posted at 2/19/2009 9:59 AM ESTMVP, I agree.
There are a number of ways this draft can play out, and the Pats have a number of needs.
BPA does not exist, but when you have a ton of needs it can broaden the pool.
Anyhow, this draft is so durned deep, and really lacks the blockbuster top-tier kids, so I cannot see any player worth moving up for really.
I think if you are in the market for a CB maybe Jenkins?
Crabtree possibly if you need a franchise WR?
But is Orakpo that much better than English? Or Davis that much better than Smith?
Incidentally, James Laraunitis has claimed that he can put on 15lbs in two weeks if necessary to play 3-4. That sounds really quick. But it also sounds kind of fun. Just go on an eating expedition.
I would start at one of thoe steakhouses that sell the 72 oz challenge steaks, and if you finish it is free. LOL.
But if he shows up to the combine weighing close to that figure it will be interesting.
posted at 2/19/2009 10:09 AM ESTWho are we watching at the combine?
I want to see what Maybin weighs in at.
I want to see Maybin and Brown and English stand.
I want to see how fast these corners and safeties are.
posted at 2/19/2009 11:26 AM ESTIt would be nice to have a taller CB to put on the taller receivers. I might be pretty thrilled to land Davis, if he can put together a convincing interview and satisfy some fundamental doubts. If he didn't have attitude/character question marks, they might be talking about him as the best CB prospect in years, and better than Jenkins.
I just hope the Patriot ethos survives with the new generation after the icons gradually retire.
Davis vs. Moss in practice would almost be must see.
posted at 2/19/2009 11:32 AM ESTZ, I meant to post this yesterday. Here's a recent photo of Maybin with his shirt off, and a discussion about it:
I'd say he's about the 248 he claims to be, or within a few pounds of that.
Still looks a little skinny, especially compared to Cushing.
I'm still very intrugued, and have watched some sweet highlights on youtube under the name Penn St defense, and he's number 59 I believe.
I've come around to agreeing with you that English is the better prospect, but if Maybin looks like he can cover like a madman, I'll be right back on the fence. And his arms are crazy long.
What a jump off the snap this guy gets, though he could get swallowed up by tackles at the next level.
Very young, very promising, slightly risky.
posted at 2/19/2009 11:42 AM ESTMaybin's best asset is his speed.
There are rumors that he is going to post Dwight Freeney typr numbers. If he clocks in the 4.4 range AND weighs 250, he will be gone before NE gets him Ithink. Even though he is a soph.
posted at 2/19/2009 12:07 PM ESTwhat makes you think a rookie CB like Davis could stand toe to toe with Randy Moss? I know you like the guy but i think sometimes we all get a little ahead of ourselves. Like for example if we need a starting CB just because you go out and draft a guy that maybe ONE DAY can be a starting CB that wont solve the problem. Just cause you draft a guy doesnt mean that fills the need. Guys like Mayo who can start from day one are hard to find for this system, the Pats have a system that even vets cant get their heads around so a rookie is not going to come in and save the franchise.
posted at 2/19/2009 12:32 PM ESTI'm not saying Davis would immediately be able to hang with Moss every play. I think YOU got a little ahead of yourself there:)
In terms of pure talent, Davis is just about all you could ask for. We need a CB, don't have a tall one with tackling skills, and davis is the best talent at CB in the draft. Yes he is raw, and how ready his is to contribute next year remains an unanswered question. He's probably not as ready as a senior like Smith. But, picking at 23 and needing a CB, I don't think we could complain if the most talented CB in the draft was available to us.
That's all. And if he looked bad in the interview, I don't think we would or should take him, like I implied.
posted at 2/19/2009 12:45 PM ESTI suppose Maybin could run a 4.4, but i think I heard he's been running 4.6s. I'll go out on a limb and guess he runs a 4.52. What's your guess, just for fun? All welcome to throw out a number.
One note about Michael Johnson, who could post some spectacular numbers as well, and could eventually be a 280 pound speed rusher for us - He was a top flight TE in high school, ranked #7 in the country. That would be some very exciting double duty to watch him sky for the ball ala Gresham.
If only he could convince that he can defend the run.
posted at 2/19/2009 12:52 PM ESTThe thing is Bill Belichick does not like to draft tall corners. Last year both Belichick and Scott Pioli came out and explained that the reason we never take tall corner back is they feel taller guys are less fluint in their movement. The Pats system for CBs is all about getting to the ball and instincts and they feel that taller guys have a harder time turning and getting to the ball. I used to say the same thing, that I wanted a tall CB but once i heard them say how smaller CBs fit better in the Pats system i bought into it. So i dont mind that we have a lot of shorter CBs cause thats the way Belichick wants it. I would be happy if we did get a 6 foot tall CB but i get why they dont draft them. Taller guys dont turn their hips as fast as smaller guys and thats a big deal to Belichick.
posted at 2/19/2009 12:55 PM ESTThey never said they would not draft a tall corner.
