Draft 4

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    I think Terrel Suggs is a good comparison. Although with him it was more of a question of turning the corner.

    I think Larry English is a player that a lot of folks will compare to Suggs in that way.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    [Quote]Count me among the minority that doesn't want Maualuga. He scares the hell out of me as another "hype" player who's flashy plays mask glaring weaknesses that will show up in the NFL.

    Guyton is much, much faster than Maualuga. His potential in the passing game is better because of that speed, even if he'll never be the hitter Maualuga is.

    A dominant edge rusher is with out question the #1 need on this entire team.[/Quote]

    I actually think Maualuga has more upside than him.

    But, I would add this about hitting. The NE coaches were very impressed by Guyton as a hitter. He is a violent, violent tackler. It really is one of his strong suits.

    I don't know where I would compare it to RM though. I haven't seen RM hit in the NFL where the speed of play might negate his strengths.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

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    [Quote]I think there are 4 groups of players that the Patriots should be going after with their 4 premium picks and that they could/should use some of their later round picks to move up to get their man especially if they are going to get all those comp picks.

    The only players I could see them willing to move up from #23 to get would be Rey Maualuga or Percy Harvin. We know BB likes Harvin and we know we need a new Faulk-type player who can do it all. We could take #89 and #23 to move up as high as #15. I think there is a solid chance Harvin is there at #23 but not RM.

    Assuming both are gone there are two groups of players I'm hoping we are targeting at #23 and #34. These are passing rushing OLBs and OL. Since there is only 11 spots between the two picks the order could be reversed.

    Britton/Beatty/Unger/Mack
    Barwin/Maybin/English/Sintim

    We then have the WR group to select from at #47. Here we may need to move up to about #40 to get Robiski which would cost our 4th.

    Nicks/Robiski/Britt

    At #58 it would be nice to get a safety or an ILB or perhaps even a CB. We could even go back to OL.

    CB - S. Smith/Byrd
    ILB- Brinkley/Beckwith
    OL - Robinson/Meredith
    S- W. Moore/Harris

    If the stars lined up I would be very happy with a draft like this.

    Britton
    Barwin
    Robiski
    Brinkley[/Quote]

    I agree with that approach and for the most part the way you look at the players

    I'd say at 23 only move up to get Maualuga and only if he slips past Denver. That means we'd prob need to get pick 13-15 to get him before SD does. I don't want to give up picks 34 or 47. The Economy might make the traditional value of even picks in the teens less these days. Maybe 58/4th to move up 8-10 spots?

    If no Maualuga (or a surprise drop from someone else)

    #23 is English/Matthews/Barwin/Maybin/Sintim

    work 'em out, find the best fit, I think 4 of the 5 will be there, PLEASE no Cushing

    or Britton at 23... Beatty is more of a reach... but I feel one of those two will be there at 34, Oher could be at 23. I'd save an interior lineman for the 3rd rd

    If we go OT at 23 then prob only Barwin/Sintim/Brown will be options @ 34, maybe one of the other guys, but I'd rather reach for the OLB we like the most at 23 and hope an OT is there at 34 than the otherway around...

    If we somehow miss out on on lineman then I want Delmas at 34

    47 is where I think we pick up Chung if he is there... (Delmas will prob be gone) or maybe Sean Smith or Moore (if he workd out good)

    58 is where I'd like to see us go WR.. Robiskie is prob gone (we could use our 3rd/4th to move up from here) but one of Britt/Iglesias/Nicks should be there.

    3rd rd is where I'd like to see Brinkley and an OG.

    4th rd a DE/DT type

    5C a CB

    6th traded and use the comp on a FB

    7th a long snapper to compete with the vet we just brought in
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Draft 4

    Lots of time to hash it out

    I still want the Patriots to get Taylor and keep Wright.

    Z did u find out about the Jarvis Green cap situation??

    Then when the draft comes and Maualuga is there in the 13-15 range. they should ask what it costs to move up... if they decline he could still be there at 23

    so could Jackson/Oher/Jenkins

    Gotta feel we take any of those 4 guys if they slip... and there is a decent chance one of them does..

    What if Pettigrew or Laurinaitis are there at 34?

