draft

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bosox2398. Show bosox2398's posts

    draft

    What do you guys think about the Pats' draft philosophy? They are always trading out of their spot (s) in the draft, all to get more draft picks, but those extra picks have not worked out recently (ie Crable, Slater, Chung, Brace, etc.). I know Chung is a backup, but if the Pats had stayed where they were, they could have gotten a stud such as Clay Matthews, Kenny Britt, or Hakeem Nicks. Also, do you guys think the Pats will sign a big time free agent at receiver like Chris Chambers or Lance Moore?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from gfkr2. Show gfkr2's posts

    Re: draft

    What do you guys think about the Pats' draft philosophy?

    I hate it.  Belichick has done a poor job in trying to promote quantity at the expense of quality.  That the 2009 Patriots lack talent is no surprise given their draft priorities.  The Patriots better not draft a Tight End!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: draft

    Too early on all of them. It make more sense to evaluate after the 2nd or 3rd year. Even Wilfork was average his first year; same with Asante. I think Butler (who somehow did not get mentioned) will be the Pats starting corner within the next two years (with Wilhite in the nickel) Brace has to face comparisons to Fork which is unfair. Chung is a solid tackler, but the Pats have players at the safety position (Sanders, Meriweather, MacGown) that have more experience and better comprehension of the system. Unless you pick an impact player at the top of the first, the draft is all about the future and seldom happens instantaneously. Crable, MacKenzie, and Tate have all been injured so it is still far to early to assess.

    As for Mathews or Mauluaga or Britt they are all having great years and hindsight is 20/20. We'll have a more accurate picture of 2009 draft in 2010 and 2011. Not team gets rebuilt in single year. It just takes time.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: draft

    the draft philosophy fits the system. Just because some of the players listed are having gopod seasons with current teams, does not mean they would be playing at the same level with the Pats. Pats draft players they feel can fit the system, they don't draft players and make the system fit the players.
    Like it or not, the results speak for themselves, and until BB falters, this is the way the draft will always play out.
    Realistically, this was supposed to be a rebuild year, and 11 new faces are on the roster. 10-11 wins and (presumably) a playoff spot are not too bad in a rebuilding year
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: draft

    I think it's mostly a myth.  Before this last year the Pats have used a 1st round Draft pick every year since 2000.  They lost Bruschi, Harrison, Vrabel, and Seymour this year.  Two of those guys retired so they needed players.  Also, as fans we can pick who we like in the draft without having to worry about the salary cap.  I expect Chung, Butler and Vollmer to become starters next year. 

    I think the overlying theory is to have a foundation of solid good players who are relatively low pay and add a couple of stars.  This is in Contrast to teams that draft early first rounders and get free agent stars, then run out of money and fill thier roster with practice squad players (Redskins).  I know they don't seem very good right now, but their defense is tied for third best in the NFL in points and 10th in yards.  Imagine that defense next year with a little more experience, plus most guys are under longer contracts. 

    TBC, Thomas, Wilfork, Wright, Warren, Green, Meriweather, Chung, Butler, Wilhite, Guyton, Mayo.

    That's a pretty good and young team.  The key is sign Wilfork, Replace AT in the 1st round with a stud, and possibly replace Wilhite or get another corner.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from vapatfan1. Show vapatfan1's posts

    Re: draft

    Way too much time between now and the draft, but I think there's a few positions they'll starting thinking about.

    RB - Yes, right now we have a stable of aging veterans and a fairly young Maroney that the Patriots are going to have to decide on whether to keep or let go.  We need a Faulk type player to groom NOW (not that it's an easy task given what Faulk can do).

    WR -- If Tate turns out to be the real deal, the elusive third receiver question can be answered.  Edelman will continue to develop and may be a possible as the third receiver but I see him more as a slot receiver.

    The rest of the positions depend on who the Patriots resign and what FA offers. 

    As for what we could have gotten from this year's draft.  Hidesight is 20/20.  I'll bet all 32 teams wish they could have a couple of their picks back. 

    The DB decisions will be interesting to watch.  If the Pats release Springs and Bodden that may be an indication of how they feel the rookies and young DBs will progress next year.  I think Springs will be gone regardless.

    LB-- Still need that impact OLB.  FA or draft? So far, other than Vrabel, BB hasn't been real successful finding a FA OLB. 

    OMG, maybe there's more to think about than I thought.  D-line, O-line, QB?

