Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

     http://www.boston.com/sports/blogs/goingdeep/2013/11/patriots_panthers_read_option.html

     

     

    The article is about QB running but scroll down to the video of Geno Smith running for a first down against the Patriots...  He is like a yard or 2 short then as he is falling down he extends ball forwrd out of bounds...  How does this get him a first down....?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    Game was played in New Jersey/New York.  'nuff said!

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    I remember that play.   I think a lot of us believe the refs got that wrong.  There are still too many errors made in today's NFL.  It's better than it was years ago, but still unacceptable.

    Here's what the NFL RuleBook says on the Smith play:

    ************************************************************************

    Rule 3 Section 22: Out of Bounds and Inbounds Spot

    INBOUNDS SPOT Article 3 The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines. Under certain conditions, the ball is dead in a side zone or has been placed there as the result of a penalty. See 7-6-2. Note: Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline. However, if a ball, while still within a boundary line, is declared out of bounds because of touching anything that is out of bounds, the out-of-bounds spot is on the yard line through the spot of the ball at the instant of such touching.   ***************************************************************************************************************** I highlighted the relevant section.   No exceptions applied to this play.  It should have been marked short of the first down.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I remember that play.   I think a lot of us believe the refs got that wrong.  There are still too many errors made in today's NFL.  It's better than it was years ago, but still unacceptable.

    Here's what the NFL RuleBook says on the Smith play:

    ************************************************************************

    Rule 3 Section 22: Out of Bounds and Inbounds Spot

    INBOUNDS SPOT Article 3 The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines. Under certain conditions, the ball is dead in a side zone or has been placed there as the result of a penalty. See 7-6-2. Note: Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline. However, if a ball, while still within a boundary line, is declared out of bounds because of touching anything that is out of bounds, the out-of-bounds spot is on the yard line through the spot of the ball at the instant of such touching.   ***************************************************************************************************************** I highlighted the relevant section.   No exceptions applied to this play.  It should have been marked short of the first down.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Wow...  whoever wrote that has no grasp of the english language...  comical.   thanks for posting...

    the relevant part which applies here ,  is the ball crossing the sideline Plane which extends up from the sideline.  Not where the ball touches the ground , out of bounds as it appears it was called.

    Unanimous...  Refs screwed it up ,  wow the fix was in after all.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I remember that play.   I think a lot of us believe the refs got that wrong.  There are still too many errors made in today's NFL.  It's better than it was years ago, but still unacceptable.

    Here's what the NFL RuleBook says on the Smith play:

    ************************************************************************

    Rule 3 Section 22: Out of Bounds and Inbounds Spot

    INBOUNDS SPOT Article 3 The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines. Under certain conditions, the ball is dead in a side zone or has been placed there as the result of a penalty. See 7-6-2. Note: Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline. However, if a ball, while still within a boundary line, is declared out of bounds because of touching anything that is out of bounds, the out-of-bounds spot is on the yard line through the spot of the ball at the instant of such touching.   ***************************************************************************************************************** I highlighted the relevant section.   No exceptions applied to this play.  It should have been marked short of the first down.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have that right. I believe the ball gets spotted where it touches something that is out of bounds. That could be the ground, a player, a down marker or anything that is already out of bounds. The rule you cited here explains where the ball is placed after the play is over. Case in point, someone can run the entire length of the field with the ball held over the sideline and as long as they pull the ball back over the field of play when they cross the goal line, it is a touchdown. Also all the receivers making those highlight reel catches by leaning out of bounds with both feet still in bounds would be declared incomplete.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    It's hard to tell but it looks like Geno is in bounds and was never down until the ball touched the ground out of bounds. It may have been the correct call.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    Yeah, I remember saying what Bullchit it was on the game thread.  Ultimately it falls on BBs booth people to call down to him to challenge the spot.  Seems like those guys up there have missed a lot calls this year

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's hard to tell but it looks like Geno is in bounds and was never down until the ball touched the ground out of bounds. It may have been the correct call.

    [/QUOTE]

    Now that I see the play, it was ruled correctly.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    Based on the angle it looks as though the ball should be spotted between the 11 & 10. that's the plane it looks like the ball crossed.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I remember that play.   I think a lot of us believe the refs got that wrong.  There are still too many errors made in today's NFL.  It's better than it was years ago, but still unacceptable.

    Here's what the NFL RuleBook says on the Smith play:

    ************************************************************************

    Rule 3 Section 22: Out of Bounds and Inbounds Spot

    INBOUNDS SPOT Article 3 The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines. Under certain conditions, the ball is dead in a side zone or has been placed there as the result of a penalty. See 7-6-2. Note: Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline. However, if a ball, while still within a boundary line, is declared out of bounds because of touching anything that is out of bounds, the out-of-bounds spot is on the yard line through the spot of the ball at the instant of such touching.   ***************************************************************************************************************** I highlighted the relevant section.   No exceptions applied to this play.  It should have been marked short of the first down.

     



    I don't think you have that right. I believe the ball gets spotted where it touches something that is out of bounds. That could be the ground, a player, a down marker or anything that is already out of bounds. The rule you cited here explains where the ball is placed after the play is over. Case in point, someone can run the entire length of the field with the ball held over the sideline and as long as they pull the ball back over the field of play when they cross the goal line, it is a touchdown. Also all the receivers making those highlight reel catches by leaning out of bounds with both feet still in bounds would be declared incomplete.

    [/QUOTE]


    OK now I'm confused.... again

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    So why on a Touchdown do you need to hit the PYLON...????????  (with the ball)

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play


    The guys is already floating out of bounds as he streaches an out of bounce ball towards the 1st down line.

    This can be clearly picked up by a good eye on this horrible camera angle view. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Based on the angle it looks as though the ball should be spotted between the 11 & 10. that's the plane it looks like the ball crossed.

