Draft experts please explain

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    " NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY had this kid rated this high. "

    Ummmm and you know this because...Mel Kiper told you? 

    Step off the ledge, take a walk in the sunlight maybe
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    I agree its a tough pill to swallow tonite, especially after the day the Pats had
    yesterday.  Did anyone else hear Mike Mayock say that Wilson was rising up
    draft boards quickly when the Pats drafted him?

    BB wanted this kid and the only reason he would have taken him that high was
    if he thought another team wanted him.  Who knows what the buzz was around
    the draft at that time.

    I don't like this either. But on 2nd thought I didn't go to Illinois and
    personally work him out and I certainly don't have 3 SB titles as a
    head coach.

    Only time will tell.  Hope BB was right.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    I agree its a tough pill to swallow tonite, especially after the day the Pats had yesterday.  Did anyone else hear Mike Mayock say that Wilson was rising up draft boards quickly when the Pats drafted him? BB wanted this kid and the only reason he would have taken him that high was if he thought another team wanted him.  Who knows what the buzz was around the draft at that time. I don't like this either. But on 2nd thought I didn't go to Illinois and personally work him out and I certainly don't have 3 SB titles as a head coach. Only time will tell.  Hope BB was right.
    Posted by MoreRings


    Bill personally worked him out AND Mayock said he was rapidly rising?

    gotta link?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : Bill personally worked him out AND Mayock said he was rapidly rising? gotta link?
    Posted by rameakap


    No link, I heard Mayock say this right after the Pats drafted him on NFL channel.

    I forget who, but another talking head said that BB had personally worked him
    out in Champagne.  It was either on NFL network or espn, I was switching back
    and forth.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    People have a short memory of how our secondary looked last year.  Edelman?  McCourty switching to safety?  Guys off the street? The Pats are "going for it" every year.  Most "experts" say it may take a year or two for Jones to add weight.  So, it's not like BB was shooting the whole thing for this year and mortgaging the future. Does anyone remember all the moves BB made after the draft last year???
    Posted by nyjoseph


    you mortgage the future by destroying your draft making the kind of moves we made today.

    good thing he changed his stripes in the first round, and that he is a great coach, and that he has tom brady.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : Agreed.  But turn this around.  Are we sure he isn't as good as H. Smith, ND?  Most guys on the board seem like they would have been happy with taking Smith at 31.  I'm not convinced Smith is anything special at all.
    Posted by nyjoseph


    wasnt high on smith.
    but yes it seems quite obvious smith has more talent in several dimensions.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : Nihhhce... I swear to god, and we're talkin' 7 years here=The Round 2 bell chimes, and Bill Belichick says, " Alright fellas, I'm takin' a nap...you know how crabby I can get- Really, 'Member 2010 when I was semi-awake durin' those mid-rounds?  Right- I was just altogether ornery...slightly rude even.  Anyway, as usual, wake me as Rd 6 starts winding down ..."
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium



    ill definitely go with this take.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : I think the thing people have to remember is that it only takes ONE other team who also likes him to blow that all up.  With the number of BB disciples around the league, it's possible he thought, no, he might not be around later. I agree it's a reach, but we don't have BB's information.  He's not infallible, but he's also not, as another thread so colorfully put it, a clown.  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I hear what he has to say about the kid, and I see him on the field.
    Posted by MattC05



    there were 50 other players ranked way higher than him.
    it would not have hurt us if he were drafted by another team
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : No link, I heard Mayock say this right after the Pats drafted him on NFL channel. I forget who, but another talking head said that BB had personally worked him out in Champagne.  It was either on NFL network or espn, I was switching back and forth.
    Posted by MoreRings



    i think mayock's "rising" may have been a reflexive reation. what else could he do, sit quiet with a dumb look on his face like all teh other draft experts (mayock, casserly, mcshay) when this pick came in from the genius one, bb.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moskk. Show moskk's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : i think mayock's "rising" may have been a reflexive reation. what else could he do, sit quiet with a dumb look on his face like all teh other draft experts (mayock, casserly, mcshay) when this pick came in from the genius one, bb.
    Posted by bredbru


    So far we seem to accept this draft pick if only it had occurred several rounds later.  We acknowledge that he is a standout ST player but wonder why he deserves to be drafted this high.  Perhaps another team was also interested (Atlanta?) in drafting Tavon so we needed to accelerate his selection? Why WOULD Atlanta be interested in Tavon?

