posted at 2/24/2009 3:02 PM EST
No prob. I actually saw him in the drills. It troubles me because he looked smoother than Cushing.
Maybe you are right and there is upside to him, including his frame. But I look at him and Barwin and think. . . they have the same experience, one had a better season, with less talent surrounding, and one is already 255 and fasterAND was impressive in the drills.
I guarantee that some teams are looking hard at Barwin for a late frist rounder. Could NE be the team??????????
posted at 2/24/2009 3:05 PM EST
Dude. I still like Max Unger AND Alex Mack as potential first round interior lineman.
Both are centers, but I think both could play anywhere on the line.
They are in the mix for me! I am NOT afraid to reach for an interior lineman with great pedigree. I almost baulked at Albert last season and he worked out, even as high as he went.
Especially if there is nothing else there. When in doubt, draft a really big guy!
That said, I want Meredith in the second. He really is my guy this season. I hope he doesn't creep up the board.
posted at 2/24/2009 3:07 PM EST
Here is a guy I want to see more from on pro-day. Knowshon Moreno.
In the back of my mind he is plan "Z" if there is a crazy run on defenders and somehow the RBs slip.
I hope to see better from him.
posted at 2/24/2009 3:21 PM EST
It's probally just espn stealing your story. Lord knows the arod story is worn out and they don't know where to turn with the RM injury.
posted at 2/24/2009 3:29 PM EST
Any read on McKillop or Veikune. I think Caldwell could work. Lined up across from Raji in the SR Bowl an done pretty well. Plays 3 inside spots atleast
posted at 2/24/2009 3:41 PM EST
Z, i agree with you on the interior linemen that are 1st rounders, from my perspective there arent any guards that say "look at me," of course I'm used to guards being smaller with speed to pull which isnt used as much in the pros. If i had to choose between Unger and Mack, i would choose unger because he is proven to be more versitile.
I also just looked up the stats on Meredith i do like him as a round two pick, the one thing that is screwing up my rankings is andre smith ballooning up, and i mean ballooning up, meaning he might not be a LT or a T at all but for now Meredith fits in the second round quite nicely.
posted at 2/24/2009 3:43 PM EST
posted at 2/24/2009 3:46 PM EST
Hey, I don't think everyone should be too worried about Matthews. It sounds like he's doing well at the combine. I think the key is his heart and his motor. I can remember when Teddy B. came out (Arizona ?) and people were saying he was too light and too slow. I think that experiment has worked out ok. And if he indeed does have an upside, what's to lose? OK Z, I posed a lousy question. Let me try again. IF the draft were tomorrow (just playing here), which two or three players do you think would be there at 23 that would make sense for the team and which one would you take? Also, you obviously like Chung and he's doing great at the combine. Where do you think he'll go?
posted at 2/24/2009 5:08 PM EST
Alright. A ton of players really hurt themselves this combine.
Gut reaction time?
I don't believe in reaching. If the prospect fits grab him.
I would put together a list of people available that I think Ne could use.
Barwin, Chung, Delmas, Mack, Unger, Meredith.
All of these cats are low first, high second. Grab the one you like the most:
He essentially had an identical combine to Vontae Davis, who supposedly earned himself some money. So I don't see the problem.Then hopefully NE can snag Barwin and Unger or Mathews or Meredith with KC's 34 and SD's 47.
IF they are lucky, maybe Cook is sitting pretty at 58? Maybe not? I think he made a great first round case running as fast as most WR's but weighing in 30 pounds heavier. I like him here, but not higher . . . he reminds me of Ben Watson for good or bad.
So best corner?
My nre guy is now Darius Butler. NE must have him. He completes the trio. 4.47. He is smooth. His height is adequate. Another second rounder for Ne. LOL.
In essence, I think there will be a collection of low-first high-second characters, so don't worry about trading down take the guy you like and move on. I like Chung. Provided no one like Cushing or Vontae Davis slips, I take him.
Hopefully, Sintim falls a bit and is there in the third, or Brinkley doesn't rise, because either of them could play ILB here if coached up and Ithink NE needs one of them as well.
This would have been English, but he looked more like a DE than a OLB.
posted at 2/24/2009 8:59 PM EST
If we could come away from this draft with both Chung and Barwin I would do flips.
posted at 2/25/2009 2:07 AM EST
[Quote]If we could come away from this draft with both Chung and Barwin I would do flips.[/Quote]
I'm with you Pye!
Here's a question...if the Pats used 23 for Barwin, what would it take (on top of #47) to move up to get Chung?
Also, anyone know the 40 times of Rashad Johnson and Victor Harris yesterday?
posted at 2/25/2009 2:44 AM EST
Victor Harris was close to 4.6 and Rashad Johnson was the low4.5' I think. Neither of them helped themselves.
posted at 2/25/2009 3:12 AM EST
Except that everyone else liked Maybin too. And he will be gone by #23.
I think the problem here is that people keep assuming a player they like will be there. Maybin, Cushing, etc, etc.
In the past the commong ground was CBs. But at thsi point I'm not sure
taht Darius Butler isn't the second best pure corner in the draft, with
Smith and Moore dropping.
