistically the threat from gun violence in the US far outweighs the threat from terrorism. The attack in Boston was a terrible event, but equally horrific mass shootings like Newtown and Colorado are significantly more common.  I see very little difference between slaughtering dozens of innocent movie goers with a firearm and slaughtering dozens of innocent marathon spectators with a bomb.  They are effectively the same crime in my mind. Yet the anger directed toward one seems greater to me than that directed toward the other.  And while all sorts of people are calling for torture or denial of due process for Tsarnaev in Boston, did anyone at all advocate such measures for Holmes in Colorado?

     



    I've heard nobody calling for the torture or denial of due process for the Boston bombers.  

    Guess you haven't been reading this board or even this thread.  Either that, or you don't believe waterboarding is torture and you think tossing someone in Gitmo is due process (see original post above).

    The claim that He will not be Mirandized is not verified.  I'm watching the news right now on it and they said that is false and they fully expect the justice department to confirm the claim to be false in their press conference.  I Moreau least as much outrage over the Newtown shootings.  In response to Newtown the government has tried to quickly pass new gun laws.  We don't hear about changing laws for the bombings.  I just don't see the equivocation, both were crimes.  They should both be addressed.  

    Lots of outrage for the kids, maybe a bit less for the movie goers. My point though is you don't hear many people calling for things like torture and suspension of habeas corpuse for monsters like Holmes but you do for equivalent monsters like Tsarnaev.  And the gun law . . . please . . . it couldn't pass. Meanwhile all sorts of laws limiting civil liberties in cases of terrorism have passed annually since 2011. 

    Ultimately though, if somebody wants to kill they can find a way.  But if somebody subscribes to be a member of a group that believes killing is justified than that is something we should look at.




     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to mia76's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

     


    Pretending that Islamic extremism is not a far greater threat, and responsible for the vast majority of terrorist crimes around the world does not make it true.  Mcveigh was not motivated by Christianity, there have been people motivated to kill by Christianity or Buddhism, or even atheism but they are few and far between and are always criticized immediately by others of the same faith.  This is not the case with Islamic extremism where hundreds of people are killed around the world every month by dozens of terrorist acts and those acts are openly supported and cheered by those in Islamic countries.  

     

    Don't you think we should ask ourselves why so many people from one faith feel that Islamic doctrine teaches killing of nonbelievers?  Does Islamic doctrine teach to kill nonbelievers or doesn't it?  It's a fair question?

    Saying we can't approach Islamic doctrine for criticism is like saying we can't criticize Christian or Nazi or KKK doctrine and beliefs.  The KKK only killed a relatively few people vs nationwide murders or disease so should we teach tolerance of their beliefs?  Ideologies can be criticized and not all ideologies are the same.

     



    I think the point being made is the extreemism and fanatacism in any form is very dangerous and not to worry quite so much about the total deaths related to the various forms. I might add that militarism might also be seen as a form of fanaticism - the idea that there is a military solution to every problem has caused the world alot of problems in this and the past centuries.

     

    And in terms of faith based extreemism, I do not think you would find many English or Irish people saying that Islamic fanaticism has cause more death and destruction than Catholic AND Protestant fanaticism. Nor many sub-saharan africans worried about Jewish, Christian, or Islamic fanatics - they seemed to do just fine with their own ethnic fanatics in terms of death and destruction.

    I do agree that there are troubling aspects of Islam and their attitude to non-believers, but there are also issues with other faiths and the underlying texts - while the new testament is mostly love and forgiveness, there is a bit to much vengance and 'bring not peace but a sword' in the old testament. Mostly it comes down to interpretations and emphasis of parts of the texts and ignoring the other bits. And fanatical Christians through the ages have wreaked vengance on not just non-believers but fellow Christians that have slightly different interpretations of the same texts. Not dissimilar to Suni vs. Shia violence and terrorism. I believe the number of Islamic deaths due to 'terrorism' by Islamic fanatics far outways any deaths they have cause to non-believers over the last 20 years or throughout history.



