Draft 5

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    My first  "m"
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowlick316. Show cowlick316's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    what is "m"?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    [QUOTE]If the Patriots don't trade out/package their 1st round pick, I envision them drafting one of the following with their 23rd pick: Darius Bultler (CB), Evander"Ziggy"Hood (DE), Brandon Pettigrew (TE) or a RB (perhaps Brown or Moreno) .  By the time the Patriots select in the 1st round, I don't anticipate any first round grade DE/OLB's to be available.  Larry English and Connor Barwin, although intriguing prospects, appear to project better in the second round (at the 23rd spot I think both would be a reach).  The rest of the draft is simply too difficult to predict.  Undoubtedly, the organization will be making several moves on draft day as they will not be selecting 11 players, and thus using all of their allotted draft choices this year. 
    Posted by Going-the-Distance[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the comment that English and Barwin would both be reaches at #23.  #34 is about right for both these guys.  I have Barwin rated a little higher than English even though I acknowledge English is more ready to contribute.  I just think Barwin has so much upside.  The reason I'm not pushing either of these guys or any of the OLBs now as hard as I was is I think we could be going another direction for a pass rusher.  I started another thread about who I think it will be.  If that doesn't happen I'm leaning towards Barwin but wouldn't be shocked at Michael Johnson either.  At 6-7, 266 and sub 4.70 speed he could become a very good pass rusher.  I also like Ayers a lot.  Mayock thinks Ayers will end up being the best defensive player taken in this draft.  It's great we have so many options.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    [QUOTE]what is "m"?
    Posted by cowlick316[/QUOTE]

    Board would not show the next post even though the front page said one was there. So I had to post a "m" to get the post to show. it was a big problem on the last board.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    [QUOTE]I agree with the comment that English and Barwin would both be reaches at #23.  #34 is about right for both these guys.  I have Barwin rated a little higher than English even though I acknowledge English is more ready to contribute.  I just think Barwin has so much upside.  The reason I'm not pushing either of these guys or any of the OLBs now as hard as I was is I think we could be going another direction for a pass rusher.  I started another thread about who I think it will be.  If that doesn't happen I'm leaning towards Barwin but wouldn't be shocked at Michael Johnson either.  At 6-7, 266 and sub 4.70 speed he could become a very good pass rusher.  I also like Ayers a lot.  Mayock thinks Ayers will end up being the best defensive player taken in this draft.  It's great we have so many options.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Agree at 23 to high for both. I saw a thread that still wanted peppers for 34.
    [edit: OH That's your thread] 
    Faucet
     Let me ask you this / What do I have to do to put you on English today? HaHa
     English does evreything that we know peppers does as of right now. I'll give you English as NOT done it in the NFL. So I'll mark down the price and and give you like 7/9 years of wear and tear.

    I say take the guy of your choice and the smaller price tag. 34 could be Ayers or one of the two we like. I'm not sure what to make of Johnson. Mayock's also been saying Barwin is more of a mid to late 2nd as of late.

    If we have a pick no matter the # and our guy will be gone before you pick again is that a reach? Or do you take someone who has falling to you?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    [QUOTE]Agree at 23 to high for both. I saw a thread that still wanted peppers for 34. [edit: OH That's your thread]  Faucet  Let me ask you this / What do I have to do to put you on English today? HaHa  English does evreything that we know peppers does as of right now. I'll give you English as NOT done it in the NFL. So I'll mark down the price and and give you like 7/9 years of wear and tear. I say take the guy of your choice and the smaller price tag. 34 could be Ayers or one of the two we like. I'm not sure what to make of Johnson. Mayock's also been saying Barwin is more of a mid to late 2nd as of late. If we have a pick no matter the # and our guy will be gone before you pick again is that a reach? Or do you take someone who has falling to you?
    Posted by ohyes[/QUOTE]

    To put me in that English car it's going to have to be a Jaguar, lol.  Seriously I'm not against English at #34 and don't think he'll be a reach there.  He is more ready by a mile than Barwin to step in and play OLB.  Both Barwin and English played at small schools against less then elite competition so there is that risk. 