Chung is prospect ranked (an abstract ranking that places total value
not where they will go) at 87 via couts inc. That makes him #35 because
there are two players above him in Sintim at 88 (which I disagree
about) and Delmas at 89 which I disagree about.
The players at 90 which is the first round threshhold, are these
Freeman, McCoy, Kruger, Mack, A. Smith, Jerry, Laurinaitis, Matthews
Accept for Harvin, who has earned himself a top 20 selection IMO, not
one of those players is as good a prospect as Chung, as Delmas, as
Butler, as even Barwin, I could throw Cook in there after the
elite-elite combine, and the only close one is Mack who I mentioned.
Here is my top 22, supposing everyone of those cats is gone. . . who do you think is worthy of a #23????? Hard and fast, no trading up, no trading down. These players are gone as I ranked em', and you cannot move.
1.) Aaron Curry
2.) B.J. Raji
3.) Jason Smith
4.) Eugene Monroe
5.) Michael Crabtree
6.) Andre Smith
7.) Matthew Stafford
8.) Vontae Davis
9.) Aaron Maybin
10.) Brandon Pettigrew
11.) Jeremy Maclin
12.) Brian Orakpo
13.) Brian Cushing
14.) Malcolm Jenkins
15.) Percy Harvin
16.) Knowshon Moreno* based on a better pro day 40.
17.) Michael Oher
18.) Mark Sanchez
19.) Rey Maualuga
20.) Tyson Jackson
21.) Everette Brown
22.) Chris Wells
Like I said, the chaff and the wheat. Pro-day could ressurect some players, but do you want to spend #23 on slow DE's who don't look like LBs. How about 5'9" corners with marginal speed? How about underized players with one season of experience in All-star defenses?
Or a safety that put up tremendous numbers in college, and put up a monster combine, and is a team leader? Players who are the best hitters in the draft pound for pound? Players with excellent KR experience and willing special teams contributors? IMO, it is him or Delmas in this situation. I like Chung, maybe Ne likes Delmas? Maybe they like Matthews? I don't. I see Connor Barwin as a better prospect, he is sized correctly, almost as fast, stronger, jumps higher, they both looked great in the drills. But Connor also has more football experience. Then there is Mack and Unger.
I would have thought that Mayo at #10 would have made everyone rethink how the draft works, when I was saying the same thing all last season. Throw those boards out, because they mean diddly when it comes to getting the guy you like. That was the question I had. And I answered it.
posted at 2/25/2009 3:27 AM EST
[/Quote]RE Percy Harvin: I think he could be the heir apparent to K Faulk & Faulk has been an important part of every one of the Pats' Championships & I don't think that it was a coincidence that the Pats lost to the Giants after Faulk left the game with an injury. He's been their best player for short yardage screen passes against blitzing defenses. If not Harvin, I think we'l see another shifty fast pass catchin versatile RB/receiver I know that you're hoping for Rey M to be picked by the Pats. The best comparison that you've made was Ted Johnson at LB (a great run stuffer) Mayo is the next Bruschi & he's got the quickness to make plays all over the field. The Pats still need a pass rushing Willie McGinnest type LB. If Rey M slides & the Pats go that route they still will also need help at the DB position(s).
posted at 2/25/2009 3:34 AM EST
Except Harvin should be off the board by #23.
posted at 2/25/2009 3:50 AM EST
Probably so, however, defense wins championships & the Pats' first pick will probably be a good addition to the defense.
posted at 2/25/2009 4:00 AM EST
I think Devin Moore could be just as good with time. He is just as fast and about the same size. Early on day two.
posted at 2/25/2009 7:41 AM EST
Ush, that's the question. I'd say the most likely scenario that would lead to drafting both Chung and Barwin would be if we trade Cassel to KC for #34. Then, I believe you could interchange the two between #23 and #34, and with BB's shrewdness we may be able to move down from #23 to somewhere in the #27-32 range and still get those two guys, along with an extra pick.
If the KC trade doesn't happen, those two guys could still end up here with a trade of Cassel to a different team, but that seems less likely now. I highly doubt either would be available at #47, so some sort of trade would be necessary. Cross your fingers!
posted at 2/25/2009 8:10 AM EST
I don't know Faucet.
First, Heyward-Bey should be in there. I will change the board up to reflect his rise after a "sick" combine.
I liked the question and answered it honestly with the info I have at hand. Even Reiss talked about getting a Safety first in the article "safety first." It beats the heck out me just hoping that Vernon Davis or Rey Maualuga falls into my lap? That would be a boring post.
I liked English when he weighed 254. But now he looks a bit heavy. I think that exacerbates questions about his stiffness in space and willingness to play 3-4 OLB.
It is the reverse of last season when Long showed up 20!!! pounds lighter than he played in college from 282 to 262, and the perception of what he would do as a pro shifted quickly. All of a sudden a 282 pound guy that people like Kiper at al thought could put on weight to play DT or Heavy End ends up being something different. And ends up working out with linebackers.
Sintim is a solid prospect, and I like him even from an ILB perspective. But it doesn't help that people questioned his burst and he didn't show that in Indy. So maybe he is falling back?
