Draft 3

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    I think tall is 6'1 to 6'3"

    That is generally when they start turning into bruisers.

    Yes, Hobbs is short to the point where is actually limits his game. 5'11" is a good height.

    Although we are witnessing more mediocre receivers have some success just based on their height.
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    Living with #23. Mike Reiss has a new bit about the history of drafting at #23.

    He notes that NE selected Ty Law there, and selected Bruce Armstrong there. Not bad.

    Then he says it is hit or miss based on this list of the laste ten seasons.

  3. 2008: RB Rashard Mendenhall (Steelers)
  4. 2007: WR Dwayne Bowe (Chiefs)
  5. 2006: OG Davin Joseph (Buccaneers)
  6. 2005: CB Fabian Washington (Raiders)
  7. 2004: DT Marcus Tubbs (Seahawks)
  8. 2003: RB Willis McGahee (Bills)
  9. 2002: LB Napoleon Harris (Raiders)
  10. 2001: RB Deuce McAllister (Saints)
  11. 2000: FS Rashard Anderson (Panthers)
  12. 1999: CB Antoine Winfield (Bills)

Given that it is too early to say anything about Mendenhall. Haha, if we discount every selection the Raiders make and Marcus Tubbs' astounding string of injuries, then it isn't that bad.

Actually I take it as proof that competitive teams are all good at scouting.

But the thought of getting a CB likeAntoine Winfield or Ty Law in that spot is great. Heck NEw England could even use someone like Davin Joseph, which is partially why I wouldn't mind taking a C to convert to G there.

Nevertheless, it is an interesting tid bit.
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    I will personally slap Detroit if they don't take an OT. I really feel bad for those guys, and over-rating a college QB would be another huge miss-step.

    As far as Davis, Maualuga, we haveto wait for the draft. Pre-draft boards only tell part of the story. I could see possible scenarios where both linger around a bit.

    I do not have the NFL network this season, so I am relying on the internet to show me the workouts.
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    The combine will be interesting. Personally I'm curious to see what kind of time Vic "Macho" Harris runs. I like the tape on this kid...seems to have great instincts and intelligence AND he can HIT...might be a great 2nd round pick.

    Connor Barwin is another really interesting player. Almost reminds me of a young Vrabel...except he might be even more athletic AND he's even played some TE for Cincy if I'm not mistaken.

    I love Pat Chung and will be checking his #'s too.

    I've seen Larry English being taken anywhere from Chicago @ 18 to the top of the 2nd round...if he puts up ridiculous #'s he'll go earlier than 23 i predict.

    I'm curious about Laurenitis too.

    DJ Moore is the corner i'd take @ 23 if we were going to go that route...ha ha...i love bad puns.

    But I think @ 23 we will be looking to see who slips through the cracks. There's a good chance Pettigrew is there. Also, Max Unger could potentially be a surprise reach. BB understands the value of great Centers and Unger could plug in right away at any line spot in the meantime until Koppen is gone. We're going to need to xtra protect our playboy QB.

    A pick in the 30's would really be a perfect addition to the top of this draft. Here's to hoping we somehow milk the Cassel trade for something this year. Though I tend to agree with Faucet that the Pats will be patient and get the most value possible.

    Who's everybody else looking to evaluate at the combine?
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    oh, who has to the most to prove?

    I would have to say some small school kids.

    Laurinaitis needs to make up for missing the Senior Bowl. Michael Johnson and Maybin need to prove their weight.

    Herman Johnson should show up trim.

    I am looking for Javon Ringer, because he reminds me of a young Kevin Faulk.

    I am watching Juaquim Iglesias and Hakeem Nicks. I want to see what Jasper Brinkley can do to get him self in the mix.

