Draft 4

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    One player who continues to look enticing is in fact Clay Matthews.

    But I am stll al little worried. I watch a lto of USC (who doesn't) and these guys don't ever get a chance to look like NFL style players. The whole offense gets blown up and confused in the face of the sheer talent acrossthe board. Usually players like Matthews and Cushing get to run after the QB through truck sized holes, and they never have to play the tough downs they will see here, like hanging on to a tackle to set an edge because the line was gapped the other direction, or being forced to call off their own blitz because a TE has motioned over their area.

    There are a ton of ways you can get disguised in that Defense -- which helps you strengths and avoids your weaknesses.

    What are the thoughts here on Matthews??? Thjere were literally three mocks with NE taking him at the last major update cycle.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

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    I've asked a few times but my question with Matthews is whether he is a guy who can come in, play on the outside and put up double digit sacks. He just doesn't seem like an edge rusher to me, maybe its because he didn't get much of a chance to do it at USC, but really, if not Barwin, I'll take anyone who can impact a game rushing off the edge.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    [Quote]I bet if Larry Bird took the Wonderlick he wouldn't fair any better but nobody played the game better. The Wonderlick doesn't test instinct and Maualuga has it. Let Mayo call the defensive.[/Quote]


    Even if that were true about Bird, it is apples and oranges. Basketball is not Football, and MLB is one of the toughest spots to play in any defense.

    The same things about instinct were said about Gholston last season when put up terrible wonderlic numbers. And he only had to play rush linebacker, which is much easier-- how did that work out?

    And as far as instincts go it is really hard to evaluate at USC, because he was always in position to just run around and make a play. The talent difference between USC and everyone on their schedule is enormous. There really isn't another University that is in that situation, where 10 out of the 12 teams they play before their bowl game have no business being on the same field as them.

    It would really tick off traditionalists, but to accurately gauge that team (Forget about their players) USC should really have to play some Big-12 and SEC opponents. It would make deciding bowl games easier. As of right now, minus USC the Mountain West is probably a tougher conference than the PAC-10.

    But I don't get any of it. How do som many Big-10 teams keep getting great rankings? Every time they play a bowl game out of their conference they are flattened. The emperor has no clothes, but I swear it is a money pit, and they decide based on ratings.

    So, he takes himself out of a play and people say it is aggression. Maybe some read it as him getting fooled, but caveat emptor because you can't tell for sure until he has to play some really tough downs in the NFL when teams will target him to see what he's got.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

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    Yeah, Mayo is definitely calling the plays if he teams with Mauluaga. He still hasn't had his pro day (April 1st) so he could rise or fall there too. RM hits like a ton of bricks, but he is not as smart or as fast as Mayo. What people say about Cushing or Mathews applies to RM (hiding deficiencies and playing to strengths) and next year it will apply to Mays. This happens routinely when a player is part of a great defense; another example is how good will Scott be without Ray Lewis or Ed Reed. To me playing great defense is always more important than personal accolades.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

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    Faucetman....huh?...the President of basketball operations for the Indiana Pacers would perform worse on the Wonderlic score than Maualuga.? Do you want another chance at creating a decent analogy?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    I am dead serious. Those programs are jokes except for Oregon. I could just as easily say that the Big-10 was a premier conference because they had four teams in the top 25 and two in the top ten. On ayn given year, the SEC and Big-12 could have three, maybe four teams that are potential #1 rankings. Pac-10 has one such team you can take that seriously. Which I suppose puts them above the Big-East by one team. But it is simply not the same competition.

    Ok, so like I said, remove USC. What are you left with. One team who makes the top ten, and another that is bottom ten-to five, and one team (Cal) that was top 25 *only* in the USA Today poll.

    It is a weak, weak, conference. Sorry. Second tier. Them's the facts hombre. If any of those teams had to play in a tougher conference they would get crucified, excepting USC of course, and possibly Orgeon, who was one of the two competetive teams I mentioned.

    And Orgeon State was one barn-burner win against USC themselves from being on zero polls. They lose that game, USC likely gets a #1 overall ranking (maybe #2?) and they aren't even mentioned in the top 25. As they got served by any respectable team they played.

    Like it or not, USC needs to go undefeated to get a #1 overall. Pay attention to the rankings. They get no respect because they play a garbage schedule dude.