    We know that the safety position has gained importance in this pass-happy league and that needs exist across the board.  It's now reported that BB had a workout with Tavon prior to the draft.  Why would BB work this guy out??? Why was Atlanta interested too?

    Did Mayock miss something about Tavon that others found and is Mayock so highly regarded that his ratings influenced the "Kipers" in the scouting clubs?

    It has been suggested in this blog and elsewhere that an ideal safety conversion-type should be a previous CB. Tavon was a CB until TEAM NEEDS forced him to play safety.  In view of the fact that the safety position has gained so much recognition as a critical defensive team need....why was Tavon PICKED to convert to safety?

    The Illi coach, when asked his opinion on Tavon, said that Tavon was his most "consistent defender".  A player with the smarts to quickly learn a new position and still retain his coaches admiration as the team's "most consistent defender". A player who could play CB and who was quickly gaining respect as a safety. 

    It would appear that the Pats found a highly motivated but  "raw" football player who excels on ST and who promises versatility at both CB and safety.  Since he is only just climbing the ladder of proficiency at safety, BB thinks that Tavon demonstrates the potential for significant upside as a safety.  In addition, Tavon MUST have shown something special  when he worked out for BB!

    It's obvious that BB had information about Tavon that, perhaps, only Atlanta (recall the connection of Atlanta staff personnel to the Pats) also knew.  Was the selection a "BUST" in its infancy or are we about to be bemused as Tavon proves to Mayock (and other would-be gurus) that he, not Smith, should have been the second highest rated safety on the board? I think it unlikely that BB would have made three excellent selections (so far) and missed so badly at 48!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : So far we seem to accept this draft pick if only it had occurred several rounds later.  We acknowledge that he is a standout ST player but wonder why he deserves to be drafted this high.  Perhaps another team was also interested (Atlanta?) in drafting Tavon so we needed to accelerate his selection? Why WOULD Atlanta be interested in Tavon? We know that the safety position has gained importance in this pass-happy league and that needs exist across the board.  It's now reported that BB had a workout with Tavon prior to the draft.  Why would BB work this guy out??? Why was Atlanta interested too? Did Mayock miss something about Tavon that others found and is Mayock so highly regarded that his ratings influenced the "Kipers" in the scouting clubs? It has been suggested in this blog and elsewhere that an ideal safety conversion-type should be a previous CB. Tavon was a CB until TEAM NEEDS forced him to play safety.  In view of the fact that the safety position has gained so much recognition as a critical defensive team need....why was Tavon PICKED to convert to safety? The Illi coach, when asked his opinion on Tavon, said that Tavon was his most "consistent defender".  A player with the smarts to quickly learn a new position and still retain his coaches admiration as the team's "most consistent defender". A player who could play CB and who was quickly gaining respect as a safety.  It would appear that the Pats found a highly motivated but  "raw" football player who excels on ST and who promises versatility at both CB and safety.  Since he is only just climbing the ladder of proficiency at safety, BB thinks that Tavon demonstrates the potential for significant upside as a safety.  In addition, Tavon MUST have shown something special  when he worked out for BB! It's obvious that BB had information about Tavon that, perhaps, only Atlanta (recall the connection of Atlanta staff personnel to the Pats) also knew.  Was the selection a "BUST" in its infancy or are we about to be bemused as Tavon proves to Mayock (and other would-be gurus) that he, not Smith, should have been the second highest rated safety on the board? I think it unlikely that BB would have made three excellent selections (so far) and missed so badly at 48!
    Posted by moskk



    if you are right great.
    if atlanta got him there are 24 other safeties rated ahead of him (no inlcuing nbarron adn smith)
    and 50-100 players rated ahead of him still available.

    we are where we are,
    so yeah. hope hes great.

    re:"I think it unlikely that BB would have made three excellent selections (so far) and missed so badly at 48!"

