Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to bostatewarrior's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Edleman is tied with Devon Hester for the top career average yards per punt return among active players at 12.3 yards per return.

    [/QUOTE]

    Come on, really?  Is this a big deal?  Look at his punt return stats and I just don't understand why people think his punt return stats are a big deal.  They aren't!!

    A 12.3 lifetime average... Is that really a big deal compared to a player who has an 11 or 10 yard average?  Are those 1 or 2 yards really a big deal, LOL??  If he led the league in returns for td's or his averages were like 10+ yards better then everyone else then keep the beast!  But that isn't the case.  His punt return stats are no big deal.

    Edelman ave this past season was 10.7 yards, ranked 12 out of qualified players, 24th out of all players and he didn't have a TD return this past season. 

    2012 Edelman only had 17 returns, so his average was high at 15, and 1 td.  But Leodis McKelvin had 23 returns for an ave of 18.7 yards and had 2 td's.  Dwane Harris had 22 returns with an ave of 16.1 yards and he had 1 td. 

    So you say Edelman is tied with Hester in average yards at 12.3, what is the big deal?  Hester has 13 td's in 8 years, Edelman has 3 td's in 5 years. 

    People making a big deal about Edelman's punt return stats, when they really aren't a big deal.  Now if you say he is the best on the team and offers the dual role and nobody else can return punts then we are talking, but if you are saying keep him because he leads the league in averages of 12.3 yards then LMAO, the numbers and stats show that is a very, very weak argument.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    Edelman has proven to be far more durable and reliable than Amendola. He is also a major threat on every punt return. If I had to chose between the two I pick Edeleman.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYC. Show NYC's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm skeptical. I think 3 million is probably more like it. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Agreed. JE has had 1 good season and has a history of injury. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to m. a. pat's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    I really think the Pats part with him. They still have Moe. And they can draft Wimberly who is available on the third day/ FA. 




    If those numbers are anywhere close to Edelman's projected contract, I think the Pats move on without him. It's a shame because he's a dynamic PR and a better slot guy than Amendola.

    I'm not sold on Moe even making the roster next year (liked Curly better).

     

     




    Dynamic Punt returner??  I don't think he is.

     

    I like that he is willing to do anything asked of him.  Hate to see him go, especially if Amendola can't stay on the field and isn't being the receiver many thought he would be.  But with the Amendola contract I just don't see both these guys making that type of money especially when I think they need to bring someone else in who is a more experienced mid to deep field receiver.   

    [/QUOTE]

    I tend to agree with many of your posts but feel that you are off base here. It is quite easy to see that Edelman is a MAJOR weapon on any punt return and a huge plus when he is in there fielding kicks.  How this plays into a contract I do not know but I feel you are greatly undervaluing him as a return man.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Per WEEI... Link

    Feb 5, 2014

    We discuss the Patriots off-season moves with NFL Media's Ian Rapoport, who believes the interest in Julien Edelman from some teams will be substantial enough to possibly push his annual salary in the 6-7 million range.

    ================

    Seriously?  After 1 good season? Tough spot for the Pats to be in.

    .

     

    Top 5 punt returner in NFL, top 5 receiver in NFL during this past season. Great year. Based on history, hard to believe the PATS would be willing to spend $7-mil to keep him. BUT, I hope Bill finds a way to make it work at a price that both sides can live with. JE's level of versatility is rare. The PAT's offensive needs must be filled THIS YEAR if Tom is to have a real shot at another trophy. Tough decision. I believe this offseason will prove to be Bill's defining year as a GM. Go gett'm BB!!!




    You're saying that he was Top 5 in receptions and not that he's a Top 5 WR in the NFL this past season, right?

