Ellis and the Jets

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    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    Wow, This guy sounds like Seymour, Vinatieri, Ty Law, Lawyer Milloy, ETC...
    I wonder if Rex will get the same bad press that Bellichick gets every time he won't renegotiate a contract. I would also say that the Jets are focused in on Getting Revis inked up long term and have already mortgaged the farm for all of the new guys they brought in. I don't think they'll cut Ellis but he may hold out if he gets mad enough.
     
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    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    i highly doubt they will cut him no matter how long he holds out.  If he was cut they know BB would swoop in and take him in a second.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    Whats the difference,cut or hold out? Either way they won't have his services this coming season,it's why they signed Taylor. They were planning on releasing him,but they will probably wait until they are sure that Taylor is capable of playing for the entire season.
     
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    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    Posts from bjesuss are hidden


    this is a good thing
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from HRK103. Show HRK103's posts

    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    Stop ignoring bjesuss

    Not for all the tea in China
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    In Response to Re: Ellis and the Jets:
    Stop ignoring bjesuss Not for all the tea in China
    Posted by HRK103


    Now if they can only figure a way to hide the post when some one replies we'll be all set.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from paddypatriot83. Show paddypatriot83's posts

    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    In Response to Re: Ellis and the Jets:
    In Response to Re: Ellis and the Jets : So, what don't I get?  Is it that not extending him is good business?   Or maybe that a team thin at DE would cut a 3+ mil salary of a decent player in an uncapped year? And why would that happen?  Maybe to save the hit on next years cap?  Oh wait, his contract is up, I guess that can't be it. Never mind, I just remembered what an idiot you are. And where is it reported that the Jets will not attempt to resign him next year?  It seems that, in your world, any player (not on the patsies) that is in the last year of their contract is not going to be resigned.  Yeah, Pace is pretty bad coming of his best year, leading the team in sacks.  Good job on the Gholston news, only about a month after the fact.  Right on top of things, as usual.  Hey, did you know the Jets cut their top rusher from last year?  Crazy, right?  What were they thinking?  Better check your DE calculation again, you missed some.  I think there may be a nice hybrid LB/DE out there that might be waiting for a specific date.  Rumor has it, his last coach was an idiot, who didn't know how to use him.  And who are the patsies DEs?  Green?  Warren?  Even the Raiders didn't want him. The Jets let a DE go with better numbers than Green or Warren.  It's easy to feel confidant that the team that just led the league in D (using 8 new players), will somehow get the right players on the field once again.
    Posted by bjesuss


    Sorry, but you seem to just be putting your head in the sand - in one respect you are right that the Jets may well try to resign him, but the important element is try.....the Jets are ultimately going to have to face economic difficulties - as they have gone down the free agent / money splashy way of building a team. In basic economic terms, they are going to have to pay significant money to keep this base of players together. Granted, they have drafted some excellent players, but now they are going to have to make difficult decisions and let them go (or give them expensive extensions and thus have less money for the rest of the team / players). The need to adopt a cut-price alternative (and abandon proven players) has already started to appear this off-season and will do further in the future, especially in other areas if large deals are given to Revis, et al. 

    The Patriots have been lucky with a few players (Brady especially) buying into the team over individual regime, thus accepting lower salaries / restructured deals......especially with players looking at past achievements and willing to sacrifice a lower pay for potential of Superbowls. Given the way the Jets have treated proven performers this year, who seemed to be 'team' players, and the reported disquiet of some of the remaining players who have seen this treatment, I don't think the Jets will get 'team player' discounts.....and the Superbowl anticipation is sorely lacking also.......

    The salary cap causes issues around the league and (along with the draft system) makes the proliferation of talent and repeated success in one team (or teams) even the more difficult and unlikely, which is why the Pats performance (as well the Colts I hate to say) over the last decade has been so superb and special. Even still, we have had to deal with significant talent issues with salary cap and free agency (A.Vin, A.Samuel, etc....).

    When the general point is posted that the Jets will have similar issues and difficulties, exacerbated by the salary structure and free agency route taken by your team, I do not see that to be a matter of contention.

    You are right that the Jets had the number 1 defence and also had the number 1 rushing attack last year (in case you didn't know!). One has already been affected (although the numbers don't add up with what you are paying LDT!) by payment concerns, the former is also likely to be affected at some stage shortly.

