Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to stewart7557's comment:

     

    I like the way Atlanta's GM moves up rather than down to acquire players they think are highly rated in areas they have targeted as a critical need. Julio Jones is the obvious example but now Dimitroff may be targeting Dion Jordan or Dee Millner.

    In my opionion, if you are on the cusp of a title shot then this is the correct drafting strategy.

      http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/22097692/trade-talk-heating-up-around-league-with-draft-week-away

     




         Look for him to move up to draft Notre Dame TE, Tyler Eifort

     

     



    eifort is a good one

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PATSchampsSB. Show PATSchampsSB's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    As I've said before, I think there are pros and cons to both strategies.  Ultimately, though, whichever you pursue, your ability to evaluate talent is key.  If you go for the high round guys, especially, you better do a good job of evaluating talent because the cost of making a mistake is high. If you go for value, mistakes don't hurt you as much, but you also need to be good at recognizing undervalued talent or you may end up with a lot of middling players and no real impact guys. 



    +1

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    Look I'm not saying Dimitroff hasn't done a nice job in Atlanta, but before last season they hadn't even won a playoff game.  The standard that people hold the FO on this team to is ridiculous.  When this team went 1 and done 2 years in a row half of the people on this board had a dam aneurysm.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stewart7557. Show stewart7557's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to mia76's comment:

    It is very easy to look at the player chosen in a trade up and say 'brilliant move', but what doesn't get looked at is the lost opportunity that was given up to move up. To be specific, they gave up two 1st rounders, one 2nd rounder, and 2 fourth rounders for a single wide receiver. He is good, but would anyone here actually make that trade for the Pats today for Jones? Or really for any receiver?I doubt it.

    That is just a huge lost opportunity for any team. You are saying that Jones by himself is better than say a starting OG, starting DE, a #3 CB, and a rotational DL and OL combined. Now picks are not necessarily going to pan out so maybe you drop half of that haul. But what have you really gained ... 2011 - Wild Card loss and record of 10-7, Conference Champ loss and 14-4.

    If BB had made that trade and gotten those results almost every poster on this board would be listing all the players they didn't get because of the trade, and calling for his head.



    Admittedly that was a lot to give up for J. Jones and clearly there is an opportunity cost in making this type of trade but lets assume that Atlanta and Dimitroff believed they were already strong in most positions and believed they were a player or 2 away from competing for a championship. Given that scenario (and I contend that's exactly the Patriots situation - they need to improve their pass rush and add 1 more WR) isn't the more logical strategy to target and pursue a player that you feel will give you the best opportunity to correct whatever deficiency you have?

    As Pat Eng stated so well - the Pats need talent not quantity of players and targeting and moving up in the draft increases the likelihood you will get an impact player while picking later or moving back increases the chances of you will fail

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to stewart7557's comment:

    In response to mia76's comment:

     

    It is very easy to look at the player chosen in a trade up and say 'brilliant move', but what doesn't get looked at is the lost opportunity that was given up to move up. To be specific, they gave up two 1st rounders, one 2nd rounder, and 2 fourth rounders for a single wide receiver. He is good, but would anyone here actually make that trade for the Pats today for Jones? Or really for any receiver?I doubt it.

    That is just a huge lost opportunity for any team. You are saying that Jones by himself is better than say a starting OG, starting DE, a #3 CB, and a rotational DL and OL combined. Now picks are not necessarily going to pan out so maybe you drop half of that haul. But what have you really gained ... 2011 - Wild Card loss and record of 10-7, Conference Champ loss and 14-4.

    If BB had made that trade and gotten those results almost every poster on this board would be listing all the players they didn't get because of the trade, and calling for his head.

     



     

    Admittedly that was a lot to give up for J. Jones and clearly there is an opportunity cost in making this type of trade but lets assume that Atlanta and Dimitroff believed they were already strong in most positions and believed they were a player or 2 away from competing for a championship. Given that scenario (and I contend that's exactly the Patriots situation - they need to improve their pass rush and add 1 more WR) isn't the more logical strategy to target and pursue a player that you feel will give you the best opportunity to correct whatever deficiency you have?

    As Pat Eng stated so well - the Pats need talent not quantity of players and targeting and moving up in the draft increases the likelihood you will get an impact player while picking later or moving back increases the chances of you will fail

     



    I understand all of that, but two points:

    1. The GM miscalculated if the WR pick was to take them over the top because he hasn't.

    2. If you had used every one of the picks given up on a single WR (5) I bet you would have found one with comparable production. Too lazy to check the WRs taken at or after each of the picks, but you get my meaning. And I am not suggesting the team would ever do that - but 2#1s and 1#2 pick would likely have resulted in a higher chance of a higher impact player than a single WR. Throw in the 2 4th rounders as gravy.

