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  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RandyMossinThem. Show RandyMossinThem's posts

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    wr playing Linebacker never seen it never will lol
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

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    [Quote]Ush, Spikes is BIGTIME and I would love to get him. But I see so many scenarios where ILB is "fixed" via FA, so I am not holding out much hope.

    1.) Payfor Suggs andmove Vrabel inside like in 2004-5. He did great there then and is one of the few LBers on the dquad that can actually stack and shed.

    2.) Get someone like Dansby and move Vrabel in or Keep Dansby in.

    3.) Get Bart Scott outright.

    4.) Some LB is returned in a trade for Cassel like the trade Reiss proposed that would have Chad Greenway and lower picks comig from Minny in return for Cassel.

    Gresham is all that is man. He would add a new diimension to this offense. I can't help but feel that in the absence of a pressing need at LB NE would go with OL in that area. But Gresham would be a great selection.

    I don't think Asomugha's performance against Moss rules him out. I think his salary bracket does though. Not many players can shut down Moss one-on-one. In fact, I can't think of any in the NFL.[/Quote]

    Agree on Ashmougha ZB and I might say the same about Suggs if the Ravens don't re-up. We can all debate who will be franchised (Suggs. Ashmougha and maybe Dansby) and who won't. Regarding any FAs it's always a good idea to look at the cap situation of their present teams. One of the reasons I mentioned Baltimore in an early draft thread was because of their cap situation and the FAs they had entering the market. Can they sign them all (Lewis, Scott, Landry and ofcourse Suggs) ? Gresham would be a decent selection, I just don't see TE as being as big a priority right now as SS, OL or OLB. Mays would have been a top 15 (10?)so that does alter things a little.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

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    Um, the secondary most certainly does not matter. Hobbs and Samuel were just fine in 2005-07. You're saying Samuel (before he was good) and Gay were better? Granted, Eugene Wilson played pretty well in 2004. Anywho, our secondary is fine. Let's get better up front.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    How many championships did NE win in 2005-6-7?

    Almost all of NE's failures on defense over the past three-four seasons stem right to tackling and coverage failures.

    While on the other hand, Ne was generating as many sacks then than they did when they won Championships. The core of this defnese (front three) is all-pro. The OLB position could use a star.

    We have no Rodney Harrison and no Ty Law. Those men made our defense great. They could cover, play zone, tackle and blitz.

    Samuel and Hobbs can play zone and do a little cover, no press, and at that
    is it. Rodney has been hurt and lately has lost a step.

    NE needs a BIGTIME safety and at leastone corner who can make a stop. They also need a pass-rusher, but you simply cannot keep running Hobbs, Sanders, and whoever else out there as 3/4 of your back four and expect good results.

    If you disagree that is fine, but I am pretty sure BB will be addressing the part of NE's defense that keeps it on the feild, and it isn't going to involve shopping for Sey or Fork's replacement.

    All things done, we know he is furious about the 3rd down numbers and I think 2009 might be for DBs what 2007 was for WR. They recognize an error in letting talent slide away to age and free agency, and take measures to correct this.

    There are low-ish cost targets that can address this like Robinson, Gamble and a few others, and there is no shortage of DB talent in this draft.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    I don't think Mays not declaring injures NE's plans. He would have been gone a few spots ahead of where they pick anyhow, and no one is going to reach down simply because they want a safety (although a case could made for doing it).

    Any FA is likely to be outproced.

    But Sugss will make like $8 MAX $9 million. Asomugha will make $11 MAX who knows what because corners are so prized right now that each deal tops the one before it, and he is far better than Samuel or Trufant or Hall, who all got close to $10 million. He will be looking to make a splash the way that Bailey did a few seasons ago. Different brackets entirely.

    No the Ravens can't sign all of them.

    And I feel the same way about Gresham. He would be a nice addition, but Ne needs another Safety an OLB and an OT/G.

    Heck I think I would take a dominant runner before a TE. but that is just me.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    I don't think Mays not declaring injures NE's plans. He would have been gone a few spots ahead of where they pick anyhow, and no one is going to reach down simply because they want a safety (although a case could made for doing it).

    Any FA is likely to be outproced.

    But Sugss will make like $8 MAX $9 million. Asomugha will make $11 MAX who knows what because corners are so prized right now that each deal tops the one before it, and he is far better than Samuel or Trufant or Hall, who all got close to $10 million. He will be looking to make a splash the way that Bailey did a few seasons ago. Different brackets entirely.

    No the Ravens can't sign all of them.

    And I feel the same way about Gresham. He would be a nice addition, but Ne needs another Safety an OLB and an OT/G.