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to jam757's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I tend to agree with many of your posts but feel that you are off base here. It is quite easy to see that Edelman is a MAJOR weapon on any punt return and a huge plus when he is in there fielding kick show this plays into a contract I do not know but I feel you are greatly undervaluing him as a return man.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks dude!  I value Edelman as a receiver and punt returner but he isn't a major returner.  Please tell me what qualifies him as a major returner.  His 3 punt returns for tds in 5 years? LOL!  Or is it his 12.3 yard punt return average?  LOL!! Come on now.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jam757. Show jam757's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jam757's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I tend to agree with many of your posts but feel that you are off base here. It is quite easy to see that Edelman is a MAJOR weapon on any punt return and a huge plus when he is in there fielding kick show this plays into a contract I do not know but I feel you are greatly undervaluing him as a return man.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks dude!  I value Edelman as a receiver and punt returner but he isn't a major returner.  Please tell me what qualifies him as a major returner.  His 3 punt returns for tds in 5 years? LOL!  Or is it his 12.3 yard punt return average?  LOL!! Come on now.

    [/QUOTE]

    How is three punt TDs in five years a bad thing! I am not saying he is the best is the league but he is still a huge bonus for the team. If you have not noticed he is extremely elusive and 12.3 is a solid average. have you noticed how poor the Pats kick off returns have been for  years. This is a major weakness. I hope the punt returns do not become a weakness as well.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to jam757's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jam757's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I tend to agree with many of your posts but feel that you are off base here. It is quite easy to see that Edelman is a MAJOR weapon on any punt return and a huge plus when he is in there fielding kick show this plays into a contract I do not know but I feel you are greatly undervaluing him as a return man.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanks dude!  I value Edelman as a receiver and punt returner but he isn't a major returner.  Please tell me what qualifies him as a major returner.  His 3 punt returns for tds in 5 years? LOL!  Or is it his 12.3 yard punt return average?  LOL!! Come on now.

    [/QUOTE]

    How is three punt TDs in five years a bad thing! I am not saying he is the best is the league but he is still a huge bonus for the team. If you have not noticed he is extremely elusive and 12.3 is a solid average. have you noticed how poor the Pats kick off returns have been for  years. This is a major weakness. I hope the punt returns do not become a weakness as well.

    [/QUOTE]


    No, 3 td's isn't a bad thing but I wouldn't call it a major weapon.  And really, is 12.3 yards average really that much more "major" then say a punt returner who might have an 11 yard average but more td's? 

    I really think people are putting a bigger punt return value on Edelman then what the actual numbers show. I know Amendola can return punts, is there anyone else?  Would this (punt return) be a major loss if Edelman left?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    Just a few comments

     

    the Pats were number four in points scored, 

    In the playoffs we never know what we are going to get from the Oline, which btw was the biggest under performers in SB 42 and 46

    The other big problem has been a healthy Gronk and then talib

    And, the pats must win the physical battle without those guys, how?

    i am a huge TB fan, but sometimes I get discouraged with reading how he loses trust in certain recvrs. At the end of the yr JE was the one he had the most trust in, and it took JE 5 yrs to get Tbs trust

    We need a better Oline, figure out the DT , and a SS thumper, 7 m for JE seems high and I have always liked him. But we need these others more

    one comment on the SB, I don't think the Seahags are that much better than the top teams, they had PMs hand signals and knew what was coming. Making them look faster. am not saying they weren't the best team, but for the most part were not great on the road, and the broncos didn't look ready, I thought Fox did a horrible job, and PM is a pure front runner

     

     

     

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to Muzwell's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here's how you pay Edelman $7 mil a year: 4 years $28 mil, $10 mil guaranteed ($8 mil signing bonus plus first year salary fully guaranteed).  

                 Salary                    Cap Hit                      Dead

    2014       2 mil                      4.5 mil                       10 mil                                    

    2015       3 mil                      5.5 mil                        6 mil      

    2016       5 mil                      7.5 mil                        4 mil                      

    2017       10 mil                    12.5 mil                       2 mil

    [/QUOTE]

    Muzzy, I agree with this contract. I would however make an amendment that the salaries for years 2015,16,17 are predicated on snaps played and performance. I think it fair given Edelmans injuries, that the team protects itself. Edelman still gets his guarantee.

