FA Summary

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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I don't get why people are so surprised?  BB rarely ever spends big money in free agency.  He prefers to preserve cap space for keeping younger players we drafted or traded for in house (which is why I expect us to retain Vollmer) and then finds value in FA on lots of cheap and potentially undervalued vets.

    During the SB years this approach yielded guys like Joe Andruzzi, Bobby Hamilton, Mike Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Larry Izzo, Bryan Cox, Anthony Pleasant, Antowain Smith, David Patten, Christian Fauria, Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole and Keith Traylor.  None of these guys were flashy signings and all played important roles in our SB victories.

    In other years its yielded guys like Leigh Bodden (who was actually dam good before we paid him), Alge Crumpler, Andre Carter, Mark Anderson, Brian Waters, Brandon Lloyd (who I will admit I am confused why we cut), Dante Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Danny Woodhead, Tully Banta Cain (who again was pretty good before we paid him), Junior Seau and Gerard Warren who all made contributions to the teams they were on (many of whom were on teams that made it to the SB).

    Some years it works better than others, but I don't see what is so controversial about the approach.  There is a salary cap and we'd prefer to use that space on players that have experience in the system.  We build through the draft and fill in the gaps with FA hoping to hit on enough to put us over the top.  Again I question whether we would be having this conversation if Asante holds onto the pick or Wes holds onto the pass.  No one is saying BB is infallible, but I don't mind the methodology.  Is it that different than what a team like the Ravens do for example?  Everyone seems to think Newsome is a good personnel guy (and he is).



    I think the approach (value) works when you sign the right guys, my argument is that haven't been signing the right guys. Even the best guys we signed over the last 5 years didn't stick for more than a season (Carter, Waters, Anderson , Lloyd) all those guys had to be replaced. It takes resources to do that everytime. When you continually use up resources to put guys in your secondary over and over again...you end up not improving...you end up missing out on golden oppurtunities (like facing Tim Tebow and having a kicker miss a gimme field goal to get to a Super Bowl before being punched in the face by a better team).

    Using second round pick after second round pick on safeties and corners (that don't pan out) are resources that could of added to this team. Instead they were wastes that tried to fill holes that free agency didn't.

    I think the magic carpet ride will end when the ultimate equalizer (Brady) starts to decline. When that happens it will stop being about "The Patriot Way and value" and more about let's get some better free agents...let's spend to the cap...let's do something before this place turns into a ghost town again.  

     
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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

     



    I think the approach (value) works when you sign the right guys, my argument is that haven't been signing the right guys. Even the best guys we signed over the last 5 years didn't stick for more than a season (Carter, Waters, Anderson , Lloyd) all those guys had to be replaced. It takes resources to do that everytime. When you continually use up resources to put guys in your secondary over and over again...you end up not improving...you end up missing out on golden oppurtunities (like facing Tim Tebow and having a kicker miss a gimme field goal to get to a Super Bowl before being punched in the face by a better team).

     

    Using second round pick after second round pick on safeties and corners (that don't pan out) are resources that could of added to this team. Instead they were wastes that tried to fill holes that free agency didn't.

    I think the magic carpet ride will end when the ultimate equalizer (Brady) starts to decline. When that happens it will stop being about "The Patriot Way and value" and more about let's get some better free agents...let's spend to the cap...let's do something before this place turns into a ghost town again.  

     



    You don't get it. The cost element and the approach is actually TIED to who they get. So, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too as the armchair GM, whining about who it is after he brings them in. Ironic, since you bake cakes as a Home Ec teacher.

     When Brady retires, when BB is still here he won't alter this approach. Does it help to have a great QB to check off the list? Absolutely.

    But, take a look at other GMs who have a great QB. Ted Thompson in GB.  Loomis in NOs. GB is still trying to put a D together. NOs just went 7-9 and it had to do a lot more with poro cap management by Loomis and a lack of continuity on D, in particular, than it did with Bountygate and its distractions.

    Ted Thompson's plan to ge to a SB? 5 years. BB's? 3.  The difference is one QB played MUCH better than ours did.

    Look at Elway. Just took a 1 year rental on Welker, lost his OLB starter and has questions at LB and Safety still, with cap issues causing a problem to address that.  Bad management. I don't care what the media says.