They said the obvious, that most of the small corners have better control. The tall corners with control rank absurdly high.
The reality is that when they tend to draft corners the best ones remaining are short because height is typically an asset at that position.
It means they value fundamental mechanics over raw physical stature. That is ano brainer if you have been watching the way they have drafted for this team at most positions.
posted at 2/19/2009 12:57 PM ESTm
posted at 2/19/2009 12:59 PM ESTI didnt say they said they wouldnt draft a tall corner I said they dont like to draft taller corners. they would rather get the shorter CBs with better movement and control. I am sure if a tall CB was there at 23 and he met Belichicks expectations then yes we would take him i didnt mean to sound like we wouldnt i just meant to say in the Pats system BB likes to draft shorter CBs with more control over their bodys and their movement.
posted at 2/19/2009 1:05 PM ESTYes, but all things being equal (and they never are) they would take the taller corner.
But none of the corners in the draft can cover like Alphonso Smith, for instance. So it isn't equal. It is a situation where they could take a corner like Sean Smith, who is big and fast, but has flawed technique, or a guy like Alphonso Smith, who is labelled as too short, but is the best playmaker in the corner draft, they take Alphonso.
Bb loooks at the intelligence of the player, and the backpedal-turn-run numbers (an arcane stat that times how quickly a corner can pivot out of a backpedal to cover a receiver) which is measured on both sides.
Almost every corner they have drafted have very high numbers for this grade. I think Wheatley was only topped by Cromartie IIRC.
Itis an important number because it is an actual football drill, as opposed to some other tasks like bench press that do no correalate well to real football.
posted at 2/19/2009 1:19 PM ESTVontae Davis, from NFL.com
Positives: Rare combination of size and pure athleticism. Chiseled frame. Excellent straight-line speed. Loose hips to turn and run. Instinctive defender who recognizes the action when playing off-man or zone and closes downhill. Rare aggression in run support. Physical tackler with legitimate explosive hitting ability. Can separate the ball from the ball-carrier. Times his blitzes well and can close when the opportunity presents itself. Good special teams performer with punt and kick return experience. Blocked two kicks in 2007. May boast unmatched upside at this position.
Negatives: Not a natural playmaker. Inconsistent hands for the interception. Doesn't fight through blocks with the physicality in which he comes up to tackle. Best in off-man and zone coverage where he can watch the action, plant and drive to the ball. Faster in shorts than on the field. Peeks back at the quarterback and savvy route-runners can beat him with double moves. Was benched in 2008 by coach Ron Zook, creating questions about his work ethic. Concerns that Vontae, like his brother, Vernon Davis, may lack the drive to turn his unique athleticism into NFL success.
posted at 2/19/2009 1:22 PM ESTIf we did have a freak tackler like Davis as a CB, it might increase the ability to draft/acquire a strong safety who has more range than hitting power.
posted at 2/19/2009 1:41 PM ESTI think we will see at least one CB taken maybe two linebacker be it OLB or ILB I think we will take a Saftey early sometime in the first 3 rounds and i think we will take a few O linemen and D linemen. I think the only offensive draft pick will be O linemen other then that its all D baby!
posted at 2/19/2009 1:47 PM ESTAnd Barwin or Michael Johnson in the 2nd might give us an extra TE for depth.
posted at 2/19/2009 1:55 PM ESTYeah, Davis making it to 23 would be intersting. He is so highly rated. Although I tend to shy away from Big-Ten corners because it isn't a huge passing conference.
Like I said, one of the higher rated guys will fall, and NE will have a crack at top 15-20 talent. It is just a matter of which one.
I hope it isn't a RB, but it might be.
posted at 2/19/2009 2:07 PM ESTHe probably won't make it to 23. All the physical freaks are going to see their stock rise after the combine.
posted at 2/19/2009 2:09 PM ESTQBs
Stephen McGee/Texas A&M
Nate Davis/Ball State
If the Pats do trade Cassel, McGee could be an option come the 5th or 6th round IMHO
*Devin Moore/Wyoming(wasn't invited)
With the uncertainty of Maroney and some of the other backs over the age of 30, this is a real nice RB class to find a future back.
A dying breed in the NFL not sure the Pats will look to draft a FB, but if they were to these two guys would be a nice choice in the later rounds.
Ramses Barden/Cal Poly
If the Pats don't re-sign Gaffney they could look to the draft and will have a nice group to select from IMHO. Depending on what happens in F/A they could wait to take a WR in the 4th or 5th. I really like Heyward-Bey, but I don't see the Pats taking him in the 1st round, so a guy like Williams or Iglesias could be had in the 2nd round if Gaffney doesn't re-sign.