    I live in SoCal now so I'm a little more up on USC's LBs.  I find it funny when everyone has Matthews (who was a walk-on) and Cushing rated higher than Maualuga.  RM was the leader of that defense emotionally and statistically for the past two seasons.  But, I'd take any of these LBs over English and Barwin at this point. 

    My brother, who runs a draft website, is in love with Michael Johnson.  Mayock dumped all over him and his ratings plunged.  At least Johnson played at a big program.  At 6-7 it will be tough to throw over him into the flat.  I worry he will have a hard time getting leverage against shorter RGs.  He will have to use speed and spin moves.  Got to run...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    English is a great pass rush prospect, but there are major questions about whether he can actually play OLB. I am really high on him though as a pure rusher. He might not have the blazing speed (I think he was clocked mid-4.7s at his pro-day) but he has a dynamite first step and MOST importantly he has electric hand usage-- he seems natural in that respect. It makes it a nightmare to lock on to a player that is that active.

    Big however, he is a straight line guy. In vid and on the field he doesn't look all that much like an OLB, which can change with coaching. But from what I see, I think of him now as more of a 9-tech DE, like they use in Indy or sometimes on the NJ Gints, the kind of guy who can take an angle and rush the passer 95% of the time.

    Faucet,

    It wasn't just Mayock that p00ped on Johnson. That has been the card on him since *before* the 2008 season. There were scouts that actually thought someone would go top 15 on this player based on pure upside.

    I love what his physique promises, but let's be honest. He looks nothing like the type of player NE usually takes, and from what I have read (and truthfully it only takeson positive eval to out this) a number of scouts say they want nothing to do with a guy who is noted for half-azzing it in preperation, and motoring it down in the game. And the Catch-22 is that if he didn't behave this way, he wouldn't even be in the conversation, because he would go much, much higher than where NE is looking.

    I don't think he is in the question until after #34. And the longer he slips, the harder it gets for any team to pass on his upside. But I would feel nervous comitting millions to a guy who isn't a dedicated athlete.

    The problem I see with this draft for NE is that there is very, very little difference between the defensive talent at #23 and at #34. This places NE in a kind of tought spot, because unless you are describing someone slipping to NE from the top-ranks, then it becomes hard to see how any player in there is more or less of a "reach" than any other.

    English, Hood, Barwin, etc, etc, etc, etc. Almost any name that has been floated at #23, I don't see any one of these players as first round locks. And different people have their different reasons for liking a guy there, but it comes down to the fact that all three could be off the board at #23. Or all but one? Tough to tell.

    I think people have Matthews and Cushing rated over Maualuga for a multitude of reasons that make it a complex situation. First and foremost, as 4-3 LBs they project better than Maualuga. The vast majority of the NFL runs that setup, so it is easy to make them out going higher. I think the view is that Matthews is ascending, where as Maualuga is a take or leave it, and Cushing shot his wad in college.

    My 2 cents, is that the latter two small guys are nearly useless in NE, whereas Maualuga has tremendous value going down the stretch, although I wonder if he is a NE type player himself.

    I would never rank Cushing above either. Part timers in college? And he is supposed to come here and make an impact??? And to be honest, I see Clay as a 4-3 guy only.

    And to be clear, I don't put all my stock into suggestions that Maualuga is a two-down guy, and don't think NFL teams do either. I think he is *clearly* a terrible fit for a lot of 4-3 teams. But his one real question is how he matches in man-to-man, and I think with some coaching he could be servicable. And at the same time, I think he could punish underneath recievers in short zone coverage, and has all of the tools to blitz, which gives him two out of three. So less questions than there are about most prospects. I think he could put a question or two in the heads of opposing OC's on 3rd when NE opts, or is forced to play 3-4 packages. So he isn't a two down guy. Is he perfect? NO. But WHO is better at #23???? WHO has less questions?

    Please don't say English, because racking up sacks at a borderline Div-2 school in a dedicated DE role doesn't qualify as experience as an OLB. Please don't say Cushing, because he was a part-timer there, and probably benefitted MORE from USC's total package than any player in recent memory. And certainly not Matthews . . he has ONE season of playing time in a very different role from what NE would have him doing.

    I think it is mostly negative hype-- if teams were really that low on him, he wouldn't be in the conversation. So it is academic.