    Delmas 33 - Barwin - 35 - English 45 and Beatty 52...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

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    Kiper and McShay just did their most recent mocks today

    Both had the Pats taking Matthews...Kiper idiotically has Maualuga slipping to Baltimore and Oher to Philly, they both have Davis available at 23... they both have Maybin/Brown gone in the teens

    McShay dropped Chung from his top 52 and has Rashad Anderson at 42..
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Draft 4

    I was interested to see that they both have Matthews to New England. Not saying I don't like Matthews, but does he project as an edge rusher in our defense? I honestly can't figure out if he'd project inside or outside in our defense, and that makes me afraid to draft him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bchan89. Show bchan89's posts

    Draft 4

    not that i have added to the discussion but i have enjoyed all the reading for 35+ pages over the last month but does this site suck since they changed the format last year, since the change we have lost the game by game thread for all teh boston teams, i love to read the post but this site sucks monkey balls right now and for the last couple of months, i will start reading the new draft thread
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Draft 4

    Hey Guys--Yes, thanks for all the great commentary. I've been following this site for two years now and when the draft arrives I feel well schooled. I don't make many comments because I don't have the knowledge some of you guys have. BUT I have to make a comment about RM. Someone made the point that our biggest need is an edge rusher and that's well taken. But watching the last two years, my eyes tell me something else: we don't tackle very well at times and we don't have enough of those very violent hits Z was talking about. I'm talking about Rodney in his prime--the ball goes one way, the helmet flies in the air, and the opposing player gets crushed. Even when Rodney is in there with diminished skills, his hitting incites others. For that reason I like the idea of RM and Chung. I don't see why people are souring on him--putting his injury aside, watching him do your eyes tell you he won't be an agressive head banger? I just keep thinking about what he looks like when you watch him and what people thought about Teddy B. when he first came out--no one thought Teddy would become the player he did. Get RM even if you have to move up a ltttle to get him. Go for the edge rusher at 34. Yeah!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Draft 4

    Here's my new game plan if I'm running our draft:

    If we can use our 23rd to take either Maualuga or Harvin then that's who we grab...if they're both there we take Maualuga....let's not overthink it...the guy can flat out play football, watch the tape.

    If neither of those guys are there...we flip it for a next year's 1st and 3rd or for Chad Johnson and a next year's 3rd/4th or somebody else that would be really awesome.


    At 34...we take Barwin, Sintim or English in that order and if none of those guys are there then I should be fired....unless Michael Johnson is there in which case we take him.

    At 47...Patrick Chung...if he's not available I'd go OL or WR depending on who's there.

    At 58...If Chung wasn't available...Rashad Johnson.

    I don't think we should pick an RB with our top 4 picks...but if we can get Devin Moore in the later rounds then great. But if we take Harvin that kind of satisfies both WR and RB to a degree.

    Now let's hear how brilliant everyone thinks I am.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Draft 4

    Ush--I think it's great. I like like your choices. I don't think I like trading picks for people like Johnson though--we need to get younger and quicker. I'm in California--have all those east coast guys gone to bed when there are important decisions to be made?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Draft 4

    Have you guys seen this clip of Barwin catching a TD?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z4ZP4ruwjQ

    Brady could have a field day.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    Yeah, that is the stuff about Barwin that is so great. I am tired of the Vrabel comparisons, but he does have the "look" of the ideal strong side OLB.

    A full fledged every down athlete who can snare interceptions, and get across the field (or after the QB)in a hurry. And having the option to bring in a 6'4" TE is always sweet.

    I don't see the "one year" as a huge knock, because he basically did better in the LB drills than any of the LBs, and doesn't really have any holes for such a young player.

    Above all, he seems like a smart kid, who could come here, and really digest the system quickly, kind of like Mayo was.

    Frankly, I think his upside is well beyond Vrabel's career production. Which is saying a lot, because Mike was a really good player here. And I think his floor is pretty low.TE,maybe a bargain MIKE linebacker.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Draft 4

    I've been watching a few of the Cincinnati game highlights.

    Watch him put a QB out of the game with a perfect slam to the ground at 5:00 into the clip:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LdxMxCAkqQ&feature=related

    There's another clip of him blocking a punt, but I didn't make note of which game highlight it was from.

    If Michael Johnson played with his intensity we'd be taking him at 23 no questions asked, if he was available.

    Barwin also knocks down tons of passes. I think he'll be one of the best 3-4 LBs dropping back into coverage, and I think he'll be an absolute monster on special teams.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdcfreshkickz9. Show jdcfreshkickz9's posts

    Draft 4

    By Wes Bunting
    Posted March 12, 2009
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    Behind The Measurements: Height vs. Arm Length
    FROM WES BUNTING:

    Every year at the NFL Combine, draft prospects strip down to their underwear and parade in front of scouts and executives in an event known as the weigh-in. This is the first time official heights and weights are taken on each player. However, two other vital pieces of information are also recorded that have just as much importance in determining how “big” a potential NFL prospect will play. Those numbers are reach (the length of a prospect’s arm) and hand size (the length from the pinkie finger to the thumb).

    Football is a contact sport in which collisions occur on virtually every play. Most NFL players are asked to win battles at the point of attack, and the players with the biggest frames and longest reaches have a clear advantage when engaging opposing players.

    The reach or arm length of an NFL prospect is a key attribute to any position, especially those on the line of scrimmage. However, no position is more crucial when it comes to reach than offensive tackle. To put into perspective how offensive linemen are either helped or hindered by reach, I want to look at two former prospects with similar height/weight numbers whose paths in the NFL have been markedly different.

