Dowling to IR.... again.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:



    No that wasnt my point. Of course of u take a guy earlier if U want him. MY point was B.B. is the one who sais "it doesnt matter where ur drafted because u are all the same at camp" 

     

    B.B actually has chosen quite a few Dbs late and thats HIS choice. he can draft a Cb in the 1st but hasnt until Devin. Hobbs was a 5th rounder who started and B.B. loved. Asante was a 4rth rounder. Rodney was a 5th rounder. The only busts have been the early pics with us. so explain that...



    No one is saying you can't get quality guys at CB in the later rounds, but the odds are not in your favor.  For every Asante there are 10 first rounders.  I mean hell off the top of my head 1st rd CBs that are pretty dam good are Revis, Asomugha, Cromartie, Haden, Hall, Joseph, Bailey, Rogers, Peterson.  I'm sure there are a lot more that I can't even remember.




     

    Right and B.B. has always been a guy to put a LOW value on his Dbs as well as Wrs. I agree about wideouts but in this league you need quality cbs.

     

    This isnt a "we are good so we draft late issue" its a they dont spend issue.  Even if you dont pick until late in the 1st or early 2nd they should be better then guys picked in the 5th right?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    And to top it off, I never made the comment in the first place.. Dude Thriller album track 5 please.




    Yeah, but you are the one called me out first genius.  My original post wasn't even in reference to you.  You chose to make it about you.



    You generalized, so ya you were sort of seeing as how I was part of the discussion. Perhaps you should have took issue with the specific poster(s) you were refering to.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     


    Vollmer has had injury issues for us. And everybody knew he had a bad back on draft day as they knew Ras-I was injury prone. We've been lucky with Gronk.



    That is exactly my point.  We take guys with injury risks probably because it is the easiest way to draft guys with high first round upside in the later parts of the draft.  No one complains about the ones that work out.




    Well, no. They wouldn't complain about the ones that work out. That dosn't mean they think that overall startegy is a good one.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I love all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on in this thread to the tune of "I knew we shouldn't have drafted Ras I because he was an injury risk".  By that logic we shouldn't have drafted Gronk or Vollmer who have been All-Pros.




    Vollmer has had injury issues for us. And everybody knew he had a bad back on draft day as they knew Ras-I was injury prone. We've been lucky with Gronk.



    I think having one documented injury like Gronk and his back is different then being injury prone and getting hurt wherever however. Which is far worse, imo.




    True. The one injury can be better verified as resolved than a general tendency to be fragile.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    True. The one injury can be better verified as resolved than a general tendency to be fragile.



    Back surgery that keeps you out for an entire year means a potentially chronic condition or at least elevated risk for future injuries to that area.  I mean christ right before the draft there were rumors that Gronk had spinal stenosis.  He missed the combine because of a back injury.  If teams didn't think he was an injury risk there is absolutely no way he goes to the 2nd round imo.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    Just think of all the Super Bowls we could of won in the Brady era if BB had 1/2 a F***ing clue how to draft DB's. at least 5 maybe 7.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Let's fact it. BB will never be enshrined in Canton for his drafting prowess.




    HA HA HA, yeah imagine the ignorance it takes a GM to draft players that don't work out. Especially the nerve to draft a player that gets injured UGHHH..... What a ninny.

    If BB could only be as good a GM as the other 31 guys in the league then and ONLY THEN would we be a winning team for the last 12 years.

    Oh well, lets just hope Matt Millen comes out of retirement sooner then later.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Let's fact it. BB will never be enshrined in Canton for his drafting prowess.




    HA HA HA, yeah imagine the ignorance it takes a GM to draft players that don't work out. Especially the nerve to draft a player that gets injured UGHHH..... What a ninny.

    If BB could only be as good a GM as the other 31 guys in the league then and ONLY THEN would we be a winning team for the last 12 years.

    Oh well, lets just hope Matt Millen comes out of retirement sooner then later.



    Dude no one is doubting what an amazing coach BB is or gm. The fact of the matter is everyone has flaws and BB can't draft corners or coach them up for that matter.

