Extension for Talib?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to Norger's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wouldn't make a big deal over the whole 4th round thing considering we can't even hit on 2nd rounders.

    [/QUOTE]


    Totally agree.  Definitely worth the "risk."

    [/QUOTE]

    +1

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    I don't know if I'd be in a rush to extend a guy that shot at someone a year ago...I'd probably have to see this guy turn into Ty Law before I did that. If he does that, then fine. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is always the franchise tag...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the franchise tag last year was over $10M for cornerbacks... Let's not get carried away. There is a big difference between being the best CB on the Pats and being one of the top CBs in the league... 

    [/QUOTE]


    There is also a big difference between giving a guy 1 year and 10 million and say even the Bodden contract that was like 4/24. Especially if Welker is either gone or resigned for less money... he'd essentially replace the 1 year tag on Wes.

    Talib could be a safer bet on a 1 year deal than giving him several... I bet we all wish we'd only gone one more year with Moss or Dillon and used that $ elsewhere rather than giving them 3 year deals where they never again performed like in year 1. 

    They franchised Samuel once rather than give him 4-5 years and big $. If Talib does what we expect and keeps his nose clean and performs as above and beyond the best corner we have had since  (at least)Bodden in '09, then he is likely going to be getting 5/30 and beyond. Jason McCourty was just given 5/43, Cortland Finnegan got 5/50, Dunta Robinson 6/57, Brandon Carr 5/50, Asomugha 5/60... on and on

    the franchise tag doesn't look so bad next to that...

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is always the franchise tag...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the franchise tag last year was over $10M for cornerbacks... Let's not get carried away. There is a big difference between being the best CB on the Pats and being one of the top CBs in the league... 

    [/QUOTE]


    There is also a big difference between giving a guy 1 year and 10 million and say even the Bodden contract that was like 4/24. Especially if Welker is either gone or resigned for less money... he'd essentially replace the 1 year tag on Wes.

    Talib could be a safer bet on a 1 year deal than giving him several... I bet we all wish we'd only gone one more year with Moss or Dillon and used that $ elsewhere rather than giving them 3 year deals where they never again performed like in year 1. 

    They franchised Samuel once rather than give him 4-5 years and big $. If Talib does what we expect and keeps his nose clean and performs as above and beyond the best corner we have had since  (at least)Bodden in '09, then he is likely going to be getting 5/30 and beyond. Jason McCourty was just given 5/43, Cortland Finnegan got 5/50, Dunta Robinson 6/57, Brandon Carr 5/50, Asomugha 5/60... on and on

    the franchise tag doesn't look so bad next to that...

    [/QUOTE]

    The down side of franchising a guy with off field problems is that if he does have problems you cannot get out of the contract. The whole 10M+ is going to count against the cap that year.

    I really think we should let the guy play a game and see if he makes a difference before we start talking about franchising him.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't know if I'd be in a rush to extend a guy that shot at someone a year ago...I'd probably have to see this guy turn into Ty Law before I did that. If he does that, then fine. 

    [/QUOTE]

    for starters mthurl,

     he and his mother were taking care of a bad situation with the sister whose boyfriend is in jail now for multiple sexual crime offenses. did hit him with a gun and shot near hium vs at him t scrare him. so hes not a boy scout, but it sounds like the exboyfriend needed the message, and talib was someone who coudl give it.

    all that being said, if hes good and bb lieks his attitude, im sure theyll extend him. otherwise we go for a superbowl now. and in offseason get a fa cb.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is always the franchise tag...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the franchise tag last year was over $10M for cornerbacks... Let's not get carried away. There is a big difference between being the best CB on the Pats and being one of the top CBs in the league... 

    [/QUOTE]


    There is also a big difference between giving a guy 1 year and 10 million and say even the Bodden contract that was like 4/24. Especially if Welker is either gone or resigned for less money... he'd essentially replace the 1 year tag on Wes.

    Talib could be a safer bet on a 1 year deal than giving him several... I bet we all wish we'd only gone one more year with Moss or Dillon and used that $ elsewhere rather than giving them 3 year deals where they never again performed like in year 1. 