    You can pretend it isn't true. But the nation of writers tend to disagree. If USC is 12-1, and LSU is 12-1 and Texas is 12-1, which team will be 3rd? USC every single time. And then they will likely go b!tchslap some weak Big-10 team and people will rave about how they should have been #1. And critics will say so what. And if they didn't the Pac-10 fans would complain anyway because the Rosebowl was desecrated. When in fact, a team like Florida would stomp all over them. Or like Texas like in 2005.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    I would add one thing. Saying you have Mayo call the signals is all well and good, but it doesn't usually work that way. The signal caller spots aren't hard and fast, but Ne has preferences at SS and at MIKE. That is why BB has kept ancient crusty vets in those spots for so d@rn long.

    I don't think the low wonderlic rules him out off the bat, but it doesn't help at all.

    I wish Brandon Spikes had come out this season, because in many ways he is tailor made for that hole NE has to fill. Although I doubt they would be in range anyhow, but a trade up for him would be a great way to fill that hole.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    If I were NE I would seriously look at adding Brace. They could have a one year audition. Brace isn't as finished as Fork was coming out, but he has some upsode because of his size.

    If he works out well as a rook, NE could save some cash and let Wifork walk. If he doesn't, they get a stout backup NT on the cheap.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Draft 4

    I'd be very tempted if Brace was there at 34, but definitely not at 23.

    If Maualuga was there at 23, that might make it even more tempting to take Brace at 34, because having such a strong ILB behind the nose tackle would make it somewhat easier to survive Wilfork's departure.

    Wilfork will be able to command as much money as he wants, and it could very well be a hundred million dollar deal if that's what he pushes for, especially if he has a good year. I would not want to be at his mercy next year, and I bet the Pats regret not locking him up long-term before the Haynesworth deal was signed.

    Having Brace and Wilfork on the team together might be somewhat awkward and insulting to Wilfork, but maybe we could try some interesting formations, and Wilfork will still be motivated by scoring big on the open market. We could always trade Brace down the road if we were able to come to an acceptable deal with Wilfork.

    I know that RMaualuga and Brace at 23 and 34 would not address our need at OLB, but maybe Taylor gets signed before the draft, or an arrangement is made for his signing after the draft.

    If Maualuga fell to us at 23, and Barwin/Maybin were gone at 34, and OLB was somehow addressed in some other way for this season, and Brace was there at 34, it would be something to strongly consider.

    There does not appear to be a Seymour fill-in available at 23 or 34. An eventual replacement for Mankins would be another thing to consider at 34, or somebody like Beatty, if the OLine could be shuffled around.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Draft 4

    Brace #34 would be a major reach. There are about a dozen players I would take instead.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

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    Interesting point Pats Fan. Brace does weigh 30 pounds more than Wright, but I'm sure there is something to your argument.

    They say baseball pitcher rely on their rear ends to no small extent, and Pedro's butt was explained to be a significant source of his power.

    I agree that Brace wouldn't seem like a great value at 34, and I know he didn't face many double teams playing next to Raji.

    But as more and more teams switch over to 3-4, the price of nose tackles will be skyrocketing.
    I imagine some 5 teams will be bidding for Wilfork next year, and we will be but one of them.

    I don't know what the long-term solution at Nose is, but I'm skeptical the solution is out-bidding 4-5 other teams for Wilfork's services, especially after the Haynesworth deal.

    Hopefully BB has something up his sleave, like a long-term contract for Wilfork this off-season.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Draft 4

    2008 Wonderlic Scores. I'm not sure how accurate these are, but they're fun to look at.

    Note that Mayo and Wheatly had scores at or near the top of their respective groups.


    http://potencial.wordpress.com/2008/03/23/2008-wonderlic-scores/
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pats-fan-2007. Show pats-fan-2007's posts

    Draft 4

    Arod, I only watched a couple BC games, but I never really noticed Brace.

    He might end up being a good player, but I wouldn't bet a #34 on it. He might still be there in the 3rd round.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    It is hard to say with Brace. I could see hom going somewhere between #33 and #50. That is a real short span. But there will be interest. My jaw would hit the floor if he were there in the third. And he would never be there when the Pats' 3rd rounder rolls around.

    It is hard to imagine NE not looking hard at this kid. And the longer he lasts, the harder the look gets. Brace at #47 is great. If for some reason he slipped to #58 he is the steal of the century.

    For the toher poster, Brace EATS double teams alive. If he is a one-trick pony, that is it. He doesn't make plays, but allows others to make plays, simply because he can ragdoll an O-lineman on his own, so they need two of em.

