Final tune up observations

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
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    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
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    i was going to write the much longer list of players who actually had an Impact on this team and were not just camp bodies or backups, but wwhat's the point?

     

    Hey with 22 starters and a 45 man game day roster what would happen to all the talent we currentLy ha

    ve and have had in th epast if all those players worked out? We would have to cut a bunch of guys who would be labeled busts, right. It wouldn't matter of they were cut because our team is already good, fans on this board would complain even though it isn't feasible, actually impossible to keep them all. I for one love that BB leaves no stone unturned and isn't afraid to bring in competition at every level.

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    Everyone likes that True. Go on your merry way thinking this team has no holes, has not blown a massive amount of dollars in free agency busts and has been middle of the road in the draft. You can continue to point to the SB win 10 years ago, and the division championships at the expense of the lowly Jets. Some of us want more. SB's, and enjoy discussing how to go about that.

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    Ahh, the age old tactic of putting words in mouths. I say every team has holes, every team has weaknesses.  But if Asante could hold on to a pick, or WW could catch that ball, or the ref didnt call face guarding on Hobbs in the endzone then we would have 6 SB's in 13 years, and you guys would have nothing to complain about....or would you?

    [/QUOTE]

    1 year at a time True. This year, there are some perceived weaknesses on the team some of us are discussing. You are the one that pointed out the past 13 years. I simply said it has been 10 years since the last one. Close is great, but not good enough.

    are you saying this team doesn't have some issues at LB, DT and maybe OL and TE, or are you saying other teams have some issues as well? Which is it?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to digger0862's comment:
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    In response to bredbru's comment:
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    perennial playoff approach vs super bowls.

     

    what would one of the better gms in the league have done if brady fell in their lap?

     

    good coach. maybe one of the best.

     

    mediocre gm (for max super bowls)

     

    great gm for perennial playoff team.

     

     

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    Only one team can win a super bowl but many teams go all out to win them.

     

     

    Going all out does not guarantee anything except future mediocrity.

     

    You can't win a super bowl if you don't make the playoffs so being a perennial playoff team is a good thing.

     

    Where do you even get a better GM? I wouldn't know where to look. I guess I don't have the "eyes to see".

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    I don't think you can get a better GM. I do think this GM can get more help with personnel decisions, do a better job listening to his current staff with his draft and free agency decisions and not hold a grudge forever

    [/QUOTE]

    yes i will give you that and hiring better personnel evaluators.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thank you ATJ for answering our esteemed colleague from Deleware (ok I made that part up). 

    Murtl, I'd like to hang out with you 1 day and suck down a few beers. You remind me of my older brother, he's about as negative as it gets too, but a passionate fan.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Lol! I'd probably like that true, and you remind me of a friend of mine who is closer to your ultra positive spectrum...we could be crashing in a plane and he'd say, hey at least we'll be landing quicker.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to ATJ's comment:
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    In response to rkarp's comment:
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    In response to ATJ's comment:
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    In response to mthurl's comment:
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    I'm sorry to truechamp and captain Spock, but you aren't trying to win Super Bowls or receive GM of the year awards when you sign, trade and draft all this hot sweaty garbage...

    Jonathan Fanene
    Albert Heynesworth
    Trevor Scott
    Shaun Ellis
    Ron Brace
    Armstead
    Tommy Kelly
    Mike Wright
    Myron Pryor
    Tully Banta Cain
    Adalious Thomas
    Derrick Burgess
    Stallworth
    Gaffney
    Gonzalez
    Brandon Tate
    Price
    Ocho Cinco
    Lloyd
    Amendola
    Torry Holt
    Joey Galloway
    Jenkins
    Schiancoe
    Fells
    Jake Ballard
    Hernandez
    Leigh Bodden
    Shawn Springs
    Delta O’Neil
    Adrian Wilson
    Tavon Wilson
    Butler
    Wheatley
    Whilite
    Rasi Dowling
    McGowen
    Jon Lynch
    Steven Gregory
    Fred Taylor
    Joseph Addai
    Robert Gallery
    Leon Washington

    [/QUOTE]


    Man o man, is that a deficatious perspective.  You can point to any team in the NFL (including SB champs) who have that kind of list.  Why in the name of Vince Lombardi is the team contending every year and has more Super Bowl appearances since 2000 than any other team? 