    Heck I think I would take a dominant runner before a TE. but that is just me.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

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    I say fix the DBs. The defensive backfield hasn't been the same since Law left. It showed some promise of being fixed but Samuel left and Harrison's age is starting catch up with him (injuries).

    I don't know what happened to the pass rush. It wasn't there for some reason. Who gets the blame in the front seven? The Pats have a lot of money tied up with these guys. What gives?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    I would say losing Adalius Thomas cost NE some sacks.

    NE lost eight sacks from Vrabel and probably four from AT. And got nearly ZERO production from Jarvis Green, who had his worst season as a Pat despite the fact that injuries forced NE to play more 4-3 subs than ever.

    A large part of Vrabel's dip has to do with sporadic production around him. Ne isn't getting the coverage sacks they have gotten in the past.

    I like Vrabel inside going forward, but I am comfortable with him outside if they cannot address the position.

    Green has been overpayed imo. He makes more money than Vrabel and has not been the kind of contributor that is earning it, especially not in 2008.

    If I am NE I trade him and use the $2.5 million cap savings (the would stil have to pay old bonus money) to add a player like Suggs who can play 4-3 DE or OLB. Then move Vrabel inside, where he could lengthen his career as a run stuffer.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

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    Z,

    So what you're saying is that Rodney Harrison by himself in 2004 made the secondary better than Samuel and Hobbs when they were at their best in 2006, or Samuel, Hobbs and Harrison in 2007? I don't think so.

    We've already addressed the secondary in the past two drafts with Merriweather, Wheatley and Wilhite. Hobbs is good and we've been developing Sanders for our system. Those 5 guys are a fine secondary.

    We need to groom talent around the big 3. I don't know what Green's problem was this year but he excelled in the final games of the season. We can't toss him aside because of one bad year. Vrabel, Colvin, and AD are approaching the end of their careers so we should try to find replacements for them. Maybe there's no one who can fill in (Suggs doesn't count cause he comes from the dirty criminal Ravens). In that case, we just add depth all around the team, though guard is looking like the area of quickest need once Mankins and Neal leave after this year.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    If you think our secondary is fine, kudos. I think it is one of the worst in the AFC. Wilhite isn't even a starter. And Wheatley has yet to play more than nine games without breaking his wrist. Merriweather is coming on, but Hobbs ia a number two. That is it.

    More important, are you comparing this secondary to one that includes Ty Law, Ty Poole, Harrison in his prime. Which is a poor comparison.

    Yes, we could use another playmaker in the LB corp, but this secondary is broken almost beyond repair and nees another two playmakers if they can get them. And I won't count on Wheatley for anything until he proves his wrist can stay healthy AND he can play at the NFL level, neither of which has been proven.

    Harrison has been past his prime for three seasons and was not even close to being the kind of factor in 2007 that he was in 2004.

    In 04 Rodney had 129 tackles, two picks three FF and three sacks. In 03 he had three picks two FF three sacks and 125 tackles.

    If you ADD 2005-2008 together you get a season that is about the same statistically speaking as just '04 OR '05.

    Yes, he was a difference maker. No Merriweather is NOT Rodney Harrison. Not yet. Sanders is a decent backup playing a starting role that is it. He ahn't been groomed for anything and is likely gone this season anyhow.

    Vrabel is winding it down but has more than a good year or two left. Adalius Thomas is in his prime, and will be for another four seasons. I don't know why you bring up Colvin because won't be back either way and was a desperation move.

    On the same token I could say that they drafted Mayo, Crable, Redd, Rudd, etc, and have Woods coming back, and that group is fine.

    I don't think either group is fine, but a LB corp that has Thomas, Vrabel and Mayo is far better than what NE has in the secondary and when healthy compares well with McGinest, Vrabel and Bruschi of yore.

    The difference between this year and last was p!ss poor secondary and debilitating injuries to the front seven.

    And lastly, there is nothing criminal about the Ravens. I have no idea what you are getting on about, but I would take Suggs any day of the week. FFS, Rodney has amassed more in fines for late hits than the entire Ravens defense put together.

    I fI had my druthers they would add LB via FA and secondary help via the draft. It might not happen that way, but they aren't done revamping the defense,and adding talent in the secondary is likely their top concern closely followed by adding another LB.

    And Suggs would fit the bill excellently.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RandyMossinThem. Show RandyMossinThem's posts

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    ur a joke wilhite sucks and wheatly is just another hobbs seriously wee neeed a shutdown corner get serious guy
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    I would settle for a really good corner who can cover AND tackle. And a safety that makes heads up plays.