    One solid pro out of all the corner's he's drafted in his whole tenure. Asante Samuel. That is an undisputable undeniable fact whether you or anyone else would like to ignore it or not.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Let's fact it. BB will never be enshrined in Canton for his drafting prowess.




    HA HA HA, yeah imagine the ignorance it takes a GM to draft players that don't work out. Especially the nerve to draft a player that gets injured UGHHH..... What a ninny.

    If BB could only be as good a GM as the other 31 guys in the league then and ONLY THEN would we be a winning team for the last 12 years.

    Oh well, lets just hope Matt Millen comes out of retirement sooner then later.



    Dude no one is doubting what an amazing coach BB is or gm. The fact of the matter is everyone has flaws and BB can't draft corners or coach them up for that matter.

    One solid pro out of all the corner's he's drafted in his whole tenure. Asante Samuel. That is an undisputable undeniable fact whether you or anyone else would like to ignore it or not.




    I guess you missed the statement I was replying to? Don't worry, I underlined it, put in italics and made it bold.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    Ya but your post clearly insinuates that you refuse to believe BB doesn't have a major flaw in this area that has been and could be the reason we lose out on another shot at a title run in Brady's twilight years.

    People need to accept the facts. The secondary stinks, has stunk for years and BB constantly misses when drafting in the secondary. Not saying other positions, just the secondary.

     

    It's been horrible and costly..

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I love all the Monday Morning Quarterbacking going on in this thread to the tune of "I knew we shouldn't have drafted Ras I because he was an injury risk".  By that logic we shouldn't have drafted Gronk or Vollmer who have been All-Pros.



    You're being simplistic on this. There is a difference between having been injured and being injury prone. Gronk was the former. Dowling was and has always been the latter.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    Ya but your post clearly insinuates that you refuse to believe BB doesn't have a major flaw in this area that has been and could be the reason we lose out on another shot at a title run in Brady's twilight years.

    People need to accept the facts. The secondary stinks, has stunk for years and BB constantly misses when drafting in the secondary. Not saying other positions, just the secondary.

     

    It's been horrible and costly..




    Wow and here I was thinking the 15 point per game average we scored in the last 2 Super bowls was the reason we don't have lombardi #4 or #5. You know, down from the 36 and 34 ppg average they had in those respective seasons? I guess our secondary was getting shredded in these SB's and I just don't remember it?

     

    And yes I agree BB like 31 other GM's has flaws. Undeniable.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    Ya but your post clearly insinuates that you refuse to believe BB doesn't have a major flaw in this area that has been and could be the reason we lose out on another shot at a title run in Brady's twilight years.

    People need to accept the facts. The secondary stinks, has stunk for years and BB constantly misses when drafting in the secondary. Not saying other positions, just the secondary.

     

    It's been horrible and costly..




    Wow and here I was thinking the 15 point per game average we scored in the last 2 Super bowls was the reason we don't have lombardi #4 or #5. You know, down from the 36 and 34 ppg average they had in those respective seasons? I guess our secondary was getting shredded in these SB's and I just don't remember it?

     

    And yes I agree BB like 31 other GM's has flaws. Undeniable.




    You were thinking wrong. We lost the last 2 SBs because the D allowed Eli to walk all over  them at the last minute.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Wheatley 2.0




    Yup, so sad this organization didn't learn its lesson with a wasted 2nd rd pick on a Cb who was NEVER HEALTHY IN COLLEGE and later cut, and now Ras-I, who was NEVER HEALTHY is heading down the same path, sickening.

    I mean, its not like anybody on this board was BEGGING the Pats to pick an obvious need in LB with BOTH Akeem Akers and Brooks Reed on the board. YUCK!!!

    Pick one of those guys, spend some $ you obviously have on a known quality #1 CB in Asmougha and you probably win the Super Bowl last year. UGH!!

    Then in this years draft, if you picked Akers that means we are more of a 4-3, so we get Jones or if we got Reed that makes us more of a 3-4 so we take Hightower.  Then use the other pick on a G like Zeitler or a S like Harrison Barnes.