    BB will have a better and deeper roster here in 2013 than Denver will in 2013. Just watch.

    So, BB is clearly the best even when you compare him to teams who also have an elite QB.  So, you're argument there has failed.

    Other teams in trouble with elite QBs include Pitt, NYGs and Baltimore.

    And get over the Wheatley and Butler misses. That was 4 and 5 years ago!  Get over it.

    They've been in a SB, had Talib and Dennard in here last year doing well with Arrington in the slot. If Talib doesn't get hurt, which admittedly is frustrating, just like it was with Carter not being in SB 46, we are playing in back to back SBs!!

     

     




    NO!  You don't get it,  He's calling for quality over quantity.  Someone earlier noted 8 poor safety accusitions in the past 2 years.  Why not just ONE who is still here and contributing?

    Why not Harrison over Tavon Wilson?  They went like 2 picks apart.

    Your buddy Reiss gets it;

    Q. Mike, is the signing of Adrian Wilson an early admission that second-round pick Tavon Wilson is a bust? His selection was considered a big reach by many. Why does Bill Belichick, a defensive guru with all his collegiate connections, struggle drafting defensive backs that can contribute and stay with the team? Patrick Chung is the latest example. At least he lasted longer than Darius Butler, who was taken in the same round in 2009. -- Ben (Grass Lake, Mich.)

    A. Ben, I wouldn't say that the addition of Adrian Wilson is a reflection on Tavon Wilson. In Adrian Wilson, the Patriots add an element of toughness that has shades of Rodney Harrison to it, even though Adrian Wilson is older than Harrison was when first arriving. I'm sure Bill Belichick has a specific role in mind for him -- maybe sub-package linebacker -- and that could evolve on a week-to-week basis. I like the signing, as long as Wilson can still run at a competitive level. As for Belichick and defensive backs, there have been more misses in recent years. If some of the defensive backs went on to greater things elsewhere, we could point to the coaching as perhaps a big reason for the struggles in development. But that really hasn't happened. So that points more to talent evaluation and a flaw somewhere in that area.

     
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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

     



    I think the approach (value) works when you sign the right guys, my argument is that haven't been signing the right guys. Even the best guys we signed over the last 5 years didn't stick for more than a season (Carter, Waters, Anderson , Lloyd) all those guys had to be replaced. It takes resources to do that everytime. When you continually use up resources to put guys in your secondary over and over again...you end up not improving...you end up missing out on golden oppurtunities (like facing Tim Tebow and having a kicker miss a gimme field goal to get to a Super Bowl before being punched in the face by a better team).

     

    Using second round pick after second round pick on safeties and corners (that don't pan out) are resources that could of added to this team. Instead they were wastes that tried to fill holes that free agency didn't.

    I think the magic carpet ride will end when the ultimate equalizer (Brady) starts to decline. When that happens it will stop being about "The Patriot Way and value" and more about let's get some better free agents...let's spend to the cap...let's do something before this place turns into a ghost town again.  

     



    You don't get it. The cost element and the approach is actually TIED to who they get. So, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too as the armchair GM, whining about who it is after he brings them in. Ironic, since you bake cakes as a Home Ec teacher.

     When Brady retires, when BB is still here he won't alter this approach. Does it help to have a great QB to check off the list? Absolutely.

    But, take a look at other GMs who have a great QB. Ted Thompson in GB.  Loomis in NOs. GB is still trying to put a D together. NOs just went 7-9 and it had to do a lot more with poro cap management by Loomis and a lack of continuity on D, in particular, than it did with Bountygate and its distractions.

    Ted Thompson's plan to ge to a SB? 5 years. BB's? 3.  The difference is one QB played MUCH better than ours did.

    Look at Elway. Just took a 1 year rental on Welker, lost his OLB starter and has questions at LB and Safety still, with cap issues causing a problem to address that.  Bad management. I don't care what the media says.

    BB will have a better and deeper roster here in 2013 than Denver will in 2013. Just watch.

    So, BB is clearly the best even when you compare him to teams who also have an elite QB.  So, you're argument there has failed.

    Other teams in trouble with elite QBs include Pitt, NYGs and Baltimore.

    And get over the Wheatley and Butler misses. That was 4 and 5 years ago!  Get over it.