    I also see/assume you are allotting $2.5 bonus money in 14,15,16,17, so it appears that you are allotting a $10M signing bonus ($2.5 X 4) and guarantee his 2014 salary of $2M.

    i also could agree with this $12M guarantee

    My question is what do the pats forsee with Amendola and will they pay both? And how are they projecting Boyce as a speed slot guy? And if they are going to get 180 rcpts and 1800 yards from Edelman and Amendola for $20M guaranteed can they get 160 rcpts and 1600 yards from Amendola, Boyce and Moe for $10.5M guaranteed? 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BILLB50. Show BILLB50's posts

    Decker


    If Decker gets sign by Broncos,do they cut Welker. Then would Pats try to sign him.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    In response to m. a. pat's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to seattlepat70's comment:

    I really think the Pats part with him. They still have Moe. And they can draft Wimberly who is available on the third day/ FA. 




    If those numbers are anywhere close to Edelman's projected contract, I think the Pats move on without him. It's a shame because he's a dynamic PR and a better slot guy than Amendola.

    I'm not sold on Moe even making the roster next year (liked Curly better).

     

     

     




    Dynamic Punt returner??  I don't think he is.

     

     

    I like that he is willing to do anything asked of him.  Hate to see him go, especially if Amendola can't stay on the field and isn't being the receiver many thought he would be.  But with the Amendola contract I just don't see both these guys making that type of money especially when I think they need to bring someone else in who is a more experienced mid to deep field receiver.   

     




     

    Yo TFB, there is another critical elemt to punt returning that JE excels at and is missed by most here. It increases the value of having him beyond just his return yards. Way back in the day, I had a coach who preached to me, and yes I was a returner at one time in my life that spanned for 10+ years at varying levels, that it was just as importnt to make the catch on the punt instead of giving up more yardage to the roll and burying your offense deep on your own end of the field. JE does an excellent job in Fair Catching many balls that most returners simply let bounce/roll for fear of not making a tough catch and turning it over, or even worse, coming forward and increasing chance of injury with dual force contact. Its a scary spot to be in. SITTING DUCK! JE does a fantastic job in making those fair catches where he races forward to make the catch in a crowd thereby saving 10, 15, 20+ yards on some occasions. That takes a ton of courage, one for lack of fear of turning it over, and two because contact in such a position could be devastating. He was the only one of the top three punt returners this past season to also be in the top 7 punt returners for fair catches. If we counted YARDAGE SAVED by FAIR CATCH, dude is fearless when it comes to catching the ball while racing forward sometimes at a very high speed. Coaches love that DYNAMIC ability and confidence to do this..........Just a thought to consider and is more meaningful than you might first think. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Yo TFB, there is another critical elemt to punt returning that JE excels at and is missed by most here. It increases the value of having him beyond just his return yards. Way back in the day, I had a coach who preached to me, and yes I was a returner at one time in my life that spanned for 10+ years at varying levels, that it was just as importnt to make the catch on the punt instead of giving up more yardage to the roll and burying your offense deep on your own end of the field. JE does an excellent job in Fair Catching many balls that most returners simply let bounce/roll for fear of not making a tough catch and turning it over, or even worse, coming forward and increasing chance of injury with dual force contact. Its a scary spot to be in. SITTING DUCK! JE does a fantastic job in making those fair catches where he races forward to make the catch in a crowd thereby saving 10, 15, 20+ yards on some occasions. That takes a ton of courage, one for lack of fear of turning it over, and two because contact in such a position could be devastating. He was the only one of the top three punt returners this past season to also be in the top 7 punt returners for fair catches. If we counted YARDAGE SAVED by FAIR CATCH, dude is fearless when it comes to catching the ball while racing forward sometimes at a very high speed. Coaches love that DYNAMIC ability and confidence to do this..........Just a thought to consider and is more meaningful than you might first think. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, you make a very good point RallyC.  But are there other punt returners who do the same thing?  I don't know, I really don't watch all the punt returners.  Too bad there wasn't some data on this.  As for the fair catches, not sure if you can really go by numbers there because While Edelman was tied for 4th in the number of fair catches there were others who had fewer fair catches but a higher % of their returns were fair catches so the same could be said about them, maybe even more so. 

