Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    Okay, obviously thier first seven is a reasonable comparison since Brady only has seven.  Wouldn't you say that to compare Marino's first 11 seasons to Mannings 11 would be a fair comparison?
    Second, Rodgers?? based on what, QB rating only?  Manning is third in QB rating currently.
     
    In 2008 he was 5th in QB rating. behind Rivers, Pennington, Warner, Brees
    Manning was 5th in TD's. behind Brees, Rivers, Warner and Rodgers
    Manning was 6th in Yards behind Brees, Warner, Cutler, Rodgers, Rivers

    Manning was infact the MVP in 2008 even though Rivers, Brees, and Warner beat him in nearly every passing statistic that year.  If he wasn't even the best QB in 2008, how could he be the MVP?  MVP is, was, and always will be a popularity contest.  If you want to compare QB's you look at statistics(not just rating), wins, and superbowls.

    As I said earlier I wouldn't use passer rating alone as a measure of QB's.  Steve Young was an NFL starter for 9 years, he led in QB rating 6 of those years and has the highest QB rating of all time.
    Young   6 of 9
    Manning 3 of 11
    So I guess you think Young is the best QB of all time.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    something i came across that further simplifies the issue:

    I was struck by how close Manning and Brady are statistically, but bothered by the inequity of dome games on the stats. I used ESPN's "splits" of Home/Away to calculate QB stats for both their careers through this year, thinking away game stats are a better apples-to-apples comparison of performance. Manning's career QB rating on the road is 91.2, more than 8.2 points lower than his home rating. Brady's career QB rating is exactly the same 93.4 at home and away. In fact Brady's completion percentage and yards/attempt are actually better on the road than at Foxborough. The overall numbers do say Manning for stats, and everything else for Brady. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree? : This is like asking what's better, "Sex with the hottest chick in the bar or sex with the other hottest chick in the bar?"  Here would be a better Poll.  "If the Colts didn't have Manning, what other QB currently playing would you rather have?"  Most Colts fans would secretly pick Brady and I'm sure if the question was the other way around, "Who would the Pats take if they couldn't have Brady?"  Most Pats fans would take Peyton.  The only other QB to get a vote would be Brees.
    Posted by DFree93HOF[/QUOTE]

    Dfree...   allegiances aside, every fan would like the "best player" on another team, even if it is a hated team.  Who wouldn't want their team to be better?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]something i came across that further simplifies the issue: I was struck by how close Manning and Brady are statistically, but bothered by the inequity of dome games on the stats. I used ESPN's "splits" of Home/Away to calculate QB stats for both their careers through this year, thinking away game stats are a better apples-to-apples comparison of performance. Manning's career QB rating on the road is 91.2, more than 8.2 points lower than his home rating. Brady's career QB rating is exactly the same 93.4 at home and away. In fact Brady's completion percentage and yards/attempt are actually better on the road than at Foxborough. The overall numbers do say Manning for stats, and everything else for Brady. 
    Posted by choircontrarian[/QUOTE]

    Good split.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    Hey, Jules.. about your MVP comment...  there is no doubt Manning IS the Colts.  When you think of a player who meant the most to their team, Manning fits the bill to a T!  Brady, as good as he is, is also valuable to the Pats, but, no where near as Manning is to the Colts.  MVP has not necessarily meant "best player", but value to a team.  Colts would have been toast without Manning.  Consider the Pats still went 11 - 5 last year without Brady.  Could the Colts have such a season without Manning?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paulawht63. Show Paulawht63's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    Brady is so much better than Peyton
    Peyton got that game handed to him by the Officals all those BOGUS calls and KEVIN Faulk DID GET THAT FIRST DOWN they one that WAS NEVER REVIEWED  now you know why Patriots always play there Cause the COLTS PAY OF there officals
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from tompenny. Show tompenny's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    I love Brady because he's clutch when it counts and that's why he has the edge on who I want. You can't go wrong with either  but he's not a better passer than Manning. Manning makes insanely pinpoint long passes more often than Brady. Always has. Brady is incredible at precision short to intermediate route passing but Manning doesn't lack those either. Secondly Brady did break his 49 TD season by 1 but it took him 81 more pass attempts which is considerably less impressive since that  That is 2  games worth of passes. I am not knocking Brady but those are the facts.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

     I think Brady has a huge disadvantage playing in the mostly-inclement weather that comes with playing in the northeast come late November and December.

