Early season health paying dividends ...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Early season health issues paying dividends ...

    Stop and think about the extreme discontinuity on the roster early in the season. 

    Dobson eventually won the starting job, but not before Thompkins got a series of reps. 

    Hooman was the primary target, but Mullligan (a guy who may have been cut if Hern hadn't murdered a few guys) managed to get his reps.

    The offense was dysfunctional because of the skeleton crew and young players shifting in and out. It didn't look pretty playing with all new players, top to bottom.

    But now, Dobson is going to miss time and so is Hooman ... and NE has backups with some experience right there behind them. 

    The story line was: this could be rocky up front, but it could pay dividends doanw the stretch. These are dividends. 

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    Good thread.   At the end of the day, we have BB to thank.



    You are unreal man.  BB runs everything here.  He is responsible for the good and the bad.  We all know this.  You like to give credit for the good but blame others for the bad. 

    Just seeing you always posting "we have BB to thank" shows just what a whack job you are. You must dream about him every night with such a big man crush you have for him.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    Right on all points guys.

    That only reinforces this fact:

      It must really suck to be a Jets fan.  LOL! 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:

    Good thread.   



    Thanks. There is no question about the role Bill and the entire coaching staff (earlier McD and of late Matt Patricia) have mitigated the extreme roster turnover this season. I think it also vindicates the micro-management policy, where Ne is constantly eyeballing every last roster spot to the tune of a bevy of cryptic tiny personell decisions throughout the season. Ultimately those players contribute something. 

    We could also spend time lauding the sole veterans on the offense like Brady and Edelman who played enough mistake free football to win in what was the football IR list equivalent of the perfect storm. The offense wasn't in a position to excel, but it was in a position to help itself. New England is currently 5th in total giveaways despite playing with the all-NCAA team for the first seven weeks, and with a different starting cast each of the first eight weeks. And that comes after a game that featured 3 fumbles (NE was tied for second before last weeks butterfinger's eating competition).

    And of course, the standout play of players on defense deserves a nod as well. A couple immense clutch performances from Talib (Demaryius Thomas and Jimmy Graham together combined for 41 yards and one TD) take front an center stage. Chad Jones' season long campaign for sack champion is as crucial as anything else. And Chris Jone's surprising play, the depth at LBer, Steve Gregory, Dennard, et al, provide a great frame for how resilient and competetive they have been on defense. 

    My thread is really about circumstances and the hidden fortune. 

    Early in the season while the board was really contentious, many people were commenting that, even if it was ugly, the situation that forced Thompkins, Dobson, Edelman, and Mulligan out there as a starting unit was a blessing in disguise. 

    I began to reflect on that. Perhaps if Gronk and Amendola were healthy from the get-go NE might have won against Cincinatti. But if Thompkins hadn't gotten those reps erarly on would NE have beaten Denver? When Dobson went down and Thompkins came in for three catches in the biggest drive of the game I really wondered that. 

    If Dobson and Hooman miss a few games down the stretch, and you are basically starting from square one with Thompkins, it would likley have been a larger impedement than it is now. 

    Outside of the great coaching, clutch situational play by veterans, and fantastic development by newer players ... this one circumstance, which no one would have wanted or would have tried, might be coming back to help the team overall as it grinds toward another playoff birth.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostatewarrior. Show bostatewarrior's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    This does bring up the question: Why does the "next man up" thing seem to work better for the Pats than other teams?

    I hear fans complaining that the Pats are under the cap and that they could have paid some waning star more money.  People imply that the team is cheap.

    Yet the Pats have the highest paid practice squad EVERY YEAR.

    I think the Pats win despite injuries because they PAY backups.

    I think they do well with udfa's because they pay a premium for backup talent.

    Sorry if I wandered off your point zbellino.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Stop and think about the extreme discontinuity on the roster early in the season. 

    Dobson eventually won the starting job, but not before Thompkins got a series of reps. 

    Hooman was the primary target, but Mullligan (a guy who may have been cut if Hern hadn't murdered a few guys) managed to get his reps.

    The offense was dysfunctional because of the skeleton crew and young players shifting in and out. It didn't look pretty playing with all new players, top to bottom.

    But now, Dobson is going to miss time and so is Hooman ... and NE has backups with some experience right there behind them. 

    The story line was: this could be rocky up front, but it could pay dividends doanw the stretch. These are dividends. 

    [/QUOTE]


    Agreed. They have played pretty decent through some adversity, and lost some games thanks to the refs.