    One thing for sure is Edelman makes me very nervous as a punt returner, lol!  I will shout at the tv to fair catch a punt and that nerves of steel Edelman will try and make a return.  He is fearless!  Not always a good thing.  I was a punt returner for a season and hated it, even though I was a good receiver I hated punt returns, it's not for everyone, haha!  Now kick returns I loved!!  There is no doubt Edelman brings a lot to the team, the guy has a ton of heart and is willing to play any position, do anything to get on the field and help win.  He is a stud.  I hope the Pats find a way to keep him.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Yo TFB, there is another critical elemt to punt returning that JE excels at and is missed by most here. It increases the value of having him beyond just his return yards. Way back in the day, I had a coach who preached to me, and yes I was a returner at one time in my life that spanned for 10+ years at varying levels, that it was just as importnt to make the catch on the punt instead of giving up more yardage to the roll and burying your offense deep on your own end of the field. JE does an excellent job in Fair Catching many balls that most returners simply let bounce/roll for fear of not making a tough catch and turning it over, or even worse, coming forward and increasing chance of injury with dual force contact. Its a scary spot to be in. SITTING DUCK! JE does a fantastic job in making those fair catches where he races forward to make the catch in a crowd thereby saving 10, 15, 20+ yards on some occasions. That takes a ton of courage, one for lack of fear of turning it over, and two because contact in such a position could be devastating. He was the only one of the top three punt returners this past season to also be in the top 7 punt returners for fair catches. If we counted YARDAGE SAVED by FAIR CATCH, dude is fearless when it comes to catching the ball while racing forward sometimes at a very high speed. Coaches love that DYNAMIC ability and confidence to do this..........Just a thought to consider and is more meaningful than you might first think. 



    Yes, you make a very good point RallyC.  But are there other punt returners who do the same thing?  I don't know, I really don't watch all the punt returners.  Too bad there wasn't some data on this.  As for the fair catches, not sure if you can really go by numbers there because While Edelman was tied for 4th in the number of fair catches there were others who had fewer fair catches but a higher % of their returns were fair catches so the same could be said about them, maybe even more so. 

    One thing for sure is Edelman makes me very nervous as a punt returner, lol!  I will shout at the tv to fair catch a punt and that nerves of steel Edelman will try and make a return.  He is fearless!  Not always a good thing.  I was a punt returner for a season and hated it, even though I was a good receiver I hated punt returns, it's not for everyone, haha!  Now kick returns I loved!!  There is no doubt Edelman brings a lot to the team, the guy has a ton of heart and is willing to play any position, do anything to get on the field and help win.  He is a stud.  I hope the Pats find a way to keep him.

    [/QUOTE]


    I heare ya TFB. One thing for sire.....We find out what kinda GM Bill is. He's gonna have to do his best job ever to figure all of these decision out. Should be fun to watch. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I heare ya TFB. One thing for sire.....We find out what kinda GM Bill is. He's gonna have to do his best job ever to figure all of these decision out. Should be fun to watch. 

    [/QUOTE]

    No doubt about it RallyC.  It is going to be very interesting this off season.  The Pats really have to go for it here.  Unfortunately I think it will take losing Wilfork in order to do so.  I think a few good tweeks and the Pats are right there again in the AFCCG.  But regardless who goes to the SB from the AFC, the NFC is going to be very tough to beat with the Seahawks and 49'ers.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I heare ya TFB. One thing for sire.....We find out what kinda GM Bill is. He's gonna have to do his best job ever to figure all of these decision out. Should be fun to watch. 



    No doubt about it RallyC.  It is going to be very interesting this off season.  The Pats really have to go for it here.  Unfortunately I think it will take losing Wilfork in order to do so.  I think a few good tweeks and the Pats are right there again in the AFCCG.  But regardless who goes to the SB from the AFC, the NFC is going to be very tough to beat with the Seahawks and 49'ers.

    [/QUOTE]


    Agreed. Vince's only real attribute now is his leadership. Not that its not important, but if he is able to rehab well enough to compete, if doesn't do what it takes to stay financially.....GOTTA GO. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    There is one major thing to think about when trying to figure if you should resign Edelman...up until this season the only thing guaranteed with Edelman was that he was going to get injured. He did that every year he was here - like clock work - he'd look good for a couple of games then you wouldn't see him for a month. Do you want to see that with your 7 million dollar receiver? We already DO see that with Amendola. We already see that with Gronk, can you live with Edelman doing that?