    Anyhow, the fundamental makeup of this draft leaves me with the feeling that NE might end up going offensive at #23 if they think there is value down the line, or trading up to get out of #23. 

    I mean nabbing Pettigrew or Brown and hoping that the one of these Defensive prospects is still there at #34 seems borderline prudent.

    I think if Ne starts thinking about packaging up it has to be for the only real "value" guy for them in the draft, and that would be Tyson Jackson-- who slots in like a Ty Warren and would have zero question marks as a 2-gap run stopper, at least less than Hood.

    Maybe there is an outside chance that they *love* Jenkins and if they see him slipping a bit they make a move on a free safety/corner hybrid type player?? Maybe they like the Andre Smith/Nick Saban connection and think he might slip pretty far?

    You end up:

    Pettigrew/Moreno/Brown
    Barwin/English?
    Meredith?
    Chung

    I don't know. But I hope some slippage occurs that makes an easy decision of this for NE. Because I haven't had such trouble figuring a draft in a while.

    The needs are easy, but the collection of players (each with +'s & -'s) makes it tremendously difficult to stay at #23.

    To see what I mean, consider this draft section:
    20. Detroit Lions (from 9-7 DAL) (0-16): Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC
    21. Philadelphia Eagles (9-6-1): Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia
    22. Minnesota Vikings (10-6): Darrius Herward-Bey, WR, Maryland
    23. New England Patriots (11-5): Clay Matthews, OLB, USC
    24. Atlanta Falcons (11-5): Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State
    25. Miami Dolphins (11-5): Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois
    26. Baltimore Ravens (11-5): Brian Cushing, OLB, USC
    27. Indianapolis Colts (12-4): Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi
    28. Philadelphia Eagles (from 12-4 CAR) (9-6-1): Eben Britton, OT, Arizona
    29. New York Giants (12-4): Larry English, DE, Northern Illinois
    30. Tennessee Titans (13-3): Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina
    31. Arizona Cardinals (9-7): Donald Brown, RB, Connecticut
    32. Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4): Darius Butler, CB, Connecticut

    Why?????????? To get to 20-17 and RM it takes a 4th to 3rd round pick, which NE practically needs to get rid of anyhow, as they cannot sign 25 drafted guys.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    This is Kiper's section. Same scenario. If Jenkins and Pettigrew ar on the board at #23 and Tyson Jackson is not, there isn't a player in the draft that I could see them taking over either kid.


    20. Detroit Lions (from Dallas) (0-16)

    Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi: Oher is one of the more intriguing prospects in the draft. He's loaded with talent and can dominate the defense he's working against, but he also seems to have lapses in concentration when he struggles to keep his opponents at bay.

    21. Philadelphia Eagles (9-6-1)

    Knowshon Moreno, RB, Georgia: There isn't anything remotely close to the talent and depth at running back available in the draft last year, but Moreno is a good fit for the Eagles at this spot.

    22. Minnesota Vikings (10-6)

    Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers: Britt has a ton of talent and is just beginning to scratch the surface of his potential.

    23. New England Patriots (11-5)

    Donald Brown, RB, Connecticut: Brown could end up being one of the more productive rookie backs in 2009 because of his all-around skills and tremendous character.

    24. Atlanta Falcons (11-5)

    Brandon Pettigrew, TE, Oklahoma State: Pettigrew remains the No. 1 tight end on the board and would be a help to young Falcons quarterback Matt Ryan.

    25. Miami Dolphins (11-5)

    Malcolm Jenkins, CB, Ohio State: Jenkins has all the qualities you look for, with the exception of top-flight recovery speed, which is an obvious concern. Even so, he's too good an overall performer to pass up in the middle of the first round.

    26. Baltimore Ravens (11-5)

    Vontae Davis, CB, Illinois: Davis is an impressive physical specimen, but he lacked consistency with the Illini, not always performing at the elite level you would expect from a player with his natural talent and ability. He'll be a gamble.

    27. Indianapolis Colts (12-4)

    Peria Jerry, DT, Mississippi: Jerry is a very underrated prospect, and would be a good fit in the Indianapolis scheme.

