Draft 3

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Draft 3

    Oher's stock is going to drop pretty good. He did not do well. I question the maturity of the tackles in general. It seems a lot of mistakes are being made early in their carrers. They may go off and have football carrers but they sure did hurt themselves in the pocketbook.

    Max Unger would be a fine addition to the Pats. Started the year off at LT because of injuries and has played both guard positions as well as center. The kind of versatility the Pats just drool over. He's helped himself yesterday. No other player in the draft is as diverse as this guy. Great football name to boot!

    Ebin Britton looked good.

    TEs Casey, Cook and Nelson looked real good. The TE class as a whole helped themselves out yesterday.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    The NFL network guys at the desk yesterday. Talked about the TE's looking more like track runners than blocker's.I hope that this puts Nic Harris on our radar. He covered very well at the SR Bowl pratice. Which is some of the same guys that are at the combine.We all know the way BB likes to move guys around so both safety's will need to play both high and low.

    That is if we can't get a shot at Chung.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

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    Since the Colts got the rule changes in for the passing game a change had to come to the safety position. It's nice to have that hard hitter for the running game but now you can't touch the receiver and the TEs are more veritcal. Plus the Pats play zone a lot. You're looking for guys who fly to the ball.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    Hmmm.

    Well he got Eugene Wilson and Rodney Harrison at about the same time more or less. And hasn't drafted any safties since Meriweather and Sanders.

    So if you mean that by putting Meriweather in SS he got a tweener I certainly agree. It was my case for grabbing Charles Godfey last season in the second round. But BB always had a traditional 220+ SS before that.

    I think last year was the coming out party for the CB convert, as quite a few of them went early. I still think they should have taken Godfrey instead of old crystal wrist Wheatley. We were all shocked they passed on him, and he just had a VERY promsing rookie season as a CB -- /> FS convert.

    He is that size that I really like 5'11" 210-ish. I wish Meriweather could stack on a couple pounds to get there.

    It actually softens your draft positions because CBs that player better facing the QB can be a steal if you think they project well as a FS.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    Ohyes,

    There are a number of prospects who can play high or low, and there are a couple corners in the draft who would be able to do that.

    Even outside of Jenkins.

    Off the bat, Illini Vontae Davis is worth mentioning. He is a corner, but has the size 6'0 210, to be a presence at any position. He also is a terrific hitter. Chung himself is really sized out as a tweener and is likely hoping that his above average coverage skills and excellent hitting carry him over. I don't think he will have any problem being moved.

    The prospect of moving to FS has to be a good thing for on the bubble guys like Sean Smith, who look awkward as CBs, but have the straight line speed and height and just enough coverage ability to play FS. Although he really is a poor tackler, which makes you wonder if he would be able to play SS.

    I think Nic Harris is heading in the opposite direction. When you have SS trending down in size like Polomalu and Bob Sanders, getting the LB/S tweener is taking a step back.

    Garytx,

    I think you are kind of correct. But the stock has been ridiculously high on giant corners, I think the colts rule really effected how the game is played.

    The diminution of the safety position is only partially related. The leauge has trended toward passing, and more teams spread the field. TEs are becoming more athletic and teams are seeing more talented slot guys. As a result the traditional lumbering beast like Rodney Harrison is getting tougher to field, as they can be outrun.

    You are seeing more Polomalu (5'11" 207) and Sanders 5'8" 208) and Laron Landry (6' 205) and even teh 205 lb 5'11" Charles Godfrey from last season.

    Evidence for how the game has changed? Harrison ran a 4.67 at the combine IIRC (it was a decade ago).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Draft 3

    Good points Gary
    I just wish we had Db's that would challange the catch or a safety looking to light someone up before their feet hit the ground. We've used bend but don't break till it's broke. J.Sanders isn't enough insurance to even make a break on a ball.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    Z

    I think Nic Harris is heading in the opposite direction. When you have SS trending down in size like Polomalu and Bob Sanders, getting the LB/S tweener is taking a step back.


    You are seeing more Polomalu (5'11" 207) and Sanders 5'8" 208) and Laron Landry (6' 205) and even teh 205 lb 5'11" Charles Godfrey from last season.


    You lost me?
    Did these teams take a step back?
    You have to admit we are missing the knock your head off hitter coming down hill (deep middle)or over to the sides to help out the Db's. We can't even cover the deep middle right now. 3rd and long almost seems like a give-me most of the time. I have no faith when the Wr's or TE's are released to the deep safety that anything but a catch then maybe a tackle will be made.This is why Rodney on Witten and Clark is so incredible.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

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    These days that hitter needs to be able to cover TE's who keep getting faster and faster. If they can't keep up, they can't hit anybody.

    Vontae Davis is a great example of a guy who could cover AND lay the lumber. Nic Harris is 230 lbs.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    No. I am saying that the knock on Harris is that he cannot cover well enough and is too large.

    It is precisely the fact ath teams are looking for SS's who can cover that is forcing him to take reps at LBer.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    I understand what you guys are saying now. Don't necessarily agree. Nic was step for step with the guys they had him on. I can't say I know they were full speed or elite players though.

    I know Chung has also been labeled as a
    "in the box" safety. Does that mean he can't cover the fast TE's either.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    Ian Johnson just burnt the hair off the 40 Like a 4.3/ . Check him out at the link above if you have'nt. so much for the under the radar.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bunchofpixels. Show bunchofpixels's posts

    Draft 3

    Polomalu and Sanders seem to always be injured. Their smaller size probably has something to do with it. Thats not to say I wouldnt want them in a Pats uniform.