    They've been in a SB, had Talib and Dennard in here last year doing well with Arrington in the slot. If Talib doesn't get hurt, which admittedly is frustrating, just like it was with Carter not being in SB 46, we are playing in back to back SBs!!

     

     



    Think about the cost element of paying for Ocho, Haynesworth, Fenene, Gallery, Addai, Stallworth, Gaffney, Bodden, Fells, Scianaco...none of these guys worked out. Now add the second round bust salaries into the equation...what does that total? 40 million all together? That's a waste...a big one...never mind the lack of production from these guys. It has hurt us.

    We were not some bottom feeding team with a rookie quarterback, in some small sleepy town. We had the best QB in football...the best coach...in one of the best sporting areas in America.

    This was the year all these teams were going to purge their rosters because of salary cap hell. Well where are all these wonderful players we were going to sign for cheap? So far we signed a 34 year old safety that was benched on his previous team, lost our best play maker on offense, lost a versatile running back, have been kicking the tires on old pass rushers, overpayed for a injury prone receiver, signed a troubled corner to a one year deal (which may be the best thing we did), cut our most productive outside receiver and are on the verge of losing the best right tackle in football. That's masterful?

    And what about Fenene's signing bonus we can go after...how much will that save on our cap? Will we use that money on a young free agent or will we gold plate one of Kraft's helicoptor blades?  

     
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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

     



    I think the approach (value) works when you sign the right guys, my argument is that haven't been signing the right guys. Even the best guys we signed over the last 5 years didn't stick for more than a season (Carter, Waters, Anderson , Lloyd) all those guys had to be replaced. It takes resources to do that everytime. When you continually use up resources to put guys in your secondary over and over again...you end up not improving...you end up missing out on golden oppurtunities (like facing Tim Tebow and having a kicker miss a gimme field goal to get to a Super Bowl before being punched in the face by a better team).

     

    Using second round pick after second round pick on safeties and corners (that don't pan out) are resources that could of added to this team. Instead they were wastes that tried to fill holes that free agency didn't.

    I think the magic carpet ride will end when the ultimate equalizer (Brady) starts to decline. When that happens it will stop being about "The Patriot Way and value" and more about let's get some better free agents...let's spend to the cap...let's do something before this place turns into a ghost town again.  

     



    You don't get it. The cost element and the approach is actually TIED to who they get. So, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too as the armchair GM, whining about who it is after he brings them in. Ironic, since you bake cakes as a Home Ec teacher.

     When Brady retires, when BB is still here he won't alter this approach. Does it help to have a great QB to check off the list? Absolutely.

    But, take a look at other GMs who have a great QB. Ted Thompson in GB.  Loomis in NOs. GB is still trying to put a D together. NOs just went 7-9 and it had to do a lot more with poro cap management by Loomis and a lack of continuity on D, in particular, than it did with Bountygate and its distractions.

    Ted Thompson's plan to ge to a SB? 5 years. BB's? 3.  The difference is one QB played MUCH better than ours did.

    Look at Elway. Just took a 1 year rental on Welker, lost his OLB starter and has questions at LB and Safety still, with cap issues causing a problem to address that.  Bad management. I don't care what the media says.

    BB will have a better and deeper roster here in 2013 than Denver will in 2013. Just watch.

    So, BB is clearly the best even when you compare him to teams who also have an elite QB.  So, you're argument there has failed.

    Other teams in trouble with elite QBs include Pitt, NYGs and Baltimore.

    And get over the Wheatley and Butler misses. That was 4 and 5 years ago!  Get over it.

    They've been in a SB, had Talib and Dennard in here last year doing well with Arrington in the slot. If Talib doesn't get hurt, which admittedly is frustrating, just like it was with Carter not being in SB 46, we are playing in back to back SBs!!

     

     

     



    Think about the cost element of paying for Ocho, Haynesworth, Fenene, Gallery, Addai, Stallworth, Gaffney, Bodden, Fells, Scianaco...none of these guys worked out. Now add the second round bust salaries into the equation...what does that total? 40 million all together? That's a waste...a big one...never mind the lack of production from these guys. It has hurt us.

     

    We were not some bottom feeding team with a rookie quarterback, in some small sleepy town. We had the best QB in football...the best coach...in one of the best sporting areas in America.

