Dustin Keller Update

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    Good post Eng.  agree that a potential Keller signing shoud not change NE's draft plans at all.  I do like the idea of bringing him in as a depth signing and to take some potential stress off of a rookie.  I would really like to see them sign Keller but I also really want to see a talented rookie tight and brought in.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    The thing about Keller is he's a joker TE who relied mostly on his speed. He was an even worse blocker than Hern was. More like a massive slot WR than a TE really. So, he'd be closer to adding a WR than he would be adding a TE even if healthy. However, that was a major, major injury to his knee and it's hard to tell if he'd be the same player again. Will he have the same speed and cutting ability? If it's even slightly decreased that was his major claim to fame. It's a big gamble to grab just him and say that's good enough. Esp, with the question mark if Gronk can stay healthy through a season. We saw the major effect having Gronk vs a Hooman/Mulligan combo had on the O we can expect similar if that same thing happens this year. To me, Keller would be adding an offensive receiving weapon (like adding a big WR) it wouldn't be like adding a more traditional TE that teams have to worry about releasing and staying in. Drafting a TE early would be more Gronk insurance than it would be about adding an offensive weapon as if Gronk goes down again having Keller would still make the TE position 1 dimensional (ie when Hooman is on the field they are running, when Keller is on the field they are passing)


     



    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus




    there is not much to draft other than joker TE's. there is no stud TE in this draft that can do half of what Gronk is able to do. I also don't see the gamble/dependancy on Keller if he is on a non guaranteed contract


    I simply feel that the Pats a) don't love any of the TE's available, b)won't reach at the position due to not really loving any of them, but would choose one if the board fell that way


    why spend a 3rd round pick on a TE that may end up as the teams #3 or #4 TE when they may be able to use that pick on next years starting RB? 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    The thing about Keller is he's a joker TE who relied mostly on his speed. He was an even worse blocker than Hern was. More like a massive slot WR than a TE really. So, he'd be closer to adding a WR than he would be adding a TE even if healthy. However, that was a major, major injury to his knee and it's hard to tell if he'd be the same player again. Will he have the same speed and cutting ability? If it's even slightly decreased that was his major claim to fame. It's a big gamble to grab just him and say that's good enough. Esp, with the question mark if Gronk can stay healthy through a season. We saw the major effect having Gronk vs a Hooman/Mulligan combo had on the O we can expect similar if that same thing happens this year. To me, Keller would be adding an offensive receiving weapon (like adding a big WR) it wouldn't be like adding a more traditional TE that teams have to worry about releasing and staying in. Drafting a TE early would be more Gronk insurance than it would be about adding an offensive weapon as if Gronk goes down again having Keller would still make the TE position 1 dimensional (ie when Hooman is on the field they are running, when Keller is on the field they are passing)



    Yes, Keller should be a big slot receiver by BB standards. 
    Medical science has progressed to the level where someone like Wes Welker, who makes lateral cuts all day with the best of them, can come back from a blown ACL somewhat in a year and definitely in two years.  It doesn't matter quite as much that Keller was an injured reserve sitter in New York. By August Keller will either be ok, in which case he makes the 53 man squad, or not ok, in which case he gets handed his 1-way plane ticket.


    Nor does it matter quite as much that Gronk blew out his knee.  There's always a chance that Gronk won't be the same, but at least so far there's every chance that he'll be flipping over the blocking sleds as before.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from crazy-world-of-troybrown. Show crazy-world-of-troybrown's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to Paul_K's comment:


    In response to PatsEng's comment:


     


    The thing about Keller is he's a joker TE who relied mostly on his speed. He was an even worse blocker than Hern was. More like a massive slot WR than a TE really. So, he'd be closer to adding a WR than he would be adding a TE even if healthy. However, that was a major, major injury to his knee and it's hard to tell if he'd be the same player again. Will he have the same speed and cutting ability? If it's even slightly decreased that was his major claim to fame. It's a big gamble to grab just him and say that's good enough. Esp, with the question mark if Gronk can stay healthy through a season. We saw the major effect having Gronk vs a Hooman/Mulligan combo had on the O we can expect similar if that same thing happens this year. To me, Keller would be adding an offensive receiving weapon (like adding a big WR) it wouldn't be like adding a more traditional TE that teams have to worry about releasing and staying in. Drafting a TE early would be more Gronk insurance than it would be about adding an offensive weapon as if Gronk goes down again having Keller would still make the TE position 1 dimensional (ie when Hooman is on the field they are running, when Keller is on the field they are passing)


     



    Yes, Keller should be a big slot receiver by BB standards. 
    Medical science has progressed to the level where someone like Wes Welker, who makes lateral cuts all day with the best of them, can come back from a blown ACL somewhat in a year and definitely in two years.  It doesn't matter quite as much that Keller was an injured reserve sitter in New York. By August Keller will either be ok, in which case he makes the 53 man squad, or not ok, in which case he gets handed his 1-way plane ticket.