    Oh, BTW, who does everyone think the Pats will Franchise tag next year.  Any thoughts? 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: draft

    I dont know what u are talking about Bosox.  The pats use their 1st rd pick every year prior to this since Brady has been here.  So what are u talking about? 
    I love this years draft.  Yes I wanted Maualuga badly, but then like 99% of us, we were like Vollmer who? and now we love him, he was a steal and I am glad BB picks and not us on this forum.  I dont know of a single person on here that mentioned Vollmer prior to the draft, if so please show me proof. 
    Yes we had a few bad drafts and FA signings, but who doesnt?  No team rules forever, no matter how much we would like to.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from vapatfan1. Show vapatfan1's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]I dont know what u are talking about Bosox.  The pats use their 1st rd pick every year prior to this since Brady has been here.  So what are u talking about?  I love this years draft.  Yes I wanted Maualuga badly, but then like 99% of us, we were like Vollmer who? and now we love him, he was a steal and I am glad BB picks and not us on this forum.  I dont know of a single person on here that mentioned Vollmer prior to the draft, if so please show me proof.  Yes we had a few bad drafts and FA signings, but who doesnt?  No team rules forever, no matter how much we would like to.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]

    I most agree! 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Zeoli42. Show Zeoli42's posts

    Re: draft

    I like The pats bringing in Leon Washington from New york Jets to groom into a new Kevin Faulk and hes better at kick returns and punt returns

    I like the pats bringing in Lance Moore from the Saints great WR who can stretch the field which will give The pats more chances to get the ball to welker and moss
    I like the pats bringing in Texas A&M stud DE who leads the Whole NCAA in sacks with 15 in the draft he weill drop cause of size but he could replace (BUST) AD

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]I like The pats bringing in Leon Washington from New york Jets to groom into a new Kevin Faulk and hes better at kick returns and punt returns I like the pats bringing in Lance Moore from the Saints great WR who can stretch the field which will give The pats more chances to get the ball to welker and moss I like the pats bringing in Texas A&M stud DE who leads the Whole NCAA in sacks with 15 in the draft he weill drop cause of size but he could replace (BUST) AD
    Posted by Zeoli42[/QUOTE]

    Although I like many of your ideas, the salary cap will prevent most of them from even coming close to a reality.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from plinny. Show plinny's posts

    Re: draft

    Their second-rounders work out about as often as most team's first-rounders.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: draft : Although I like many of your ideas, the salary cap will prevent most of them from even coming close to a reality.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]

    Mordecai and ALL:

    This idea isn't as far off as You lead on...  IF and When it Being a capped year next season, IF N.E. does NOT throw a massive amount of money towards 1 single player (imo, i.e. Vince Wilfork), They should certainly be able to adequately shore up 2 positions in Free Agency (BUT, I'd go WR and OLB- WR due to an enormous amount of decent #2 wideouts in Free Agency this year, And an OLB in order to get at least 1 vet leader as an OLB-wherein I'd cut AD-further freeing up more money and let Burgess walk if he didn't sign to a cap-friendly deal).  Other than this, N.E.'s other Free Agent notables, namely Guyton, McGowan, and Gostkowski, Should certainly NOT break the bank...

    Regarding WR-Not only are huge names out there like TO and Brandon Marshall (guys that NO way N.E. should/could afford to sign given my scenario), BUT there is a wealth of other guys like Lance Moore, Vincent Jackson, Miles Austin, Braylon Edwards, Antonio Bryant, Derrick Mason, Malcolm Floyd, Kevin Walter, Jason Avant, Mark Bradley, Chris Chambers, Domenik Hixon, Troy Williamson, and Demetrius Williams...  That's a crazy Buyer's Market (i.e. good for us), And EVERY one of these guys besides Chambers/Mason are STILL in their 20's and each one could give us a triple WR threat...

    In the end, N.E. would ideally be able to throw more money towards a vet strongside OLB, and in the Draft, Be able to get (and afford) that pass-rushing-specialist weakside OLB, Personally Then I'd go with a pair of fresh-legs on an RB (runningback as of late, has shown to be one of the easiest skill positions to come in and make an immediate impact), and finally either go DE or TE with the last choice (any draft order is applicable).