    except that he has done the same for numerous other picks in other drafts, especially at db and wr.

    hope hes a nice guy AND A STUD!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrogLegs. Show FrogLegs's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Draft experts please explain:
    Yesterday when the Pats moved up twice, it seemed the feeling on the board was the Pats were "going for it" this year. But today, they take a reach/development pick and trade out of the 2nd round with the other pick.  Kinda the opposite of going for it. So why the different strategies over the two days?
    Posted by Patsman3


    To me BB pulled the trigger on Wilson because he found no one to trade that first 2nd round pick and knew he would trade the 2nd one for 3rd day picks. So I ask myself: if he needed so badly draft picks for the 3rd day why trading up twice in the first place?
    It looks at first like a bad strategy. Time will tell.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Draft experts please explain:
    Yesterday when the Pats moved up twice, it seemed the feeling on the board was the Pats were "going for it" this year....

    Posted by Patsman3

    Whoever may have said that is clueless to begin with, if that comment was based on their draft strategy. You don't "go for it" with rookies. The fact is it's unlikely any of the guys they drafted will be difference makers this year, that's just not how the NFL works. They all might become all-pros (or not) eventually, but not in 2012.

    Whether they make it back to the Super Bowl this year or not will not be determined by anybody they, or anybody else for that matter, added to their roster in this draft. The players they drafted last year are far more important in that respect. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from stegall85. Show stegall85's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : No link, I heard Mayock say this right after the Pats drafted him on NFL channel. I forget who, but another talking head said that BB had personally worked him out in Champagne.  It was either on NFL network or espn, I was switching back and forth.
    Posted by MoreRings

    Mayock did say he was rising but he also instantly pulled up the graphic with the kid's measurables. He certainly knew who Wilson was and I believe his little side graphic showed Wilson as his #8 safety. Yes, I realize that's still low.

    Combine that with Reiss' article that 7 teams worked him out and 2 more, one being the Pats, held private workouts. So 9 teams apparently thought he was worth a look despite his not being at the combine.

    Don't disagree about it being a reach but maybe he wasn't as far off the collective radar as it first seemed?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    No one drafts a special teams 'ace' in round two, and we already have some ST aces on the coverage side. You may move a player a little higher on your board because he is a demon on ST as well as being a ______ (fill in the blank S/CB/WR/RB.) And our hole on ST is KR not gunner.
    Personally, I have as much faith in converting Slater to Safety with a full off season as in Wilson.
    I guess the Gregory signhing was REALLY important!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    To me BB pulled the trigger on Wilson because he found no one to trade that first 2nd round pick and knew he would trade the 2nd one for 3rd day picks. So I ask myself: if he needed so badly draft picks for the 3rd day why trading up twice in the first place?
    It looks at first like a bad strategy. Time will tell


    This ^   The whole NFL now sees St Louis in a position to do damage in the draft for years to come. They looked at BB like that as well. So what they did to BB they (the league) will do to Fisher. Refuse to trade with him and make him use his picks. They said that the Pats were on the phone time the last second on the pick. I don't think BB could trade the pick and grabbed a guy that WILL be on the field. Even if its ST.
    I wont argue the reach thing but all I have asked of BB's picks is that they play. If they get on the field even if he's a gunner I say its a good pick. Other then Gronk our 2nd round hasn't been a happy place. We're thin at safety so if the kid can even come in on packages I'll be happy.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain : i think mayock's "rising" may have been a reflexive reation. what else could he do, sit quiet with a dumb look on his face like all teh other draft experts (mayock, casserly, mcshay) when this pick came in from the genius one, bb.
    Posted by bredbru


    Maybe so, he did say it thou.  Maybe I'm just trying to make myself feel a little
    better.  Hope BB knows more than we do!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Draft experts please explain

    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain:
    In Response to Re: Draft experts please explain :      AGAIN...it's not that the Pats took this guy...it's when they took him that stinks!!
    Posted by TexasPat


    Yeah, it's an inexplicable pick, but that's BB just being BB. At least coach BB told GM BB to get him some talent on D.

    It's a minor miracle (named Brady + Belichick) that we made it to the SB with that defense.
     
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