Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1624721-new-england-patriots-in-defense-of-duron-harmon

    Good read.  Time will still tell but it's informative at the least. 

     

     

    Let's take a look at the measurables for the safeties taken immediately before and after Harmon.  Screenshot2013-04-30at11

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    From a measurable s standpoint the pick seems reasonable. What about a comparison of production?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    From a measurable s standpoint the pick seems reasonable. What about a comparison of production?




    So why are both Williamses rated so much higher on this WalterFootball ranking? Why is Duke Williams considered a "solid value selection" while Harmon is a "huge reach," per Mel Kiper?

    It's probably not production—over the last two years, Harmon has totalled 14 passes defended and six INTs on his way to two-time All Big-East honors. Duke Williams finished with 16 PDs and two INTs during that time.  

    Yes, they're different players in terms of style—Williams is physical and racks up a lot of tackles, while Harmon seems better suited to play a deep-shell than an in-the-box safety. But a glance at the surface of these two players doesn't seem to yield any indication that one should be a third-rounder and the other ought to go undrafted.  

    Harmon's Range and Versatility Make Him a High-Value Third-Rounder

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    When you line up their production, measurables, etc, I would agree the Harmon pick was not necessarily a bad pick. Was it a reach? Questionable for sure as are the other safeties drafted just before and after him. 

    the one thing that Harmon has that makes his pick interesting, is the history with Logan Ryan and some of the others Rutgers guys, plus, his intangibles (leadership, good character, etc). 

    I strongly believe the 1+1=3 here with the familiarity of the Rutgers players, communication, etc is a strong factor not only in his selection, but the potential contribution of these guys collectively going forward. Retrospectively, I didn't like the pick because for various reasons, but know, after considering all the points, the pick I think could be a good one.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    We will have McCourty, Gregory, T.Wilson, A.Wilson, Ebner, Harmon, etc.

    At this point,Im just hoping a formidable back end emerges from this group. I dont really like or dislike the pick. I just question if a whole college secondary(not named USC or Bama) can all make am impact in the NFL. I know Rutgers had a good scoring defense last year but still, we have basically the whole team and a few years back it was the same with Florida. If it works, fine. I just question the approach and wonder if its lazy scouting? leaving too many names out there. I think with all the college talent, you are selling yourself short by drafting all guys from the same school and its all on defense and our D aint exactly been lighting it up soooooo, we shall see. I actually like the Harmon kid,  but Im more concerned with if he can play. I mean we were all excited about Chung and I thought he was a better prospect and fell off the map here. Have to question what kind of coaching they are getting at some point. Not BB, but his position coaches.

     

    I think BB has a hard time trying to get HIS safety. This goes back to Dexter Reid and the other Duke Kid he drafted that busted out. He wants a FS/SS hybrid and those are hard to find if you want them to be able to play both at a high level. Harmon is capable of playing the single high S in college but in the NFL its different. He may not be able to play in the box at 200 lbs, so its the same gamble IMO, hoping a smaller guy can play in the box if needed but be fast enough to play Free. Thats why all the 3 safey alignments,. I remember in 2002, they tried it with Milloy, Green and Tebucky but they were all SS's. I know its a passing league and you dont want to dictate coverage with Strong and Free, but what good it is having 2 Free safeties who cant hit?? Lets hope A.Wilson solves this ongoing dilemna that has happened since Rodney left.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    I remember our special teams giving up huge returns in the playoffs.  He apparently will make our special teams coverage much better at the very least in year one.  This team is going to be solid in all three phases of the game. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    What makes a draft pick a "reach"? It's not about where he was ranked according to this or that website or draft guru, it's where he got picked vs. where the next interested team would have picked him. And unless some other team comes out and reveals that information, we'll never know if he was a reach.

    BB likes the guy, we'll see how it turns out.  He's been right about some guys and wrong about others. 

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:

    What makes a draft pick a "reach"? It's not about where he was ranked according to this or that website or draft guru, it's where he got picked vs. where the next interested team would have picked him. And unless some other team comes out and reveals that information, we'll never know if he was a reach.

    BB likes the guy, we'll see how it turns out.  He's been right about some guys and wrong about others. 




    Totally understood, but that's why I like the article.  It really breaks down Harmon and the pick he was taken at. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Based on his measureables, his production, his selection as an all-conference S in a decent league, it doesn't seem like he was a reach.  NFL scouts watch a lot of film on these guys, and we'll never really know if he was on anyone else's draft board.  If BB felt he was worth a 3rd and wouldn't be around much longer, or if he couldn't maneuver to trade back and get him at a later pick (assuming he'd be there) then I guess they've done their homework on him and feel good about the pick.  

    I learned long ago to take the opinions of "the experts" with a grain of salt.  There are a lot of guys who could be drafted, and the NFL is full of guys who came from nowhere to have good careers.  The Kipers of the world, as much as they sound like they have a clue, have no idea of how a particular player is viewed by a team, what his potential role could be, and if he has it in him to rise to the challenge of the NFL.  These analysts are like weathermen - if they're wrong well "it was their best guess" based on the data they had.  A lot of charlatans in the sports profession.    