     


    Nor does it matter quite as much that Gronk blew out his knee.  There's always a chance that Gronk won't be the same, but at least so far there's every chance that he'll be flipping over the blocking sleds as before.



    Very good Post.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to Paul_K's comment:


     


    Yes, Keller should be a big slot receiver by BB standards. 
    Medical science has progressed to the level where someone like Wes Welker, who makes lateral cuts all day with the best of them, can come back from a blown ACL somewhat in a year and definitely in two years.  It doesn't matter quite as much that Keller was an injured reserve sitter in New York. By August Keller will either be ok, in which case he makes the 53 man squad, or not ok, in which case he gets handed his 1-way plane ticket.


     


    Nor does it matter quite as much that Gronk blew out his knee.  There's always a chance that Gronk won't be the same, but at least so far there's every chance that he'll be flipping over the blocking sleds as before.





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    It wasn't just his ACL though but also his MCL and PCL and a knee dislocation. Now it's been 12 years since I did something similar to my knee (the 3 tears to a lesser extent than his) and I know medical knowledge has improved since then but still there isn't much they can do for the PCL and MCL are always a bit tricker not to mention the damage to flexibility caused by a dislocation. Expecting him to come back from all that 8 months removed and be the same player as 3 years ago is a long shot.


    Gronk injury though was much less server and yes he should have a much easier time to recover. Not to mention Gronk isn't as dependent on cutting and speed as Keller is. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to rkarp's comment:


     


    there is not much to draft other than joker TE's. there is no stud TE in this draft that can do half of what Gronk is able to do. I also don't see the gamble/dependancy on Keller if he is on a non guaranteed contract


     


    I simply feel that the Pats a) don't love any of the TE's available, b)won't reach at the position due to not really loving any of them, but would choose one if the board fell that way


     


    why spend a 3rd round pick on a TE that may end up as the teams #3 or #4 TE when they may be able to use that pick on next years starting RB? 





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    Other than Amaro the rest of the top 5 TE's aren't jokers or "U" type TE's in the least. They are actually more towards the Gronk end as traditional "Y" type TE's

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    We need to stop comparing guys to Gronk. Guys like that don't come around much, in fact once. It's like every tall, white college forward who can shoot a little is the next Bird...still waiting on that one 25 years later. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsTxGrl. Show PatsTxGrl's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    This message board is ticky tacky.

     
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    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsTxGrl's comment:


    This message board is ticky tacky.




    Thank you for your meaningful contribution!

     
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    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to Muzwell's comment:


    We need to stop comparing guys to Gronk. Guys like that don't come around much, in fact once. It's like every tall, white college forward who can shoot a little is the next Bird...still waiting on that one 25 years later. 




    Yes, exactly...Gronk is a once in a generation player in terms of his special physical talents and game skills...injuries may have taken all that away from him  and us so we have to be prepared to move on...that being said, this is a bad year for good TE's....the best of the lot -EBRON- isn't really a TE but a big receiver....they'll pick one but probably later than earlier.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    In response to rkarp's comment:


     


     


     


    there is not much to draft other than joker TE's. there is no stud TE in this draft that can do half of what Gronk is able to do. I also don't see the gamble/dependancy on Keller if he is on a non guaranteed contract


     


     


     


    I simply feel that the Pats a) don't love any of the TE's available, b)won't reach at the position due to not really loving any of them, but would choose one if the board fell that way


     


     


     


    why spend a 3rd round pick on a TE that may end up as the teams #3 or #4 TE when they may be able to use that pick on next years starting RB? 


     





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    Other than Amaro the rest of the top 5 TE's aren't jokers or "U" type TE's in the least. They are actually more towards the Gronk end as traditional "Y" type TE's




    I dont agree. Niklaus (sp?) is the best blocking TE of the bunch and he is simply a mediocre blocking TE.