    OT Adam Terry (Baltimore Ravens) and OT Marcus McNeill (San Diego Chargers) are former second-round picks (Terry in 2005, McNeill in 2006) who weighed in during their Combine appearances at 6-8 and around 330 pounds. However, the key difference during each player’s weigh-in was the discrepancy in reach. McNeill measured 35½ inches; Terry measured 32¼ inches. So we have two men who are roughly the same size, but McNeill has the length to match and maximize his 6-8 frame. Terry’s length forces him to play like a tackle closer to 6-3.

    There are other variables that go into an equation like this, but the fact is, McNeill has been the Chargers’ starting left tackle each of the past three years, while Terry has bounced back and fourth between starter and back-up the past four years and looks to be limited to the right tackle position. Again, there are other variables to be considered, but you have to figure the 3-plus-inch reach advantage McNeill has over Terry must be a significant factor why one player has been successful and the other has not.

    To put this into perspective, I broke down this year’s top left tackle prospects in order to give you a better idea what linemen have NFL-worthy arm length and what prospects will struggle playing to their listed size. But first, I constructed a range of arm lengths for the OT position in order to put each measurement into context.

    “Great” Arm Length (35-plus inches)
    D’Brickashaw Ferguson, Jets: 35½ inches (2006)
    Ryan Clady, Broncos: 36 inches (2008)

    “Good” Arm Length (34-34 7/8 inches)
    Jammal Brown, Saints: 34¼ inches (2005)
    Jeff Otah, Panthers: 34 5/8 inches (2008)

    “Average” Arm Length (33-33 7/8 inches)
    Michael Roos, Titans: 33 5/8 inches (2005)
    Levi Brown, Cardinals: 33 1/8 inches (2007)

    “Below Average” Arm Length (32-32 7/8 inches)
    Robert Gallery, Raiders: 32¼ inches (2004)
    Chris Williams Bears: 32¾ inches (2008)

    With an eye toward the 2009 draft class, we can now rank the nation’s top offensive tackles according to their arm length/reach and break down what each measurement means.

    Andre Smith, Alabama (6-4, 332), arm length: 35 5/8 inches
    Although Smith is a bit short for the position by NFL standards, his length more than makes up for his height. Smith actually plays more like a tackle who is 6-8. He possesses great feet for his size, but he lacks the kind of explosion needed on his kick step to consistently reach the corner vs. speed rushers. However, it’s his length that will allow him to hold his own in pass protection and engage long-armed defensive ends on the outside and drive them off the ball.

    William Beatty, Connecticut (6-6, 307), arm length: 34¾ inches
    Beatty does a great job getting out of his stance quickly and extending his long arms in pass protection. He showcases impressive hand placement on the outside and is consistently able to engage quickly and keep defensive ends off his body. Beatty possesses the coordination, foot speed and length to man the left tackle spot in the NFL.

    Eugene Monroe, Virginia (6-5, 309), arm length: 34 inches
    Monroe displays good patience in pass protection and has the length to consistently keep linemen off his body. He does a great job extending his arms and plays even longer than his wingspan indicates. There’s no question in my mind that Monroe has the length and overall athleticism to become one of the top tackles in the NFL the next couple of years.

    Jason Smith, Baylor (6-5, 309), arm length: 33¾ inches
    Smith relies on his pure athletic ability and body coordination in pass protection, but he also has enough length to keep defenders off his frame. He will play a bit short-armed at times, but that’s more a result of his lacking technique and continued development as a left tackle. He’ll learn to use every bit of his 33¾-inch reach at the next level once he gets some NFL coaching.

    Michael Oher, Mississippi (6-5, 309), arm length: 33½ inches
    Oher is a big, athletically gifted tackle who has all physical tools to make it in the NFL. He’s raw from a technique standpoint, and longer arms could help him make up for his consistent false steps and missed assignments. However, 33½ is right around the average length for an NFL starter and is more than enough for Oher to get by.

    Eben Britton, Arizona (6-6, 309), arm length: 32½ inches
    Britton’s lack of length is a concern for me, especially if teams are looking at him as a left tackle prospect. Britton is a polished pass protector who showcases good technique and does a great job extending his arms and getting every bit out of his 32½- inch reach. However, that length is a concern for a left tackle and could force Britton into a right tackle role on some NFL teams.

    Overall, the measurement of a prospect’s arm length is just another tool to help scouts determine the caliber of player they’re evaluating. Arm length helps determine the “true” size of an NFL player and allows scouts to establish how big an offensive lineman can play.