    Then Tavon Wilson woulda been sitting there for us in rd 3-4 or probably even rd 5. So you pluck Kendall Reyes, Jerel Worthy or Devon Still up to solidify the D-line. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheSalmon. Show TheSalmon's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    This was a borderline 1st round pick..

    Wow, another bust. BB does alot of things right but drafting, evaluating talent and coaching up players at corner is not one of them.

    In my opinion athough there are various components that make up a super bowl championship caliber team. In this new era of football, defenses should be built from the outside in as opposed to the traditional strong up the middle. Meaning corners, ends, Olb's and so on and so forth. Look no further then our next opponent, draft Jenkins, sign Finnegan, Draft Quinn who people don't realize is an absolute monster and Long. With that core I believe we are looking at a top ten defense this year.

    I can't believe how terrible this secondary is and how the front office allowed it to be this way. Bar none the achilles heel of this team for seemingly years now. Yes, we have other problems but none on this scale. Moving Dmac to safety is admitting he is a bust at corner. Arrington couldn't cover Wilfork on a double move and should NEVER see the field as anything more then a dime corner. I'm sorry but Gregory and Moore are Jag's in my opinion. Chung a run stuffer in the box type safety who is pretty one dimensional. Wilson and Dennard get passes being rooks.




    No. Has more to do with injuries at the safety position.  He was a starting corner at the beginning of the year (when chung and gregory weren't injured). 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheSalmon. Show TheSalmon's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    This was a borderline 1st round pick..

    Wow, another bust. BB does alot of things right but drafting, evaluating talent and coaching up players at corner is not one of them.

    In my opinion athough there are various components that make up a super bowl championship caliber team. In this new era of football, defenses should be built from the outside in as opposed to the traditional strong up the middle. Meaning corners, ends, Olb's and so on and so forth. Look no further then our next opponent, draft Jenkins, sign Finnegan, Draft Quinn who people don't realize is an absolute monster and Long. With that core I believe we are looking at a top ten defense this year.

    I can't believe how terrible this secondary is and how the front office allowed it to be this way. Bar none the achilles heel of this team for seemingly years now. Yes, we have other problems but none on this scale. Moving Dmac to safety is admitting he is a bust at corner. Arrington couldn't cover Wilfork on a double move and should NEVER see the field as anything more then a dime corner. I'm sorry but Gregory and Moore are Jag's in my opinion. Chung a run stuffer in the box type safety who is pretty one dimensional. Wilson and Dennard get passes being rooks.




     

    I agree. Arrington used to be servicable and now with Glass I out, I dont think we have any choice BUT to play him ...this is gonna get ugly unless we get a safety.  time to force Nick Collins back from his spinal injury . he would be better then what we have..  He is available... Maybe they contact him n the bye week



    Lmao, Glass-I.. that's classic.


    Sad cause dude could have had most potential on the team at corner. stature and speed reminds me of Antonio Cromartie who I think is in the top 3 corner's in the league right now.




     

    I see what they were trying to do. Basically get Ras and hope and he end up like Cro who dropped due to a knee injury. I dont think he really has a season ending injury though. More likely B.B. just doesnt like him which is worse IMO. Because even when healthy this year he was getting any burn and its not like we have Ty Law and Mike Haynes out there  playin in front of him. My question is WHY draft a CB who excels in man coverage and ONLY play zone?!?!  Time to get a REAL identity on defense besides just stuffing the run. Right now we have nothing to lose so send the house and blitz. Worse case scenario is we will be in the same position we are in. Most big plays given up in the league




    Not true. Watch the Belichick Breakdown on patriots.com. Last defensive play against the Jets, corners were in man coverage.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    "Dude no one is doubting what an amazing coach BB is or gm. The fact of the matter is everyone has flaws and BB can't draft corners or coach them up for that matter.

    One solid pro out of all the corner's he's drafted in his whole tenure. Asante Samuel. That is an undisputable undeniable fact whether you or anyone else would like to ignore it or not."

    Truth hurts. Ouch. Very true though. It's been a very damaging weak sport for BB, perhaps made worse by the lack of aggressive blitzing on many occasions - though that point is more debatable...