    28. Philadelphia Eagles (from 12-4 CAR) (9-6-1)

    Eben Britton, OT, Arizona: Britton could be a good fit for the Eagles' offensive line, although I would have liked to see him return for his senior year.

    29. New York Giants (12-4)

    Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina: Nicks won't wow you in a workout, but on game day he makes the tough catches and is the type of player who wants the ball thrown his way in clutch situations.

    30. Tennessee Titans (13-3)

    Percy Harvin, WR, Florida: Harvin reminds me of the Reggie Bush we now see with the Saints. You can utilize Harvin in a number of ways, and, like Bush, he's a scoreboard-changer. However, he also carries the same durability concerns as Bush.

    31. Arizona Cardinals (9-7)

    Larry English, LB, Northern Illinois: English set the all-time sack record at Northern Illinois, and could be an impact player in Arizona.

    32. Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4)

    Eric Wood, C, Louisville: Wood has been a player on the rise of late, and with his size and skills he could find himself a Steeler for a very long time.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    Z, I agree with the concerns you noted about English as an OLB. I think Barwin would be better from day one, because he can actually move in space like a linebacker.

    Everette Brown, Larry English, and Aaron Maybin all seem to lack the lateral quickness and change of direction required to be decent in coverage. They are all undersized DE's, which made us all talk about them as 3-4 OLBs, but when they were actually tested moving around in space, they all looked pretty bad.

    Brown probably has the worst lateral mobility of the three. That being said, it's entirely possible that English and Maybin could eventually make above average 3 down OLBs, but it's a crapshoot, and they wouldn't be the first undersized DEs to fail in coverage as OLBs.

    We already have Crable as a pass rushing specialist with questionable ability in coverage, and pass rushing is the only area Brown, Maybin or English might upgrade, with a high likelihood that they would.

    I think the concerns about Michael Johnson are overblown. He's a hard worker, well liked by the coaches, and I think the scouts who have been quoted are being overly harsh because he is so physically talented. I don't think he'd be a reach at 34 by any means, and there is a good chance that he could be gone by then.

    The concern about Johnson that holds the most weight with me is that he can be slow to recognize and react to plays, which means that he might not be very good in coverage despite his athleticism.

    Like English and Maybin, I think he still has upside as a 3 down OLB, and I'd rank him slightly higher than both.

    I don't think there's any guarantee that Barwin will be there at 34, although it seems likely at this point. Miami could still take him at 25.

    I think Cushing could be a nice ILB next to Mayo, and he plays stronger than his size. Both Cushing and Laurenaitis could play ILB all 3 downs without any question, imo, although neither can thump like Maualuga. Laurenaitis actually tested very, very well in the 3 cone at the combine, and I think the concerns about his athleticism are overblown.

    Brinkley also ran a surprisingly fast 3 cone, which is interesting.

    I'm curious if Vontae Davis rates better as a safety, and if his concentration issues would be minimized in that role. What do you think?



     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    For me there are only 15 guys that are first round talents and should be gone before #23.  I have them in red below.

    I almost put Rey Maualuga in this group but if there are concerns about him being a 2 down player that keeps him out.  The QBs in another year might not make this group but in this year with the number of teams needing a QB, all three should be gone.  Jenkins is on this list as a S because he will not play CB in the NFL with mid 4.5 speed unless it is as a nickel.

    I did a mock last week that I will likely change but based on team needs this is how I have it.  I see a run on OTs again because the good ones won't make it around again.  If Beatty or Britton are there at #23 I'd be tempted to take one because there will be an OLB at #34 and likely still one there at #47 (Sintim).