    The other guys rated highly on the draft boards are 6"3" plus, 245 lbs, iffy hands, pretty good speed and cone measureables. I do not see a Y in the bunch. However, thats reading the reports, not actually seeing the players


    Btw...anyone with draft interest to the max....must get Loyko's draft guide. Awesome info if your into that stuff 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to rkarp's comment:


     


    I dont agree. Niklaus (sp?) is the best blocking TE of the bunch and he is simply a mediocre blocking TE.


     


    The other guys rated highly on the draft boards are 6"3" plus, 245 lbs, iffy hands, pretty good speed and cone measureables. I do not see a Y in the bunch. However, thats reading the reports, not actually seeing the players


     


    Btw...anyone with draft interest to the max....must get Loyko's draft guide. Awesome info if your into that stuff 





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    Hernandez, Keller, Pitta, Davis are jokers or "U" types. They are more receivers or hybrids than traditional TE's


    Hooman is a blocking TE 


    Traditional TE's that can block and receive are called "Y" types like Gronk. This is what most of them are in the top 5. TE's that have blocking and receiving ability.


    It has nothing to do with how average or not they are but how they were used in those roles. CJ, ASJ, Ebron, Niklas were used for inline blockers who released to catch passes on occasion. That puts them closer to "Y" type TE's, Amaro was used mainly as a receiver lining up mostly in the slot or out wide that makes him a joker or "U" type, someone like Gilmore might end up being used more as a blocking tight end.


    btw CJ is 6'5" 265, Niklas is 6'6" 270, ASJ is 6'6" 265, and Amaro is 6'5" 265. Where the heck did you get your height and weight numbers?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to Muzwell's comment:


    We need to stop comparing guys to Gronk. Guys like that don't come around much, in fact once. It's like every tall, white college forward who can shoot a little is the next Bird...still waiting on that one 25 years later. 





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    I was using Gronk as a style of play comparison not as a player comparison. In other words we need a TE who can block inline or release for a pass. Hooman is primarily a blocking TE, Keller would be primarily a receiving TE. We have no other TE's that can block inline or release for a pass. Gronk is a freak and no we won't find another with his athletic ability but that doesn't mean there aren't who have similar styles of play. Considering Gronk goes down a lot having a similar style TE that can block inline or release would be a huge benefit as opposed to having just a blocking TE or just a receiving TE.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from WazzuWheatfarmer. Show WazzuWheatfarmer's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    In response to rkarp's comment:


     


     


     


    I dont agree. Niklaus (sp?) is the best blocking TE of the bunch and he is simply a mediocre blocking TE.


     


     


     


    The other guys rated highly on the draft boards are 6"3" plus, 245 lbs, iffy hands, pretty good speed and cone measureables. I do not see a Y in the bunch. However, thats reading the reports, not actually seeing the players


     


     


     


    Btw...anyone with draft interest to the max....must get Loyko's draft guide. Awesome info if your into that stuff 


     





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    Hernandez, Keller, Pitta, Davis are jokers or "U" types. They are more receivers or hybrids than traditional TE's


     


    Hooman is a blocking TE 


     


    Traditional TE's that can block and receive are called "Y" types like Gronk. This is what most of them are in the top 5. TE's that have blocking and receiving ability.


     


    It has nothing to do with how average or not they are but how they were used in those roles. CJ, ASJ, Ebron, Niklas were used for inline blockers who released to catch passes on occasion. That puts them closer to "Y" type TE's, Amaro was used mainly as a receiver lining up mostly in the slot or out wide that makes him a joker or "U" type, someone like Gilmore might end up being used more as a blocking tight end.


     


    btw CJ is 6'5" 265, Niklas is 6'6" 270, ASJ is 6'6" 265, and Amaro is 6'5" 265. Where the heck did you get your height and weight numbers?






    If he got them from Loyko's Draft Guide, I would say he got ripped off!  :)

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    In response to rkarp's comment:


     


     


     


    I dont agree. Niklaus (sp?) is the best blocking TE of the bunch and he is simply a mediocre blocking TE.


     


     


     


    The other guys rated highly on the draft boards are 6"3" plus, 245 lbs, iffy hands, pretty good speed and cone measureables. I do not see a Y in the bunch. However, thats reading the reports, not actually seeing the players


     


     


     


    Btw...anyone with draft interest to the max....must get Loyko's draft guide. Awesome info if your into that stuff 


     





    [object HTMLDivElement]


     


    Hernandez, Keller, Pitta, Davis are jokers or "U" types. They are more receivers or hybrids than traditional TE's


     


    Hooman is a blocking TE 


     


    Traditional TE's that can block and receive are called "Y" types like Gronk. This is what most of them are in the top 5. TE's that have blocking and receiving ability.


