***Draft Thoughts***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: ***Draft Thoughts***

    In response to "Re: ***Draft Thoughts***": [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts*** : we had a shot at players near the likes of andre johnson and took a guy who wouldnt have beeen drafted. to me inexcusable Posted by bredbru[/QUOTE] You really think there were guys like Andre Johnson? Who's in a class with Andre Johnson in the NFL, Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald. All those guys were top 5 picks. I don't see anyone outside of Blackmon even close to that level. Just because a guy is big doesn't make him elite. To me, a lot of those guys are just TE's playing in a spread offense. Once every 2 or 3 years a draft might have one guy who is at that truly elite level. But , there were some good WRs left and a lot of other players. I'm not convinced Wilson wasn't one of them because I didn't scout. Even if I did I'm not a pro scout, and I didn't watch his personal workouts. Most importantly, I haven't seen him or anyone else play in the NFL. I'm sure there will be a few players in rounds 3-7 who end up being greater than their early round counterparts. Happens every year. So, you'll always have that to hang your hat on when it happens.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    i loved all of your comments.


    "The Wilson pick made me want to throw up. He was their best player on the board at that point? These kind of picks absolutely kill me, they select a guy that may not be selected in this entire draft and you do it in the second round? We always talk about how we tricked the Jets into thinking we were going to select Gholston...who tricked us into thinking they were going to reach 5 rounds to select an undersized 25th ranked safety?"

    i loved this:

     "We always talk about how we tricked the Jets into thinking we were going to select Gholston...who tricked us into thinking they were going to reach 5 rounds to select an undersized 25th ranked safety?"


    The trade was also a head scratcher. We talk all day about value and then we do this? I really think when Wolfe came off the board it threw a monkey wrench into their plans for the second round. I think as good as the first round went for them, the second round was a disaster - a lot of the players I think they wanted were gone.

    yes but there a ton of very good players left, esp. big outside wrs.

    I liked Bequette too. He looks like a nice 43 defensive end to me. A non stop hustling player, with some good athleticism and length. He looks like he's strong as well. I would hope both he and Chandler could play outside in a 34, but man that seams like a reach to me at that spot. Maybe they are going to modify the responsibilities of the position for these two? That could be the case, the Steelers do that sort of thing for there outside guys...Jason Gildon wasn't a play in space player and he was a productive 34 linebacker.

    "but man that seams like a reach to me at that spot."

    probably so.

    he was set to get edge guys and took the ones on the board available that he had selected.


    certainly not how i layed out what i wanted to do in the draft (after round 1),
    nor how i would have executed it after round 1.  I would have gone for high impact players over near negligible ones no matter if it meant less picks.

    i also dont know why we didnt bid for the toughness and playmaking of figgins in fa. a guy who can stand up to andre johnson (both on teh field and in a fight when johnson threw down), is a guy you can use on your side

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]I too was wondering about day 2 ... but have to like the focus on Defense this draft. * Jones looks to have huge upside -- and another Big Willie type is a 10 year positive move ... * I recall a lot of talk that Hightower was the next Ray Lewis - and the Ravens wanted him ... even if he is the next "1/2" Ray Lewis we will have many happier defensive third downs next year * Hard to know what is behind the Wilson pick -- but a lot of good players were available (see Texaspat's list) - including a few DBs that were mocked to us --- so I think about how I felt when we went for Seabass in the second and look how well that turned out ... I assume our coaches know a lot more about fit than we do. * like the Bequette pick - seems to be a Patriots type of guy. * figure a flyer on a WR or an OL pick remains ...
    Posted by mbear3915[/QUOTE]

    we are infinitely better at picking o line than db
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts*** :
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]


    tex, any cahnce you can increase teh size of yoru characters.
    i want to reaad it, but its a little difficult becasue of the size (even in bold).

    thanks
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts*** :      Correction...this had the potential of being a great draft...until the Wilson pick yesterday.
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]


    my sentimenst exaclty.
    we could have played the sdraft liek a fiddle liek several other teams did getting several game changers.
    as it is we did this only in rd 1 (but not in the reaminder of teh draft) imo
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts*** :
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    agree with everything you said
    (dotn know why your text does nor transfer when replied to.

    especially the conclusion:


    This literary graveyard of missed opportunities is the main reason why the Patriots' haven't won another SB since the 2004 season.