    As I said before, there are always exceptions to the rule, and simply measuring the arm length of an offensive tackle will not guarantee success. But when scouting offensive tackles, it’s paramount to consider length/reach in direct correlation to a player’s height and weight.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2009/03/behind-the-measurements-height-vs-arm-length/

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/03/12/mock1/
    index.html

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80f330d5&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true





    23.


    Patriots


    Larry English


    DE/LB


    Northern Illinois


    Larry English




    English is a guy who has fallen out of the first round on some boards, but his 31 college sacks and his intensity is just what the Patriots need. They could easily take Brian Cushing here if available.

    Combine highlights: Larry English




     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from angel3781. Show angel3781's posts

    Draft 4

    I just saw on rotoworld that Maybin had admitted to playing last season at only 230lbs. At the combine he weighed in at 249lbs but ran slow. I think there is no way in hell that he goes in round one because he's showing that right now his body can't handle the extra 20lbs that he had to put on in order to play OLB.

    That's the thing with this draft that really scares me, it seems that most of the prospects are showing up worst than advertised. I personally think there's a high bust rate in this draft because you have too many prospects that seem relatively close in terms of talent, so much so that it's a virtual pick'em type of situation. Unfortunately, this shows me that a player taken in round one this year may be no better than another guy taken in the second round; or that a guy taken in the second round might not necessarily be any more better than a third round guy.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Draft 4

    Outside of a few guys who could fall it seems like the talent at the top of the second and through the second is better situated to fill NE's holes...That's why I said.....If we can use our 23rd to take either Maualuga or Harvin (or V.Davis potentially) then that's who we grab...if they're both there we take Maualuga....let's not overthink it...the guy can flat out play football, watch the tape.

    If neither of those guys are there...we flip it for a next year's 1st and 3rd or for Chad Johnson and a next year's 3rd/4th or somebody else that would be really awesome.


    At 34...we take Barwin, Sintim or English in that order and if none of those guys are there then I should be fired....unless Michael Johnson is there in which case we take him.

    At 47...Patrick Chung...if he's not available I'd go OL or WR depending on who's there.

    At 58...If Chung wasn't available...Rashad Johnson.

    I don't think we should pick an RB with our top 4 picks...but if we can get Devin Moore in the later rounds then great. But if we take Harvin that kind of satisfies both WR and RB to a degree.

    Now let's hear how brilliant everyone thinks I am...LOL.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Draft 4

    F, I like Barwin too but I think if the Pats don't take him at 23 he'll be gone to the Dolphins or Ravens. He will be a stud for what ever team he plays for. I just posted LB frenzy on draft day, can anyone remember a time when all the stars have aligned better than this year?

    We have 5 to 6 picks in the first 3 rounds, our biggest need is OLB/ILB and this year you have LBs that will fall to the 3rd round than any other year would be late 1st early second rounders.

    3 LBs in those 5 picks, a WR and OL would be my guess how it ends up but I can't remember going into a draft and having our biggest need been the biggest depth in the draft and have some many picks to get good football players. BB coach of the decade.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Draft 4

    ush: great mock i couldn't have said it better myself, only thing is i think we should go after an OL at 58 and if unger falls to 34 we have to take him, he is very versitile, although i wouldn't mind seeing barwin there either.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    On reflection, I am still amazed that Clint Sintim is so suppressed. He is probably the single most productive front seven defender from a major school coming out, and to add to it, has tons of tape standing.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    Draft 4

    The posts on this thread are soooo long lol im not bashing im just saying everytime i stop to check this thread out there are like 3 or 4 huge posts.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    JDC's is reposting articles on the draft. A link would work as well.

    As far as the other posts, it is welcome.

    That is kind of how the draft thread rolls. The rest of the board is fine with short one liners. But frankly it annoys me aboutthis board. So many people just state something, and do not provide any real supprting evidence. Or they simply don't develop it enough.

    But the draft thread does have a lot of really measured and developed insight and opinion.

    It is the reason it is my favorite thread.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from titletownfan. Show titletownfan's posts

    Draft 4

    I'm gonna try a new one, and yes it probably won't happen

    #23 Brandon Pettigrew
    #34 Connor Barwin
    #47 Patrick Chung
    #58 Jamon Merideth
    #89 Jasper Brinkley
    3C Coye Francis
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from geoffchox. Show geoffchox's posts

    Draft 4

    It looks like one less likely team will be going after Maualuga before pick# 23 in the draft. San Diego just signed a FA Keith Burnett from Dallas, projected to start at ILB.

    http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/mar/12/chargerslb181356-burnett/?chargers
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Draft 4

    That would be a powerhouse draft. Although I seriously wonder about NE taking that many TE's into next season.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pyegian. Show pyegian's posts

    Draft 4

    Zb, do you still see Sintim as an ILB in New England? His production and size certainly warrants the chance to stay outside, but I haven't had a chance to see him play much, and I'm interested to know why you see him inside rather than outside. Either way, I agree that he is an intriguing player.
     
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