    There is no plane on the sideline, only on the goal line.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    [QUOTE]Based on the angle it looks as though the ball should be spotted between the 11 & 10. that's the plane it looks like the ball crossed.
    [/QUOTE]
    There is no plane on the sideline, only on the goal line.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Plane was a bad choice of words. once your body goes/touches out of bounds the ball is spotted at the point where the ball crosses the sideline.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I don't think you have that right. I believe the ball gets spotted where it touches something that is out of bounds. That could be the ground, a player, a down marker or anything that is already out of bounds. The rule you cited here explains where the ball is placed after the play is over. Case in point, someone can run the entire length of the field with the ball held over the sideline and as long as they pull the ball back over the field of play when they cross the goal line, it is a touchdown. Also all the receivers making those highlight reel catches by leaning out of bounds with both feet still in bounds would be declared incomplete.

    [/QUOTE]


    Yeah, I agree with your examples.  Very good.  I still don't see the support of what you are saying in the Rule Book though.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    [QUOTE]Based on the angle it looks as though the ball should be spotted between the 11 & 10. that's the plane it looks like the ball crossed.
    [/QUOTE]
    There is no plane on the sideline, only on the goal line.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Plane was a bad choice of words. once your body goes/touches out of bounds the ball is spotted at the point where the ball crosses the sideline.

    [/QUOTE]


    um...  so Geno touches out of bounds with the ball  3 feet OB  .  spot goes back to where ball crossed sideline?

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]Based on the angle it looks as though the ball should be spotted between the 11 & 10. that's the plane it looks like the ball crossed.
    [/QUOTE]
    There is no plane on the sideline, only on the goal line.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The ball is spotted where the player went out of bounds. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    [QUOTE]Based on the angle it looks as though the ball should be spotted between the 11 & 10. that's the plane it looks like the ball crossed.
    [/QUOTE]
    There is no plane on the sideline, only on the goal line.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    How can that be when you are playing the Jets?  Sorry, bad attempt at humor.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    Plane was a bad choice of words. once your body goes/touches out of bounds the ball is spotted at the point where the ball crosses the sideline.

    It's confusing but I'm not sure that's correct. The first thing to touch out of bounds on the Geno play was the ball. The ball was placed where it touched the ground, not where it crossed the plane.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So why on a Touchdown do you need to hit the PYLON...????????  (with the ball)

    [/QUOTE]


    So you can get forward progress by flying out of bounds 5 yards as long as you don't touch the ground .  Why don't you see more players leaping ( and avoiding contact) out of bounds....../???????????????

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    The ball is spotted where the player went out of bounds.

    Correct, he was out of bounds when the ball touched the ground.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So why on a Touchdown do you need to hit the PYLON...????????  (with the ball)

    [/QUOTE]


    So you can get forward progress by flying out of bounds 5 yards as long as you don't touch the ground .  Why don't you see more players leaping ( and avoiding contact) out of bounds....../???????????????

    [/QUOTE]



    This has to be WRONG

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to digger0862's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ghostofjri37's comment:

    [QUOTE]Based on the angle it looks as though the ball should be spotted between the 11 & 10. that's the plane it looks like the ball crossed.
    [/QUOTE]
    There is no plane on the sideline, only on the goal line.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Plane was a bad choice of words. once your body goes/touches out of bounds the ball is spotted at the point where the ball crosses the sideline.

    [/QUOTE]


    um...  so Geno touches out of bounds with the ball  3 feet OB  .  spot goes back to where ball crossed sideline?

    [/QUOTE]

     If it is the same as the ruling on TD's at the pylon then yes. If you dive for the end zone and the ball does not cross in front of the pylon or doesn't touch the pylon then it is not a TD.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to coolade2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    So why on a Touchdown do you need to hit the PYLON...????????  (with the ball)

    [/QUOTE]


    So you can get forward progress by flying out of bounds 5 yards as long as you don't touch the ground .  Why don't you see more players leaping ( and avoiding contact) out of bounds....../???????????????

    [/QUOTE]


    This is true.   You seal the edge and use an Olympic long jumper to jump out of bounds an extra 8 yards or so.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    Re: Explain the ball f. progress ruling on this play

    In response to rtuinila's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I remember that play.   I think a lot of us believe the refs got that wrong.  There are still too many errors made in today's NFL.  It's better than it was years ago, but still unacceptable.

    Here's what the NFL RuleBook says on the Smith play:

    ************************************************************************

    Rule 3 Section 22: Out of Bounds and Inbounds Spot

    INBOUNDS SPOT Article 3 The Inbounds Spot is a spot 70 feet 9 inches in from the sideline on the yard line passing through the spot where the ball or a runner is out of bounds between the goal lines. Under certain conditions, the ball is dead in a side zone or has been placed there as the result of a penalty. See 7-6-2. Note: Ordinarily the out-of-bounds spot is the spot where the ball crossed a sideline. However, if a ball, while still within a boundary line, is declared out of bounds because of touching anything that is out of bounds, the out-of-bounds spot is on the yard line through the spot of the ball at the instant of such touching.   ***************************************************************************************************************** I highlighted the relevant section.   No exceptions applied to this play.  It should have been marked short of the first down.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think you have that right. I believe the ball gets spotted where it touches something that is out of bounds. That could be the ground, a player, a down marker or anything that is already out of bounds. The rule you cited here explains where the ball is placed after the play is over. Case in point, someone can run the entire length of the field with the ball held over the sideline and as long as they pull the ball back over the field of play when they cross the goal line, it is a touchdown. Also all the receivers making those highlight reel catches by leaning out of bounds with both feet still in bounds would be declared incomplete.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is wrong, since all players would leap as they approached the sideline not merely hold the ball out.

     
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