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from HOTBLITZ. Show HOTBLITZ's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    "Dude no one is doubting what an amazing coach BB is or gm. The fact of the matter is everyone has flaws and BB can't draft corners or coach them up for that matter.

    One solid pro out of all the corner's he's drafted in his whole tenure. Asante Samuel. That is an undisputable undeniable fact whether you or anyone else would like to ignore it or not."

    Truth hurts. Ouch. Very true though. It's been a very damaging weak sport for BB, perhaps made worse by the lack of aggressive blitzing on many occasions - though that point is more debatable...

     




    Ya, like I am sooooo tired of seeing 4man rush after 4man rush all damm game.

    Like the result could be any worse then what's currently happening.. Seriously This vanilla defensive playcalling is almost as bad as the secondary itself.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.


    Wow and here I was thinking the 15 point per game average we scored in the last 2 Super bowls was the reason we don't have lombardi #4 or #5. You know, down from the 36 and 34 ppg average they had in those respective seasons? I guess our secondary was getting shredded in these SB's and I just don't remember it?

     

    And yes I agree BB like 31 other GM's has flaws. Undeniable.

    [/QUOTE]


    Wrong, the reason we didn't win the Super Bowl was not because of our secondary, but because we didn't use our hall of fame running back more...Ben Jarvus Green Ellis. Bawahahahahahaha!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wolfwood. Show wolfwood's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to TheSalmon's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    In response to HOTBLITZ's comment:

    This was a borderline 1st round pick..

    Wow, another bust. BB does alot of things right but drafting, evaluating talent and coaching up players at corner is not one of them.

    In my opinion athough there are various components that make up a super bowl championship caliber team. In this new era of football, defenses should be built from the outside in as opposed to the traditional strong up the middle. Meaning corners, ends, Olb's and so on and so forth. Look no further then our next opponent, draft Jenkins, sign Finnegan, Draft Quinn who people don't realize is an absolute monster and Long. With that core I believe we are looking at a top ten defense this year.

    I can't believe how terrible this secondary is and how the front office allowed it to be this way. Bar none the achilles heel of this team for seemingly years now. Yes, we have other problems but none on this scale. Moving Dmac to safety is admitting he is a bust at corner. Arrington couldn't cover Wilfork on a double move and should NEVER see the field as anything more then a dime corner. I'm sorry but Gregory and Moore are Jag's in my opinion. Chung a run stuffer in the box type safety who is pretty one dimensional. Wilson and Dennard get passes being rooks.




     

    I agree. Arrington used to be servicable and now with Glass I out, I dont think we have any choice BUT to play him ...this is gonna get ugly unless we get a safety.  time to force Nick Collins back from his spinal injury . he would be better then what we have..  He is available... Maybe they contact him n the bye week



    Lmao, Glass-I.. that's classic.


    Sad cause dude could have had most potential on the team at corner. stature and speed reminds me of Antonio Cromartie who I think is in the top 3 corner's in the league right now.




     

    I see what they were trying to do. Basically get Ras and hope and he end up like Cro who dropped due to a knee injury. I dont think he really has a season ending injury though. More likely B.B. just doesnt like him which is worse IMO. Because even when healthy this year he was getting any burn and its not like we have Ty Law and Mike Haynes out there  playin in front of him. My question is WHY draft a CB who excels in man coverage and ONLY play zone?!?!  Time to get a REAL identity on defense besides just stuffing the run. Right now we have nothing to lose so send the house and blitz. Worse case scenario is we will be in the same position we are in. Most big plays given up in the league




    Not true. Watch the Belichick Breakdown on patriots.com. Last defensive play against the Jets, corners were in man coverage.




    i have mentioned it this team sucks at zone we actually play better  in man to man

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from murghkhor. Show murghkhor's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    If you taped the top 3 prospects at a need position to a wall and gave a blindfolded monkey a dart, could he miss any worse on draft day?




    Yes because in a passing league the top 3 prospects at corner are available in the 2nd round.  Belichick has missed on DBs, but let's not pretend he was choosing from amongst the top guys.



