ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    I mentioned the article was top free agents 'with the most to prove' the rest of this seaosn... not a talent list or money list




    Well hell, then Welker should be at the Bottom.  I think he has proved all he needs to prove.  100 receptions 5x, ahead of Jerry Rice!!  Mother F'ing WOW!!

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    Random thoughts :

    Goldson is going to want big bucks

    ( He turned down multi-year offers from multiple teams and instead went back to SF on a one year contract in order to show his stuff ... which everyone now agrees is top shelf. )

     

    Chung is a dead man walking ( Pats -wise )

    I think BB thinks he's plateaued  , next year Chung will have to play for near vet min. to even have a chance to make the team.

     

    Vollmer's value is immense . ( when healthy... obviously )

    It's ez to forget the stellar job he did at LT his rookie year when Light went down .

    Hard to put a price tag on a guy that can play both ends of the line at a high level .

    Tag and See = likely the way to go .

    ( Though his versatility might make him worthy of risking a longer contract )

    Vollmer might just be inclined to stay fairly cheap do to his Injury history coupled with the fact he's been earning only late 2nd round money in his short career .

    A nice signing Bonus and an upgrade to a few million per season might just entice him to stay

    Welker brings enough intangibles to the table that even though I'd like to be able to say "We Don't Need Him " ... my gut tells me that a Patriots team w/o him would be a lesser team.

    We need to find a way to pay him.

     Welker is Brady's security blanket ( many think it's to a fault ) but I believe it goes deeper than just being a reliable target . I believe Welker is Brady's in-game sounding board . Watch any Pats game and you 'll invariably see them sitting next to each other  , either strategically talking or just shootin' the Sh*t.

    That kind of calming influence is priceless .

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8746362/nfl-top-25-free-agents-most-market-value-line-headed-season-final-stretch

    #5 - Welker

    #7 - Talib

    #10 - Vollmer

    5-6 more games like the last 3 and the Pats MUST keep Talib. If Welker is allowed to walk it better be b/c he got 8+ million per for 4+ years and we have a backup plan like Amendola at half the $ and not just banking on Edelman.

    Can we trust Vollmer to be healthy like he was this season for 3-4 more or will it be '11 again? Basically last year was a washout where he was healthy for like 6 games and finally showed up again for the super bowl and was terrible.



    rame where you been, ive missed our thoughtfull and intelligent conversations about patriot football.

    i have been posing the same questions with others on the draft thread about bb deciding if vollmers back will hinder his play and games palyed through his career or not.

    before talib arrived in n.e., i hoped we go to man wiht dennard and talib and get more agressive with the de. to my pleasant astonishment, we have doen so and the de looks in rare form and i believe, with health, could also improve. after talibs 1st game, i hoped and would have attempted to extend talib while he was happy to jsut be in the laegue still, never mind with a supe rbowl team. i said then if we let him show how good and valuable he can be, he might get self confident and feel he should go make top money wherever the top $ is.

    re welker started a couple threads the past couple weeks. did you see last week, bb having a lot of leverage to get welker to come down in his demands (hall of fame if he stays and continues same for another 3 years, yearly sb contention,. staying with his buddy and on the field connector brady, not having to start to create somenting all over again, etc.). id liek to offer him 5 years 2 guaranteed (keep him as long as he stays in top form) around 6 or up to 7 per.

    talib may be the most important of the 3 (least replaceable) though i want a behavior based adn gaems played based contract 4 years, team option for 5.

    though if we wave bye to vollmer i wonder if we get long for right tackle.

    and woudl have to replace welker if he left. 




    Hey Bred, awesome stuff, I've been busy as always, can't believe it took me this long to get back to my thread.

    Anyhow, tough loss Sunday night but it didn't make me too worried overall, ball protection is obv. a big issue, Brady hopefully won't throw picks when Gronk spreads things out and the stake's are higher in the playoffs.

    I'm right there with you on our FA's. Welker should be given 5 years at 30-35 million with like 15 in signing bonus $. Other than the 1 freak knee injury he has been very durable. A guy like Stokley is still bringing it at age 36-37, Welker has 2 more years of catching 85-105 in him for sure, maybe it is our system but traditionally that is worth 7m+ for sure. After that he could re-work his deal if needed but he will at least be a guy catching you 3-4 a game, getting you a clutch 1st down, etc. Like Branch was last year. They gotta keep him.

    Talib had a rough game vs. the 49ers but has been a much needed addition overall. I think it will be a case of the Pats having such a big need and him being grateful for the opportunity and playing for a winner that wanted him that they will come together on something rather quickly.