    Manning not only plays half of his games in domes, but also plays in the warmer AFC South.  Two out of his three road division games are in Jacksonville and Houston.  Manning is virtually guaranteed to play 9-10 games in perfect or near perfect conditions.

    Brady plays at least 3 or 4 games a year where weather has rendered the passing game almost negligible as part of the game plan.  Teams instead focus on running instead.

    I also think that the Colts built their team to win in those conditions, which is why they were a finesse team earlier in this decade.  As Manning, Wayne, and Clark became more experienced, they learned to deal with the conditions, which is when their team made the leap.

    I have no doubt that Brady would have done just as well statistically as Manning if he spent his career with Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark.

    I think Brady's greatest accomplishment was bringing his team within a Reche Caldwell drop of a 38-31 lead in the AFC Championship Game in January 2007.  To take a team that close to the Super Bowl with Reche Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney as your top two receivers was incredible, especially considering Gaffney wasn't even with the team in training camp.

    And with all due respect to Troy Brown, I never truly considered him a #1 receiver of the kind that forces defenses to game plan against him.  Deon Branch was the closest thing they had to a legitimate receiver, and he's been exposed up in Seattle as well.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE] I think Brady has a huge disadvantage playing in the mostly-inclement weather that comes with playing in the northeast come late November and December. Manning not only plays half of his games in domes, but also plays in the warmer AFC South.  Two out of his three road division games are in Jacksonville and Houston.  Manning is virtually guaranteed to play 9-10 games in perfect or near perfect conditions. Brady plays at least 3 or 4 games a year where weather has rendered the passing game almost negligible as part of the game plan.  Teams instead focus on running instead. I also think that the Colts built their team to win in those conditions, which is why they were a finesse team earlier in this decade.  As Manning, Wayne, and Clark became more experienced, they learned to deal with the conditions, which is when their team made the leap. I have no doubt that Brady would have done just as well statistically as Manning if he spent his career with Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark. I think Brady's greatest accomplishment was bringing his team within a Reche Caldwell drop of a 38-31 lead in the AFC Championship Game in January 2007.  To take a team that close to the Super Bowl with Reche Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney as your top two receivers was incredible, especially considering Gaffney wasn't even with the team in training camp. And with all due respect to Troy Brown, I never truly considered him a #1 receiver of the kind that forces defenses to game plan against him.  Deon Branch was the closest thing they had to a legitimate receiver, and he's been exposed up in Seattle as well.
    Posted by NickC1188[/QUOTE]

    Agree. Brown was clutch and an exemplary team player, but I don't think he was ever confused with a #1 receiver - not even by himself.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    choir, Enoch and all...  regardless of the difference in playing conditions, consider the approach each team had when building an offense.  Manning was picked #1 and was expected to be the MAN for the Colts and they built an offense around him.  The Colts did not design a balanced offense, it relied on passing to win and to overcome a fairly weak defense.

    Brady is a #199 pick, a back-up to Bledsoe.  It wasn't until the 2007 season did the Pats even pursue quality receiver tools for Brady.  In the interim years, the Pats counted on a running game supported by decent passing attack.  As this discussion string attests to, we can only surmise what Brady's stats would look like if he was the center of attention of the offense his entire career.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    The term MVP does not mean "the player who is most valuable to his team", or "the player who is most valuable to a team."  The AP gives out the award and has never defined the term.  The name of the award was changed from "Player of the year" to MVP in 1960.  Since it is impossible to know how a player or team would do with another player, or without a player it is pointless to argue it.  If the term MVP meant "the player who is most valuable to his team" it would probably be won by a great player on a bad team every year.  Since people like Chris Johnson, Steven Jackson, and Aaron Rodgers are not in the conversation it is not likely the meaning of the term.  Since the award almost always goes to the best player on the best team it probably means the MVP is meant to reckognize the best player in a given year.