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    ATJ, this list is of players brought in AFTER the SB's and can pointed to as to why this team has NOT won a SB in almost a decade. 

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    I am aware of that, rkarp.  My point is that many other teams including recent SB winners have similar lists.  I see the list as a red herring and nothing more.  Is someone on this forum going to suggest that BB batted a 1.000 during the 4 year period when the team won 3 SBs? 

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    And no one runs around saying those team's GMs didn't make mistakes, that's the difference, around here apparently our GM doesn't make mistakes. That list proves otherwise.

    I know other teams make mistakes, but we do too, and for some reason when it's brought up I am called spoiled and that it didn't happen. I am asked why we win so much, when in fact we haven't won squat in ten years. Why do win so much? Because we don't have Mark Sanchez as our quarterback, or Chad Henne, or Carson Palmer, or Matt Schaub. And we don't win Super Bowls because we brought in guys that are on that list - that is a fact. If this team had signed one pass rusher - one - instead of all that garbage, Eli Manning doesn't go untouched in SB 46 and we most likely win that game. Instead I'm supposed to be super excited and grateful that we made it that far despite beating Tim Tebow and needing a kicker to miss a field goal and a guy to drop a TD in an endzone, to get there.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ATJ's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I'm sorry to truechamp and captain Spock, but you aren't trying to win Super Bowls or receive GM of the year awards when you sign, trade and draft all this hot sweaty garbage...

    Jonathan Fanene
    Albert Heynesworth
    Trevor Scott
    Shaun Ellis
    Ron Brace
    Armstead
    Tommy Kelly
    Mike Wright
    Myron Pryor
    Tully Banta Cain
    Adalious Thomas
    Derrick Burgess
    Stallworth
    Gaffney
    Gonzalez
    Brandon Tate
    Price
    Ocho Cinco
    Lloyd
    Amendola
    Torry Holt
    Joey Galloway
    Jenkins
    Schiancoe
    Fells
    Jake Ballard
    Hernandez
    Leigh Bodden
    Shawn Springs
    Delta O’Neil
    Adrian Wilson
    Tavon Wilson
    Butler
    Wheatley
    Whilite
    Rasi Dowling
    McGowen
    Jon Lynch
    Steven Gregory
    Fred Taylor
    Joseph Addai
    Robert Gallery
    Leon Washington

    [/QUOTE]


    Man o man, is that a deficatious perspective.  You can point to any team in the NFL (including SB champs) who have that kind of list.  Why in the name of Vince Lombardi is the team contending every year and has more Super Bowl appearances since 2000 than any other team? 

    [/QUOTE]

    ATJ, this list is of players brought in AFTER the SB's and can pointed to as to why this team has NOT won a SB in almost a decade. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I am aware of that, rkarp.  My point is that many other teams including recent SB winners have similar lists.  I see the list as a red herring and nothing more.  Is someone on this forum going to suggest that BB batted a 1.000 during the 4 year period when the team won 3 SBs? 

    [/QUOTE]

    And no one runs around saying those team's GMs didn't make mistakes, that's the difference, around here apparently our GM doesn't make mistakes. That list proves otherwise.