    The most interesting thing for me will be watching the OLB position drills. Last year they really told us a lot. A ton of prospects were hurt by this. Moreover, some teams (cough, NJ) disregarded poor showings and landed lemmons.
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    Interview With Sean Smith
    I have the pleasure to begin my coverage of the 2009 NFL Combine interviewing Utah’s Sean Smith and Paul Kruger. Utah came off a very successful undefeated season beating Nick Saban’s Crimson Tide in the Sugar Bowl.
    Sean Smith is a talented DB from Pasadena, California. He redshirted his freshman year and has played in every game since. Coming out after playing three seasons as a Junior from Utah, Smith is a potential first rounder. He believes with his size, speed, and knowledge of offenses (he is a former WR), he will be a successful corner OR safety in the NFL and feels comfortable playing both. (Did I mention he was fast?)
    SEAN SMITH 6’3 210 CB UTAH
    HM: Describe your three years playing as a Ute?
    SS: I learned a lot from the older guys. We had a lot of seniors that year, I made a lot of good friends that when on to the NFL as well as the business world. I definitely learned lessons in life as well as on the football field. My last three years playing have been great. I enjoy nothing more than going out there in front of the fans, just putting on a show and performing for my teammates.
    HM: What has this off-season been like?
    SS: It’s been fun. We’re down in Florida training with some of the top athletes across the nation. Guys are ranked high in almost every position down there. It’s cool to be around a group of guys that are just as good as you competing for the same goal.
    HM: What is most important to you in your conditioning program?

    SS: Speed. That is definitely something that I think will open up some eyes. I think I’m the bigger DB coming out this year. A lot of guys want to know how fast I really am. Whether I’m going to play corner or safety, I think depends on my speed. That is definitely something I’m focusing on right now.
    HM: Do you feel comfortable playing corner OR safety in the NFL?
    SS: Most definitely. I actually wanted to play safety before I moved to corner (in college.) We were kinda short on corners and I was doing pretty good, obviously, at that position. I have no problem playing either or.
    HM: I’m assuming you’re planning on running the 40 to showcase your speed?
    SS: Most definitely. That is something, like I said, that I’m definitely worried about. I’m going to go out there and run as fast as I can.
    HM: Why are you coming out your junior year?
    SS: Why? It’s a couple things. First and foremost it’s my financial situation with my family. Even though I know probably if I stay another year I could probably get a little better, and who knows I could rank a little bit higher or not. I definitely want to help my mother out and two younger sisters. Also, I think there is a lack of size in coming out this year in the DB class. There is not a lot of big, tall, DBs out there that can run like I do. I definitely have an advantage in that sense.
    HM: Why do you have what it takes to play at the next level?
    SS: Besides the physical aspect, my size and speed combination, I have experience on both offense and defense. When you have a defensive back who knows what offenses like to attack what defenses and what they’re thinking, it makes them that bigger of a threat on the defensive side of the ball.
    HM: What areas do you need to improve?
    SS: Areas that need to improve? That is kind of a funny question. I’ve only been playing DB for two years so there are always things to learn. I’m pretty sure I can improve in almost every aspect. I’m never satisfied in one thing. I’m always looking to improve in every way.
    HM: What is your biggest weakness in your skill that you want to improve on?

    SS: My biggest weakness? I can’t really tell you if I have a weakness. We played a variety of defenses. I’m very experienced in man and in zone. I can’t tell you if I have a weakness or not.
    HM: So you think you can line up vs. Larry Fitzgerald? (laughing)
    SS: Oh, most definitely. (laughing)
    HM: Where will you be on draft day?
    SS: With my family. I have family in California, Texas and Georgia. Hopefully I can get them all together and sit down and watch the draft.
    HM: Who would you compare yourself to in the NFL?
    SS: Nnamdi Asomugha from the Raiders. He’s a tall corner like myself. He dominated this year. QBs are afraid to throw the ball his way. Between him and the play-making ability of (Antonio) Cromartie with his instincts when the ball is in the air.., I think I’m a combination of those two.
    HM: Where does your passion for football come from?

    SS: It’s just my competitive nature. I wasn’t looked at by the bigger schools. Going into the game with a chip on your shoulder, knowing that people have doubts about you. It’s no secret that I love playing in front of the fans and the media so I think that drives me as well.

    National Football Post Browns, Patriots, Jets

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/02/ matjasics-masterminds-combine-edition/

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    I think 5'11" is the perfect height for an NFL CB I think anything taller then that is too tall with the exception of the really exceptional type player like reevis. Sometimes a tall CB works out but useally only the really good tall CBs make it in teh NFL but if a guy was there at 23 and he was say 6 feet or 6'1" then i would go for it. I never said we wouldnt take a tall CB I just said BB prefers smaller CBs because they have more control over their bodys and are more fluint in tehir movemtns and they get to the ball faster. Hobbs is too short there is no denying that and im not saying we should take another short CB i think the perfect saize would be 5'11"

    What sucks is I like Alphonso Smith a lot but he is only 5'9" and thats just too small for a 1st round CB to me.
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    A Smith's height could be a liability, however, if he has excellent jumping ability he may be able to overcome his height issue. If you saw the NBA's dunk contest you know that some shorter players (see Nate Robinson)have some "serious ups" A Smith should be able to cover most NFL WR's. The elite tall WR's command help from a safety against any corner. If A Smith is there at #23, he could be a solid pick depending on who else may slide in the draft. A Smith will probably be getting a lot of interceptions until QB's learn to respect his coverage skills.
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    Why are we talking about height being a liability here? This is insane.