    If the Pats don't sign Vollmer I hope it is b/c they have the inside scoop on his injuries and its just too risky. In that case a guy like Long or Clady taking over at LT and letting the cheaper Solder play RT and also slide to TE/6th lineman duty for some insane blocking scheme's would be pretty awesome.



    love the thoughts man.

    so often seems like we're sharin a brain.

    "If the Pats don't sign Vollmer I hope it is b/c they have the inside scoop on his injuries and its just too risky."

    exactly.

    ps you gotta get on here a little more regularly. you really bring it and have a brain and some creativity i can appreciate highly.

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    Byrd - 6/36

    Levitre  - 5/30

    Bennett - 5/25

    Would be an awesome free agency, after keeping Welker (5/30), Talib (5/25) and Vollmer (franchise or like 2/15, prove he can stay healthy).

    Then draft a DT, WR and CB or speedy 4-3 LB'er



    u seeing the huge need for the speedy lb as well.. its brutal.

    how many sacks does bennett have this year?

    and who is going to pick the cb. bb is like 0 for last  7

    almost the same picture at wr.

    he cant pick a wr or def back (and its cost the team), thats why i advocate free againts for the  defensive backfield.

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    What about signing a deep threat like Wallace?

    Hartline seems like the type of upside low cost WR this team would take a stab at



    we need a separating wr, but wallace wants the world last i heard, granted this offesne would be insane

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to bobbysu's comment:

    I would love to bring Goldson here, a Safety with an attitude. Something we needed here for a long time.




    The inability to sign him last offseason was a real shame and an absolute backbreaking decision that killed us all season. We had him in for a visit and the $ to spend after cutting Merri and Sanders, so not getting him locked into a deal was a brutal blow.

    He really showed me Sunday that he provides intimidation and is always aggressive and around the ball. Byrd might make a few more picks and be a bit more fundamentally sound... but Goldson is certainly 1B when it comes to  which safety to sign. As long as we don't have a glaring hole at tackle I would put adding a safety next to McCourty as the #1 priority in free agency.

    Go get him!



    "The inability to sign him last offseason was a real shame and an absolute backbreaking decision that killed us all season. "

    absolutley have felt the same. would have been a different season. esp now with talib.

    #1 free agent need yes.

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    Reed is probably going to retire a Raven, but as far as angering a fan base and rival and adding a veteran winner I'd like the move.

    Reed splitting time at SS with Chung, who we try to get something out of, would be ok at around the same cost as signing one elite guy like Byrd or Goldson.



    i'll take the youth and teh guys who can play / can still play the position 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to CaptnFoxboro's comment:

    Random thoughts :

    Goldson is going to want big bucks

    ( He turned down multi-year offers from multiple teams and instead went back to SF on a one year contract in order to show his stuff ... which everyone now agrees is top shelf. )

     

    Chung is a dead man walking ( Pats -wise )

    I think BB thinks he's plateaued  , next year Chung will have to play for near vet min. to even have a chance to make the team.

     

    Vollmer's value is immense . ( when healthy... obviously )

    It's ez to forget the stellar job he did at LT his rookie year when Light went down .

    Hard to put a price tag on a guy that can play both ends of the line at a high level .

    Tag and See = likely the way to go .

    ( Though his versatility might make him worthy of risking a longer contract )

    Vollmer might just be inclined to stay fairly cheap do to his Injury history coupled with the fact he's been earning only late 2nd round money in his short career .

    A nice signing Bonus and an upgrade to a few million per season might just entice him to stay

    Welker brings enough intangibles to the table that even though I'd like to be able to say "We Don't Need Him " ... my gut tells me that a Patriots team w/o him would be a lesser team.

    We need to find a way to pay him.

     Welker is Brady's security blanket ( many think it's to a fault ) but I believe it goes deeper than just being a reliable target . I believe Welker is Brady's in-game sounding board . Watch any Pats game and you 'll invariably see them sitting next to each other  , either strategically talking or just shootin' the Sh*t.

    That kind of calming influence is priceless .



    +1 on all. if vollmers back doesnt look like its going to stop him from playing healthy in years to come

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    good thrread rame!

    i started at thread fro offseason moves, fa dn draft (as opposed to your parameters above).

    would love to hears your comments there from now till draft.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from looneyman. Show looneyman's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to bobbysu's comment:

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    What about signing a deep threat like Wallace?