    bb hits yes
    but he misses badly especially at certain positions frequently
    where he couldve had several other very (more) talented players
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In response to "Re: ***Draft Thoughts***": You really think there were guys like Andre Johnson? Who's in a class with Andre Johnson in the NFL, Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald. All those guys were top 5 picks. I don't see anyone outside of Blackmon even close to that level. Just because a guy is big doesn't make him elite. To me, a lot of those guys are just TE's playing in a spread offense. Once every 2 or 3 years a draft might have one guy who is at that truly elite level. But , there were some good WRs left and a lot of other players. I'm not convinced Wilson wasn't one of them because I didn't scout. Even if I did I'm not a pro scout, and I didn't watch his personal workouts. Most importantly, I haven't seen him or anyone else play in the NFL. I'm sure there will be a few players in rounds 3-7 who end up being greater than their early round counterparts. Happens every year. So, you'll always have that to hang your hat on when it happens.
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    thanks for your points.
    i said "near" the class of those players please note. and one example of a potential big stud wr (and one i liked) is jeffery.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mar10. Show mar10's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts*** :      Jones likely would have been gone, had the Pats not made a move on him. Houston at #26 (who ended up taking pass-rusher Whitney Mercilus), Detroit at #23, or Cleveland at #22, might have taken him...plus there was always the possibility that Baltimore, the Giants, or Green Bay would have moved up to get him. As for Hightower, Baltimore would have definately nabbed him at #29.       I have no problem with what and why the Pats did what they did on day one. But, day two is an entirely different story. The Pats didn't get the value they should have gotten out of their two second round picks. They basically squandered them. Very disappointing.
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    Listen Tex,

    I've been a draftnik for 25 years. I read all the draft books, watch the combine, the senior bowl, follow the draft rankings from January til April, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    After 25 years of this I KNOW 1 thing for sure.

    That is... That the general public, the media, and most draftniks (with apologies to the late and great Joel B) know little more than what they see on television or read from some other source.  Most of what we know comes from people who have never met, timed, measured, studied, coached, or tested any of these athletes.

    The entire draft media industry is just entertainment.  The real work and opinions of the the people who evaluate the athletes is never known to us.  HECK THEY AREN'T GOING TO SHARE IT WITH OTHER NFL TEAMS WHAT THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO SHARE IT WITH THE DRAFT MEDIA.  Granted the Draft Media are full of guys who may have worked in the industry but they are no longer in the NFL thus they do not have a small army of scouts working the nation's college campuses gathering information.  They may have a few connections but I highly doubt that a scout working for BB is going to throw out any USEFUL info to ANY member of the media.

    I'ts great fun to talk about and speculate where and when each player was selected.  I get it I love to do it as well.

    ... But to hear you and a few others blather on about how this guy was picked too high and would have been available later in the draft so therefore this was a bad value...

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  Not even BB knows exactly when a player is going to get picked but I guess you do!  Not even BB knows for sure if a player is a good fit for his team but I guess you do!  Not even BB knows if all the info that his sources have gathered will translate into a good pick... But I guess you do!  

    Sorry this was so long winded but to summarize I am just stating that this is all good fun but please stop taking yourself so seriously.  You really don't know what you think you know.  Most of the posters on this site probably have digested the same media as you and we may even have the same opinion about Tavon Wilson but most of us realize that BB might just know a little bit more than we do.

    Thank you.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbear3915. Show mbear3915's posts

    Re: ***Draft Thoughts***

    Nice perspective mar10.

    Hindsight is always 20:20 ... no doubt there will be busts and sleepers all across this draft ... and I agree 100% with your points about predicting draft selections.

    One thing is certain: our defense will be better now ... and we were a team that was a few plays from winning the Super Bowl. 


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: ***Draft Thoughts***

    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts*** : Listen Tex, I've been a draftnik for 25 years. I read all the draft books, watch the combine, the senior bowl, follow the draft rankings from January til April, yadda, yadda, yadda. After 25 years of this I KNOW 1 thing for sure. That is... That the general public, the media, and most draftniks (with apologies to the late and great Joel B) know little more than what they see on television or read from some other source.  Most of what we know comes from people who have never met, timed, measured, studied, coached, or tested any of these athletes. The entire draft media industry is just entertainment.  The real work and opinions of the the people who evaluate the athletes is never known to us.  HECK THEY AREN'T GOING TO SHARE IT WITH OTHER NFL TEAMS WHAT THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO SHARE IT WITH THE DRAFT MEDIA.  Granted the Draft Media are full of guys who may have worked in the industry but they are no longer in the NFL thus they do not have a small army of scouts working the nation's college campuses gathering information.  They may have a few connections but I highly doubt that a scout working for BB is going to throw out any USEFUL info to ANY member of the media. I'ts great fun to talk about and speculate where and when each player was selected.  I get it I love to do it as well. ... But to hear you and a few others blather on about how this guy was picked too high and would have been available later in the draft so therefore this was a bad value... ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  Not even BB knows exactly when a player is going to get picked but I guess you do!  Not even BB knows for sure if a player is a good fit for his team but I guess you do!  Not even BB knows if all the info that his sources have gathered will translate into a good pick... But I guess you do!   Sorry this was so long winded but to summarize I am just stating that this is all good fun but please stop taking yourself so seriously.  You really don't know what you think you know.  Most of the posters on this site probably have digested the same media as you and we may even have the same opinion about Tavon Wilson but most of us realize that BB might just know a little bit more than we do. Thank you.
    Posted by mar10[/QUOTE]