    This was the year all these teams were going to purge their rosters because of salary cap hell. Well where are all these wonderful players we were going to sign for cheap? So far we signed a 34 year old safety that was benched on his previous team, lost our best play maker on offense, lost a versatile running back, have been kicking the tires on old pass rushers, overpayed for a injury prone receiver, signed a troubled corner to a one year deal (which may be the best thing we did), cut our most productive outside receiver and are on the verge of losing the best right tackle in football. That's masterful?

    And what about Fenene's signing bonus we can go after...how much will that save on our cap? Will we use that money on a young free agent or will we gold plate one of Kraft's helicoptor blades?  

     




    It wasn't a waste. They were short term moves. Considering Waters, Anderson and Carter were so cheap and successes, they offset the random, cheaper trickle down cast off flyers on

     

    What did you want? Elvis Dumervil at 12 million per? Wake up.

    You keep insinutating that Kraft doesn't spend due to being cheap. That's Jeremy Jacobs. Your comments REEK of someone not getting economics. There is a SALARY CAP.  Even your comment of "we're on the verge of losing Vollmer" REEKS of you not getting it. BB is using the market. Do you have any clue what this means?

    You, Tony Mazz, Felger, etc, say the same things and it just shows that deep down, you just don't get it. Your IQ is seriously to low. That's not my problem. People have tried to teach you about these concepts, but you, Bdbreu, Pezzy, TFB12 just run around here babbling about needing to sign any trendy FA at any price to make yourself feel good.

    The media slaps up their articles "Mike Wallace 13 million per, Miami to win SB!" and you fall for it because it ends up on your ESPN homepage. LOL

    Taking a flyer for one year on Ochocinco, who should have worked better as Lloyd DID UNDER MARKET, is better than say doing what MIami just did with Mike Wallace at 13 million. That's right, BETTER. Why? Because it's not a long term deal OVER market.

    At every turn, really what you, Pezzy, etc, are really doing is making excuses for Tom Brady's crappy postseasons. That's what is behind your comments. We all know it. The board has now seen the light. Welker moved on from, was step 1. Brady has GOT to be better in the postseason.

    Well, go back to 2007, too, Mt Hurl. We had a loaded, veteran D that held NY's offense down to 10 points for 58 minutes.

    At the end of the day, you lost.

     

     




    See you really are a bit off in so many levels that I feel as if I (or perhaps no one) can help you:(

    We can list the free agent busts over and over again, but yet you don't see it as a waste of money or resources. You don't make the connection that when you're trying to build towards improvement, you can't keep taking steps back. So even the ones that worked out (and there were few) had to be replenished a year later..it took more resources...it took more time...time is what we no longer have:(

    There were years that we got the right guys - and I'm greatful for that - the problem is this thing is coming to an end...it's almost over now. And we really didn't improve the team enough with the resources that were available to us. I know Belichick knows what a football player is suppossed to look like in terms of player evaluation, etc, it's just that the "patriot way" has stopped him from getting the players he wanted/needs. This never ending value approach. No one has ever said we needed to go out and sign Mario Williams every year, but you had best do that once in every say 4 years. Julious Peppers would of made a difference here...too much money. Dashon Goldson could of helped...too much money. Cliff Avril and Bennett could of gave us something. I feel like as of right now the baot has been missed, the ship has sailed. We are doing a hell of a job keeping our books nice and balanced...we are not building a team as best we can. Kraft said he would spend to the cap this year...he said that...he had better mean it.   

     
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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

    In response to RidingWithTheKingII's comment:

     

    In response to mthurl's comment:

     

     

     



    I think the approach (value) works when you sign the right guys, my argument is that haven't been signing the right guys. Even the best guys we signed over the last 5 years didn't stick for more than a season (Carter, Waters, Anderson , Lloyd) all those guys had to be replaced. It takes resources to do that everytime. When you continually use up resources to put guys in your secondary over and over again...you end up not improving...you end up missing out on golden oppurtunities (like facing Tim Tebow and having a kicker miss a gimme field goal to get to a Super Bowl before being punched in the face by a better team).