    In the last few pro-bowls there have been more CBs 5'11" and over than 5'10" and under . . . so maybe I am missing the point.

    Just evaluate the CB for how good he is then when everything is equalized you decide on physical characteristics.

    Sean Smith is much more of a candidate for FS than SS. There aren't that many corners who can actualyl hit. His biggest asset is his ability to go up for the ball and make a play on it. Frankly, I would take him over William Moore at FS.
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    Z what do you think about Alphonso Smith? some say he is the best cover corner in the draft but he is only 5'9" so I am on the ropes. To me 5'9" is too short to warrant a 1st round pick. What round is Chung perjected to go in?
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    I think Alphonso is great. I didn't watch a tremendous amount of Wake last season. But from what I have seen he is dynamite. Yeah, 5'9" is short, but a lot of scouts say he is flat out the best cover corner in college football. Some scouts also think that is D.J. Moore.

    I wouldn't knock anyone for height if they were great. Yes, Ellis Hobbs' height hurts him, but not as much as his lapses in concentration and his short recovery speed. If he were a better corner it wouldn't be an issue.

    Antoine Winfield is one of the best corners in the game and he is the same size, so I wouldn't rule him out for that.

    I would take him every day over Sean Smith at corner though.

    Chung is a guy on the bubble. Right now he is a high second. I think he is a low first, as he was very impressive at the Senior Bowl. A strong combine could bring him up higher. Like I said, I don't understand the lack of buzz about him. He is the same size/speed, played in the same conference, with less talent around him, as/than USC's Troy Polamalu who was selected mid first.

    I can't help but feel that if he went to a big time program he would be getting more attention.
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    Hitting isn't that easy to teach.

    You absolutely cannot teach a mean streak into people.

    Why do you think the much larger James Sanders plays the high point and Meriweather plays low?

    Because he is a more talented and meaner hitter.

    Second, whatever SS plays here has to be really smart. That is a key spot on the defense.
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

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    Depending on who else is on the board, I'd be very happy with Alphonso Smith. If we did take somebody like English instead, here is a CB to look at for the mid second round. He's this year's darkhorse, and has been compared to Rogers-Cromartie:

    Coye Francies, CB


    Positives: Good frame to add additional mass. ... Good straight-line speed. ... Loose hips to turn and run with receivers. ... Good agility. ... Can plant and drive out of his cuts. ... Good awareness in coverage. ... Rarely out of position. ... Has a closing burst to the ball. ... Long arms and active hands to slap away the pass. ... At least adequate hands for the interception. ... Good vertical jump and times his leaps well. ... Can high-point the ball and catch passes outside of his frame. ... Can track the ball over his shoulder. ... Active in run support. ... Fights around and through blocks and willing to stick his head into the pile. ... Willing to lower his shoulder into the ballcarrier. ... Can break down in space and make the open-field tackle. ... Generally reliable wrap-up technique. ... Good speed and vision as a kick returner. ... Averaged 22.4 yards per return at Oregon State. ... Strong weeks of practice at East-West Shrine Game and Senior Bowl. ... Voted a team co-captain and considered a good locker room presence, despite gun charge that led to suspension from Oregon State.

    Negatives: Lighter than scouts would like, especially considering his height. .. Especially thin in the hips and lower legs. ... Very physical in coverage, which could lead to penalties at the next level. ... Only 15 starts at the D-I level over his career.