    Are you aware of the Islamic Caliphate following Mohommads's death and the reason the crusades were called?  Islamic history has been far more bloody and oppressive throughout history and today than any other religion in terms of religious motivation.  

    I understand what your saying in terms of the oppression from Christianity in European history but it is simply not on a scale that is close to the wars waged for hundreds of years in the name of Islam.  More people died in the WTC than the entire Spanish inquisition. Mohommad was a warrior who had revelations from god to inspire his followers to war and the Quran is filled with those revelations.  No other religion was formed by the teachings of a warrior.  I think history shows Islamic doctrine is different in both its message and practice by many followers than other faiths.

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    The reality, though, is statistically the threat from gun violence in the US far outweighs the threat from terrorism. The attack in Boston was a terrible event, but equally horrific mass shootings like Newtown and Colorado are significantly more common.  I see very little difference between slaughtering dozens of innocent movie goers with a firearm and slaughtering dozens of innocent marathon spectators with a bomb.  They are effectively the same crime in my mind. Yet the anger directed toward one seems greater to me than that directed toward the other.  And while all sorts of people are calling for torture or denial of due process for Tsarnaev in Boston, did anyone at all advocate such measures for Holmes in Colorado?



    How many people do you think would be dead now if those two a**holes were carrying semi-auto or automatic rifles? 

     
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    Re: Don't ever forget this.. the real enemy is VIOLENT extremists of ALL stripes!

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to shenanigan's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    The reality, though, is statistically the threat from gun violence in the US far outweighs the threat from terrorism. The attack in Boston was a terrible event, but equally horrific mass shootings like Newtown and Colorado are significantly more common.  I see very little difference between slaughtering dozens of innocent movie goers with a firearm and slaughtering dozens of innocent marathon spectators with a bomb.  They are effectively the same crime in my mind. Yet the anger directed toward one seems greater to me than that directed toward the other.  And while all sorts of people are calling for torture or denial of due process for Tsarnaev in Boston, did anyone at all advocate such measures for Holmes in Colorado?

     



    I've heard nobody calling for the torture or denial of due process for the Boston bombers.  

    Guess you haven't been reading this board or even this thread.  Either that, or you don't believe waterboarding is torture and you think tossing someone in Gitmo is due process (see original post above).

    The claim that He will not be Mirandized is not verified.  I'm watching the news right now on it and they said that is false and they fully expect the justice department to confirm the claim to be false in their press conference.  I Moreau least as much outrage over the Newtown shootings.  In response to Newtown the government has tried to quickly pass new gun laws.  We don't hear about changing laws for the bombings.  I just don't see the equivocation, both were crimes.  They should both be addressed.  

    Lots of outrage for the kids, maybe a bit less for the movie goers. My point though is you don't hear many people calling for things like torture and suspension of habeas corpuse for monsters like Holmes but you do for equivalent monsters like Tsarnaev.  And the gun law . . . please . . . it couldn't pass. Meanwhile all sorts of laws limiting civil liberties in cases of terrorism have passed annually since 2011. 

    Ultimately though, if somebody wants to kill they can find a way.  But if somebody subscribes to be a member of a group that believes killing is justified than that is something we should look at.

     




     



    I reread every post and not one calls for torture or denial of due process.  

    I would imagine there is some small inconsequential percentage of people who would support that idea in either case but that hardly makes it worth addressing as though its a major problem.  

    Your disagreement with laws does not make them unjust, they were passed by representatives that you and your fellow Americans voted for.  I don't agree with all the laws, I find some gun laws to be an infringement of the second amendment but they were passed in the name of public safety.  We have always had laws that limit our freedoms to some degree for public safety.  If you don't like them than change public opinion enough and you will change the people who make the laws.  For now you just have to suffer the fact that democracy doesn't mean you always get what YOU want.

     

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