    Regarding attacks on Pats DE, this is a matter of concern for the team's fans, but we are confident that we will have sufficient personel and will be in contention to an even greater extent this year. I do not think the general post and point was about the superiority or otherwise of the players (V.W - top nose tackle - thank you), but was highlighting the financial issues facing your club. Bury your head in the sand, it is coming, this is why we have flagged (as have several commentators) that your team is really only built for a one/two year run.

    Lastly, for all your posts as to this apparent superiority of the Jets, please look at your number 1 defence and tell me how many divisions, conferences, superbowls did that win for you last year.

    We are the AFC East Champions. We are the last AFC East team to win the Conference. We are the last AFC East team to make the Superbowl. We are the last AFC East team to win the Superbowl. Until otherwise dethroned (which I will be glad to review and come back to this point with you next January / February), please stay in your box.

    p.s. - no smart remarks about the lack of a salary cap this year, if we have football in 2011 season, it will be back.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    •     Paddypatriot83 is absolutely correct in his final statement.There is no way the NFL owners sign any new CBA without a salary cap.it appears obvious that the NFLPA realizes this as their greatest concern with the negotiations that did take place wasn't the concept of the salary cap but rather the significant cut in the percentage of revenues the players would receive.sure they proclaim,and rather loudly,that they will refuse a salary cap,they would be insane to believe the owners will abandon the concept.What they will fight for is the amount of the league's revenue that the players will receive.If a settlement is to be reached for the league to play in 2011,the owners will have to alter significantly their offer to the players in terms of the percentage of revenues the players will receive.I believe there will be a cut in the percentage and/or a rookie salary cap(a concept I am at a loss to explain the NFLPA'S vehement opposition to a rookie cap unless they feel that if the rookies continue to absorb an inordinate percentage of the total cap,especially the top 10-12 picks in the first round,the overall cap will increase,an assumption i see no basis for).By the way,the owners will get television revenue even if they do not play the 2011 season,while the players,save,perhaps,for what would be a relatively paltry lockout fund,would get zilch. 
     
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    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    Just like fall foliage the Jets peak in early autumn.
     
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    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    In Response to Re: Ellis and the Jets:
    In Response to Re: Ellis and the Jets : Yeah, I know, it's pretty confusing when I use your own words to question you.  I even bold faced them for you so that you'd know that I was using your own words. Once again, of course, you don't actually answer anything, you just claim that you have given a bitchslapping.  Was that to one of those 16 year olds you are always drooling over? 
    Posted by bjesuss


    @bj  if you are referring to jarvis green he is on the broncos... 
     
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    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    surely you jest !!  didnt a guy in washington try to build a team like that?? signing hp free agents??? how have they done??

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from paddypatriot83. Show paddypatriot83's posts

    Re: Ellis and the Jets

    In Response to Re: Ellis and the Jets:
    In Response to Re: Ellis and the Jets :

    Where to start?  Here's the thing.  True NFL money information is not easy to track down as playing stats.  And I am certainly not in the know about what is going to happen with the CBA.  However, most agree on a few points.  Although there is no cap in 2010, the amount of money teams spend is still important.  This is one of the reasons why teams have not spent like crazy this off season.  Most of the owners feel that there likely will be some form of a retroactive cap in place and teams over will face some type of penalty.    The Jets, like every other NFL team, usually face tough economic decisions every year.  Who in Patriot land was really that concerned about the patsies ability to sign their crop of FAs this offseason?  This off season the Jets cleared a lot money between Rhodes, Jones, Faneca, & Lito, somewhere around 28 million. Even with the money taken on in LdT (incidentally, pretty much the same contract that Fred Taylor got from the Pats for a RB 3 years younger and much closer to his 1000, 1400 & 1800 yard seasons. Is Fred's contract a bad one too?), Cromatie, & Taylor etc, it's around 15-20 mil in savings. 

    Agree with most of your start, but on the last point, we are talking apples and oranges. You are the one trying to explain to us innocent and deluded fans how the Jets are going to manage all these economic issues, remaining with the leading rushing unit and defence. My general comment is that won't be possible. Not neccessarily that the LdT contract is bad, but that it will prove a reduction in value and performance, as will replacement in Ducasse for Faneca. Point above by Russ is relevant - where is the upside?