     

    Using second round pick after second round pick on safeties and corners (that don't pan out) are resources that could of added to this team. Instead they were wastes that tried to fill holes that free agency didn't.

    I think the magic carpet ride will end when the ultimate equalizer (Brady) starts to decline. When that happens it will stop being about "The Patriot Way and value" and more about let's get some better free agents...let's spend to the cap...let's do something before this place turns into a ghost town again.  

     



    You don't get it. The cost element and the approach is actually TIED to who they get. So, you're trying to have your cake and eat it too as the armchair GM, whining about who it is after he brings them in. Ironic, since you bake cakes as a Home Ec teacher.

     When Brady retires, when BB is still here he won't alter this approach. Does it help to have a great QB to check off the list? Absolutely.

    But, take a look at other GMs who have a great QB. Ted Thompson in GB.  Loomis in NOs. GB is still trying to put a D together. NOs just went 7-9 and it had to do a lot more with poro cap management by Loomis and a lack of continuity on D, in particular, than it did with Bountygate and its distractions.

    Ted Thompson's plan to ge to a SB? 5 years. BB's? 3.  The difference is one QB played MUCH better than ours did.

    Look at Elway. Just took a 1 year rental on Welker, lost his OLB starter and has questions at LB and Safety still, with cap issues causing a problem to address that.  Bad management. I don't care what the media says.

    BB will have a better and deeper roster here in 2013 than Denver will in 2013. Just watch.

    So, BB is clearly the best even when you compare him to teams who also have an elite QB.  So, you're argument there has failed.

    Other teams in trouble with elite QBs include Pitt, NYGs and Baltimore.

    And get over the Wheatley and Butler misses. That was 4 and 5 years ago!  Get over it.

    They've been in a SB, had Talib and Dennard in here last year doing well with Arrington in the slot. If Talib doesn't get hurt, which admittedly is frustrating, just like it was with Carter not being in SB 46, we are playing in back to back SBs!!

     

     

     



    Think about the cost element of paying for Ocho, Haynesworth, Fenene, Gallery, Addai, Stallworth, Gaffney, Bodden, Fells, Scianaco...none of these guys worked out. Now add the second round bust salaries into the equation...what does that total? 40 million all together? That's a waste...a big one...never mind the lack of production from these guys. It has hurt us.

     

    We were not some bottom feeding team with a rookie quarterback, in some small sleepy town. We had the best QB in football...the best coach...in one of the best sporting areas in America.

    This was the year all these teams were going to purge their rosters because of salary cap hell. Well where are all these wonderful players we were going to sign for cheap? So far we signed a 34 year old safety that was benched on his previous team, lost our best play maker on offense, lost a versatile running back, have been kicking the tires on old pass rushers, overpayed for a injury prone receiver, signed a troubled corner to a one year deal (which may be the best thing we did), cut our most productive outside receiver and are on the verge of losing the best right tackle in football. That's masterful?

    And what about Fenene's signing bonus we can go after...how much will that save on our cap? Will we use that money on a young free agent or will we gold plate one of Kraft's helicoptor blades?  

     




    It wasn't a waste. They were short term moves. Considering Waters, Anderson and Carter were so cheap and successes, they offset the random, cheaper trickle down cast off flyers on

     

    What did you want? Elvis Dumervil at 12 million per? Wake up.

    You keep insinutating that Kraft doesn't spend due to being cheap. That's Jeremy Jacobs. Your comments REEK of someone not getting economics. There is a SALARY CAP.  Even your comment of "we're on the verge of losing Vollmer" REEKS of you not getting it. BB is using the market. Do you have any clue what this means?

    You, Tony Mazz, Felger, etc, say the same things and it just shows that deep down, you just don't get it. Your IQ is seriously to low. That's not my problem. People have tried to teach you about these concepts, but you, Bdbreu, Pezzy, TFB12 just run around here babbling about needing to sign any trendy FA at any price to make yourself feel good.

    The media slaps up their articles "Mike Wallace 13 million per, Miami to win SB!" and you fall for it because it ends up on your ESPN homepage. LOL

    Taking a flyer for one year on Ochocinco, who should have worked better as Lloyd DID UNDER MARKET, is better than say doing what MIami just did with Mike Wallace at 13 million. That's right, BETTER. Why? Because it's not a long term deal OVER market.