    Again - if you are the GM of the Patriots, Ravens, SF, Seattle, Denver, or and any other 'contender' you care to name - can you think of a single WR on any team you would trade the 27th, 59th, 124th picks this year and your first and fourth rounder next year - not talking about for a college player, but for a NFL player with an actual track record. We got an idea of Seattle's valuation of a top flight offensive skill position player - Harvin was acquired for #25, #214, and a next year 3rd rounder - and I would say he is just as dynamic a player.

    Or another question from the recent Pats drafts. Would you trade Gronk and Hern straight up for Jones? We have a desperate need at WR. And as far as draft cap, Gronk and Hern were #42 and #113 in a single draft (2010), so you could get player like them and a bunch of depth folks for the price Atlanta gave up in 2011, not even counting the 2012 cost.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    Are we going to dismiss the fact Belichick moved up twice in last year's first round to take Jones and Hightower or are we just going to take hidden pot shots at him for some perceived deficiency with his method, which frankly doesn't exist?

    Winning a Super Bowl takes a fair amount of health and luck, one might say the two are the same... getting close every year is a sign that you're doing something right, winning a Super Bowl just means you were lucky enough to have all the elements fall into place.  

    It's not easy and just because you signed Mario Williams, Asante Samuel or moved up to grab the popular choice at WR in the draft does not guarantee anything.  Daniel Snyder's Redskins or the Eagles "Dream Team" the past few years have proven that beyond the shadow of a doubt.

    Matt Ryan was the best pick the Falcons have made in years, he was the 3rd overall pick in the draft so that isn't surprising or revelatory, signing Julio Jones didn't put the Falcons over the top and it's hard to prove they couldn't have gone just as far without him and Torrey Smith in his place.  Coaching matters too...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Are we going to dismiss the fact Belichick moved up twice in last year's first round to take Jones and Hightower or are we just going to take hidden pot shots at him for some perceived deficiency with his method, which frankly doesn't exist?

    Winning a Super Bowl takes a fair amount of health and luck, one might say the two are the same... getting close every year is a sign that you're doing something right, winning a Super Bowl just means you were lucky enough to have all the elements fall into place.  

    It's not easy and just because you signed Mario Williams, Asante Samuel or moved up to grab the popular choice at WR in the draft does not guarantee anything.  Daniel Snyder's Redskins or the Eagles "Dream Team" the past few years have proven that beyond the shadow of a doubt.

    Matt Ryan was the best pick the Falcons have made in years, he was the 3rd overall pick in the draft so that isn't surprising or revelatory, signing Julio Jones didn't put the Falcons over the top and it's hard to prove they couldn't have gone just as far without him and Torrey Smith in his place.  Coaching matters too...



    thank you WOzzy. I agree. Every time I opine for BB to get a little more aggressive with his free agency or draft decisions, I get Mario Williams $$$$ or Julio Jones trade compensation thrown in my face. Simply moving up in the draft 2-5 spots or spending an additional $500-$1M is really all I am looking for.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Are we going to dismiss the fact Belichick moved up twice in last year's first round to take Jones and Hightower or are we just going to take hidden pot shots at him for some perceived deficiency with his method, which frankly doesn't exist?

    Winning a Super Bowl takes a fair amount of health and luck, one might say the two are the same... getting close every year is a sign that you're doing something right, winning a Super Bowl just means you were lucky enough to have all the elements fall into place.  

    It's not easy and just because you signed Mario Williams, Asante Samuel or moved up to grab the popular choice at WR in the draft does not guarantee anything.  Daniel Snyder's Redskins or the Eagles "Dream Team" the past few years have proven that beyond the shadow of a doubt.

    Matt Ryan was the best pick the Falcons have made in years, he was the 3rd overall pick in the draft so that isn't surprising or revelatory, signing Julio Jones didn't put the Falcons over the top and it's hard to prove they couldn't have gone just as far without him and Torrey Smith in his place.  Coaching matters too...

     



    thank you WOzzy. I agree. Every time I opine for BB to get a little more aggressive with his free agency or draft decisions, I get Mario Williams $$$$ or Julio Jones trade compensation thrown in my face. Simply moving up in the draft 2-5 spots or spending an additional $500-$1M is really all I am looking for.