    1DetroitMatthew Stafford
    2St. LouisJason Smith
    3Kansas CityAaron Curry
    4SeattleEugene Monroe
    5ClevelandBrian Orakpo
    6CincinnatiAndre Smith
    7OaklandEverette Brown
    8JacksonvilleMichael Crabtree
    9Green BayBrian Cushing
    10San FranciscoMark Sanchez
    11BuffaloMichael Oher
    12DenverB.J. Raji
    13WashingtonJeremy Maclin
    14New OrleansChris Wells
    15HoustonMalcolm Jenkins
    16San DiegoRey Maualuga
    17N.Y. JetsJosh Freeman
    18Denver (from Chicago)Tyson Jackson
    19Tampa BayRobert Ayers
    20Detroit (from Dallas)Eben Britton
    21PhiladelphiaWilliam Beatty
    22MinnesotaVontae Davis
    23New EnglandEvander Hood
    24AtlantaPeria Jerry
    25MiamiClay Matthews
    26BaltimoreDarrius Heyward-Bey
    27IndianapolisHakeem Nicks
    28Philadelphia (from Carolina)Brandon Pettigrew
    29N.Y. GiantsKenny Britt
    30TennesseePercy Harvin
    31ArizonaKnowshon Moreno
    32PittsburghMichael Johnson
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    Zb & aro both well thought out posts.  I'd like to add that a team should always take the surest bet in the first round because of the money and length of contract.  Need should be a secondary concern.  When you are a good team like the Pats, Indy, Pittsburgh etc you don't worry about need as much as you do being sure you've drafted a guy who will be a productive starter for many years. 

    Of the guys not in red from my earlier post I think the two OTs, two DTs and Pettigrew are pretty safe bets to pan out.  I think Ayers will end up being a stud too but he is riskier because he wasn't good until last season.  Davis, H-Bey, Harvin and Johnson I view as high risk of being busts.  I worry about Davis' intellegence and his brother so far has struggled.  I worry that Cushing might have reached his potential.  So again, I think we should keep that first pick really safe.  There is nothing wrong with grabbing another OL even though we have 14 already when most of the 14 will be F/A after the season.  My preference right now would be to go defense in either Hood or Ayers because of the uncertainty on the D line after the season.  Butler should probably be in my mock and he's a possibility too. 

    Kiper has not had a good track record recently with his mocks so he's guessing as much as any of us.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    Got to take a break from football.  Going out to Red Sox/Angels game right now.  I'll be the big guy wearing a Youkilis jersey down the 3rd base line.  :))))
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    Faucet, tough to say who the safest pick at 23 would be. I'd say Maualuga if he was there, and I think the concerns about him being able to play 3 downs are overblown.

    I don't think we have a real need for a right tackle, so I think Britt would be out. Beatty might make sense but I don't think he's a guranteed success by any means.

    Hood seems like a very safe pick. Cushing and Laurenaitis also, without being particularly exciting.

    I'd be happy to trade up to 15 for Oher, since HOU seems to be looking at Cushing and Mathews, both of whom should be there at 23.




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    I agree Z, the Patriots almost have to make trades to move up or aquire more picks for next year.  They do not have enough salary cap or available spots.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    I'll wade in with my thoughts because this discussion needs some uninformed guessing: @23...Darius Butler...@34 Connor Barwin...@47 Louis Delmar...@58 Shawn Nelson.....and then get Brinkley or Appleby later....then fill in with WR, OT, and RB. The Pats are in a great position to load up,even on the second day...let's hope they really lock it down.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    There are plenty of spots that could be contested by a rookie or earned by a rookie.
    1 QB
    1 RB
    1 or 2 WR
    1 TE
    1 OG
    1 or 2 DL
    1 OLB
    1 ILB
    1 DB
    1 S

    The Pats could definitely use 11 picks and end up controlling those players on the roster or reserve list the first day of the season. Injuries happen in the preseason and we could use the extra long term depth.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from thehub. Show thehub's posts

    Re: Draft 5


    If BB thinks there is a stud worth moving up for I hope he pulls the trigger. We do not need all 11 picks. Curry at 3 would be great. However, we would have cap issues.

    Think defence with the first 4 picks. The offence may need help in a few years (RB,OL, WR) but the D needs it now to win next year.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    [QUOTE]If BB thinks there is a stud worth moving up for I hope he pulls the trigger. We do not need all 11 picks. Curry at 3 would be great. However, we would have cap issues. Think defence with the first 4 picks. The offence may need help in a few years (RB,OL, WR) but the D needs it now to win next year.
    Posted by thehub[/QUOTE]

    I think Maualuga at 15 would be great and affordable.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyleCleric2. Show KyleCleric2's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    i don't see us necessarily needing to move up for Maualuga and we'd be better off with what we get at 23 and whatever other pieces necessary rather than 15.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    Thanks guy's for the answers.