    Hartline seems like the type of upside low cost WR this team would take a stab at



    we need a separating wr, but wallace wants the world last i heard, granted this offesne would be insane




    Would you trade two #1 picks for Fitz?




    NO

     




    Agree, You should use Free Agency as a Need, not a luxury.



    I would trade our #1 this year , our 2 bd round pick this year,

    Vereen, Lyold for Fitz and their 2nd this year.

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    Fitz is better than Jennings and Wallace and can restructure his deal once he gets here like Moss did, he wants to be on a winner bad.



    Look I love Fitz and think he would be a great fit here, but how can they possibly restructure his deal to make it reasonable.  His projected cap next year is pretty low at a bit under 10 million, but the following 4 years it's somewhere between 17 and 20.  I am not a cap guru, but it seems to me it would take a lot to get that number down.

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    If we're gonna throw big bucks around I'd aim a wad at Clady. Then I'd unload the injury-prone Vollmer and move Solder back to RT. If we can't keep Welker, I'd look at cheaper alternatives like Hartline or Amendola. Gotta bring in a safety as well. Anyone would seem to be better than Gregory and Chung.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    What about signing a deep threat like Wallace?

    Hartline seems like the type of upside low cost WR this team would take a stab at



    we need a separating wr, but wallace wants the world last i heard, granted this offesne would be insane




    Would you trade two #1 picks for Fitz?

    rame,

    too many needs (wr not at the top) to trade 2 firsts (now if 1 would do it, id consider)

    i would trade my 2013 first for teh team i would guess to be the worst record at teh end of 2013 for their 2014 pick (a shot at manziel or the best qb coming out in 2014). hes bradys backup till brady isnt brady.

    outside of that id make my other 2013 picks available to move up to get the absolute studs i have to  have at dt (wilfork 2.0), at de (chandler jones but better), and or c/g (barrettt, cooper) as opposed to dropping down for more picks so we can have 8 more yo0ung jags. the team is young enough. needs some experience. only thing missing is a few dominat players at these positions along wiht free agency help at safety, maybe corner, speedy lb and a ltae round or udfa big wr who can sepaarate and has hands (but not necearily route running)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to bredbru's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    Reed is probably going to retire a Raven, but as far as angering a fan base and rival and adding a veteran winner I'd like the move.

    Reed splitting time at SS with Chung, who we try to get something out of, would be ok at around the same cost as signing one elite guy like Byrd or Goldson.



    i'll take the youth and teh guys who can play / can still play the position 




    So you would be down with a Chung/Reed duo at SS next season?



    neither. chung forget it. reed too declining.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    Fitz is better than Jennings and Wallace and can restructure his deal once he gets here like Moss did, he wants to be on a winner bad.



    Look I love Fitz and think he would be a great fit here, but how can they possibly restructure his deal to make it reasonable.  His projected cap next year is pretty low at a bit under 10 million, but the following 4 years it's somewhere between 17 and 20.  I am not a cap guru, but it seems to me it would take a lot to get that number down.



    no dice.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to trouts' comment:

    If we're gonna throw big bucks around I'd aim a wad at Clady. Then I'd unload the injury-prone Vollmer and move Solder back to RT. If we can't keep Welker, I'd look at cheaper alternatives like Hartline or Amendola. Gotta bring in a safety as well. Anyone would seem to be better than Gregory and Chung.



    not a bad plan

     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    Try to sign Talib, and Welker. Jake Long might be worth an offer sheet.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     




    Would you trade two #1 picks for Fitz?

    rame,

    too many needs (wr not at the top) to trade 2 firsts (now if 1 would do it, id consider)

    i would trade my 2013 first for teh team i would guess to be the worst record at teh end of 2013 for their 2014 pick (a shot at manziel or the best qb coming out in 2014). hes bradys backup till brady isnt brady.

    outside of that id make my other 2013 picks available to move up to get the absolute studs i have to  have at dt (wilfork 2.0), at de (chandler jones but better), and or c/g (barrettt, cooper) as opposed to dropping down for more picks so we can have 8 more yo0ung jags. the team is young enough. needs some experience. only thing missing is a few dominat players at these positions along wiht free agency help at safety, maybe corner, speedy lb and a ltae round or udfa big wr who can sepaarate and has hands (but not necearily route running)




Its obv a long shot, but you are correct two #1's is too much. Now a 2nd this year and 1st next year would be a tough call. All contracts are able to be favorably reconstructed in the NFL, the fact that fitz likely has about 35-40 million guaranteed on his makes me feel we could work something out.