    The one game they didn't deserve to win was the day from hell against the Bungles.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    I think the hope always was (at least on offense) that Tom was going to struggle a bit early on until these guys got to know what it is like to play against defenses in the NFL...and think that happened...they struggled, but improved. Lord knows we needed an infusion of talent at the wideout spot...watching Baltimore or any good defenses shut down our outside guys allowing a saturation of mid field coverage gobble up Welker, Hernandez and Gronk got old.

    i like being able to send Thompkins out there with his quickness/speed. I'm hoping Dobson will return and be able to continue to do the same. Having Vareen helps too...and a healthy Gronk going into the post season would be the biggest thing.

    If we had some defensive tackles that could play I'd really like our chances. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    "When you get a 53 man roster all pushing in one direction like this, good things happen."

    True - but you aren't sniffing a championship without a great QB and a playmaker or two in offense/defense skill positions. 

    Your views on football are very idealized and reflect a kind of socialist dictatorship, with a leader who is not allowed to be criticized at the top, and an enforced egaliatarianism underneath where every man rows and no one is more important than the rowing as a whole. 

    There is some truth in it but it falls short. Stars matter, especially at the QB position with the new offensive rules. The NFL of 20 years ago was closer to what you are waxing poetic for, though even then Bradshaw, Montana, Staubach etc were cleaning up more than inferior QBs. 

    If Brady were to go down, your "next man up" philosophy would falter and we would not have a shot in the postseason. 

    That said, aside from the QB position where you can only spell a great QB for a few games, BB is probably the best in the league at depth and schemes that cover lack of depth across the rest of the positions. He is genius-level at that and it's one key to his hall of fame coaching resume.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This does bring up the question: Why does the "next man up" thing seem to work better for the Pats than other teams?

    I hear fans complaining that the Pats are under the cap and that they could have paid some waning star more money.  People imply that the team is cheap.

    Yet the Pats have the highest paid practice squad EVERY YEAR.

    I think the Pats win despite injuries because they PAY backups.

    I think they do well with udfa's because they pay a premium for backup talent.

    Sorry if I wandered off your point zbellino.

    [/QUOTE]

    Absolutely agree, BB values even the 90 man roster in training camp. The players who he brought in had an affect on his team going forward. No other general manager places such emphasis on 6th snd 7th round picks, as well as FA pick ups.Suddenly draft picks like Ryan, Harmon, Buch, and acquisitions like Jones and Vellano seem to make sense as depth is more important to our team then higher priced players.

    In terms of coaching, they have always been good with player development, except in the receiver department where it seems to be the big 3 or 4 guys get the bulk of the targets in our offense.  This is where Z's point comes into play. Would these guys have gotten playing time in our system without injuries, or murders? I say no, as we have little patience in that area for the last 5 years. This is a great thread topic, and will be interesting to see more opinions. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "When you get a 53 man roster all pushing in one direction like this, good things happen."

    True - but you aren't sniffing a championship without a great QB and a playmaker or two in offense/defense skill positions. 

    Your views on football are very idealized and reflect a kind of socialist dictatorship, with a leader who is not allowed to be criticized at the top, and an enforced egaliatarianism underneath where every man rows and no one is more important than the rowing as a whole. 

    There is some truth in it but it falls short. Stars matter, especially at the QB position with the new offensive rules. The NFL of 20 years ago was closer to what you are waxing poetic for, though even then Bradshaw, Montana, Staubach etc were cleaning up more than inferior QBs. 

    If Brady were to go down, your "next man up" philosophy would falter and we would not have a shot in the postseason. 

    That said, aside from the QB position where you can only spell a great QB for a few games, BB is probably the best in the league at depth and schemes that cover lack of depth across the rest of the positions. He is genius-level at that and it's one key to his hall of fame coaching resume.

    [/QUOTE]

    The only time we have ever lost Brady our team went 11-5 which is good for a post season appearance 90% of the time, so what do you base your opinion on? 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to DeadAhead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Good thread.   At the end of the day, we have BB to thank. Just recently I was reading some interviews and the new or younger players were raving about the coaching staff.  

    Svitek said he feels like a rookie because Scar is not only pushing him like he never has seen befoere (9 years with KC and ATL), but because of how detail oriented he is and how he puts importance on every technique and approach in the book.

    We're flat out blessed to be experiencing all what BB provides not only the players, but the fans.

    When you get a 53 man roster all pushing in one direction like this, good things happen.

    Depth, balance, consistency.  Next man up indeed. This organization is the envy of the league and has been for over a decade.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, indeed.  Other coaches around the NFL just are not detail oriented and they just plain refuse to push their players.  Of course, given the Patriots string of superbowls in the last decade, they are the envy of the NFL, as opposed to, say, one of the teams that has actually won a superbowl in that time.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    This does bring up the question: Why does the "next man up" thing seem to work better for the Pats than other teams?