    Good one Faucet :) Is that Jag a type P #90

     I guess the consensus is @ 23 is take
    1. BPA @ any position / glaring need is not first thought here ( A Starter or really close)
    2. package an move up for Malualuga or other. Maybe who slips a little
    3. try and trade out
    4. take the LB you absolutly love because he could not be at 34 and we don't feel Woods/Guyton is THE GUY.

     @34  Take the LB of choice  value here with any of the list.
             English is just my guy.

    I think Rey M. was to USC as RAY L. is to the Ravens. In that the pieces can move around the core. You have to admit that Rey could make 2 or 3 play's a game that impact the other team/players thinking. Is Rey able to bring it to the next level is his big ? for me. Not 2 or 3 down LB. Can he cover? Can any of the LB's coming out for sure? What we do know is who ever we take they will be used in the best way to play to their strenght.

    Thankls for ripping kippers list. Z
    I hate it.
    We loose the chance to get English,Pettigrew, Harvin, Wood, Jenkins and Nicks @ 34. We know some was'nt making it to 2nd round anyway. Make's it all to real that if we don't jump right the first time it could hurt. We also know Brown's tremendous charater won't make him more productive in 09 with 4 other RB's.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    Well thnx guys after reading all of these posts I'm now addicted to Aspirin! I don't know which player or players BB really likes but I live in Florida and if you want a star WR Percy Harvin is who the Patriots should draft.Forget about all of the wanna be OLB/DE's,just go offense! Then instead of worrying about how great the Defense is the Patriots can use the yankee theory beat them into submission!!!! Force the rest of the NFL to adjust to the offense.I would also draft Pat White if he's available,that way you can give Tom a break now and then and use the Wild Cat offense!Plus could you see the look on the defensive coordinators faces as they look out on the field and saw 4 wides named Moss,Galloway,Harvin and White that my friends would be 4.3 in the forty across the board!!! You send White in motion and drive the defense completely insane!!! Or you line Harvin up in the backfield and let them guess where the ball is going!!By the end of the first you'll see opposing coaches waving white flags!!!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    Bozo
     What are you talking about?
    No way does Harvin or White take Welker off the field. HaHa
    You think Urban Myers is using this make others adjust philosophy?

    It's not that we know what BB is thinking. 
    It's what will the 22 teams in front of us do?
                       Grab a cool rag it's just a few more day's !!! Undecided
     
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 00chief00. Show 00chief00's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    The pats will need to trade up to get alot of the players some of you put (ie maualuga, etc.). Try to be more realistic when you make your mocks, A player wont fall to ne's pick just because you want him to........
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    First, to all. I am not proposing BPA, because there is no such thing. The BPa when Ne picks could be Josh Freeman, but they won't take him.

    The point is that there is some need, short or long term at most positions on this year's team, and asside maybe from OLB, there isn't a glaring need like last year at CB and ILB, where NE was essentailly forced to take players just to get bodies in there.

    My contention is that with upcoming need at OL, DL, and TE, perhaps not as pressing as at OLB or other positions, it is still enough to take the better player if that is the case.

    Simply, if NE thinks Barwin or whoever is there at #34 (I say 50/50 chance) then you take the player you won't be able to get there, and you don't cram a square peg into a round hole, just because he has better triable numbers or projects to be a beast in some other system.

    Faucet,

    I like the list. My grading, which was done some time ago, wasn't dissimilar. Although, I would certainly consider Wells, RM, DHB, Britton and a few others as first rounders. And wouldn't include Freeman or maybe Sanchez.

    The way I usually compile those lists is just to imagine a very robust draft at every position, and then think of who would still make it. This season, I think this is the list of players that would recieve a first round grade almost every single season, with my obvious bias against Cushing holding him out. LOL.

    Michael Crabtree     WR     Texas Tech

    Aaron Curry     OLB     Wake Forest    
    Jason Smith     OT     Baylor
    Eugene Monroe     OT     Virginia    
    B.J. Raji     DT     Boston Coll.
       