    At every turn, really what you, Pezzy, etc, are really doing is making excuses for Tom Brady's crappy postseasons. That's what is behind your comments. We all know it. The board has now seen the light. Welker moved on from, was step 1. Brady has GOT to be better in the postseason.

    Well, go back to 2007, too, Mt Hurl. We had a loaded, veteran D that held NY's offense down to 10 points for 58 minutes.

    At the end of the day, you lost.

     

     




    Your argument about salary cap (which everyone knows exists) is so dumb when you think about the CAP and draft picks, they wasted on failed and unproductive players who are no longer here.

    You don't think 8 poor safeties could have paid for 1 good one?  Or, the 20 or so Corners they've signed and released since Samuels, were worth the cost?

    Wasted time and wasted resources and nothing to show for it =  NO talent & NO championship.

     
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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    I don't get why people are so surprised?  BB rarely ever spends big money in free agency.  He prefers to preserve cap space for keeping younger players we drafted or traded for in house (which is why I expect us to retain Vollmer) and then finds value in FA on lots of cheap and potentially undervalued vets.

    During the SB years this approach yielded guys like Joe Andruzzi, Bobby Hamilton, Mike Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Larry Izzo, Bryan Cox, Anthony Pleasant, Antowain Smith, David Patten, Christian Fauria, Rodney Harrison, Tyrone Poole and Keith Traylor.  None of these guys were flashy signings and all played important roles in our SB victories.

    In other years its yielded guys like Leigh Bodden (who was actually dam good before we paid him), Alge Crumpler, Andre Carter, Mark Anderson, Brian Waters, Brandon Lloyd (who I will admit I am confused why we cut), Dante Stallworth, Jabar Gaffney, Danny Woodhead, Tully Banta Cain (who again was pretty good before we paid him), Junior Seau and Gerard Warren who all made contributions to the teams they were on (many of whom were on teams that made it to the SB).

    Some years it works better than others, but I don't see what is so controversial about the approach.  There is a salary cap and we'd prefer to use that space on players that have experience in the system.  We build through the draft and fill in the gaps with FA hoping to hit on enough to put us over the top.  Again I question whether we would be having this conversation if Asante holds onto the pick or Wes holds onto the pass.  No one is saying BB is infallible, but I don't mind the methodology.  Is it that different than what a team like the Ravens do for example?  Everyone seems to think Newsome is a good personnel guy (and he is).



    the players and years you refer are complimentary and worked out well for those teams in those years. evryone agrees to draft and keep what you have developed. However, The 08 and 09 draft left a big void in that philosophy, meaning there are holes on this team, that a prolific offense is able to over come in the reg season, but not in the play offs. the management of the cap has made the money available to fill those holes with in the framework of the Pats cap philosophy.the process of aged vets or some one elses cast offs has not worked so well recently, and the success you do point to Bodden, Waters, Alge,  Carter, Anderson have been 1 year band aids. Bruschi hit the nail on the head. In order to excel, this defense needs continuity, and changing personel every year does not allow BB to play the defense he wants to play. It is taking the new players 12 games to understand the scheme. An injury to 1 player on offense (Gronk) or defense (Talib or Jones) throws the system completely out of whack.

    The money is available to sign an impact player in his prime that will be a factor for 3-5 years..this will not break the bank, cause salary cap hell, or not allow the Pats to run business as usual.

     

     
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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to mthurl's comment:


    I think the approach (value) works when you sign the right guys, my argument is that haven't been signing the right guys. Even the best guys we signed over the last 5 years didn't stick for more than a season (Carter, Waters, Anderson , Lloyd) all those guys had to be replaced. It takes resources to do that everytime. When you continually use up resources to put guys in your secondary over and over again...you end up not improving...you end up missing out on golden oppurtunities (like facing Tim Tebow and having a kicker miss a gimme field goal to get to a Super Bowl before being punched in the face by a better team).

    I think it is disingenuous to argue that you are fine with the approach as long as you pick the right players and then at the same time argue we haven't signed the right players THIS year before any of them have even played a snap.  I tend to bring this issue up a lot and you always speak about liking the approach, but then in other threads you always complain about value.  You seem to be playing both sides a bit imo.