As for trading around in the draft this year, it is very unlikely a pick in the 27-31 range will net us a '14 pick in the top 10. Only time that ever happened was with Mayo... all other times BB traded a pick in the 20's for one in the 20's the following season. With only picks in first 3 rd's and then two 7th rd picks I don't see us having the ammo to move up like we did for Jones/Hightower unless its with 2014 picks.



rame, #1 no team right now is going to predict they willbe a league worst team in 2 years (so they wont see it coming).

 

2nd about trading up this year, if we do (which i doubt) we can use 2014 picks, ie move up to land jordan or ansah (de pass rushers), or big dream-hankins dt, or dt jenkins o or willimams in rd 1.

de hunt or nt jessie willimas in rd 2

frederick c/g in rd 3

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to trouts' comment:

    If we're gonna throw big bucks around I'd aim a wad at Clady. Then I'd unload the injury-prone Vollmer and move Solder back to RT. If we can't keep Welker, I'd look at cheaper alternatives like Hartline or Amendola. Gotta bring in a safety as well. Anyone would seem to be better than Gregory and Chung.




    My feelings exactly... I have been saying the same thing all season, only about Jake Long tho and not Clady. With Long being injured and Martin playing so well for Miami he will be cheaper/ Clady has never missed a game and is protecting old man Manning... he will either stay in Denver or require a BOATLOAD of cash.

    Safety is a big priority... how incredible would it be to see us get Byrd or Goldson?

    I'd take a shot at stealing him from Gomer. Even if you don't pry him away you make the Broncos pay through the nose to keep him in Denver. We've signed a number of guys who have injury histories and I'm weary about that.


     
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    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    Since we will have Ballard next year would you consider trading Hernandez.

    If so who would you give up picks with him for. Fitzgerald,Austin, Jared Allen,  or Roddy White.

    I am not saying all or any are available but players who are untouchable get traded.

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: ESPN top 25 free agency rankings, 3 Pats in top 10

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     




    Its obv a long shot, but you are correct two #1's is too much. Now a 2nd this year and 1st next year would be a tough call. All contracts are able to be favorably reconstructed in the NFL, the fact that fitz likely has about 35-40 million guaranteed on his makes me feel we could work something out.

    As for trading around in the draft this year, it is very unlikely a pick in the 27-31 range will net us a '14 pick in the top 10. Only time that ever happened was with Mayo... all other times BB traded a pick in the 20's for one in the 20's the following season. With only picks in first 3 rd's and then two 7th rd picks I don't see us having the ammo to move up like we did for Jones/Hightower unless its with 2014 picks.



    rame, #1 no team right now is going to predict they willbe a league worst team in 2 years (so they wont see it coming).

     

    2nd about trading up this year, if we do (which i doubt) we can use 2014 picks, ie move up to land jordan or ansah (de pass rushers), or big dream-hankins dt, or dt jenkins o or willimams in rd 1.

    de hunt or nt jessie willimas in rd 2

    frederick c/g in rd 3




  • I'm def with you on trading 2014 picks to move up this year for instant impact players if we can... I have felt this way for years as Brady has a small window... I hope BB just felt that window extended longer than most of us did and will hopefully now be making more moves like he did for Jones/Hightower and less moves like he did '09-'11 when I feel he blew some good opportunities.

    and of course no team really 'expects' to be terrible the next season... but you can bet there are a dozen teams who wouldn't in their right minds trade a '14 #1 pick for the Pats pick this year in the 27-31 range. knowing it likely is a top 15 pick.

    Like I said the only time we got lucky was with the Mayo pick in '08 b/c the 49ers felt they were almost in the playoffs and ended up with the 8th pick a year later. Maybe find an NFC team like the Vikings, Cowboys, Bucs, Eagles, Lions or Bears who all consider themselves ready to improve and either get into or get deeper into the playoffs next year and end up being worse. I could see any of those teams being in the 7-14 range in a year.



    "


    I'm def with you on trading 2014 picks to move up this year for instant impact players if we can... I have felt this way for years as Brady has a small window."

    rame,

     thats been my feeling for 2 or 3 years and posted that since ive been on the board. dont recall anyone agreeing at the time. lots of disagreement though. seems plain to most by now id guess, wasting brady years we could have won the super bowl just to make sure we are in best position several years down the line (where we are in the saem position today; small chance to make the sb with what we have, smaller chance to win it) vs 2-3 game changers that put us over the top.

     
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