    We also could use another ILB, or OLb who can push Vrabel inside.

    It is really simple, the defense needs two players in the back four and one in the middle four.

    Given the cap space NE has, and the draftpicks it is likely to get from Cassel. I think this can be done with a combo of FA and draft, while still securing some young OL talent.

    Suggs, Dansby, Scott, Gamble, Robinson, Asomugha(long shot).

    Spikes, Davis, Chung, Ellison, and a host of solid OL prospects.

    And the likelyhood of four selections in the top 56, and six in the first few rounds, plus about $15 million of freed up space.

    Just like it did in 2003 when they revamped by adding talent, it can happen again and is even easier because they don't need to worry about finding DTs this time around.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

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    Yes, Wheatley is another Hobbs, because in case you haven't noticed, that's the kind of corner BB likes. I know all you guys want some seven foot tall, 250 pound corner who will squash wide receivers at the line of scrimmage, but BB actually knows what he's doing.

    All the LBs we took this year with the exception of Redd cannot play 3-4 OLB. Maybe Thomas, Vrabel and Colvin (I'm not giving up on him) will be fine for years, but they will be 32, 34, and 32 this season, whereas our CBs are in their mid-early 20s. So if you're looking for an area to get younger and add depth for the future, it's OLB.

    And Hobbs is a #1. He was ahead of Samuel in 2006 until Samuel transformed into left-side extroardinaire.

    I saw what Ed Reed did against the Titans on Saturday. He tried to paralyze Chris Johnson after the play was dead. That is unlike anything I've seen. I'm not talking cheapshots and late hits here. I'm talking criminal assault. Suggs is his teammate and has to share responsibility for that. He's not welcome here.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

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    Z,

    You're the best capologist here. We have about $20M in space but also are losing 20 players. So if we only have $20M to fill 20 spots, doesn't that severely limit us?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RandyMossinThem. Show RandyMossinThem's posts

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    malcom jenkins would be nice but hes goin really early
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    Don't have a shot at Jenkins. So he is out of the question.

    The Pats need to add another CB. I think someone like Chris Gamble would be a perfect addition, at a decent price that would give NE insurance in case Hobbs goes elsewhere.

    NE just needs to make sure it has two viable starters this season, as opposed to last year when they went into the season with one #2 corner and a handful of rejects and fragile rookies. I would rather add another safety via the draft than a CB because they can be had lower and are a much safer selection. Ne could select any two safeties in the second that would be as good as Sanders has been.

    They can then use their likely two first rounders to get LB help and OL help.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RandyMossinThem. Show RandyMossinThem's posts

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    crable can play 3 4 and so can all of are lbs u think every lb we draft plays 3 4 no but they adapt as did mayo ...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    First, Hobb is not and never will be a #1. It is jsut a fact.I don't care how big a corner is. All things equal you take a taller guy, but they still need to tackle and play press, two things Hobbs can't do. I don't ever want to see him go, but he is what he is. #2. Antoine Winfield is a classic example. He isn't big, but it the best tackling and press corner in his conference (maybe was he is getting old now). It isn't about size, it is skill. Second, if you are going to say Wheatley is anything I would need proof of that to have it really be credible. He played OK, and hurt his wrist and for the fourth time in four seasons he needs surgery.

    Colvin is disco, done, ova'. He barely registered a tackle last season and couldn't lock on with Houston. He was a worst case signing that gave NE a body. He won't be back.

    As far as the cap, look at the twenty players that are leaving. About fifteen of them are practice squad bubble players. Here is the list. Five have already resigned. Cassel is gone regardless. I have no issues losing Jordan. Wecan replace his output just by keeping BJGE. Hochstein, Paxton, Sanders and Harrison are all people to be replaced or resigned. And given their production levels it should be very cheap. I don't know if Izzo is going to retire or not. Paxton is a long snapper and comes very cheap.

    Factoring in Moss and AT raises in cap numbers and the money it will take to replace these cats or resign them, NE stands to have about $15million free cap space, after jetisoning dead weight amortizations from Dillon, Brady, etc.

    Some of that money will go to signing draft picks. That leaves a little money left over to sign at least one bigtime FA OR a couple additions.