     

    [QUOTE]

    I think the magic carpet ride will end when the ultimate equalizer (Brady) starts to decline. When that happens it will stop being about "The Patriot Way and value" and more about let's get some better free agents...let's spend to the cap...let's do something before this place turns into a ghost town again.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think anyone in their right mind doesn't think having Brady hasn't been a great luxury, but let's not pretend all you need is a great QB to be successful.  How many games did Brees win in NO this year?  Now I happen to believe Brady is the best QB in the game and arguably ever, but I think this team would still be pretty good if we had any of the top 10 or 15 QBs in the NFL today.  As good?  Of course not, but let's stop acting like without Brady his replacement is automatically going to be Mark Sanchez quality when discussing the future of the team.

     
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    Re: FA Summary

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Leon Washington vs. Woodhead..Leon better kickoff returner obviously, but Woodhead is younger and more versatile on offense. I'm not sure if I'd necessarily compare the two, but I did. I'd give the edge to Woodhead in this department (in reality Vareen just needs to step up for this to work).

    Not the right comparision.  Woodhead got released because of the emergence of Vereen.  Just not enough balls to go around.  The Pats did him right by releasing him to where he could get playing time with another team.

    Welker vs. Amendola...Welker wins this easily in my opinion - Welker is the best slot receiver in the history of the NFL and Amendola is not. Amendola has upside, but if he has proven anything to this point, it's that he can't stay healthy. Welker I think can produce at a reasonably high level for another two years...and the real kicker is we could of had him at a reasonable number for that duration. Amendola may be a tick faster, but the fact is no one has caught the ball closer to the line of scrimmage than Amendola out of all the receivers in the NFL. Edge Welker.

    I would think you would wait  on the season before putting this kind of judgement out.  What was Welker before he hooked up with Brady?  To me it's a wait and see and obviously hope for the best.  Didn't want to see Welker go but it may have been time to move on.

    Donald Jones vs. Lloyd. I really hope and I suspect another shoe will drop with this one. Lloyd was reasonably solid for us...he gave us a little something 12-15 yards down the field along the sidelines...don't think that was nothing, because it helped. Jones may be that guy - he is younger, bigger and faster - but he also had a reputation for dropping balls in Buffalo. Edge Lloyd.

    Jones shows upside.  He has improved every year since coming into the league.    Brady will be throwing to him instead of Fitz.  A big difference.  I thought Lloyd to be a disappointment.  I don't know why it didn't work out but it didn't.

    Wilson and Talib vs. what we had last year. We had Talib, so that's a draw. What we had last year at safety was hot garbage, so Wilson will no doubt be better than that. Edge Wilson and Talib.

    Still need another CB in my opinion.  Just throwing that in there.  Wilson's age is a concern but a new team might be what the doctor ordered.  There's probably a little hope in there that he'll be a Harrison clone.  I agree with you on this however since there was an obvious hole at safety last year.

    Overall I have to think this whole thing is far from done. As of right now I'd say we may not of improved yet, but I'm hopefull that will change in the next couple of days. Right now the reality is we lost a slot receiver and replaced him with an unproven commodity and we lost an outside receiver and so far have replaced him with an even bigger unkown. The biggest plus was getting Talib back for the money he signed for - that was beyond huge. Adding a safety that will be 34 next season is no sure bet, but when you look at what we have at that spot...it's got to be an improvement.

    We very well could lose Vollmer and he's a very good player, but we got back Arrington (he's good in the slot). Again, I think this is far from a finished product at this point.

     No doubt.  Losing Vollmer will hurt but there seems to be a lack of interest in him for now.  The longer he's out the better for the Pats to resign him. 

    I think you carry the grudge with Rusty a bit too far.  I would agree with you in the past couple of years the FA market hasn't been one of the highlights for the Pats.  Losing Welker and possibly Vollmer doesn't help the appearance of these FA pickups either.  It kind of throws a bias into the mix.

    I agree that there is some more work to be done.  If the Pats do indeed lose Vollmer that will be the spot that will be hard to recover from and IMHO is the one place where the Pats could be hurt in all of this.  More than Welker.  Attention needs to go back to the defense.  DE, DT and another CB sure would help things.  The way things look the lack of activity on DEs could be a blessing.  Price is going down. 

     

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