Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play
posted at 11/18/2013 7:04 AM EST
In response to coolade2's comment:
In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:
Aaargh. I'm posting the NCAA rules, because they are clearer, but I think they NFL rules are interpreted identically. See the pink sections.
The issue is whether Smith was airborne or not when he went out of bounds. Personally, I think he was stretching rather than launching, but I guess you could argue otherwise.
If he was stretching, the refs were right.
SECTION 2. Out of Bounds Player Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 1. a. A player is out of bounds when any part of his person touches anything, other than another player or game official, on or outside a boundary line (A.R. 4-2-1-I and II).
b. A player who touches a pylon is out of bounds.
Held Ball Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 2. A ball in player possession is out of bounds when either the ball or any part of the ball carrier touches the ground or anything else that is on or outside a boundary line except another player or game official.
Ball Out of Bounds
ARTICLE 3. a. A ball not in player possession, other than a kick that scores a field goal, is out of bounds when it touches the ground, a player, a game official or anything else that is on or outside a boundary line.
b. A ball that touches a pylon is out of bounds behind the goal line.
c. If a live ball not in player possession crosses a boundary line and then is declared out of bounds, it is out of bounds at the crossing point.
Out of Bounds at Forward Point
ARTICLE 4. a. If a live ball is declared out of bounds and the ball does not cross a boundary line, it is out of bounds at the ball’s most forward point when it was declared dead (A.R. 4-2-4-I) (Exception: Rule 8-5-1-a, A.R. 8-5-1-I).
A touchdown is scored if the ball is inbounds and has broken the plane of the goal line (Rule 2-12-2) before or simultaneous to the ball carrier going out of bounds.
A receiver who is in the opponent’s end zone and contacting the ground is credited with a completion if he reaches over the sideline or end line and catches a legal pass.
The most forward point of the ball when declared out of bounds between the goal lines is the point of forward progress (A.R. 8-2-1-I and A.R. 8-5-1- VII) (Exception: When a ball carrier is airborne as he crosses the sideline, forward progress is determined by the position of the ball as it crosses the sideline (A.R. 8-2-1-II-III and V-IX).
Jesooooos h chriiiist... You are confusing OUT OF BOUNDS with SPOTTING OF THE BALLL.
WE alf'n know jeno landed out of bounds causing the dead ball .. STOP posting crap about what is out of bounds . It is ignorant of wht this thread and 6 pages of analysis is about... It is the spot of the f'n ball as in the OP:
" EXplain the forward progress ruling( ball spot) on this play." EXPLAIN THE SPOT using the rule book. ( not your seat of the pants interpretation....) and also use common sense.
RULE BOOK: "Ordinarily , the spot is where the ball crosses the sidelines..." What is wrong with that sentence that has grown people talking about players lunging or leaping or diving out of bounds to gain forward progress....????
Its in plain f'n English and I'm going to bed...g'night but the bludgeoning will continue tomorrow AM I'm sure since some of you people are thick headed....
Again, from the NCAA rulebook, because it's clearer than the NFL's:
ARTICLE 2. Forward progress is a term indicating the end of advancement by the ball carrier or airborne pass receiver of either team and applies to the position of the ball when it became dead by rule (Rules 4-1-3-a, b and p; Rules 4-2-1 and 4; and Rule 5-1-3-a Exception) (A.R. 5-1-3-I-VI and A.R. 8-2-1-I-IX) (Exception: Rule 8-5-1-a, A.R. 8-5-1-I).
Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead:
When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after touching the uprights or crossbar, when a ball carrier is out of bounds, or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped. When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
ARTICLE 4. The dead-ball spot is the point at which the ball became dead.
ARTICLE 6. The out-of-bounds spot is the point at which, according to the rule, the ball becomes dead because of going or being declared out of bounds.
ARTICLE 7. The inbounds spot is the intersection of the nearer hash mark line and the yard line passing through either the dead-ball spot or the spot where a penalty leaves the ball in a side zone.
This is the way officials spot the ball in both college and the NFL and it's the way the officials spotted the ball on the Geno Smith play. The paragraph you keep referencing in the NFL rule book is what they follow when a ball (not in possession) goes out of bounds. But when the runner goes out of bounds (with the ball in his possession), they spot the ball based on the position of the ball at the moment the ball goes dead, which is when the runner officially becomes out of bounds. The one exception, which is clearly specified in the college rulebook, but not in the NFL rulebook (except oddly, in the section on TDs), is when an airborne player goes out of bounds--that's when they spot the ball where it crossed the sideline; this rule is designed to prevent the leaping out of bounds you were worried about.
Finally, I'm going to post this example from the 2013 NFL rulebook. Note the last sentence--this is the most succinct statement of how referees spot the ball when a runner goes out of bounds.
Runner A1 touches the defensive team’s pylon with any part of his body.
Ruling: Not out of bounds. The runner is not out of bounds until he touches anything other than a player, an official, or a pylon on or outside the boundary line. Position of the ball is determined by its position when the runner touches out of bounds.