     


    It has nothing to do with how average or not they are but how they were used in those roles. CJ, ASJ, Ebron, Niklas were used for inline blockers who released to catch passes on occasion. That puts them closer to "Y" type TE's, Amaro was used mainly as a receiver lining up mostly in the slot or out wide that makes him a joker or "U" type, someone like Gilmore might end up being used more as a blocking tight end.


     


    btw CJ is 6'5" 265, Niklas is 6'6" 270, ASJ is 6'6" 265, and Amaro is 6'5" 265. Where the heck did you get your height and weight numbers?




    6'3" plus is what i said


    Niklas-mediocre Y TE, poor hands, poor route runner. 


    CJ, ASJ, Amaro all poor blockers, good route runners, all X TE's in the Pats offense. 


    All rated 2nd round or lower unless a surprise team reaches. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to rkarp's comment:


     


    6'3" plus is what i said


     


    Niklas-mediocre Y TE, poor hands, poor route runner. 


     


    CJ, ASJ, Amaro all poor blockers, good route runners, all X TE's in the Pats offense. 


     


    All rated 2nd round or lower unless a surprise team reaches. 





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    And you called all 20lbs lighter than what they are. Saying 6'3" plus basically describes almost every TE in the NFL. Very few are under 6'3" and there is a massive difference between 6'3" and 6'5"-6'6". That's like saying a group of heavyweight MMA fighter is 210+, well yeah but a 210 and 235 makes a vast difference.


    CJ, was primarily a blocking TE his 1st year and developed into a pass catcher and is considered one the better blocking TE's in the draft. Prior to the combine, those who didn't watch much video of him assumed he'd be a blocking TE only in the Pro's so I'm not sure where you think he is a poor blocker?


    ASJ I will give you is more raw in blocker, for sure, however if you compare his blocking in 12' to his blocking in 13' he made some good improvement. He's still an average blocker right now but if he continues to improve he will be a good blocker within a year or two in the pro's. He's not a poor blocker.


    Amaro, yeah he's a poor blocker. Let him catch balls........ I will fully give you that.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    In response to rkarp's comment:


     


     


     


    6'3" plus is what i said


     


     


     


    Niklas-mediocre Y TE, poor hands, poor route runner. 


     


     


     


    CJ, ASJ, Amaro all poor blockers, good route runners, all X TE's in the Pats offense. 


     


     


     


    All rated 2nd round or lower unless a surprise team reaches. 


     





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    And you called all 20lbs lighter than what they are. Saying 6'3" plus basically describes almost every TE in the NFL. Very few are under 6'3" and there is a massive difference between 6'3" and 6'5"-6'6". That's like saying a group of heavyweight MMA fighter is 210+, well yeah but a 210 and 235 makes a vast difference.


     


    CJ, was primarily a blocking TE his 1st year and developed into a pass catcher and is considered one the better blocking TE's in the draft. Prior to the combine, those who didn't watch much video of him assumed he'd be a blocking TE only in the Pro's so I'm not sure where you think he is a poor blocker?


     


    ASJ I will give you is more raw in blocker, for sure, however if you compare his blocking in 12' to his blocking in 13' he made some good improvement. He's still an average blocker right now but if he continues to improve he will be a good blocker within a year or two in the pro's. He's not a poor blocker.


     


    Amaro, yeah he's a poor blocker. Let him catch balls........ I will fully give you that.




    I am not ranking them or rating them. Simply listening and reading.


    Weak TE draft, Ebron sounds like he is sliding, as are the others. 


    Poor blockers, iffy hands seems to be contagious with this group. 


    I did not type it properly, but was trying to say the entire group is 6'3" plus and 245 plus. 


    I was also told Pats would bring in 2-3 UDFA TE's 


    Also they have been in touch with Finley, he is not ready to pass the physical


     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    btw rkarp from NFL.com regarding CJ:


    "Fiedorowicz looks the part and has balanced skills to be a legitimate “Y” tight end in the pros. Is an asset as a competitive blocker and as a sure-handed receiver"


    so, the question I have are you hearing about these TE's from a source at ESPN or from a website you are checking out? Because, from what I've seen from them and from how you describe them we are on two completely different levels. I don't think any are really elite but solid with potential to be top 20 TE's Niklas and CJ have potential however, to call some poor blockers and not call them "Y" tight ends when even the NFL calls them that doesn't seem right.