    I know other teams make mistakes, but we do too, and for some reason when it's brought up I am called spoiled and that it didn't happen. I am asked why we win so much, when in fact we haven't won squat in ten years. Why do win so much? Because we don't have Mark Sanchez as our quarterback, or Chad Henne, or Carson Palmer, or Matt Schaub. And we don't win Super Bowls because we brought in guys that are on that list - that is a fact. If this team had signed one pass rusher - one - instead of all that garbage, Eli Manning doesn't go untouched in SB 46 and we most likely win that game. Instead I'm supposed to be super excited and grateful that we made it that far despite beating Tim Tebow and needing a kicker to miss a field goal and a guy to drop a TD in an endzone, to get there.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    BRAVO!  Truth

    Funny how people here are quick to bash other Gm's when they have a bad offense or defense or lose in the Super Bowl but having a horrific defense (because of bad players)  and losing 2 Super Bowls is just AOK and the gm is only human, but somehow better than the rest and is above criticism.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thank you ATJ for answering our esteemed colleague from Deleware (ok I made that part up). 

    Murtl, I'd like to hang out with you 1 day and suck down a few beers. You remind me of my older brother, he's about as negative as it gets too, but a passionate fan.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Lol! I'd probably like that true, and you remind me of a friend of mine who is closer to your ultra positive spectrum...we could be crashing in a plane and he'd say, hey at least we'll be landing quicker.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    This one is gonna come back to bite you good buddy.

    You just compared the N.E Patriots 8 afc championship games, 5 Superbowls, and the most wins in the league since BB took over, to a plane crashing...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thank you ATJ for answering our esteemed colleague from Deleware (ok I made that part up). 

    Murtl, I'd like to hang out with you 1 day and suck down a few beers. You remind me of my older brother, he's about as negative as it gets too, but a passionate fan.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Lol! I'd probably like that true, and you remind me of a friend of mine who is closer to your ultra positive spectrum...we could be crashing in a plane and he'd say, hey at least we'll be landing quicker.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    This one is gonna come back to bite you good buddy.

    You just compared the N.E Patriots 8 afc championship games, 5 Superbowls, and the most wins in the league since BB took over, to a plane crashing...

    [/QUOTE]


    No I just compared a plane crashing, to a plane crashing.

    And you know what? I'm happy as pie about those early years...the years we seemed to always make the right moves...the years we won Super Bowls. I remember those years well, almost any move we made seemed to work, plus there were guys like Law, McGinnest, Bruschi and Troy Brown already on the roster. Now? Hey I could paste the list again, but the fact remains it is very much what we brought in...that good enough? That make you happy? It doesn't for me, because I sat there thinking...what the hell are we doing? And then I'd go...all well, in Bill I trust. I don't do that anymore, and guess what? Turn on any radio and you'll hear that many others do not either. Now maybe here in Pink Patriot fantasy land we'll get some, but outside of this make believe happy spot, those numbers have dwindled. The guys on that list caused that.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    We saw the Gunts first team vs our 2nd, 3rd and 4th stringers so while I wouldn't say our OLine played amazing they were going against Jonathan Hankins and some solid DT's.  The best combination along the interior that I saw was a little later in the game and it was easy to spot; 67, 68 and 69 put together some good plays and got some push in the middle.  James White did not follow his blocks or do much of anything with it.  Conversely Barker, Devey, Stork and Fleming were pretty mediocre to bad.  

     

    Kline looked pretty good, especially in the screen and run game but got smoked by a pass rusher late when the game was on the line.  Halapio is the most impressive in the run game, he gets a surge and usually ends up double teamed or into the defensive backfield, Cave provided some good center play but has to work on his long snapping in shotgun, he was throwing some balls at Gyros ankles.  I think if we had seen more Gray and less White the running game would have looked better, especially early in the game.  Most important for the hand wringers regarding Mankins departure is know that Cannon, Wendell and Connolly weren't playing, those are the guys who will man the middle until these kids are ready.

     

    Beauharnis is easily our 4th best linebacker, I don't understand the criticism, he leads THE ENTIRE NFL in preseason tackles and has looked very solid, the reason we cut Anderson.

     

    Morris hopefully isn't hurt bad, he walked off on his own two legs so let's hope not because he was also flying around.

