EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CommyContrarianOnTwitter. Show CommyContrarianOnTwitter's posts

    EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    A LONG STRETCH BUT IT could happen.. both guys may b lookig for long $ and long years. no way no how on talib, perhaps the franchise tag but we already have his replacement in house. logan ryan and dennard make a pretty good combo going forward with arrington and a draft pick or 2. with edelman, there is a definite psych issue involved.

    tb has been stretched as far as he can go. cant mess with mo alienation next year. for that reason in itself u go 4 and 16 with julian and dont let pennies separate u from him.. even if we overpay a bit, well woth it. heard bb comparing him to phil simms in terms of a guy who was once a hurt warrior who overturned his fate. bb like stalib as a tampa recruiter but that cupboard is now bare. if i only could have one, absolutely want mr. edelman!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 42AND46. Show 42AND46's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A LONG STRETCH BUT IT could happen.. both guys may b lookig for long $ and long years. no way no how on talib, perhaps the franchise tag but we already have his replacement in house. logan ryan and dennard make a pretty good combo going forward with arrington and a draft pick or 2. with edelman, there is a definite psych issue involved.

    tb has been stretched as far as he can go. cant mess with mo alienation next year. for that reason in itself u go 4 and 16 with julian and dont let pennies separate u from him.. even if we overpay a bit, well woth it. heard bb comparing him to phil simms in terms of a guy who was once a hurt warrior who overturned his fate. bb like stalib as a tampa recruiter but that cupboard is now bare. if i only could have one, absolutely want mr. edelman!

    [/QUOTE]


    Wes Welker : )

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    With the cap hell Pats, I just can't see how they will be able to sign either.  Looks like the Jets will be sitting around 40 mil under the cap and 10-12 draft picks.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    With the cap hell Pats, I just can't see how they will be able to sign either.  Looks like the Jets will be sitting around 40 mil under the cap and 10-12 draft picks.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Plus Geno Smith and Rex Ryan, what could possibly go wrong?

    Pats will have about $15 mil in cap space, perhaps more (depending on VW and Mankins and a couple of others) to sign their players.

    Both will be back unless someone offers them stupid money. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeadowlandMike. Show MeadowlandMike's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    With the cap hell Pats, I just can't see how they will be able to sign either.  Looks like the Jets will be sitting around 40 mil under the cap and 10-12 draft picks.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Plus Geno Smith and Rex Ryan, what could possibly go wrong?

    Pats will have about $15 mil in cap space, perhaps more (depending on VW and Mankins and a couple of others) to sign their players.

    Both will be back unless someone offers them stupid money. 

    [/QUOTE]

    15 mil?  Really?  How is that going to come to be?  Will they go back to the Tom Brady well again and extend him a few more years? Will they ask Mankins, who BB has already tried to screw over to take a pay cut?  What is a 33 year old NT worth coming over a career ending injury?

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    With the cap hell Pats, I just can't see how they will be able to sign either.  Looks like the Jets will be sitting around 40 mil under the cap and 10-12 draft picks.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Plus Geno Smith and Rex Ryan, what could possibly go wrong?

    Pats will have about $15 mil in cap space, perhaps more (depending on VW and Mankins and a couple of others) to sign their players.

    Both will be back unless someone offers them stupid money. 

    [/QUOTE]

    15 mil?  Really?  How is that going to come to be?  Will they go back to the Tom Brady well again and extend him a few more years? Will they ask Mankins, who BB has already tried to screw over to take a pay cut?  What is a 33 year old NT worth coming over a career ending injury?

    [/QUOTE]

    Easy. $4 - $6 mil right now, possibly more (depending on where cap ends up). $6 to $8 mil savings from VW alone, depending on cut or restructure ($8 mil if they cut him outright). All of the following are candidates for cut or restructure (and maximum possible savings in millions):

    Mankins ($2.5), Mayo ($3.7), Connolly ($3.0), Ghost ($3.0), Sopoaga ($2.75), Gregory ($2.35), Kelly ($2.5), AWilson ($1.2). Plus any number of other guys at numbers less than $1 mil. There's also the possibility of relief from Hernandez's $7.5 mil hit, depending on how that shakes out. 

    A restructure of VW, plus the release of Gregory, Soap and Wilson and nothing else, that's $13 mil in savings, plus the $4 to $6 they already have. Do the math.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MeadowlandMike's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    With the cap hell Pats, I just can't see how they will be able to sign either.  Looks like the Jets will be sitting around 40 mil under the cap and 10-12 draft picks.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Plus Geno Smith and Rex Ryan, what could possibly go wrong?