    If he had a quicker first step, he would be top five material jut like Raji. As it stands, Raji has more clout because he can project as an actual pass rush threat.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bchan89. Show bchan89's posts

    Draft 4

    Brace started for a whole year without Raji, not sure how he did/the team defense did that year, i belive the team made the confernce championship but there should be plenty of film on him handling doubles and what he looked like without a top ten talent next to him
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Draft 4

    Faucetman..Jackie Macmullen wrote the book...Bird Watching...a history of Bird's total carreer as a player, coach, and executive. A more proper comparison would be to Bill Rusell....all things being equal, Russ and Bird could out think the he## out of any opponent on the floor...and that was an integral part of their greatness....15 on the wonderlic score...maybe Larry Birdsall....sure as he## not Larry Bird.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    Brace did the same in 2007 as he did in 2008.

    Raji is the one who didn't face the double team. He was the undertackle. Brace was the one who faced the double teams more often.

    They are two different prospects.

    Brace is more of a nose tackle. Raji is more of an undertackle, although I think Raji could definitely play some nose if he worked at it.

    Both are very quick, but Raji has more straight line pass rushing speed and agility.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    It is the thrid best conference.

    I never said it wasn't.

    Butthe gap between it and the Big-12 is significant.

    And none of them are close to the SEC.

    The bottom line to me, is that USC would only play a schedule worth playing in one of those two conference, prefereably the SEC. The terrorize the PAC-10,and it makes it hard to gauge defensive players, the offenses they regularly play in the Big-10 and Pac-10 (their normal schedule) are not complex and get blown up easily.

    You would be able to see a lot more tough downs if they had to play teams like Georgia, LSU, Florida, Bama, etc, year in year out on a regular basis. Then you could really asess what say Clay looks like when he isn't running past air, or what Rey looks like when he actually is targeted.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

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    That Brace would be a downgrade from Wilfork is not in dispute. The debate is whether some 70-100 million dollars could be better spent shoring up less expensive positions than Nose Tackle, especially since 4-5 teams will be bidding on Wilfork.

    Hopefully he is locked up this offseason, but Wilfork becomes a lot less attractive in a crazy bidding war.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

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    Agree with ZB on the conference debate. The SEC is the most competitive. Willis and Mayo case in point, but the old adage about how the NFL will find you if you are a good player is true. Case in point that Canadian fella you mentioned. Reuben Mayes revisited. Alot depends on the systems and the players (cf: recruitment). I do think you get a better assessment of a player based on the level of competition he faces; in the SEC you play a very good team at least every other week.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    Not just that, but you play two or three flat out dominant teams every season.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

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    True, ZB. Another thing I`d like to add is that it is very difficult to find a good 3-4 nose. All the more reason to lock up Wilfork.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from reamer. Show reamer's posts

    Draft 4

    So I had, for some reason, a distinct dislike for Victor Harris, but I've been looking into his game recently, and I like how physical he is. He's really raw, but he's currently rated as a third rounder. I'm more than willing to gamble a third on this kid. His biggest knocks are his straight-line speed and his footwork. Both can be improved, however, and in one highlight I saw him run stride for stride with Darius Heyward-Bey, who is freakishly fast. Track speed does not equal football speed.

    Also, check this out: http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1105992/index.htm

    Not saying Harris could be as good as Law, but I definitely see some similarities: same size and physicality, same nose for the ball, same ability and willingness to help out in run support. Law was truly special, but I don't see why Harris couldn't become a very solid starter--or at least an upgrade over the loveable smurf.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Draft 4

    23rd- Connor Barwin DE/OLB/TE
    34th- Eben Britton OT or Merideth, depends who's avaialble
    47th- (if not traded for 2010) Sean Smith CB
    58th- Paul Kruger DE
    89th- Jasper Brinkley ILB
    3rd Compensatory- Ramses Barden WR (BTW 6'6" 227lb 4.50 40)
    120th- Terrance Taylor DT (can play nose)
    4th Compensatory-Courtney Greene SS
    6th Round-Alex Boone OT
    7th Round-Josh Mauga ILB
    7th Compensatory-Jared Bronson TE
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Draft 4

    Pats7393, good mock. I read an article recently about Barden and I'd be really happy getting him in the 3rd round. It seems like his stock is rising and he might go higher, though. 6'6 with 4.5 speed can't be taught. I also think Sean Smith might go higher, but everything fell into place that would be a killer draft.
     
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