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

    Based on his measureables, his production, his selection as an all-conference S in a decent league, it doesn't seem like he was a reach.  NFL scouts watch a lot of film on these guys, and we'll never really know if he was on anyone else's draft board.  If BB felt he was worth a 3rd and wouldn't be around much longer, or if he couldn't maneuver to trade back and get him at a later pick (assuming he'd be there) then I guess they've done their homework on him and feel good about the pick.  

    I learned long ago to take the opinions of "the experts" with a grain of salt.  There are a lot of guys who could be drafted, and the NFL is full of guys who came from nowhere to have good careers.  The Kipers of the world, as much as they sound like they have a clue, have no idea of how a particular player is viewed by a team, what his potential role could be, and if he has it in him to rise to the challenge of the NFL.  These analysts are like weathermen - if they're wrong well "it was their best guess" based on the data they had.  A lot of charlatans in the sports profession.    



    The reason Im not mad that he didnt trade down is because we had already picked up extra picks, I mean how many gonna make the team?  So to those saying he couldve traded down and got him, well Im not worried about that. I just question drafting the whole team, but I like the pick tentatively as a special teams guy to help with that and to be groomed as a possible S along with the other "reach" T.Wilson...lol. NO complaints from me,,,,,,Yet!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Geez...I figured the guy doesn't have a chance in he!!. According to our local draft experts Tex & Babe, BB sucks as a drafter, so we should just send this kid packing!! LOL

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    We will have McCourty, Gregory, T.Wilson, A.Wilson, Ebner, Harmon, etc.

    At this point,Im just hoping a formidable back end emerges from this group. I dont really like or dislike the pick. I just question if a whole college secondary(not named USC or Bama) can all make am impact in the NFL. I know Rutgers had a good scoring defense last year but still, we have basically the whole team and a few years back it was the same with Florida. If it works, fine. I just question the approach and wonder if its lazy scouting? leaving too many names out there. I think with all the college talent, you are selling yourself short by drafting all guys from the same school and its all on defense and our D aint exactly been lighting it up soooooo, we shall see. I actually like the Harmon kid,  but Im more concerned with if he can play. I mean we were all excited about Chung and I thought he was a better prospect and fell off the map here. Have to question what kind of coaching they are getting at some point. Not BB, but his position coaches.

     

    I think BB has a hard time trying to get HIS safety. This goes back to Dexter Reid and the other Duke Kid he drafted that busted out. He wants a FS/SS hybrid and those are hard to find if you want them to be able to play both at a high level. Harmon is capable of playing the single high S in college but in the NFL its different. He may not be able to play in the box at 200 lbs, so its the same gamble IMO, hoping a smaller guy can play in the box if needed but be fast enough to play Free. Thats why all the 3 safey alignments,. I remember in 2002, they tried it with Milloy, Green and Tebucky but they were all SS's. I know its a passing league and you dont want to dictate coverage with Strong and Free, but what good it is having 2 Free safeties who cant hit?? Lets hope A.Wilson solves this ongoing dilemna that has happened since Rodney left.



    We do have 5 Rutgers defenders, but only one of them is likely to start and he's been on this team for 3 seasons and made a pro-bowl, despite his flaws Mccourty is an above average FS.

    The other 4 guys are depth and only Ryan, a GREAT value pick in rd 3, is likely to not be fighting for a job in training camp.

    Were there more Florida players than Cunningham and Spikes? That doesn't seem to represent a whole defense drafted from one school when its just 2 players. Spikes was GREAT value where he was picked. Cunningham was a rd 3-4 guy BB reached on.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    We will have McCourty, Gregory, T.Wilson, A.Wilson, Ebner, Harmon, etc.

    At this point,Im just hoping a formidable back end emerges from this group. I dont really like or dislike the pick. I just question if a whole college secondary(not named USC or Bama) can all make am impact in the NFL. I know Rutgers had a good scoring defense last year but still, we have basically the whole team and a few years back it was the same with Florida. If it works, fine. I just question the approach and wonder if its lazy scouting? leaving too many names out there. I think with all the college talent, you are selling yourself short by drafting all guys from the same school and its all on defense and our D aint exactly been lighting it up soooooo, we shall see. I actually like the Harmon kid,  but Im more concerned with if he can play. I mean we were all excited about Chung and I thought he was a better prospect and fell off the map here. Have to question what kind of coaching they are getting at some point. Not BB, but his position coaches.