    Pats will have about $15 mil in cap space, perhaps more (depending on VW and Mankins and a couple of others) to sign their players.

    Both will be back unless someone offers them stupid money. 

    [/QUOTE]

    15 mil?  Really?  How is that going to come to be?  Will they go back to the Tom Brady well again and extend him a few more years? Will they ask Mankins, who BB has already tried to screw over to take a pay cut?  What is a 33 year old NT worth coming over a career ending injury?

    [/QUOTE]

    Easy. $4 - $6 mil right now, possibly more (depending on where cap ends up). $6 to $8 mil savings from VW alone, depending on cut or restructure ($8 mil if they cut him outright). All of the following are candidates for cut or restructure (and maximum possible savings in millions):

    Mankins ($2.5), Mayo ($3.7), Connolly ($3.0), Ghost ($3.0), Sopoaga ($2.75), Gregory ($2.35), Kelly ($2.5), AWilson ($1.2). Plus any number of other guys at numbers less than $1 mil. There's also the possibility of relief from Hernandez's $7.5 mil hit, depending on how that shakes out. 

    A restructure of VW, plus the release of Gregory, Soap and Wilson and nothing else, that's $13 mil in savings, plus the $4 to $6 they already have. Do the math.

    [/QUOTE]

    Muzzy, they don't have $4-6 now. Right now, they are at the 2014 Cap limit

    they will need approx $5M to sign rookies

    they like to carry $5-7M for in season moves, but that may change in 2014 due to a tight cap

    as of today, there will be no relief on Hernandez, and as of now, the team is not contesting that.

    i can see them taking hard decisions with Mankins and Vince to some extent, but they do not have the depth to walk away from them. 

    Cutting mayo works in reverse, as it is a greater cap hit than he is owed for 2014.

    they will have limited flexibility of about $8M in free agency, and I would assume they look at Talib and OL. Edelman was great this year, but I believe BB sets a limit and won't go over it. Other teams will, leaving Edelman no choice.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    Talib. He is essential to the D. Edeman's 100 catches will be caught by others easily enough.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    Talib. edelman's grow on trees. aka thru Tom Brady's arm. good qb= atleast decent slot receiver. Take the risk with Amendola and cut him after 2014 if it doesn't work. Slot WRs are dime a dozen

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Talib. edelman's grow on trees. aka thru Tom Brady's arm. good qb= atleast decent slot receiver. Take the risk with Amendola and cut him after 2014 if it doesn't work. Slot WRs are dime a dozen

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    I hope they'd keep Edelman.  Losing Talib will be tough, but he's often hurt and either out or not at 100 percent - I know Edelman's had injury issues also - but I'm of the mind that replacing Talib with someone slightly less talented will be easier than replacing a good possession receiver who knows a difficult-to-learn offense.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to gr82bme's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I hope they'd keep Edelman.  Losing Talib will be tough, but he's often hurt and either out or not at 100 percent - I know Edelman's had injury issues also - but I'm of the mind that replacing Talib with someone slightly less talented will be easier than replacing a good possession receiver who knows a difficult-to-learn offense.

    [/QUOTE]

    That's the big question with Talib... is the hip a chronic injury or is it something they can fix surgically and he is 100%. I don't think investing long term dollars on a injury risk is something they will persue. They will have to be relatively certain on his health or it is Ryan and Dennard and they draft or find another CB in free agency.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?


    This article sums why the pats, like every year, will be fine next year.  On a side note, I particularly like the part how Devin Mccourty was the highest rated safety in the league at the bye weel, and it wasn't close.

     

    With the New England Patriots on their bye week this weekend, there are numerous questions surrounding the team: is the offensive explosion against Pittsburgh an outlier or the new normal for the offense? Has anyone ever seen injured defensive tackle Armond Armstead? Is he a mirage or does he really exist? Will there be eleven healthy players on the defense by the end of the regular season or will the Patriots be running out Marquice Cole and ten un-drafted free agents?

     

    One concept that the team needs to always be focused on is the long-term contract situations, extensions, and contract restructuring and reworking. Although the team does not always take care of contracts during the season, the bye week is the perfect time to look at the team’s contract situations on the horizon in 2014.