I am just performing the same ritual we did last year, assuming no trades. I think the concensus pick we came up with then (stuck at seven) was DRC, although I also liked Talib and Rivers (who you sold me on). Those players were "reaches" with Rivers mocked in the low 20's, DRC, mocked in the mid twenties, and people beating me up over Talib as a second rounder, who like DRC netted 4 picks, and they were both awesome. Both Talib and DRC went in the 15-20 bracket ahead of where people had em, and even McKelvin had a great season doing what he does KR TD and a couple picks.
In retrospect, most of the picks we liked up there were good, and I
don't think anyone would have been disappointed, OK if Rivers breaks
his leg they might be.
My point is, if reaching twenty "mock" spots to get DRC or 10-15 to get Rivers wouldn't have been bad, what is the issue if I don't like the surrounding talent this year either and think "reaching" down 10-15 spots for a safety isn't a bad idea? Especially considering the risk/reward is much more favorable at #23 than at #7.
So mabe I end up being wrong, but I think this DB has potential to be a bonafide star, and is mature enough to start right away. He answeres the biggest need on defense. And with the possibility of a "hanshake" #34 looming, I don't think it matter what place you start taking most of these kids. My fear would be losing him.
I don't see him going higher than #23. But between there and #34 at least two teams select that could use a safety. And between there and #47 a host of teams select, and he will be gone. And none of the remaining players (at this point) give me that "total package" kind of feel like I got from Rivers, Talib, DRC, and later Mayo in last season's draft.
So I am performing the same ritual. Just go where there is a hole in the team, and this year it is at safety and last year it was CB and ILB, and fill it with the most promising player available be it Delmas or Chung.
Lets see what pro day brings. Last years combine was the final word before interviews came in and we all got a sniff of the players they were looking at. That is when Mayo became a possibility.
So lets let it unfold, and see what the pro days bring, and see who they start visiting, and working out.
Who they start working out will tell us more than all of the internet rankings will.
posted at 2/25/2009 8:46 AM EST
Kiss of death? Last season Don Banks put Mayo on the map predicting NE would trade to #12 to get him.
He now has Ne taking JL. Even after that workout this kid has fans that refuse to give up on his high football intelligence.
Maybe with a better pro-day that selection solidifies?
posted at 2/25/2009 11:08 AM EST
If you are worried about CB why not take Darius Butler at #23?
Barwin at #47 and Chung at #34?
Personally, I think Butler might have earned himself a top spot with that impressive vertical and 40 time.
If we are stuck at #58 with Cb I take the most versatile player available.
But you need to adjust the board accordingly based on the combine.
I think Smith's workout keeps him from freefall, even though his timing was a lackluster 4.5, he had that smoothness. So top of the second.
Moore was hammered. He was slow, and he was stiff. I see him crashing right now.
Sean Smith is rising. He wasn't as fast as people though but he was really smooth. So top of the second.
Chung improved his chances. I don't think Delmas hurt himself, but he is standing pat at this point.
Jenkins is going to tumble. He didn't look top-ten at all.
Vontae looked great.
The bottom line is that improving the CB position might not be easy this draft. Just based on how much worse these players looked on that day. None of them look like athletes.
So if corner is your thing, taking Butler at #23 is the best choice IMO. Otherwise I don't think you get a shot.
posted at 2/25/2009 11:18 AM EST
How about this?
#47 Delmas/Smith/Chung (whichever is available)
#58 Jamon Meredith
Oh, and Cook won't be there in the third. Not after his career, and that world beating workout.
posted at 2/25/2009 1:39 PM EST
I like what you two have presented so far and think there's a chance the Pats take Unger/Mack in the 2nd round. I'm going to wait on my 3 2nd Rnd Mock Draft until the Pats trade Cassel. I think another name worth mentioning is Robert Ayers DE from Tenn. Vols, IMHO he could be a surprise pick for the Pats in the 2nd and maybe 1st.
It's been pretty quiet in NE and I'm curious if they offered Woods an official 2nd round tender or not.
"Dr. James Andrews said Wednesday that he believes Tom Brady's chances are "good" for a full recovery from ACL and MCL reconstruction.
We're not sure how Andrews knows this. Maybe he looked at some X-rays of Brady's knee because Andrews did not perform the surgery. Dr. Neal S. ElAttrache did. It is a good sign that Andrews is putting his name on the line to say this, though, and most signs point to Brady being ready for Week 1."
Associated Press http://www.rotoworld.com/
posted at 2/25/2009 2:54 PM EST
I say we trade Cassel for a 2nd and a 3rd,we also give a 4th no TG, too much $$$
#23 DE/OLB Larry English
#34 CB/S Sean Smith
#47 SS Patrick Chung
#58 TE Jared Cook
#67 MLB Derry Beckwith
#89 OT Fenuki Tupoui
#3C HB Javon Ringer
posted at 2/25/2009 3:02 PM EST
Midnight Friday morning. No one in the NE media is expecting the Pats to be players in the rush part of F/A. All is quiet on the Pats front and I'm curious if there will be any big splash for a guy like D. Hall or someone along those lines.