    I think the guy has improved so much as a player it's ridiculous, this guy used to fight the ball on any pass over ten yards...not anymore. He looks awesome too me - he caught some passes in traffic this year that were the sign of a good receiver - but that injury risk is very real with him.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to zbellino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    That's tough. He has them where he wants them. Stop what you are doing, and now imagine last season without Edelman.

    Revisit the decision. $7 million sounds like too much (it is) but the rest of the corps are question marks.

    [/QUOTE]

    +!

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from m. a. pat. Show m. a. pat's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is one major thing to think about when trying to figure if you should resign Edelman...up until this season the only thing guaranteed with Edelman was that he was going to get injured. He did that every year he was here - like clock work - he'd look good for a couple of games then you wouldn't see him for a month. Do you want to see that with your 7 million dollar receiver? We already DO see that with Amendola. We already see that with Gronk, can you live with Edelman doing that?

    I think the guy has improved so much as a player it's ridiculous, this guy used to fight the ball on any pass over ten yards...not anymore. He looks awesome too me - he caught some passes in traffic this year that were the sign of a good receiver - but that injury risk is very real with him.

    [/QUOTE]


    Well said and that echoes my thoughts to a T. This was his first injury free season and who knows if he can stay healthy going forward.

    If the Pats can't do something with Amendola's contract, I don't see how they can pay Edelman more than 3.5 - 4 per year (if that's even doable).

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    Pats better hit on WRs in this draft or teams in trouble

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    At 7 a year, I pack his bags and wish him good luck.  I think Billy will make him an offer to play for the Texans.  

    There's an option already on the roster, unproven I get that but a player who can become a 100 catch guy if he gets the system.

    Sam McGuffie, not sure how BB sees McGuffie but he's a versitable player with a chance to take it to the house anytime he touches the ball. 

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to Pats7393's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    At 7 a year, I pack his bags and wish him good luck.  I think Billy will make him an offer to play for the Texans.  

    There's an option already on the roster, unproven I get that but a player who can become a 100 catch guy if he gets the system.

    Sam McGuffie, not sure how BB sees McGuffie but he's a versitable player with a chance to take it to the house anytime he touches the ball. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    For me, I think you can use the name Boyce rather than McGuffie. Boyce has very high ceiling, can the staff get him immersed in this offense?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TFB12's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     One thing for sure is Edelman makes me very nervous as a punt returner, lol!  I will shout at the tv to fair catch a punt and that nerves of steel Edelman will try and make a return.  He is fearless!  Not always a good thing.  I was a punt returner for a season and hated it, even though I was a good receiver I hated punt returns, it's not for everyone, haha!  Now kick returns I loved!!  There is no doubt Edelman brings a lot to the team, the guy has a ton of heart and is willing to play any position, do anything to get on the field and help win.  He is a stud.  I hope the Pats find a way to keep him.

    [/QUOTE]

    I heare ya TFB. One thing for sire.....We find out what kinda GM Bill is. He's gonna have to do his best job ever to figure all of these decision out. Should be fun to watch. 

    [/QUOTE]

    With the salary cap, BB is in a position of "damned if he does and damned if he doesn't". Does ANYONE here want to be in his position?  Who here can judge if any decision BB makes is the right one? 

    BB, no doubt, knows pretty much how he wants to proceed, but, it all depends on the reactions of the player and his agent.   BB will throw out the fairest contract possible and the player can either be acceptable to it or be insulted.  Think - Wes Welker.  It is a chess match the whole time and BB will win some and lose some.  Unfortunately, for some fans here, he has lost more than won.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Edelman... the 7 Million Dollar Man ?? What??


    It may not be popular the Pats need to resist making 2 signings. Julian Edleman as much I like him and McCourty. Edleman well because you already committed to Danny and dont we have enough dead money from cut players?

    McCourty because he IS NOT worth that kind of money. For what they ask of him, they just could plug Harmon in or draft a FS. For 8mill/year you better be a playmaker. McCourty # 1 , isnt asked to be one and when he has the chance he drops him.(3 late season INTs in his hands and dropped)  Only guy that gets paid in the back end is Talib.

     
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