    They franchised Samuel once rather than give him 4-5 years and big $. If Talib does what we expect and keeps his nose clean and performs as above and beyond the best corner we have had since  (at least)Bodden in '09, then he is likely going to be getting 5/30 and beyond. Jason McCourty was just given 5/43, Cortland Finnegan got 5/50, Dunta Robinson 6/57, Brandon Carr 5/50, Asomugha 5/60... on and on

    the franchise tag doesn't look so bad next to that...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    we usually think alike, ive been saying the same for a while re fa cb while many of course trashed the posts 

    yes if hes great, tag, but even better if he'll go for a contract that is incentive based and gives pats an out if he gets out of line. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is always the franchise tag...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the franchise tag last year was over $10M for cornerbacks... Let's not get carried away. There is a big difference between being the best CB on the Pats and being one of the top CBs in the league... 

    [/QUOTE]


    There is also a big difference between giving a guy 1 year and 10 million and say even the Bodden contract that was like 4/24. Especially if Welker is either gone or resigned for less money... he'd essentially replace the 1 year tag on Wes.

    Talib could be a safer bet on a 1 year deal than giving him several... I bet we all wish we'd only gone one more year with Moss or Dillon and used that $ elsewhere rather than giving them 3 year deals where they never again performed like in year 1. 

    They franchised Samuel once rather than give him 4-5 years and big $. If Talib does what we expect and keeps his nose clean and performs as above and beyond the best corner we have had since  (at least)Bodden in '09, then he is likely going to be getting 5/30 and beyond. Jason McCourty was just given 5/43, Cortland Finnegan got 5/50, Dunta Robinson 6/57, Brandon Carr 5/50, Asomugha 5/60... on and on

    the franchise tag doesn't look so bad next to that...

    [/QUOTE]

    The down side of franchising a guy with off field problems is that if he does have problems you cannot get out of the contract. The whole 10M+ is going to count against the cap that year.

    I really think we should let the guy play a game and see if he makes a difference before we start talking about franchising him.

    [/QUOTE]

    but of course. i think folks are discussing the idea of keeping him if hes good and works out.

    im sure all the coaches are running these ideas through their mind as well. theres nothing wrong with discussing them now eh?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    Let's see how he performs on the field first. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to FrnkBnhm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There is always the franchise tag...

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the franchise tag last year was over $10M for cornerbacks... Let's not get carried away. There is a big difference between being the best CB on the Pats and being one of the top CBs in the league... 

    [/QUOTE]


    There is also a big difference between giving a guy 1 year and 10 million and say even the Bodden contract that was like 4/24. Especially if Welker is either gone or resigned for less money... he'd essentially replace the 1 year tag on Wes.

    Talib could be a safer bet on a 1 year deal than giving him several... I bet we all wish we'd only gone one more year with Moss or Dillon and used that $ elsewhere rather than giving them 3 year deals where they never again performed like in year 1. 

    They franchised Samuel once rather than give him 4-5 years and big $. If Talib does what we expect and keeps his nose clean and performs as above and beyond the best corner we have had since  (at least)Bodden in '09, then he is likely going to be getting 5/30 and beyond. Jason McCourty was just given 5/43, Cortland Finnegan got 5/50, Dunta Robinson 6/57, Brandon Carr 5/50, Asomugha 5/60... on and on

    the franchise tag doesn't look so bad next to that...

    [/QUOTE]

    The down side of franchising a guy with off field problems is that if he does have problems you cannot get out of the contract. The whole 10M+ is going to count against the cap that year.

    I really think we should let the guy play a game and see if he makes a difference before we start talking about franchising him.

    [/QUOTE]

    umm... duh?

    My response was to people complaining that if he was really good he was going to walk as a FA and it was a steep price for a rental

    Those people are silly... swapping a 4th for a 7th to add an elite cover corner, teams biggest weakness, in a year you want to win a SB... all as brady gets older... is NEVER a dumb move, despite the draft pick price and the off-field concerns.

    If you are worried we can't sign him to an extension WE CAN FRANCHISE HIM... like we did before Asante's last year

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from FrnkBnhm. Show FrnkBnhm's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    umm... duh?

    My response was to people complaining that if he was really good he was going to walk as a FA and it was a steep price for a rental

    Those people are silly... swapping a 4th for a 7th to add an elite cover corner, teams biggest weakness, in a year you want to win a SB... all as brady gets older... is NEVER a dumb move, despite the draft pick price and the off-field concerns.

    If you are worried we can't sign him to an extension WE CAN FRANCHISE HIM... like we did before Asante's last year

    [/QUOTE]

    I think if he plays well, it is not a steep price even if he walks at the end of the season.

    We have to wait and see if he plays like and elite cover corner... Tampa Bay's pass defense was actually worse than the Patriots during the four games that Talib was on the field so he did not make a huge difference there. 