     

    With former tight end Aaron Hernandez suiting up for the Bristol County Penitentiary, the team will go into 2014 with a $7.5 million dead money charge on the cap due to his release (all cap numbers courtesy of OvertheCap.com). There are certain players who have hardly stepped foot on the field whose release could free up money quite painlessly such as defensive backs Tavon Wilson and Adrian Wilson. Their releases would save about $1.5 million combined salary cap space if they were cut.

     

    Add in some veterans who might be in line for extensions and or reworking their contracts and cap space should again be readily available to lock up some younger veterans. Letting go of newly acquired defensive tackle Isaac Sopoaga would free up $2.75 million in cap space. Fellow defensive tackle Vince Wilfork has a cap number of $11.6 million, guardLogan Mankins is at $10.6 million and guard Dan Connolly is a pinch over $4 million in cap space taken up.

     

    Besides reworking those veterans and their high cap numbers, there are several free agents to address. Key offseason free agents are cornerback Aqib Talib, linebacker Brandon Spikes, and starting center Ryan Wendell. Of the three, Talib–who has been outstanding in pass coverage this season when healthy–is the most coveted of the group.

     

    Since the team has recently gone through contentious negotiations with defensive tackleVince Wilfork, former wide receiver Deion Branch, former cornerback Asante Samuel, and recently departed wide receiver Wes Welker, and guard Logan Mankins it would be wise to attempt to sign the players with a year remaining on their contract. With Safety Devin McCourty rated as the best safety in the NFL this season by ProFootballFocus.com by a large margin (+17.4 overall grade, TJ Ward of Cleveland is 2nd at +11.7 and Earl Thomas3rd at +8.5) it makes sense to consider approaching him soon regarding a contract extension.

     

    Next season McCourty will be entering his final year of his contract with a modest cap number of $2.1 million. The team could consider paying him more short term in order to save much more long term. While McCourty is one of head coach Bill Belichick’s favorite players on the defense (only linebacker Jerod Mayo challenges McCourty for Belichick’s favorite), it seems like a foregone conclusion he and the team will eventually re-up on a contract extension. The same situation also applies for left tackle Nate Solder at one of the most important positions protecting the franchise’s blind side. ProFootballFocus.com rates Solder as the top tackle in the NFL ahead of highly paid, big name tackles like Jake Long, Trent Williams, Joe Staley, and Joe Thomas. Solder, as he comes to the end of his rookie contract after next season, has clearly out-performed his deal. Next season his cap number will be a manageable $2.7 million. With the cost of top tackles in free agency at least triple if not more that salary, the team will again need to pay more upfront to save money later on in his contract.

     

    Finally, running back Stevan Ridley is closing in on his final year of his rookie contract next year. While Ridley has had trouble with fumbles and been inexplicably benched at times, there is no doubt the Patriots offense passes the “eye test” and functions better and performs more efficiently with Ridley in the backfield. While the Patriots do not usually sign middle round draft picks to costly extensions, Ridley–with his talent in the backfield–could be the exception.With the issues the Patriots have had with their own free agents, they should, during this break in the season be attempting to lock up these three core players to extensions like they did with tight end Rob Gronkowski so that they avoid future headaches and keep their best players in New England. While there will be some big decisions to make with the salary cap next season, the Patriots should consider not repeating their history and removing potentially contentious negotiations before getting to the point of slapping on franchise tags.

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    It is unfortunate a team can't stay together like in the good ol' days for years.  The fact the Pats have been doing it in this salary cap - parity era is amazing.  All to the chagrin of the NFL.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to CommyContrarianOnTwitter's comment:

    A LONG STRETCH BUT IT could happen.. both guys may b lookig for long $ and long years. no way no how on talib, perhaps the franchise tag but we already have his replacement in house. logan ryan and dennard make a pretty good combo going forward with arrington and a draft pick or 2. with edelman, there is a definite psych issue involved.

    tb has been stretched as far as he can go. cant mess with mo alienation next year. for that reason in itself u go 4 and 16 with julian and dont let pennies separate u from him.. even if we overpay a bit, well woth it. heard bb comparing him to phil simms in terms of a guy who was once a hurt warrior who overturned his fate. bb like stalib as a tampa recruiter but that cupboard is now bare. if i only could have one, absolutely want mr. edelman!