    Thoughts ANYONE?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: draft : Mordecai and ALL : This idea isn't as far off as You lead on...  IF and When it Being a capped year next season, IF N.E. does NOT throw a massive amount of money towards 1 single player (imo, i.e. Vince Wilfork), They should certainly be able to adequately shore up 2 positions in Free Agency (BUT, I'd go WR and OLB- WR due to an enormous amount of decent #2 wideouts in Free Agency this year, And an OLB in order to get at least 1 vet leader as an OLB-wherein I'd cut AD-further freeing up more money and let Burgess walk if he didn't sign to a cap-friendly deal).  Other than this, N.E.'s other Free Agent notables, namely Guyton, McGowan, and Gostkowski, Should certainly NOT break the bank... Regarding WR-Not only are huge names out there like TO and Brandon Marshall (guys that NO way N.E. should/could afford to sign given my scenario), BUT there is a wealth of other guys like Lance Moore, Vincent Jackson, Miles Austin, Braylon Edwards, Antonio Bryant, Derrick Mason, Malcolm Floyd, Kevin Walter, Jason Avant, Mark Bradley, Chris Chambers, Domenik Hixon, Troy Williamson, and Demetrius Williams...  That's a crazy Buyer's Market (i.e. good for us), And EVERY one of these guys besides Chambers/Mason are STILL in their 20's and each one could give us a triple WR threat... In the end, N.E. would ideally be able to throw more money towards a vet strongside OLB, and in the Draft, Be able to get (and afford) that pass-rushing-specialist weakside OLB, Personally Then I'd go with a pair of fresh-legs on an RB (runningback as of late, has shown to be one of the easiest skill positions to come in and make an immediate impact), and finally either go DE or TE with the last choice (any draft order is applicable). Thoughts ANYONE ?
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    First you left out our LG, Mankins who needs a pretty big financial commitment.
    2nd, if we lose Wilfork, we need to spend to replace him.  No NT in a 3-4 equals us getting run on all day.  Remember the 3-4 just before Ted Washington?  We couldnt stop Rudy or a peewee RB.
    Yes we can get a WR and afford him, not some of those on that list.  Edwards wanted about  9 mil a year last I read. Miles Austin has shown to be a #1 and will command that kind of money after this year as well.   Dont forget we need to extend Brady too.
    Ghost will probably be the highest or close to the highest paid kicker after this year and he is well worth it.  Guyton will get a decent contract.
    AT will be cut IMO, clearing some cash, but not a ton. 
    What vet OLB is a FA that we can sign? that also fits a 3-4?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yapple. Show Yapple's posts

    Re: draft

    I know this is heresy, but shouldn't we start thinking about QB?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FOWLER8196. Show FOWLER8196's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]I know this is heresy, but shouldn't we start thinking about QB?
    Posted by Yapple[/QUOTE]
    yup.  we should start scouting so we can draft one in a couple years.  NOT YET! especially with all the needs on this team that are NOT qb
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]I know this is heresy, but shouldn't we start thinking about QB?
    Posted by Yapple[/QUOTE]
    He is 32, so I think it's likely he will play at a high level until 38 based on other QB's.  I would say picking up a first round type of QB is 4-5 years away.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: draft : First you left out our LG, Mankins who needs a pretty big financial commitment. 2nd, if we lose Wilfork, we need to spend to replace him.  No NT in a 3-4 equals us getting run on all day.  Remember the 3-4 just before Ted Washington?  We couldnt stop Rudy or a peewee RB. Yes we can get a WR and afford him, not some of those on that list.  Edwards wanted about  9 mil a year last I read. Miles Austin has shown to be a #1 and will command that kind of money after this year as well.   Dont forget we need to extend Brady too. Ghost will probably be the highest or close to the highest paid kicker after this year and he is well worth it.  Guyton will get a decent contract. AT will be cut IMO, clearing some cash, but not a ton.  What vet OLB is a FA that we can sign? that also fits a 3-4?
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon[/QUOTE]

    Mordecai and ALL:

    Alright, I'll be succinct: Brady's the following year, Kicker money ain't cr#p and is altogether probably the easiest replaceable position next to Punter in the NFL, Mankins will get signed, but not for nearly as much as some think, Guyton has shown to be a serviceable LB in his first true year on the field, not sure 31 teams will bite hard on one year, I thought Adalius Thomas would have been making something like 12-14 mil next year, a tad more than "not alot of money" and we're already under the cap as is, I named 14 WRs (not including the top 2) that N.E. could potentially target, which wasn't half of them, and you scratched 2 from the FA list, leaving what, 12?  Finally, Mike Wright has filled in MORE than admirably for Wilfork, and is a better pass-rusher than VW...IF low-rent Ted Washington anchored our #1 D during a SB run, Wright, Adams, Brace, and whomever else that are doing fine when VW's been out, WILL continue to do so, and will certainly be better than the alternative of making him the highest paid Defensive Lineman in the National Football League at the expense of forsaking a good 3 other starting positions.  And finally RE: Vet LBs, someone like Aaron Kampman just might therefore now be in N.E.'s price-range, but there's also: Karlos Dansby, Demeco Ryans, Thomas Davis, Thomas Howard, Chase Blackburn, Angelo Crowell, Keith Ellison, and Omar Gaither...as just a few.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: draft : Mordecai and ALL : This idea isn't as far off as You lead on...  IF and When it Being a capped year next season, IF N.E. does NOT throw a massive amount of money towards 1 single player (imo, i.e. Vince Wilfork), They should certainly be able to adequately shore up 2 positions in Free Agency (BUT, I'd go WR and OLB- WR due to an enormous amount of decent #2 wideouts in Free Agency this year, And an OLB in order to get at least 1 vet leader as an OLB-wherein I'd cut AD-further freeing up more money and let Burgess walk if he didn't sign to a cap-friendly deal).  Other than this, N.E.'s other Free Agent notables, namely Guyton, McGowan, and Gostkowski, Should certainly NOT break the bank... Regarding WR-Not only are huge names out there like TO and Brandon Marshall (guys that NO way N.E. should/could afford to sign given my scenario), BUT there is a wealth of other guys like Lance Moore, Vincent Jackson, Miles Austin, Braylon Edwards, Antonio Bryant, Derrick Mason, Malcolm Floyd, Kevin Walter, Jason Avant, Mark Bradley, Chris Chambers, Domenik Hixon, Troy Williamson, and Demetrius Williams...  That's a crazy Buyer's Market (i.e. good for us), And EVERY one of these guys besides Chambers/Mason are STILL in their 20's and each one could give us a triple WR threat... In the end, N.E. would ideally be able to throw more money towards a vet strongside OLB, and in the Draft, Be able to get (and afford) that pass-rushing-specialist weakside OLB, Personally Then I'd go with a pair of fresh-legs on an RB (runningback as of late, has shown to be one of the easiest skill positions to come in and make an immediate impact), and finally either go DE or TE with the last choice (any draft order is applicable). Thoughts ANYONE ?
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]
    Good point, I think the high number of good WR's will drive the price down for the mid-level guys.  BB hasn't drafted WRs very well and has talked about the difficulty in predicting the success of a college WR to a NFL WR.  Free Agency seems like a very good possibility for filling that hole. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]I know this is heresy, but shouldn't we start thinking about QB?
    Posted by Yapple[/QUOTE]

    Wouldn't suprise me if they targeted a QB in the middle rounds.  A guy that I'm high on (that isn't getting a lot of press) is Sean Canfield (6-4 215, Oregon State).  He's a lefty with ideal size, good arm strength and accuracy (70% comp this year, 66.7 last year) and he's smart with the football (21 TD and only 6 INT's) in 406 attempts this year.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: draft

    In Response to Re: draft:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: draft : Good point, I think the high number of good WR's will drive the price down for the mid-level guys.  BB hasn't drafted WRs very well and has talked about the difficulty in predicting the success of a college WR to a NFL WR.  Free Agency seems like a very good possibility for filling that hole. 
    Posted by shenanigan[/QUOTE]

    It can be argued that BB hasn't done as bad as most think then drafting WR's.

    Hits:
    Deion Branch- 2nd round 2002 (Stud on two superbowl championshp teams).
    David Givens- 7th round 2002 (Productive starter on two superbowl championship teams).
    Mathew Slater- 5th round 2008 (played WR in college, but drafted more as a special teams guy.  He has been an excellent cover guy in special teams).
    Julian Edelman- 7th round 2009 (still acclimating to life as a WR, but appears to have the makings of a legit NFL slot receiver).

    Misses:
    Bethel Johnson-
    2nd round 2003 (made some big plays in his first two years to help NE win a few games, but never lived up to his draft position).
    PK Sam- 5th round 2004 (never really had a shot with Troy Brown, Branch and Givens on the team).
    Chad Jackson- 2nd round 2006 (Complete bust!)

    To Be Determined:
    Brandon Tate-
    3rd round 2009 (hasn't really got a chance to show what he can do due to injury, but was a talented guy in college).
     
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