    Second, arguing that Matt Cassel played as well as Brady is kind of dumb.  Since both QB's played with nearly the same offensive personnel in 2007 and 2008 it can easily be compared.
                                 Com %     YDS     TD    Int     Rt
    Brady 2007-             68.9        4806     50     8     117.4
    Cassel 2008              63.4        3693     21    11     89.4
    Brady 2009 (9 gm)     66.2        2739     19     6     100.6

    The Pats went from 16-0 and a trip to the SB to 11-5 and not making the playoffs.  It's pretty clear through 9 gms this season that Brady will blow away Cassel's 2008 numbers again.  The asumption that without Manning the Colts would not be competitive is just an opinion that is impossible to prove.  For reasons that the article in the thread explains there is no reason to believe that. 
    Some people want to believe that Brady is an average QB on a great team.  The numbers speak for themselves.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    the colts fans are very insecure about their QB. He as choked in the playoffs how many times. Brady has enjoyed far more success than Mannying and has put up far less stinkers in the playoffs. Colts fans know this deep down and it kills them
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CTLadyluvsPats. Show CTLadyluvsPats's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]Shocked me to hear that of the 20 HOF qbs polled by NBC before the game on sunday, all but 2 either picked peyton or abstained as the qb they would most want running their team. perhaps its envy or just pure stupidity. anyway, here are some facts from eei that back up what Brady would do if he switched places with peyton. and some other facts. Brady is great everywhere, in every situation and weather condition. Peyton simply has not been. specifically playing in indy, brady is: They scored 38 points at Indy in the 2003 regular season (a 38-34 win) They scored 34 points at Indy in the 2006 postseason (a 38-34 loss) They scored 34 points at Indy Sunday night (a 35-34 loss). the rest of the article: http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/patriots/kerry-byrne/2009/11/18/separating-facts-myths-when-it-comes-patriots?page=0,0
    Posted by choircontrarian[/QUOTE]

    I just wanted to say that I am far less impressed with a 'dome team' and that I hate the dome concept in general. Football is meant to be played outside in the elements, period. 

    Quite frankly, in our house we refer to these teams as "a p*ssy dome team."  I don't care if they have a retractable roof...if it can be covered then it's a damn dome.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]the colts fans are very insecure about their QB. He as choked in the playoffs how many times. Brady has enjoyed far more success than Mannying and has put up far less stinkers in the playoffs. Colts fans know this deep down and it kills them
    Posted by crono420[/QUOTE]manning is now 7-8 in his playoff career! that right here should exempt him from the greatest qb discussion when brady's name is mentioned. perhaps this year he can break .500!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]I wasn't the only one skewing stats: why would you only compare their first seven seasons?  Is it possible because that takes you right to Brady's career year, when his caeer stats would be the most skewed?  If you're going to be arbitrary, try seeing how they stack up after six?  Not close, huh? Anyway, as I thought I explained, I excluded their career years (in which Manning had a better QB rating than Brady), to make the point that Brady has only had one elite year, whereas Manning has had many.  However, (being willing to admit when I'm wrong) I was surprised that the numbers weren't more lopsided.  The differential in QB ratings only increases from 2 points or so to a little over 4.  Plus, Brady has a rating of over 100 this year, which indicates he's in the elite range again.  But one final parting shot.  Manning has three MVPs, and probably three other years you can argue that he was the best QB in the league.  Brady has 2007.  That's it.  No other year can you make any kind of argument that he was the best in the league.  Now, you're only as good as your most recent year, so I understand that many in the media gave him credit for being the best in the league throughout his injury year.  But this year, he's a notch below Manning, Brees, Favre, and Rodgers, and that's why the HOF QB poll is trending towards Manning...
    Posted by JulesWinfield[/QUOTE]k.. willing to go as far as sayg that PEYTON is the better, if not the greatest, regular season QB in the history of the NFL, hence his 3 mvp regular season awards! but unfortunately the game is played with the playoffs in mind. when combined, his ratings and rankings seriously drop!tom terrific is even more special come playoff time esp in  the championships and conference finals. combined, thats y manning really isnt in his league!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from choircontrarian. Show choircontrarian's posts

    Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?

    In Response to Re: Facts that if Brady played in Indy dome, his numbers would TOP Peyton's... Do you agree?:
    [QUOTE]I love Brady because he's clutch when it counts and that's why he has the edge on who I want. You can't go wrong with either  but he's not a better passer than Manning. Manning makes insanely pinpoint long passes more often than Brady. Always has. Brady is incredible at precision short to intermediate route passing but Manning doesn't lack those either. Secondly Brady did break his 49 TD season by 1 but it took him 81 more pass attempts which is considerably less impressive since that  That is 2  games worth of passes. I am not knocking Brady but those are the facts.
    Posted by tompenny[/QUOTE]had he played all his home games in a dome with an additional 2 in houston, making his total 10 plus the other 2 games or so played in dome/retractable roof places, he wold have had 60 TDs easy! 
     

Share