     

    I think BB has a hard time trying to get HIS safety. This goes back to Dexter Reid and the other Duke Kid he drafted that busted out. He wants a FS/SS hybrid and those are hard to find if you want them to be able to play both at a high level. Harmon is capable of playing the single high S in college but in the NFL its different. He may not be able to play in the box at 200 lbs, so its the same gamble IMO, hoping a smaller guy can play in the box if needed but be fast enough to play Free. Thats why all the 3 safey alignments,. I remember in 2002, they tried it with Milloy, Green and Tebucky but they were all SS's. I know its a passing league and you dont want to dictate coverage with Strong and Free, but what good it is having 2 Free safeties who cant hit?? Lets hope A.Wilson solves this ongoing dilemna that has happened since Rodney left.

     



    We do have 5 Rutgers defenders, but only one of them is likely to start and he's been on this team for 3 seasons and made a pro-bowl, despite his flaws Mccourty is an above average FS.

     

    The other 4 guys are depth and only Ryan, a GREAT value pick in rd 3, is likely to not be fighting for a job in training camp.

    Were there more Florida players than Cunningham and Spikes? That doesn't seem to represent a whole defense drafted from one school when its just 2 players. Spikes was GREAT value where he was picked. Cunningham was a rd 3-4 guy BB reached on.




    This is true. I think you misunderstood though. I spoke only about Rutgers whole defense being here. In florida he drafted offense and defense. Spikes, Cunningham, Hernandez, and the guy who we cut 1st year and flourished down in J-ville. Like I said, Im not knocking it until I see resuls, But I do question why taking so many from one school. Thats my gripe. Wether or not its a valid gripe....only time will tell. I wouldnt call McCourty an above average FS yet, he hasnt even played the position for a year yet. A little premature is u ask me. Good transition so far? yes, but all he has been asked to do back there so far is play deep middle and use his speed and range to get to the sidelines.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Oh please, give me a break, the guy was a reach. In a couple of months, he'll be sitting next to  Bequette, another guy you guys hyped up, watching as scrubs like Tavon Wilson and Steven Gregory take snaps ahead of him. 

     

    He's a reach, he would've been there in round 5-7. BB just has too massive an ego sometimes, sometimes he sees someone he shouldn't go after and he thinks his genius is so great that he can turn a Tim Tebow into a Tom Brady. He's been right MOST of the time, but this was a waste of a pick. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    I pray to god I'm wrong, I PRAY! But I know I'm not, his mom said it best.

     

    "Baby, why don't you have any highlights?" "Where your highlights at?"

     

    That's what I'm saying too, Ms. Harmon. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Mankins and Vollmer were "reaches" too.  At the end of the day no one will care if the guy becomes a good player.  Just like they don't care if the guy was a "steal" and ends up being a bust.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Philskiw s bold 2014 prediction.   We raid OSUs team next year.  Hello coach Vrable and coach Meyer .  Meyer already walks on water in Columbus. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    Oh please, give me a break, the guy was a reach. In a couple of months, he'll be sitting next to  Bequette, another guy you guys hyped up, watching as scrubs like Tavon Wilson and Steven Gregory take snaps ahead of him. 

     

    He's a reach, he would've been there in round 5-7. BB just has too massive an ego sometimes, sometimes he sees someone he shouldn't go after and he thinks his genius is so great that he can turn a Tim Tebow into a Tom Brady. He's been right MOST of the time, but this was a waste of a pick. 




    Wilson and Gregory don't even play the same position as Bequette.  And as for Wilson he had a decent rookie season.  I see no reason to declare the guy a scrub after one year.  Bequette I am a bit more concerned about, but we'll know more after camp this year.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from poopsteo. Show poopsteo's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    Don't we have tavon Wilson??? And we signed  Adrian Wilson. Rather reach on interior lineman IMO. What do I know. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=736rurngF4E

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    A reach is when you expect to turn trash into gold. Taking an All league performer isn't taking trash, if you think Big East Football isn't on the same standard as other leagues then you drop the mineral value a little and call it silver and hope your geologist got it wrong and it was actually gold! I'm OK with the players drafted by BB because in reality a UDFA player has made this team three years in a row. It's all about the will of the player and the teaching he receives while compeating. If they both are in line then the player will achieve whatever his goals are. If I played a sport it would be to be great not just average. I'm sure most of us feel the same way,why settle for the word adequate, when the word great is availible?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    The thing I find most interesting is that BB didn't have to 'trade down' at all - he already had the 4th round pick he used on Boyce in his pocket so he could have taken any other player instead of harmon and taken harmon in the 4th if her wanted to. Obviously he didn't think he would be there 11 picks later.

    Heck - I am sure most on this board would have been happier if he picked Boyce at #91 and Harmon at #102

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    I hope the kid does great, he seems like good kid who's easy to root for.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon - Not a reach afterall?

    In response to mia76's comment:

    The thing I find most interesting is that BB didn't have to 'trade down' at all - he already had the 4th round pick he used on Boyce in his pocket so he could have taken any other player instead of harmon and taken harmon in the 4th if her wanted to. Obviously he didn't think he would be there 11 picks later.

    Heck - I am sure most on this board would have been happier if he picked Boyce at #91 and Harmon at #102




     

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