    Brian Orakpo     DE     Texas    
    Aaron Maybin     DE     Penn State    
    Matthew Stafford     QB     Georgia        
    Jeremy Maclin     WR     Missouri    
    Malcolm Jenkins     CB     Ohio State    

    Andre Smith     OT     Alabama    
    Brandon Pettigrew     TE     Okla. State    
    Everette Brown     DE     Florida State    
    Chris Wells     RB     Ohio State    
    Tyson Jackson     DE     LSU    

    Rey Maualuga     ILB     USC    
    Michael Oher     OT     Mississippi    

    Peria Jerry     DT     Mississippi
    Darrius Heyward-Bey     WR     Maryland
    Percy Harvin     WR     Florida    
    Eben Britton    OT    Arizona
    Darius Butler    CB     UCONN
    Vontae Davis    CB    Illinois

    For instance, I have seen other QB drafts where Freeman and Sanchez would 2nd round QB's. I have seen RB drafts where Moreno would be a second rounder. However, I can't remember a draft in my 10 plus of watching this thing intently where Wells wouldn't be in the first, or where Pettigrew would get the boot. The last six are all "fringe" types who would most likely make it into the bottom.

    I think what is really missing this season are the super blue-chippers that would round a draft out at the top. That would take the running total from 23 to something closer to 27-30, which is more typical. I think the depth through round two, though, more than makes up for the weak top end this season, where some low second players might have been borderline first rounders in another season, and much of the second round will be placed out decided on need on a team by team basis. I mean Unger, Mack, Meredith, Beatty could all be second, and a couple could go late, but in a weaker year they all might even sneak into the first, and players like Robiskie might make it up there as well.

    If, for instance, we took the blue chips from last season and placed them in this draft, ALL of the players up there would get bounced quickly.

    Add Jake Long, Chris Long, Ryan, McFadden, Ellis, Dorsey, add them to 2009 and all of a sudden players like Curry are where they should be, in the 7-12 range, with comparable talents like Rivers, Mayo, Willis from 2007, etc, etc.  And great OL players like Smith and Monroe would be getting picked down the line as well. And Stafford would clearly be second banana, getting picked somewhere outside of five for sure.

    And you would have a legit 29 deep first round. That said, some of the players that went in the second last season would be third rounders this season. We could start with the last 10 or so from 2008-- none of these players IMO would be in the second this season, except maybe Brohm, and only because the QB draft is anemic this season, which miraculously almost is actually worse than last season's.

    52 Jacksonville Jaguars (from Tampa Bay) Quentin Groves Defensive end Auburn
    53 Pittsburgh Steelers Limas Sweed Wide receiver Texas
    54 Tennessee Titans Jason Jones Defensive tackle Eastern Michigan
    55 Baltimore Ravens (from Seattle) Ray Rice Running back Rutgers
    56 Green Bay Packers (from Cleveland) Brian Brohm Quarterback Louisville
    57 Miami Dolphins (from San Diego) Chad Henne Quarterback Michigan
    58 Tampa Bay Buccaneers (from Jacksonville) Dexter Jackson Wide receiver Appalachian State
    59 Indianapolis Colts Mike Pollak Center Arizona State
    60 Green Bay Packers Patrick Lee Cornerback Auburn
    61 Dallas Cowboys Martellus Bennett Tight end Texas A&M
    62 New England Patriots Terrence Wheatley Cornerback Colorado
    63 New York Giants Terrell Thomas Cornerback USC


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Draft 5

    [QUOTE]i don't see us necessarily needing to move up for Maualuga and we'd be better off with what we get at 23 and whatever other pieces necessary rather than 15.
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]

    I think we all agree that we need an impact player on defense as our top priority.  This doesn't necessarily mean we'll take one with our top pick.  If I were to rank the best defensive prospects for our system that have a reasonable shot at being there at #23 or with a slight move up (no more than adding #89) I'd rank them this way.  Trading #23 and #89 moves us up to between 17 and 18.

    #1  Rey Maualuga
    #2  Robert Ayers
    #3  Darius Butler
    #4  Ziggy Hood
    #5  James Laurinaitis
    #6  Connor Barwin
    #7  Brian Cushing
    #8  Clay Matthews
    #9  Michael Johnson
    #10 Larry English

    If we come out of this draft with one of these guys with either of our first two picks I'd say we have a better football team than last year.  Just getting Brady back assures that.
     
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