    The Patriots havent had much luck with picks made in the 2nd round since they took Branch in 2002, so I hope the trend changes this year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

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    "I know Chung has also been labeled as a "in the box" safety. Does that mean he can't cover the fast TE's either."

    No, it doesn't mean that. The game tape and combine will determine that, as it will for every player on an individual basis.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

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    BB's new stated philosophy actually dovetails better with the available crop of safeties available in the 2nd/3rd rounds. There are many more lighter, faster safeties/oversized CBs than there are thumpers like Chung.

    Not to say BB wouldn't take Chung, who seems to have decent feet.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    The highlite reel on Chung shows him mostly coming down from the saftey spot toward the line blowing up players with big hits. it's on you tube somewhere. i can't remember him running step for step with anyone and breaking up a pass or getting a int while covering aTE.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    I have seen both players extensively. Not just highlights.

    I don't know why this Harris vs Chung thing is happening. One is a high second round safety prospect, and the other is a second day 4-3 OLB prospect who might get looked at as a situational safety. They are completely different.

    And what you find on google never tells the story. All you are going to see are big hits there. That is the problem of using a highlight reel to evaluate a player. It tells you nothing of how they play down to down.

    I have seen Chung run with WR's. So I don't think TEs will be a problem.

    Also Chung isn't necessarily an "in the box" safety. People label him that because he is aggressive and is the best tackler on his team.

    His biggest asset is the ability to operate in space, in bother coverage and in tackling, and he played more time deep with Oregon, but mostly because that is how they play their safeties.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    wow did those RBs look terrible out there. All of a sudden a deep class with no top ten kid looks like a bunch of second rounders, LOL.

    The receivers looked good though.

    I think Heyward-Bey just earned himself some money.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    Z
    I think both guys are worth the look. I see Chung as a first day can't miss pick. It also would not be a bad thing to look at Harris as a cover LB/S so you could keep the safety's at home. I see what your saying that would make him a sub-package guy from our 3-4 base D. Not that one replaces the other. Maybe one of the LB's drafted last year can play in that sub-package role that BB wanted Tank in.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 3

    Some people mentioned Guyton in that role. But considering that zone instincts seem to be a week point I doubt it.

    Personally I doubt Chung or Harris ends up in NE. Simply based on the fact that they played Meriweather at SS so much down the stretch I can't help but think he really has a foot in the door.

    Based on his comments I could see them really desiring a player like Vontae Davis who could project into multiple roles in the secondary. Like Meriweather he is the kind of player that is low risk in that his physical attributes and instinctual play he could fit in a number of roles. Watching him play I see a corner and a free safety.

    Just glancing at the recievers and running backs it looks like an average reciever draft and a below average running back season.

    Let's wait until the DBs and LBs are tested, because that is the meat of the draft.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

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    I believe the quote on Chung was his comfort zone is in the box. That would line up with the style of defense Oregon plays and makes perfect sense. Kinda stating the obvious.

    There's a reason Harris is ranked where he is. I think I had him a late 3rd rounder but we'll see what the combine brings. Who knows, if he lost some weight would that help his speed. He's going to have to cover 4.5 TEs and 4.3 WRs and I'm not sure he can do that right now.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    Ian Johnson at least said look at me. LOL
    I still think Cook TE and Coffee RB will be solid players at the next level.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdcfreshkickz9. Show jdcfreshkickz9's posts

    Draft 3

    ZB,

    Did you see what Larry English(274lbs)weighed in at? Damn that's big for a 6'2'' guy and I wonder if he plans on keeping his hand in the ground?

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/larry-english?id=80423

    Heyward-Bey and Harvin had nice 40 times today and good bench numbers for a WR. Rashad Jennings didn't have an awesome 40 time, but he did a pretty good job in all the other drills and ranked #2 in bench press with 29 and also finished 8th(10ft) in the broad jump. Overall none of the top RBs did much to impress me to take any of them in the 1st round and IMHO I'd like the Pats to grab a RB after their 47th pick.

    http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/rashad-jennings?id=71345

    Rumor has it from PatsInsiders.com that Harvin has spoken with New England Head Coach Bill Belichick at length.The coach had already pulled him aside this weekend and discussed issues of concern he has in the receiver's game which Harvin should concentrate developing.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    Mayock's quote said
    Chung /in the box type safety/ likes press vs off man coverage. Lord knows we need a press anything. LoL
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

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    I would say BB was doing more at the National Championship game than just watching from the box.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    English has made it no secret that he prefers to play in the ground. A ton of DEs don't want to convert. It adds more complexity because as a DE their job is to set the edge and rush with occaisonal pass coverage.

    AS a LBer their job is to operate in the open field and cover and rush.

    And for that transition they get reduced pay, and big time DEs tend to make more money. His weight isn't a huge concern to me, as much as how he looks in the drills. Adalius Thomas is 6'2" 272 and he failed as a defensive end, but ended up being a pro-bowl OLB. So it really depends on skill sets.

    BB's comments were too vague, briefly mentioning English and Orakpo as possible names.

    The bit on Harvin is interesting, but I would be mildly shocked to see NE used its first rounder on a WR/Scat back tweener.
     

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