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    Z im glad you would go after Alphonso Smith cause i thought we should draft him but thought he would be too small for people on the forum to get on board so its good to see other people liking this guy as much as I do. Smith is by far the best cover corner in the draft and is the most "pro ready" CB in teh draft from what i have read about him. I am very high on Chung, from everything i have heard and read about that kid he could be a really good SS at the next level.
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    Mayo and Mankins were also considered "reaches" when the Patriots drafted them, and that turned out ok. If BB really wants Chung, and thinks he will be gone before #47, he will take him at #23. That's the way he operates. I'm not saying it will definitely happen, but I would have no problem at all with Chung at #23.
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    Taking ASmith or Davis would be great pickups at 23. I don't think Davis will last to us, but if he does, he'd be a great pickup. Even if he can't handle the CB position, he'd be a great FS.
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    The only problem I see with that plan Kyle is that Merriwhether is more of a Free Saftey rather then a Strong Saftey so if we took Smith and he became a Free Saftey one of them would have to play out of position.
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    Has anyone heard any Matt Cassel rumors at all? I would like to see him end up on an NFC team, but if he does land in the AFC I hope it's with the Chiefs. With Scott Pioli running the ship it appears that he would be in good hands and playing in the AFC West there could be a possibility of the Chiefs turning it around rather quickly. Pioli and McDaniels will see each other twice a year and I know I'll be watching who they bring in through F/A and through the draft.

    Who do you guys see the Pats looking at in F/A the next coming weeks?

    "Florida TE Cornelius Ingram said Friday that he hopes to be drafted by the Patriots.

    Florida coach Urban Meyer has close ties to Pats coach Bill Belichick. With the Pats souring a bit on Ben Watson, they could be targeting a mid-round tight end in this year's draft."

    ESPN.com http://www.rotoworld.com/

    "Alabama OT Andre Smith announced Friday that he will not work out at all at this weekend's Combine.

    Still out of shape, Smith has less than a month to get ready for his March 11 Pro Day."


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    I think what you meant to say was the Pats FANS are souring a bit on Ben Watson not the team as I have never once heard coach Belichick or anyone from his staff anything bad about Watson. The fans on thsi forum might be calling for his head but no one the Pats has said anything about cutting or trading Watson.
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    Best possible situation for Pats:
    1) Malcolm Jenkins runs a 4.4-4.5 40 yd dash, decreasing his stock.
    2) Pats trade Cassel for a mid to late 1st round pick
    3) Pats take Jenkins with earliest pick
    4) Pats take Larry English or best available defensive player (not a corner) or OL with later 1st round pick
    5) Pats turn Jenkins into SS or FS depending on where they decide to play Meriweather

    I don't think they should draft a corner early because they already have young players at the position who show some potential. As far as offensive players, they should probably get a RB earlier than a TE, to have a young player waiting in the wings in case Maroney doesn't prove himself in 2009.
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    I didn't write that, it was the writer from rotoworld.com that put in his 2 cents about Watson. I like Watson and hope he re-signs with the Pats, but we'll have to wait and see if he wants big money in the F/A market.

    The Raiders are cleaning house this winter and released three more players today. Would any of you guys be interested in Wilson if he came at a reasonable price? I could see the Giants being interested in bringing Wilson back.

    "Raiders released S Gibril Wilson.

    Ronald Curry and Kalimba Edwards were also released. Similar to DeAngelo Hall, Wilson signed a lengthy deal just a year ago for $16 million guaranteed. Though he was productive with 129 tackles in 2008, Wilson was never worth what the Raiders paid. Now that they've spent big to keep Nnamdi Asomugha and Shane Lechler, Wilson was more of a luxury than a necessity. Fellow safety Michael Huff survives for now."

    Sacramento Bee


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    I like both of them as well.

    From what I have read, the Combine performance of TE James Casey was supposedly impressive. He went crazy on bench press.

    That could be huge because he is a mid to late day one prospect in some people's eyes, BUT he played in the spread at Rice. He could be the dynamic type of TE NE needs.

    Frankly, I would love a two TE split wide spread. Something with Watson, Rice, Moss and Welker, with one back. It would be devastating and pose serious matchup problems all around.
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    Arr. I am sick of people talking about QBs at the combine. What a worthless evaluation for a position that doesn't require any of the athleticism the combine entails.

    Anywho. Here is some buzz. Andre Smith didn'twork out. Jason Smith was very impressive and that might be the thing to have him jump Monroe.

    Oher was unimpressive on the bench, which could cause him to slip some. Although I am not sure it matters. Mankins only did 21 reps. but he was supposed to be a thrid round guard. LOL.

    Also guys, my boy Devin Moore had a private workout. Heis aKR/3rd Down back. Second day stuff. 4.41, 25 reps. Apparently every team had at least one rep there to watch him.
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