    I hear fans complaining that the Pats are under the cap and that they could have paid some waning star more money.  People imply that the team is cheap.

    Yet the Pats have the highest paid practice squad EVERY YEAR.

    I think the Pats win despite injuries because they PAY backups.

    I think they do well with udfa's because they pay a premium for backup talent.

    Sorry if I wandered off your point zbellino.

    [/QUOTE]


    Haha. You kind of answer your own question. New England is always bringing people in for a cup of coffee. They are consistently vetting the roster to the last spot. They have an enormous amount of transactions. They might not carry the best athletes, in fact they let better athletes go, but they always carry guys that do a  job.

    It IS off my point, which is about blessings in disguise ... but it is true. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we had some defensive tackles that could play I'd really like our chances. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

    [/QUOTE]


    One thought about defensive tackles ... and I take flack for this ... but ok. 

    They are not nearly as important as people let on. Especially run stoppers. 

    The 2001 Patriots had Brandon Mitchell and Anthony Pleasant. It certainly wasn't much better than what they have now. 

    An opposing RB can't win a close game in the final minutes ... that gives you 55 minutes or so to mitigate what a RB can do. 

    I'll take the secondary and pass rushers NE ahs this season over the weak secondary and pass rush they had in seasons past ... even if it means giving up something in run defense. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    Can we NOT turn this into ANOTHER Brady vs Belichik thread. Please!?!?

    Both are all-time greats ... both would have had success in another timeline ... neither would have had as much success without the other. 

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    For the most part, I'd say this is true......with the exception of the inside OL and DL, and maybe the TE and DB positions. The depths in these positions are being tapped into, and the backups (i.e., Kline) have very little pro experience.

    The Patriots have a good chance in winning their last 5 games - with hopefully no more than one loss - but I don't think it will be  because of the quality of the depth of the roster.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from portfolio1. Show portfolio1's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If we had some defensive tackles that could play I'd really like our chances. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

    [/QUOTE]


    One thought about defensive tackles ... and I take flack for this ... but ok. 

    They are not nearly as important as people let on. Especially run stoppers. 

    The 2001 Patriots had Brandon Mitchell and Anthony Pleasant. It certainly wasn't much better than what they have now. 

    An opposing RB can't win a close game in the final minutes ... that gives you 55 minutes or so to mitigate what a RB can do. 

    I'll take the secondary and pass rushers NE ahs this season over the weak secondary and pass rush they had in seasons past ... even if it means giving up something in run defense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Some good thoughts in this thread (Meadow notwithstanding... by the way.. is she the same Meadow that was on The Sopranos? I don't think so. This Meadow always seems to be having a bad hair day).

    I dont quite agree regarding DTs. One of the problems you get with bad DTs/NTs is that O linemen get easy shots at LBers. So it is not just about the DTs making the tackle though that is nice. 

    If we had been playing a QB who was good in cold windy conditions last week the running yards we gave up would have killed us. You cant count on playing a QB who is just overmatched by the weather.

    Some of the bad lpays by the LBs like Hightower were in part due to the bad play in front of them.

    Still, in this passing league it is not insurmountable. It might mean that you take greater risks with schemes that cover up a weakness. We took chances last week by focusing heavily on pass D and not much on run D. Stopping the run is possible but it might mean taking a bigger risk on the passing side. Not something you genreally do in this league with the current rules that make the passing stats like batting stats in the steroid years v 1968 before they raised the mound (AL batting leader batted 301 in 1968)...

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    Absolutely, the early turmoil on offense (while still winning) has paid dividends to this point in the season. The defense won the games early and now the offense is responding in the nick of time.

    The Patriots are an amazing 45-6 since 2001 in the month of December so we know they'll finish strong. However, it remains to be seen how this team will respond in the playoffs.

    With wins over the Saints and Broncos, albeit both games were at home, they showed they can beat anyone. The playoff competition is less than scary. I just hope it doesn't end up like the 2010 season.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    It's funny because anyone who has been paying attention over the past 13 years knows how BB hates playing the young guys.  In fact you can look at injuries as being the most important factor in this teams success since 2001.  Thank you Mr. Lewis.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Early season health paying dividends ...

    Yeah, BB's off-season actions left many question marks, and then he responded inadequately to new issues that arose, forcing green guys to get experience in a baptism of fire. The couple of games we probably lost because of that series of suspect decisions may now allow that hard earned experience to possibly help us a little.

     
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