    Honestly, I think a fourth round pick is worth it even in he does not work out. Really what percentage of 4th round picks last more than a rookie contract in the NFL?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    yeah I agree with you there, and Reiss wrote an article today on how Nicks 155 yard TD explosion vs. him was misleading as Talib was competitive in the man, most yards came when they went zone and the Td came on an unluckly slip at the line

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yeah I agree with you there, and Reiss wrote an article today on how Nicks 155 yard TD explosion vs. him was misleading as Talib was competitive in the man, most yards came when they went zone and the Td came on an unluckly slip at the line

    [/QUOTE]

    yes agreed. ive written same without seeing reiss piece.

    it woudl be smart to put him on the best wr and do what you wnat with the rest of teh defense.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yeah I agree with you there, and Reiss wrote an article today on how Nicks 155 yard TD explosion vs. him was misleading as Talib was competitive in the man, most yards came when they went zone and the Td came on an unluckly slip at the line

    [/QUOTE]

    yes agreed. ive written same without seeing reiss piece.

    it woudl be smart to put him on the best wr and do what you wnat with the rest of teh defense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah he is a tough SOB and Reiss talked a lot about how fluid his hips are and how he rarely get caught looking back. Talib will jam guys at the line, has an excellent move to bar WR's with his arm in the legal zone and then can run stride for stride with most anyone using every inch of his length and not needing safety helps.

    He is just average (sufficient was the word Mike used) in run support, but considering thats an area that McCourty, Arrington and Dennard all seem well above average at the Pats can just have him shadow the most difficult WR matchup in mostly man, then worry about how best to use and 'mix and match' everyone else.

    I have not been this excited about our seconday since I thought we'd be pairing the '09 Bodden with the '10 McCourty last year. Let's hope the results of the next 3 months are better than that:-)

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yeah I agree with you there, and Reiss wrote an article today on how Nicks 155 yard TD explosion vs. him was misleading as Talib was competitive in the man, most yards came when they went zone and the Td came on an unluckly slip at the line

    [/QUOTE]

    yes agreed. ive written same without seeing reiss piece.

    it woudl be smart to put him on the best wr and do what you wnat with the rest of teh defense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah he is a tough SOB and Reiss talked a lot about how fluid his hips are and how he rarely get caught looking back. Talib will jam guys at the line, has an excellent move to bar WR's with his arm in the legal zone and then can run stride for stride with most anyone using every inch of his length and not needing safety helps.

    He is just average (sufficient was the word Mike used) in run support, but considering thats an area that McCourty, Arrington and Dennard all seem well above average at the Pats can just have him shadow the most difficult WR matchup in mostly man, then worry about how best to use and 'mix and match' everyone else.

    I have not been this excited about our seconday since I thought we'd be pairing the '09 Bodden with the '10 McCourty last year. Let's hope the results of the next 3 months are better than that:-)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    hey rame,

     re: 

    " Pats can just have him shadow the most difficult WR matchup in mostly man, then worry about how best to use and 'mix and match' everyone else."

    that is how i would do it.

    howeva, about beign excited about the whole secondary, we may have a step or 2 to take for me to get there.

    definitely was excited abotu the move.

    cant wait till next game, and the gaem after when he is eligible

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yeah I agree with you there, and Reiss wrote an article today on how Nicks 155 yard TD explosion vs. him was misleading as Talib was competitive in the man, most yards came when they went zone and the Td came on an unluckly slip at the line

    [/QUOTE]

    yes agreed. ive written same without seeing reiss piece.

    it woudl be smart to put him on the best wr and do what you wnat with the rest of teh defense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah he is a tough SOB and Reiss talked a lot about how fluid his hips are and how he rarely get caught looking back. Talib will jam guys at the line, has an excellent move to bar WR's with his arm in the legal zone and then can run stride for stride with most anyone using every inch of his length and not needing safety helps.

    He is just average (sufficient was the word Mike used) in run support, but considering thats an area that McCourty, Arrington and Dennard all seem well above average at the Pats can just have him shadow the most difficult WR matchup in mostly man, then worry about how best to use and 'mix and match' everyone else.