    Without rookies contacts the 2010 Jets are about 20 million below 2009s cap number.  Likely, the cap will not be lower than it has been.  Of course, rookies need to be signed, not a big deal considering there are only 4 picks.   The Jets have a lot of FAs next off season.  Harris, Revis, Mangold coming off rookie contracts and then Cromartie & Edwards.  That is clearly a lot of money to pay out, but it's a problem I love to have. An olineman, Dback, and LB that all need top money? Nice job MikeT.  I like that they are all fairly young players.  The Jets are currently working on the expiring rookie contracts. I suspect that they will get at least two if not all three done this year using this years 'cap room' or lack of cap to take some of the sting of those big deals. 

    Again, don't doubt that it is a nice problem to have and the first 3 players are worthwhile paying......however, money, money, money.....the Sanchize is very expensive and other players will look round at the cash and there will not be enough to pay all of them. Your theory that you can take the 'sting' out this year could prove ineffective, as discussions around the salary cap 2011 on has been predicated that big bonuses, etc paid in 2010 would count towards it in some manner - to avoid Snyder and others (errr Woody) loading up and taking the mickey this year. If it was this simple, do you not think Kraft would have backed up the money truck and dumped it on Brady's lawn by now???

    Edwards & Cromartie will only get paid of they play well this year.  I don't know the specifics of NE's salary information and don't care enough to try to find it, but the upcoming FAs are Tom Brady, Maroney, Faulk, Moss, Holt.   I would think that Moss, Holt, Light, & maybe Faulk will be gone.  That's a pretty good hit to the offense. 

    Light is ok. Proven and more athletic replacement already there in place (not untested rookie). WR / RB may well be an issue to update. I don't doubt the Pats have to manage their roster and finances as well, but we have proven that we can win things with a cast of nobodys (or as near as), thus whilst we might look to take a top notch receiver and RB early in next year's draft (you know with our two no.1 picks), even if we don't, our plug in and play ability can and does also work.

    Maroney will want big money claiming that he almost gained 1000 yards  in 2007.

    LMAO. Huge LMAO.

    Tom Brady, enough said.  But I'll add this, he's not taking a pay cut to be 3000 miles away from his family.  He'll get top 5 money.. 15 -20 mil a year?  Tough decsions.  Regarding this accusation of going the free agency route.  Sure the Jets have signed some good players they didn't draft.  Surely you are not suggesting that the Patriots have done something different. 

    Absolutely not. But to keep all FA and resign your expensive talent is not possible. Everyone uses the FA system, but the last while, you have relinquished the possibility for cheap rookie contracts by sacrificing draft picks. This will ultimately come back to haunt. Look, our differences may be a matter of personal preference. You have suffered so much with so little success that a quick run with the hope of a SB run in the next two years is more important than long-term strategy and the intention of putting out a competitive and top-10 team (at worst) year on year.

    Leigh Bodden, Fred Taylor, Junior (resigned), Tully, Chris Baker, Shawn Springs, Burgess, Ty Warren all just last year.  Then off course there's AD, Lamont Jordan, Stallworth,Washington.... the list goes on and on.  Take just a few of those contacts, AD, Bodden, & Tully amounted to about 75 million. That is some FA spending.  The Jets have used FAs signings to be core players, supplement drafted core players, bridge gaps, and provide depth.   You cannot build a team just through the draft or just through FAs. The Jets have a solid mix.  

    To address some specific comments: V.W - top nose tackle - thank you VW may very well be the best NT. Unfortunately, he chose to show that by having worse numbers than a backup NT for the Jets, starting for the first time in his career all in VWs contract year.  Strange way to demonstrate being the best.  

    Please be joking. Please. I'm not even going there on this one. This is green tinted glasses, through green-tinted contact lenses, after far too many green pints of Guinness.

    as they have gone down the free agent / money splashy way of building a team   Let me get this right.  Signing FAs who contribute to the team, Faneca, Pace, Jenkins, Farve (very good numbers until he tore his bicep), & Tony Richardson etc is flashy, but a bunch of FAs getting paid well but not producing is something not flashy - Chris Baker, AD, junior, Springs etc.  That is just a bit hyprocritical.