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    btw rkarp from NFL.com regarding CJ:


     


    "Fiedorowicz looks the part and has balanced skills to be a legitimate “Y” tight end in the pros. Is an asset as a competitive blocker and as a sure-handed receiver"


     


    so, the question I have are you hearing about these TE's from a source at ESPN or from a website you are checking out? Because, from what I've seen from them and from how you describe them we are on two completely different levels. I don't think any are really elite but solid with potential to be top 20 TE's Niklas and CJ have potential however, to call some poor blockers and not call them "Y" tight ends when even the NFL calls them that doesn't seem right.


     


    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus




    Loyko draft guide and spoke to Bedard. 


    predict CJ goes late 3rd or 4th


     CJ having too many drops and lapse in concentration. Nice size, nice speed. Below average blocker. Loyko gave him a 4th rd grade. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to rkarp's comment:



    Loyko draft guide and spoke to Bedard. 


     


    predict CJ goes late 3rd or 4th


     


     CJ having too many drops and lapse in concentration. Nice size, nice speed. Below average blocker. Loyko gave him a 4th rd grade. 





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    CJ does look like a late 2nd to early 4th range for a pick, but below average blocker is new to me. Iowa of all schools is known for having above average blocking TE's. It's hard to be a starting TE their an be a below average blocker. Good to know about Loyko though, will avoid them in the future. Bedard is a bit of a shock considering you didn't think he was a "Y" type. Thought you were going to say you got your info from Kiper.


    Curran seems to like him:


    TO THE GOOD

    Huge player with excellent blocking skills (exhibited here) and a smooth receiver. Runs well after the catch, shows good balance and can take a hit. Durable as evidenced by his playing every game. Runs sharp routes and shows knack for adjusting to ball. No awkwardness at all.

    TO THE BAD

    Doesn’t show great explosiveness. Nice numbers in vertical and broad jump. Reaches a little bit as a blocker and doesn’t sink hips in some instances. Modest production his final season at Iowa. I’m not seeing a lot of negatives.


    http://www.csnne.com/node/775906" rel="nofollow">http://www.csnne.com/node/775906


    from most places and people I trust I'm hearing nothing but good things about his blocking potential and he has more upside in receiving than his college stats suggest

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to PatsEng's comment:


    In response to rkarp's comment:


     



    Loyko draft guide and spoke to Bedard. 


     


     


     


    predict CJ goes late 3rd or 4th


     


     


     


     CJ having too many drops and lapse in concentration. Nice size, nice speed. Below average blocker. Loyko gave him a 4th rd grade. 


     





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    CJ does look like a late 2nd to early 4th range for a pick, but below average blocker is new to me. Iowa of all schools is known for having above average blocking TE's. It's hard to be a starting TE their an be a below average blocker. Good to know about Loyko though, will avoid them in the future. Bedard is a bit of a shock considering you didn't think he was a "Y" type. Thought you were going to say you got your info from Kiper.


     


    Curran seems to like him:


     


    TO THE GOOD

    Huge player with excellent blocking skills (exhibited here) and a smooth receiver. Runs well after the catch, shows good balance and can take a hit. Durable as evidenced by his playing every game. Runs sharp routes and shows knack for adjusting to ball. No awkwardness at all.

    TO THE BAD

    Doesn’t show great explosiveness. Nice numbers in vertical and broad jump. Reaches a little bit as a blocker and doesn’t sink hips in some instances. Modest production his final season at Iowa. I’m not seeing a lot of negatives.


     


    http://www.csnne.com/node/775906" rel="nofollow">http://www.csnne.com/node/775906" rel="nofollow">http://www.csnne.com/node/775906


     


    from most places and people I trust I'm hearing nothing but good things about his blocking potential and he has more upside in receiving than his college stats suggest




    You could be correct. I think he slides.


    TBC a week from tonight

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsTxGrl. Show PatsTxGrl's posts

    Re: Dustin Keller Update

    In response to mellymel3's comment:


    In response to PatsTxGrl's comment:


     


    This message board is ticky tacky.


     




    Thank you for your meaningful contribution!






    You are welcome!!!

     
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