     

    Gyro played well but has to work on his touch to smaller receivers, he overthrew them all.  Dobson was our best player out there, Boyce doesn't know the playbook which has been a talent killer, White is ONLY a third down back at best.

     

    Moore played well at DT late in the game but didn't seem quick enough at end to shake an offensive tackle, Buchanon got pressure when he played, Bequette for all his detractors played very well last night, the guy plays on every special teams unit, that is why he is on the roster and Will Smith isn't.  The secondary played well, Browner is a thumper, Dennard if healthy starts every game opposite Revis unless we play a huge WR and BB puts Browner in to match up with him, Harmon played McCourty's free safety role tonight which left Nate Ebner at SS and he was very solid, Tavon Wilson also made some strong plays.  Swanson a back end corner played very well for a series late, had good coverage than had a strip and recovered the fumble, he may end up on the practice squad.

     

    This is a very good team, playing the Gunts starters to a stand still at half and only losing by a field goal with a bunch of no namers on the field by the 4th quarter is good enough for me.

    [/QUOTE]

    The one bad note on Kline was watching him get beat cleanly on an INSIDE pass rush move by a scrub DT...that simply cannot happen ever. He clearly did not have a good game but he'll be fine. The kid is a strong tough guy, a skilled technical lineman and a good teammate. The hardest part of a football team to put together is the offensive line and  the timing and familiarity it takes to perfect the running game. It will gel as the season moves forward. Even losing one man on a permanent basis (Mankins) takes weeks of coordination to overcome and produce previous results. 

    I was not impressed with the team's running game but that will improve. White needs to keep improving and I think he will and the O line's improving coordination will help him and the other backs. The kid sure can catch a football, that's for sure so he's a lock for major playing time this season.

    Dobson looked really good for someone just getting his "feet" wet (pun intended). He flashed the skills we were told he had when they drafted him. When he needed to get space on DB's he got it and nearly always seemed to get separation. I just hope his foot holds up.

    I did not think Boyce looked that bad but waiting until the last pre-season game to show hustle is weak for a veteran who should know better. After watching him be lackadaisical through this pre-season schedule and practices I will not be surprised to see him be cut. The kid has physical talent but you have to wonder where his cranium is with all the camp competition that has been happening with this team. This team's receivers have been pretty decent so far, not the NFL's best grouping, but if they stay healthy they can win this team a SB. Wright can sure catch the football - he's going to be a good pick-up.

    The TE position is weak if Gronk has hiccups this season and non existent when he's out, like now. Hopefully someone pops up on the waiver wire who can help because it's obvious that Wright really isn't a TE but a tall and strong WR with acceptable, not great,  speed.

    After a check of SI's top 40 draft prospects for 2015 it's clear that the nature of linebacking has evolved into pass coverage skills first and run stuffing second for interior LB's. None listed are more than 240 lbs. and most are in the 220-230 lb. range with great quickness and speed. Even OLB's for the 3-4 are light in comparison to, say, 5 years ago. Times, and the game, have changed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to mthurl's comment:
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    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
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    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thank you ATJ for answering our esteemed colleague from Deleware (ok I made that part up). 

    Murtl, I'd like to hang out with you 1 day and suck down a few beers. You remind me of my older brother, he's about as negative as it gets too, but a passionate fan.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Lol! I'd probably like that true, and you remind me of a friend of mine who is closer to your ultra positive spectrum...we could be crashing in a plane and he'd say, hey at least we'll be landing quicker.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    This one is gonna come back to bite you good buddy.

    You just compared the N.E Patriots 8 afc championship games, 5 Superbowls, and the most wins in the league since BB took over, to a plane crashing...

    [/QUOTE]


    No I just compared a plane crashing, to a plane crashing.