    THANK YOU!

    I appreciate those who are passionate, seek to be knowledgable and contribute to the board but some posters are taking themselves too seriously and this creates an arrogant or entitled attitude that is unpleasant. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: ***Draft Thoughts***

    Thoughts on Day 3:

    1.  Nate Ebner looks like the latest BB project, he clearly enjoys trying to find a diamond in the rough that may have little to no experience, but a very translatable skill set.  I wouldn't preferred taking more of a proven commodity and already ST standout in Iowa S Jordan Bernstine, but I look forward to seeing how this kid performs in camp.

    2.  Alfonzo Dennard is pure value.  Day 2 talent that fell due to poor decision making... kid needs to smarten up, but you drafted him at a spot where there is little to no risk... excellent, excellent pick.

    3.  Jeremey Ebert looks like the prototype BB slot guy.  Good speed and COD, smart (Northwestern is a high level academic institution), tough, good route runner, catches the ball well and has been productive.  Not a lot you can say bad about the pick.  Got a chance to see him beat Tavon Wilson over the top for a TD when checking out his tape.

    Overall, excellent 3rd day.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

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    Final thoughts:

    I love what they did in this draft.

    1.  The addressed their pass rush needs.

    2.  They'v added huge potential upside to their front 7.

    3.  They've added a ton of size, length, production and versatility.

    4.  They've added a lot of leadership and character.

    5.  They've added much needed secondary help, one coming with huge value.

    6.  They've added another potential weapon to the offensive mix.

    7.  They've added special teams upside.

    I'm stoked!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: ***Draft Thoughts***

    Regarding Wilson and safeties - I was interested to see no one was interested in Martin or Iloka until the very back end of the draft - and these were guys with 3-4th round grades. Obviously a tough position for everyone to grade.
    I do like the last three picks - seems like an interesting mix with some good athleticism and one fallen star.
    So ... who is our KR guy. From what I can see in write-ups none of the draftees have done this in college so it is either someone already on the roster or a FA pick-up. Did wonder if BB was looking at Rainey in the fifth - he got pciked up a few spots before and then we traded back.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]Regarding Wilson and safeties - I was interested to see no one was interested in Martin or Iloka until the very back end of the draft - and these were guys with 3-4th round grades. Obviously a tough position for everyone to grade. I do like the last three picks - seems like an interesting mix with some good athleticism and one fallen star. So ... who is our KR guy. From what I can see in write-ups none of the draftees have done this in college so it is either someone already on the roster or a FA pick-up. Did wonder if BB was looking at Rainey in the fifth - he got pciked up a few spots before and then we traded back.
    Posted by mia76[/QUOTE]


    I just watched tape of Iloka and Wilson and honestly I thought Wilson looked much better (granted my sample is small).  On the videos I saw, Wilson plays with more energy I thought and seems to be in on just about every play.  By comparison Iloka looked tentative and often seemed marginalized on plays.  I'm going to look up film on a few of the other safeties rated higher than Wilson as I have time today.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to ***Draft Thoughts*** :      What happened, or, perhaps more correctly, didn't happen last night, certainly put a damper on things. Loved day one...and the Jones/Hightower picks. As for Wilson, even if he pans out...the Pats had no business taking him with their 48th overall pick. Not good value for that pick. Also dissatisfied with the "value" obtained for pick #62.         Hope I'm dead wrong about day two.  
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]

    TP SHAME ON YOU!!!!
     IF WILSON pans out and he fills the items that BB wants then they did have business taking him with that pick.  GIVE ME A BREAK!   To say that "IF" the guy is great BB still was wrong... is MORONIC!

    I have to give BB the benefit of the doubt on this pick until we see if he really saw anything in this kid when they visited.   IF this kid becomes a Rodney Harrison type then how the heck can you say it was still wrong.
    Reports I read said he was a hard hitter and could support stopping the run... and guard a #3 WR in those formations....    WHAT DID BB SEE?
    How many times last year did the oposition convert a third down?... Does BB see something?