    Key word was the one in the middle. Team. Whatever the failures of the Pats use of FA from time to time (and I note that Pats successes / Jets failures are conveniently left out), what occured during AD / Seau period of FA - 18-1 / Conference Championship / two division titles / SB appearance / winning seasons each year. Again, our system has a proven success record, the Jets have not demonstrated the same with their approach. Therefore, I do not see that criticising your approach and questioning the long term benefits / possible success is at all hypocritical. 

    By the way, the Jets best moves have been trades. TJ for a swap of 2nd round picks with the Bears, Braylon, Cromartie, Holmes all trades not FAs.... not that it even matters, just clarifiing your slightly off target claims. 

    I apologise for my lack of clarity. As a paragon of accuracy, I am sure that troubled you immensely. Players acquired via trade also require contracts (and often expensive extensions) - particularly (as you so feverently desire) they perform successfully - Braylon / Cromartie / Holmes (when he gets on the field) - there will be questions over that last part.

    Lastly, most new coaches tend to bring in players they feel more comfortable with or those that know their system.  I'll just assume that I don't need to recap BBs wholesale changes in 2000 & 2001. 

    If Rex Ryan achieves the same result, I will duly doff my cap. Needless to say, I do not believe such a result is likely. Besides, the money train (coming in for final stop) started before Mr. Ryan started phoning around.....

    a cut-price alternative (and abandon proven players) has already started to appear this off-season-/the way the Jets have treated proven performers this year, who seemed to be 'team' players, and the reported disquiet of some of the remaining players   Who? Faneca?, Jones?  Both were great for what they were.  You don't pay players for what they did. you pay them for what they will do.  Neither were huge cost savings in and of themselves, but both were old and solid replacements were already in place with Greene and Slausen.

    Agreed that you pay for what they will do. But stop deluding yourself, there will be a drop off on what Jones / Faneca brought, to that of Greene / Slausen (Ducasse). That's the point. This will continue.

    The other option is to try to get every last drop out of players.  Seems that this often leads to old and slow (see Pats LBs 2008). 

    Come on. 11-5 record led by a second string QB and the LB's were 'old and slow'. They performed more than well enough that year. Please, even bring in some statistical evidence, or something. That is like me saying that the Jets QB last year was one of the worst performers in his position last year, with a god-awful TD/Int ratio......oh wait, that one is true.....

    How unhappy do you think Mangold will be when he gets some of Faneca's cash?  

    This unlimited cash? Very. How much do you think he will believe (and be happy with) the Jets team when they display any prevarication or delay in negotiating or showing him the money (thanks Cuba Gooding Jr).....Hmmm...interesting...... 

    your team is really only built for a one/two year run.    Maybe, but the real core of this team, assuming next years FAs are resigned are young.  Greene, Sanchez, Keller, Revis, Mangold, Brick, Harris are a strong foundation.  This is without considering this years rookies.  

    Please note 'assuming'. Please note those core players whose rookie contracts are coming up for extension / replacement. Please refer to aforementioned unlimited cash. Just please.

    many divisions, conferences, superbowls did that win for you last year. We are the AFC East Champions. We are the last AFC East team to win the Conference. We are the last AFC East team to make the Superbowl. We are the last AFC East team to win the Superbowl Ah yes, I hear this argument all the time from Yankee fans.  Don't care the Yankees won it last year, don't care that they have 27 WS rings, don't care they they win the division most years.  Do you?  That's what I thought.  Mostly, I don't care a thing about the Patriots past success.  They are nowhere near the team they were. 

    ....and the Jets are nowhere near the team, now (and soon to be dismantled / priced out) which you seem to believe they are. The general point is been there, done that and the team knows they can do it again. Until you have, until in some way the Jets win something and demonstrate a definite ability to be superior to the Pats, I'm afraid I cannot accept that your misguided beliefs are supportable.........and should (big should) the Jets surprise me and succeed next year, with a heavy heart I will congratulate them, congratulate the players and coaching team who will have worked bloody hard to get there (I won't be happy for them - don't push it) and will relish the feeling (rather unknown since 2001) of being the underdog with something to prove again.......but most importantly, I will not be trolling on NYJ sites seeking maliciously to annoy Jets fans......I have a life and better things to be doing.

    Posted by bjesuss

     
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