     



    Nice post wozzy - and I think the major moves an Atlanta made just cost too much whereas the moving up AND back a few spots cost or return much less but can make huge difference in the player selected (up) or the draft manouverability (back) for a team. And there is never a guarantee you get it right in either case.

    On BBs moves last year - I liked them, but with reservations. I think if BB had known how squeezed he was going to be in trying to manouver later in that draft, he might not have made the trade for Hightower. (20/20 hind sight) And in terms of team needs, I thought LB was less important than other needs and so the 'cost' was not just in draft capital but in not filling other needs. I am not sure Hightower add to the overall record of the team and another player at a different position might actually have changed a loss to a win. (I think Hightower is a good player and may become a very good player but in terms of impact last year and this year I don't think he will make a huge difference - hope I am wrong!)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to stewart7557's comment:

    I like the way Atlanta's GM moves up rather than down to acquire players they think are highly rated in areas they have targeted as a critical need. Julio Jones is the obvious example but now Dimitroff may be targeting Dion Jordan or Dee Millner.

    In my opionion, if you are on the cusp of a title shot then this is the correct drafting strategy.

      http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/jason-la-canfora/22097692/trade-talk-heating-up-around-league-with-draft-week-away



    BB has been running pretty deep into the playoffs for year after year.  I suspect that the playoffs are often a dice shoot (or perhaps a loaded dice roll as often as not) but the regular season positioning comes to Foxboro year after year.   Drafting for one championship is a fool's game. 

     

    BB wrote the book on drafting. 

    Always draft out to next year, making a good profit of course. 

    Don't stay put.  Leapfrog two to four spots ahead if you can steal a key player from a division rival.  Leapfrog ahead because everybody else plans out who picks where with textbook precision, but nobody prepares for possible trades. 

    Never tell the other GMs who you're going after. Use smokescreens if possible.

    Don't be afraid to keep a wonderful player hanging if you can probably get him cheaper later.  Too many fish in the sea.

    Trust your scouting staff.  If a scout makes too many mistakes, fire him.  Then trust the next guy.

    If your scouting staff is truly good, compile a pile of lower draft choices. 

    If you're so good that other teams are going to raid your team on September 1 for salvage heap players, get a bunch of second rounders and a bunch of seventh rounders.  The second rounders will surely make the team.  The seventh rounders, if you always pick long-term projects and poor quarterbacks with long-term potential, can always fall through to your practice squad.

    Invite players to Foxboro only if they are remotely on your radar and there's a chance they can impress you, but not if you're sure that you'd draft them.

    Comb the small schools.

    Draft invalids.  Draft a guy with leukemia (Cannon).  Draft a guy with a bad back (Gronk).  Draft a druggie (Hernandez).

    Draft long arms.

    Draft guys with 3-cone times.

    Draft agressive players. 

    Draft by Wonderlic scores.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from fl+adam,. Show fl+adam,'s posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to maine12's comment:

     

    And this is what makes New England so good for so LONG. Its not about one year, its about building teams for long periods. No Doubt it worked out for julio. But what if Jordan or Milliner dont live up to the hype. It cost a lot to move into the top 5 and if it doesn't pan out it can haunt you for years to come. 

    I'd rather the exact opposite.  I'd rather be in the chase every year, with an opportunity to win every year if things fall the right way(injuries etc).



    id rather win 5 titles than be in the playoffs 10 years in a row and win 3.

     




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    Frankly with the number of teams with higher picks looking to trade down and the rookie wage scale it wouldn't surprise me at all if we traded up (even with our lack of picks).

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    Frankly with the number of teams with higher picks looking to trade down and the rookie wage scale it wouldn't surprise me at all if we traded up (even with our lack of picks).



    Good point, I speculated this earlier, we only have so many roster spots available and anybody after the 4th round likely won't make this team.  I could see us walking away from this draft with only 3 or 4 players.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Drafting Strategy of Thomas Dimitroff

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    Frankly with the number of teams with higher picks looking to trade down and the rookie wage scale it wouldn't surprise me at all if we traded up (even with our lack of picks).

     



    Good point, I speculated this earlier, we only have so many roster spots available and anybody after the 4th round likely won't make this team.  I could see us walking away from this draft with only 3 or 4 players.

     


    3 or 4 plus a boat load of UDFAs. I think there may be some pretty good players undrafted this year and the Pats generally do a nice job at finding UDFAs. In reality 7th rounders really are just glorified UDFAs anyway.

     
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