    And you know what? I'm happy as pie about those early years...the years we seemed to always make the right moves...the years we won Super Bowls. I remember those years well, almost any move we made seemed to work, plus there were guys like Law, McGinnest, Bruschi and Troy Brown already on the roster. Now? Hey I could paste the list again, but the fact remains it is very much what we brought in...that good enough? That make you happy? It doesn't for me, because I sat there thinking...what the hell are we doing? And then I'd go...all well, in Bill I trust. I don't do that anymore, and guess what? Turn on any radio and you'll hear that many others do not either. Now maybe here in Pink Patriot fantasy land we'll get some, but outside of this make believe happy spot, those numbers have dwindled. The guys on that list caused that.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    With all the players you listed we were 1 play away....1 play from winning 3 more championships.  So your point is what exactly, if BB had done something better, then WW would have held on to a tough catch,  or the ref wouldn't have called face guarding on Hobbs? We could have won the 3 SB's we were close to if only BB had got better players?

    Do you agree with rkarp that he wouldn't pick any GM in the league over BB?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to digger0862's comment:
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    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

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    Rkarp, the Central Committee will tolerate no negativity as all negativity has been determined to deviate from 

     

     

     

     

     

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    If we did not tolerate you, you would have already been exterminated.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Disappeared, I think is what they do . . . but it's only temporary.  Go ask Rusty . . . 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thank you ATJ for answering our esteemed colleague from Deleware (ok I made that part up). 

    Murtl, I'd like to hang out with you 1 day and suck down a few beers. You remind me of my older brother, he's about as negative as it gets too, but a passionate fan.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Lol! I'd probably like that true, and you remind me of a friend of mine who is closer to your ultra positive spectrum...we could be crashing in a plane and he'd say, hey at least we'll be landing quicker.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    This one is gonna come back to bite you good buddy.

    You just compared the N.E Patriots 8 afc championship games, 5 Superbowls, and the most wins in the league since BB took over, to a plane crashing...

    [/QUOTE]


    No I just compared a plane crashing, to a plane crashing.

    And you know what? I'm happy as pie about those early years...the years we seemed to always make the right moves...the years we won Super Bowls. I remember those years well, almost any move we made seemed to work, plus there were guys like Law, McGinnest, Bruschi and Troy Brown already on the roster. Now? Hey I could paste the list again, but the fact remains it is very much what we brought in...that good enough? That make you happy? It doesn't for me, because I sat there thinking...what the hell are we doing? And then I'd go...all well, in Bill I trust. I don't do that anymore, and guess what? Turn on any radio and you'll hear that many others do not either. Now maybe here in Pink Patriot fantasy land we'll get some, but outside of this make believe happy spot, those numbers have dwindled. The guys on that list caused that.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    With all the players you listed we were 1 play away....1 play from winning 3 more championships.  So your point is what exactly, if BB had done something better, then WW would have held on to a tough catch,  or the ref wouldn't have called face guarding on Hobbs? We could have won the 3 SB's we were close to if only BB had got better players?

    Do you agree with rkarp that he wouldn't pick any GM in the league over BB?

    [/QUOTE]

    My point is we wouldn't of been one play away from winning another Super Bowl. Simple. Instead a pass rush - provided by a pass rusher - would of held that 4th quarter lead...and then WE wouldn't have been one play away...they would have.

    This is football, when you lose by one play...you lose. The difference between those plays is better players. If we had one more guy we may of won that game, instead Eli Manning never was touched in that game. And there were other games like that too that we lost. The playoff game to the jets still hurts, we never touched Mark Sanchez...why is that? I'd have to say it was because our defense wasn't very good, how else can you explain Mark Sanchez playing like he was Joe Montana and never hitting the ground? I'd have to think better players would of prevented that. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    The 2001 team had so many holes it looked like swiss cheese.  99% of you moaning couldn't name a defensive lineman not named Seymour and with good reason, they were a patchwork of undersized, athleticism deprived journeymen, the linebackers were jags nobody else wanted, the corners after Ty Law starting with Otis Smith were slow, Joe Andruzzi couldn't get a job, Mike Compton was too old for Detroit, who else was on that line, yeah you don't even know, Antwoine Smith was considered damaged goods and washed up, none of our receivers had recognizable names, David Patten last played in the arena league… shall I go on?  That team stayed healthy, it wasn't deep at all.