Shawn Nelson/Southern Miss
We all like Pettigrew on this board and think he would be a great fit for the Pats, but he will probally be drafted by Buffalo or Philly before the Pats are on the clock. With a solid combine Shawn Nelson would be a nice addition to the Pats O, but he could end up rising up teams draft boards like last years Dustin Keller.
Michael Oher/Ole Miss
Never to early to look for future replacements for the Pats OL. If a guy like Britton or Oher fell to the Pats at #23 they might think about grabbing them or look for help later on in the draft.
Never to early to look for future replacements for the Pats OL.
Never to early to look for future replacements for the Pats OL. All three of these guys IMHO could be solid picks for the Pats.
*Everette Pedescleaux/Northen Iowa(Hot Prospect on the rise/Not Invited)
With Green and Seymour's contract up next season the Pats could be looking to add some depth to their D-line. Tyson Jackson looks like he could be on the Pats radar come draft day and I also like Everette Pedescleaux from Northern Iowa as a guy the Pats could have intrest in.
Lets hope the Pats give Wilfork an extension for all the hard work the guy has given to the Pats over the years. The Pats probally won't even get a sniff out of B.J. Raji because he'll be off the boards when the Pats are on the clock. So that leaves the Pats with a guy like Ron Brace as a nice back-up to Wilfork and is probally going to be coming off the board either in the 2nd or 3rd round IMHO.
The OLB group is fairly deep this year and lets hope the Pats are looking for future replacements at this position. I like all the guys listed except for Cushing because of all the steroid rumors that are floating around about him. Sintim and English are the two guys that I'd like to see the Pats take at #23 if they decide to go OLB in the 1st round. Clay Matthews could be a guy that BB likes because Clay has NFL bloodlines through his dad(Clay Matthews Sr.) and uncle(Bruce Matthews). Not to mention that he was a walk on freshman at USC and a special team phenom as well before becomming a starter his Sr. year. I would love to get this kid in the 2nd round, but teams like the Chiefs and Browns will probally take him in the early part of the 2nd round. Connor Barwin is another guy I'll be watching and I'm curious if the Pats will have any intrest in him at all.
James Laurinaitis/OSU Animal Jr.
I'd love for the Pats to land Rey, but it is very unlikely that he would get by the Chargers. Jasper Brinkley would be a nice addition for the Pats. If he has a solid combine I wonder what round he will project in?
Alphonso Smith/Wake Forest
Coye Francies/San Jose St.
Sean Smith is a guy I'm curious about and will be watching how he does in the combine and how he rates to some of the other top guys. Pretty deep class here and won't be suprised to see the Pats take a couple of CBs if they aren't successful in F/A.
Louis Delmas/Western Michigan
Chip Vaughn/Wake Forest
Dominique Johnson/Jackson St
This is were I hope the Pats can get some good picks for Cassel, so they can move up a few spots and grab Patrick Chung without any problems. With William Moore dropping fast I'm curious if a guy like Rashaad Johnson or Louis Delmas wil be gone before Moore is taking. The Pats need to address this position badly and I hope Rodney does return for one more year to teach who ever the Pats draft how to play the position with a mean streak.
posted at 2/19/2009 5:02 PM EST
SI's Don Bank's is convinced the Lions will not take a QB with the #1 pick. Here's the link.
"SI's Don Banks is convinced that the Lions will not draft a quarterback with the No. 1 overall pick.
Banks points to the Lions' many needs, "the boom-bust factor at the top of the draft," and coach Jim Schwartz's preference for building the team with strong offensive and defensive lines. We would add that there isn't a quarterback worth selecting No. 1 overall."
posted at 2/19/2009 5:07 PM ESTJdc, that was a very good post, as your reference to Sean Smith, what position and round he goes in depends on his timed speed, if he runs fast enough 2nd round CB (maybe 3rd i dont really know) but there have been alot of questions about his speed, and if he doesnt run fast enough, he will be a free saftey
posted at 2/19/2009 5:34 PM EST~ jdc
I know if I'm Detroit I use that first pick on an OT. None of the QBs are top ten material IMHO. My thinking is Sanchez will be there at their next pick if they want to draft a QB. Personally, they need to go after Cassel with that pick. It would be well worth it. Especially the way the Pats will wait for future picks.
Let's face it. Detroit needs just about everything. The first thing you fix is the trenches. It doesn't make any sense to trade for Cassel if you can't protect him and right now Detroit can't. That OL needs a lot of help.
posted at 2/19/2009 5:42 PM ESTFrom what I've read about Sanchez & saw during a few games is that he had difficulty reading college defenses & that's why he had 10 interceptions during his season. Reading defenses wont get easier in the NFL. Just like every other year teams will over spend on college QB's. Stafford may be worth it although he's been more inconsistent then what I expected.
posted at 2/19/2009 6:48 PM ESTI would not guarantee NE would even send Cassel to Detroit.
They may. But they may also take less to put him in situation where he and his agent are comfortable.