    QB Matt Cassel UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    RB LaMont Jordan UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    FB Heath Evans UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    WR Jabar Gaffney UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    P Chris Hanson UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    P Tom Malone Re-signed New England Patriots New England Patriots
    OG Russ Hochstein UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    C Lonie Paxton UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    C Ryan Wendell Re-signed New England Patriots New England Patriots
    DL Titus Adams Re-signed New England Patriots New England Patriots
    DL Angelo Craig Re-signed New England Patriots New England Patriots
    DL Darrell Robertson Re-signed New England Patriots New England Patriots
    LB Ryan Claridge UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    LB Larry Izzo UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    SS Rodney Harrison UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
    SS James Sanders UFA New England Patriots Free Agent
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    Second, I would ask you to support the assertion that Crable and Redd cannot play 3-4??

    Wheatley is Hobbs, and Hobbs is a #1 corner, but the same brains drafted two busts at OLB???

    We don't know that. So adding OLB and CB talent is still a priority.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RandyMossinThem. Show RandyMossinThem's posts

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    im not impressed with james sandfers at all and really think we could get a better safety a hard hitter and put merrriweather back at fs were he belongs
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

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    I don't think it matters. Someone will offer Sanders more than NE will pay, and they will replace him. It is that simple. He isn't anything special. Is a soft tackler, gets beat in the open field, and isn't an opportunisitc zone DB. He is at best mediocre in every phase of the game. Average.

    Any rookie they draft could come in and do his job. Losing Sanders doesn't worry me much. If he agreed to come back forthe same $1million dollar salary I would take him. But any raise over that is questionable.

    And I see it as a chance to secure a player that could be much better than average, and at least could do what Sanders has done.It is a chance to clear underperforming salary out of the books.

    Pat Chung is a great second round prospect and in the second round would cost the same. The difference is he has a sky-high ceiling.

    The other player I would love to jetison is Green. I can't see based on any season he has had how me merits the $5million he counts against the cap. He is the fifth highest paid player on the team. They either need to extend him to bring that number down, trade him to clear his excess ~$3 mill against the cap, or cut him. A part time player simply doens't deserve that much cash.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

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    The problem with the secondary (even though our run D may have been worse) is that young players had step in and play well (Meriweather, Wheatley, Wilhite). Difficult task when you're a rookie. If you look at the Pats history with DBs (Wilson, Asante, Law, Gay) they tend to be better their 2nd or 3rd seasons rather than their first. So, while the expectations are high, you do have to exhibit some patience regarding the secondary. It's an issue, but it can be partly solved by giving more playing time to the young players for them to learn. I do agree that SS is an issue because Rodney is older, and I also agree that this could be addressed during the 09 draft.

    The issue I have is that the Pats defense is not the top 6 or seven defense it was a season or two ago. I see the Ravens and Steelers front seven (3-4) as currently being better than our front seven. I believe that this is a problem that will be solved both by FA and the draft.

    Also believe are young players will get better whether that means putting them in nickel or dime packages or whatever. BTW injuries go a long way towards limiting a player's development (Crable, Wheatley) and it's not fair to assess a player's value after he has spent time on the PUP list. These players, unencumbered by injuries, will perfrom better in their 2nd or 3rd seasons so it's difficult for me to write them off after their rookie years, especially, when recent Pats history would indicate they will get better.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RandyMossinThem. Show RandyMossinThem's posts

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    true about wheatly and crable but gay sucked he didnt progress law was a first round pick and wilson was average as well and well asante was rare but was good u cant rely on the past especiall when wilson was ok gay sucked and law was a first rounder with talent
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

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    I never said Redd couldn't play 3-4 OLB. I said he was the only one we drafted last year who can. Crable is more of 4-3 LB pass-rush/coverage LB. Unless he bulks up substantially, he cannot set the edge in the running game, which is the first requirement for a 3-4OLB.

    I never said we drafted any busts ot OLB.

    You want a press corner, but we've done just fine without one for 4 years. Plus, unless you're really good at it, like Winfield, it's a risky tactic to play, as it's easier to get beat deep.
    Basically, I don't know why you guys are advocating that we change our entire philosophy at CB when we just spent two draft picks getting guys who fit our current philosophy. What is the point in wasting high picks on corners year after year? I think BB knew what he was doing when he took Wheatley and Wilhite and will move on to other areas with the day one picks. Maybe there are no guys who can play 3-4 OLB who can be taken on day one, but I strongly doubt he takes another corner or tries to get a new safety to learn a system that Sanders has mastered.
    On the other hand, we've got a lot of picks and no glaring needs, so I wouldn't be surprised by any position drafted. I expect him to spread the wealth around.

    Oh, and you think after we bring back the important guys, like Paxton, Gaffney, Izzo, Hanson, Evans, and Hochstein, we'll have $15M in space? That would be sweet. Let's use some of it to re-sign Seymour and Wilfork and hopefully Mankins.

     

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