    I have not been this excited about our seconday since I thought we'd be pairing the '09 Bodden with the '10 McCourty last year. Let's hope the results of the next 3 months are better than that:-)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    hey rame,

     re: 

    " Pats can just have him shadow the most difficult WR matchup in mostly man, then worry about how best to use and 'mix and match' everyone else."

    that is how i would do it.

    howeva, about beign excited about the whole secondary, we may have a step or 2 to take for me to get there.

    definitely was excited abotu the move.

    cant wait till next game, and the gaem after when he is eligible

    [/QUOTE]


    Well I am as excited about the secondary as I've been since the offseason of '10 when I thought we'd have:

    McCourty - next Ty Law after rookie pro-bowl season

    Bodden - savvy vet returning to near pro-bowl play of '09

    Butler - finally 'gets it' to be a spped/dime/ST's stud

    Wilhite - steadily improving nickel/slot cover guy

    Chung - makes big 3rd year leap improving on the flashes we saw and staying healthy

    Merriweather - keeps the aggression but plays w more smarts as he's a vet not a kid now

    Sanders - class act vet depth safety

    Soooooo.... after they cut Merriweather, Sanders, Bodden, Butler and Wilhite and watched McCourty regress A LOT and Chung not improve AT ALL.... I'd say the excitement went away pretty quick, hahahaha.

    Now I'm just saying I'm as excited as I'd been SINCE like July of 2010... but have learned my lesson to not get my hopes up too much;-)

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bredbru's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    yeah I agree with you there, and Reiss wrote an article today on how Nicks 155 yard TD explosion vs. him was misleading as Talib was competitive in the man, most yards came when they went zone and the Td came on an unluckly slip at the line

    [/QUOTE]

    yes agreed. ive written same without seeing reiss piece.

    it woudl be smart to put him on the best wr and do what you wnat with the rest of teh defense.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah he is a tough SOB and Reiss talked a lot about how fluid his hips are and how he rarely get caught looking back. Talib will jam guys at the line, has an excellent move to bar WR's with his arm in the legal zone and then can run stride for stride with most anyone using every inch of his length and not needing safety helps.

    He is just average (sufficient was the word Mike used) in run support, but considering thats an area that McCourty, Arrington and Dennard all seem well above average at the Pats can just have him shadow the most difficult WR matchup in mostly man, then worry about how best to use and 'mix and match' everyone else.

    I have not been this excited about our seconday since I thought we'd be pairing the '09 Bodden with the '10 McCourty last year. Let's hope the results of the next 3 months are better than that:-)

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    hey rame,

     re: 

    " Pats can just have him shadow the most difficult WR matchup in mostly man, then worry about how best to use and 'mix and match' everyone else."

    that is how i would do it.

    howeva, about beign excited about the whole secondary, we may have a step or 2 to take for me to get there.

    definitely was excited abotu the move.

    cant wait till next game, and the gaem after when he is eligible

    [/QUOTE]


    Well I am as excited about the secondary as I've been since the offseason of '10 when I thought we'd have:

    McCourty - next Ty Law after rookie pro-bowl season

    Bodden - savvy vet returning to near pro-bowl play of '09

    Butler - finally 'gets it' to be a spped/dime/ST's stud

    Wilhite - steadily improving nickel/slot cover guy

    Chung - makes big 3rd year leap improving on the flashes we saw and staying healthy

    Merriweather - keeps the aggression but plays w more smarts as he's a vet not a kid now

    Sanders - class act vet depth safety

    Soooooo.... after they cut Merriweather, Sanders, Bodden, Butler and Wilhite and watched McCourty regress A LOT and Chung not improve AT ALL.... I'd say the excitement went away pretty quick, hahahaha.

    Now I'm just saying I'm as excited as I'd been SINCE like July of 2010... but have learned my lesson to not get my hopes up too much;-)

    [/QUOTE]

    hey rame,

    oh i think there is reason for excitement in a possible drastic improvement in our secondary and i am excited! i thought you were saying you were excited about the unit as a whole and id like ot see a little more change before im excited about the whole unit :)

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    Yeah I'm just saying I am excited to see what comes of this and think it could be a great move for our team, I'm not expecting there to be anyway the secondary is worse after this, thats for sure.

    It has been 16 months since a time that I was MORE excited about our secondary, but as you can see that went down the toilet pretty fast.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Extension for Talib?

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah I'm just saying I am excited to see what comes of this and think it could be a great move for our team, I'm not expecting there to be anyway the secondary is worse after this, thats for sure.

    It has been 16 months since a time that I was MORE excited about our secondary, but as you can see that went down the toilet pretty fast.

    [/QUOTE]

    hear ya :)

     
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