    Julian Edelman has quickly risen to being one of, if not my favorite player On the TEAM. He is the human Swiss Army Knife...BUT! if I can only have one, it's Aquib Talib without a doubt. Good CBs in the NFL are hard to find and are so critical to a teams D success. They are the most important players on the D in my estimation. We all know that our offense with Tom is simply an WR stat factory and that Tom can make a good receiver into a hiusehold name in a matter of weeks. I want both, but TALIB is the only right choice. You can never have too many GOOD CBs. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tenace4life. Show tenace4life's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    Talib is harder to replace . . . not that many good CBs in pro football . . . Edelman can be replaced by Amendola, TJ Moe, a draft pick, Vereen, or moving Thomkins to the slot.  That being said I hope they can return both

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?


    Edelman. Draft Talib's replacement

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to kansaspatriot's comment:

     


    Edelman. Draft Talib's replacement

     




     

    Then what? Pray that he becomes an all pro CB like Talib? not likely. Rule of thumb, you keep the CB if both are the best at their positions. CB is the most physically challenging position on the field. OK. Thats your answer. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to agcsbill's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It is unfortunate a team can't stay together like in the good ol' days for years.  The fact the Pats have been doing it in this salary cap - parity era is amazing.  All to the chagrin of the NFL.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed, excellent front office work!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Muzwell. Show Muzwell's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Easy. $4 - $6 mil right now, possibly more (depending on where cap ends up). $6 to $8 mil savings from VW alone, depending on cut or restructure ($8 mil if they cut him outright). All of the following are candidates for cut or restructure (and maximum possible savings in millions):

    Mankins ($2.5), Mayo ($3.7), Connolly ($3.0), Ghost ($3.0), Sopoaga ($2.75), Gregory ($2.35), Kelly ($2.5), AWilson ($1.2). Plus any number of other guys at numbers less than $1 mil. There's also the possibility of relief from Hernandez's $7.5 mil hit, depending on how that shakes out. 

    A restructure of VW, plus the release of Gregory, Soap and Wilson and nothing else, that's $13 mil in savings, plus the $4 to $6 they already have. Do the math.

    [/QUOTE]

    Muzzy, they don't have $4-6 now. Right now, they are at the 2014 Cap limit

    they will need approx $5M to sign rookies

    they like to carry $5-7M for in season moves, but that may change in 2014 due to a tight cap

    as of today, there will be no relief on Hernandez, and as of now, the team is not contesting that.

    i can see them taking hard decisions with Mankins and Vince to some extent, but they do not have the depth to walk away from them. 

    Cutting mayo works in reverse, as it is a greater cap hit than he is owed for 2014.

    they will have limited flexibility of about $8M in free agency, and I would assume they look at Talib and OL. Edelman was great this year, but I believe BB sets a limit and won't go over it. Other teams will, leaving Edelman no choice.

    [/QUOTE]

    Either your numbers are wrong or mine are. I have them at $116 mil against their 2014 cap, cap about $122 plus or minus. Mayo's cap hit at $7.28 mil and his dead money at $3.6, so a savings of $3.68 if he's cut.

    VW will be restructured or cut, either way there's at least $6 mil in savings. There's big savings if they redo Mankins, but that would mean extending him as well. I don't see them extending either of those guys, too old. At some point, it's time to move on. Remember, remember, remember, BB's credo: it's better to cut a guy a year early than a year late. They've been plenty loyal to those guys over the years by paying them big money. If they cut them, it's about $11 mil in savings. That can buy a lot of depth.

    They have some hard decisions, but they'll be able to sign Talib and Edelman fairly easily, again, that's if they don't get a ridiculous offer from someone else.

    You may be right on Hern, but last I read there's been no final determination on his situation. There's a grievance hearing in March over the PA's claim that he should be paid his full bonus and what not. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from joepatsfan111111. Show joepatsfan111111's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?


    why would we cut Mayo..? he's worth every penny

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?

    In response to joepatsfan111111's comment:

     


    why would we cut Mayo..? he's worth every penny

     




     

    +1, wont happen  Mayo type talent w/smarts at LB is very rare. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: EDELMAN or TALIB, if you could only take ONE?


    At the same time, you are only in cap hell if you are near the limit and have a lot of players to sign.  Most of ours are under contract.  Assuming we get back the 26 million dollar players on IR who are some of the best at their positions in the league(vw, mayo, gronk, volmer, kelly) then we will be a much improved team next yesr without spending more money.

     

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