    Look I know that it appears that they picked this kid way before most other teams would have chosen him....  BUT DO WE KNOW THAT FOR A FACT?   DO we know for a fact that no one else would have had any interest in his skill set before BB picked next?

    SHAME ON YOU....  IF this guy pans out then it was not a reach... it was BB showing that he knows better than all of us what the team needs and how to fiull the spot....

    TP... slap your own wrist and re-word that statement....LOL    If the kid turns out to warrant a selection in that spot then we should all bow to the knowledge of BB.... right now all we have is Plastic hair and airhead (McSHay and Kiper) saying no way.  WHAT DID BB SEE IN HIS INDIVIDUAL MEETING?  I'd have to say if this kid comes in and plays like Harrison ( I am not saying he will) then he is a steal at that spot in the draft.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts*** :      With players that the Pats could have really used, such as:   49. Chargers - Kendall Reyes - DT - Connecticut 50. Rams - Isaiah Pead - RB - Cincinnati 51. Packers - Jerel Worthy - DT - Michigan State 52. Titans - Zach Brown - LB - North Carolina 53. Bengals - Devon Still - DT - Penn State 54. Lions - Ryan Broyles - WR - Oklahoma 55. Falcons - Peter Konz - C - Wisconsin 56. Steelers - Mike Adams - OT - Ohio State 57. Broncos - Brock Osweiler - QB - Arizona State 58. Buccaneers - Lavonte David - OLB - Nebraska 59. Eagles - Vinny Curry - DE - Marshall 60. Ravens - Kelechi Osemele - OG - Iowa State 61. 49ers - LaMichael James - RB - Oregon 62. Packers - Casey Hayward - CB - Vanderbilt 63. Giants - Rueben Randle - WR - LSU 64. Colts - Dwayne Allen -TE - Clemson 65. Rams - Trumaine Johnson - CB - Montana  66. Vikings - Josh Robinson - CB - Central Florida  the Wilson selection really bites. Hope I'm wrong.    
    Posted by TexasPat[/QUOTE]
    Did I miss a hard hitting safety/CB type who can support run stuffing and still cover a #3 WR in that list?   It is still my contention that BB knew what he needed and that is part of what I read about this Wilson kid.   I see no one else that fits that bill in the list you posted.... so MAYBE.... and that is JUST MAYBE...   BB thought out of the box.....
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jj73cuda. Show jj73cuda's posts

    Re: ***Draft Thoughts***

    Roster Projection-
    QB – Brady, Hoyer, Mallett
    TE – Gronk, Hernandez, Fells
    WR – Welker, Lloyd, Branch, Gonzalez, Slater, Edelman/Emery/Stallworth
    RB – Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead
    FB/HB – Larsen
    OT – Solder, Vollmer, Cannon (PUP) Zusevics
    OG – Mankins, Waters, Gallery, Wendell, Warren
    OC – Connolly, Koppen
    ST’s – Gostowski, Mesko, Aiken
    DE – A. Carter, M. Carter, Jones, Bequette
    DT – Wilfork, Love, Fanane, Deadrick, Forston
    LB – Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Ninkovich, Scott, Fletcher
    CB – McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore, Allen
    S – Chung, Wilson, Denard, Gregory

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jj73cuda. Show jj73cuda's posts

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    He also saw this kid when he was out there giving some kind of speech to the college...so BB knows more than we do ..that's for sure
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from kansaspatriot. Show kansaspatriot's posts

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    VERY

    HAPPY
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from sydpat. Show sydpat's posts

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    Texas Agree with you.... How does Curry, Thompson , Dennard sound vs Wilson, Bequette, Ebner as selections?????
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

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    In Response to Re: ***Draft Thoughts***:
    [QUOTE]Final thoughts: I love what they did in this draft. 1.  The addressed their pass rush needs. 2.  They'v added huge potential upside to their front 7. 3.  They've added a ton of size, length, production and versatility. 4.  They've added a lot of leadership and character. 5.  They've added much needed secondary help, one coming with huge value. 6.  They've added another potential weapon to the offensive mix. 7.  They've added special teams upside. I'm stoked!
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    Agree on all 7 points. Just heard Jim Miller on Sirius talking about how good a player Wilson is. He said "no surprise here" This kid can play football!

    We are deep at most positions. I really think we need a vet RB and I'm sure we will get one.

    Go Pats!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: ***Draft Thoughts***

    I really like what BB did in the draft, but I've learned never to get my hopes up too high until you see these guys play.  On paper everyone sounds good.  On the field, it's all still to be seen . . . 
     

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