    Give me a break. He picked Tavon Wilson who was not in most people's Top 20 CB prospects, let alone top 3. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    If you taped the top 3 prospects at a need position to a wall and gave a blindfolded monkey a dart, could he miss any worse on draft day?




    Yes because in a passing league the top 3 prospects at corner are available in the 2nd round.  Belichick has missed on DBs, but let's not pretend he was choosing from amongst the top guys.



    I don't buy the argument we don't pick in the top 15 so we don't get as good talent....plenty of secondary players, wr's, defensive line and lbs taken in round 2-3 who have done well. I don't think anyone is expecting a HOF career from a second rounder, but you do expect them to be on the roster and a big contributor.

    As someone said, Chung, Ras are basically 1st round picks....33 and 34 respectively. You got to hit on those. Period. Same with maeriweather, butler , etc. 

    Bb has had more picks in rounds 1-3 since 2006 than any gm. If he was so concerned hecouldn't get good talent at 24, 33, 34, 40, etc, then he should have moved up, taken the talent instead of continuously moving down for value and quantity. That approacha beneficial sometimes has really works in this case. 

    I would interestEd to see where the pats rank in roster turnover...readsomewhere thatht hey only have 13 players on the team currently that made the trip to London in 2009. That is huge turnover...most of our aging defenders were replaced by then...so I wonder why? 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    Let's fact it. BB will never be enshrined in Canton for his drafting prowess.




    HA HA HA, yeah imagine the ignorance it takes a GM to draft players that don't work out. Especially the nerve to draft a player that gets injured UGHHH..... What a ninny.

    If BB could only be as good a GM as the other 31 guys in the league then and ONLY THEN would we be a winning team for the last 12 years.

    Oh well, lets just hope Matt Millen comes out of retirement sooner then later.




    You ever stop and think why we have won so much over the last 12 years? I can assure you that at least over the last five years it has had nothing to do with great drafting or free agent signings. And five years is an eternity in the NFL. It also has had nothing to do with "great salary cap management" or "value". It's been great coaching and outstanding quarterback play in my opinion. Belichick and Brady have won in spite of the way this team has been run.

    They did great drafting Gronk and Hernandez - they did - I think Brady deserves a little bit of credit in making them great players, but that's just me. They still would be solid without him I'm sure. I think Vollmer is another draft pick that if he was able to be completely over his back problem would be a great pick. I just don't think you can say that by drafting three good players over the span of 5 years when you had the most draft selections in the league is much of an accomplishment. Who know's? Maybe you can add Hightower and Jones into the equation, but I think that is a sign of them NOT doing what they usually had done in the past...the trading back and back and , into next year and the next and coming up with guys like Patrick Chung.

    The free agent signings of this team over the past 5 years have got to be the worst in the NFL. We have looked for "value" and guys that fit the "patriot way". WE have ended up with...Shawn Springs, Fred Taylor, Tully Banta Can't, Derrik Burgess, Ocho Cinco, Shaun Ellis, Albert Haynesworth, Leigh Bodden, Steven Gregory, Jonathan Fenene, Robert Gallery, Joseph Addai, Bobby Carpenter, Joey Galloway, Torry Holt, John Lynch...there are many many others that aren't even worth mentioning. In the past five years I cannot not think of one single impactful free agent signing, I can't, I'm sure there is one, but I can't think of it.

    This isn't how you "build" teams, it's how you destroy them. There are quite a few players that walked through our doors during free agency that we low balled and they went elsewhere...Red Bryant, Deshon Gholdson, Laron Landry. You put those three guys on our defense right now and no one is worrying about Sam Bradford.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Dowling to IR.... again.

    Good point mthurl...FA is the other missing piece. I agree that we haven't done well in FA less a few guys like waters, Lloyd, etc. the majority have not worked out. Again, this goes to the value discussion...I admit, BB has done a masterful job in the salary cap department, but one wonders if we could have made a few more splashes more in FA or the draft how great this team could be. 

    Heshould have paid for red Bryant and gholdson. Those would be difference makers. 

    My hope is we have a you g team overall, and they continue to evolve, that what we see now is what wE are not going to get in week 10, 12, etc. 

     

     
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