    This is silly…  29 teams in the NFL wish they had our roster but we're the ones drinking coolade and wearing rose colored glasses?  You are what your record says you are.


    Again back to the root cause, either some posters here genuinely aren't Pat's fans but are pretending to be, some may even work for BostonGlobe, or the level of entitlement here is off the charts.  I happen to think it's a combination of both.


    It's not easy to win a Super Bowl, regardless of how easy Belichick made it look, that's where your confusion comes from.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thank you ATJ for answering our esteemed colleague from Deleware (ok I made that part up). 

    Murtl, I'd like to hang out with you 1 day and suck down a few beers. You remind me of my older brother, he's about as negative as it gets too, but a passionate fan.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Lol! I'd probably like that true, and you remind me of a friend of mine who is closer to your ultra positive spectrum...we could be crashing in a plane and he'd say, hey at least we'll be landing quicker.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    This one is gonna come back to bite you good buddy.

    You just compared the N.E Patriots 8 afc championship games, 5 Superbowls, and the most wins in the league since BB took over, to a plane crashing...

    [/QUOTE]


    No I just compared a plane crashing, to a plane crashing.

    And you know what? I'm happy as pie about those early years...the years we seemed to always make the right moves...the years we won Super Bowls. I remember those years well, almost any move we made seemed to work, plus there were guys like Law, McGinnest, Bruschi and Troy Brown already on the roster. Now? Hey I could paste the list again, but the fact remains it is very much what we brought in...that good enough? That make you happy? It doesn't for me, because I sat there thinking...what the hell are we doing? And then I'd go...all well, in Bill I trust. I don't do that anymore, and guess what? Turn on any radio and you'll hear that many others do not either. Now maybe here in Pink Patriot fantasy land we'll get some, but outside of this make believe happy spot, those numbers have dwindled. The guys on that list caused that.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    With all the players you listed we were 1 play away....1 play from winning 3 more championships.  So your point is what exactly, if BB had done something better, then WW would have held on to a tough catch,  or the ref wouldn't have called face guarding on Hobbs? We could have won the 3 SB's we were close to if only BB had got better players?

    Do you agree with rkarp that he wouldn't pick any GM in the league over BB?

    [/QUOTE]

    My point is we wouldn't of been one play away from winning another Super Bowl. Simple. Instead a pass rush - provided by a pass rusher - would of held that 4th quarter lead...and then WE wouldn't have been one play away...they would have.

    This is football, when you lose by one play...you lose. The difference between those plays is better players. If we had one more guy we may of won that game, instead Eli Manning never was touched in that game. And there were other games like that too that we lost. The playoff game to the jets still hurts, we never touched Mark Sanchez...why is that? I'd have to say it was because our defense wasn't very good, how else can you explain Mark Sanchez playing like he was Joe Montana and never hitting the ground? I'd have to think better players would of prevented that. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The three wins were by one play.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Section136. Show Section136's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The 2001 team had so many holes it looked like swiss cheese.  99% of you moaning couldn't name a defensive lineman not named Seymour and with good reason, they were a patchwork of undersized, athleticism deprived journeymen, the linebackers were jags nobody else wanted, the corners after Ty Law starting with Otis Smith were slow, Joe Andruzzi couldn't get a job, Mike Compton was too old for Detroit, who else was on that line, yeah you don't even know, Antwoine Smith was considered damaged goods and washed up, none of our receivers had recognizable names, David Patten last played in the arena league… shall I go on?  That team stayed healthy, it wasn't deep at all.

    This is silly…  29 teams in the NFL wish they had our roster but we're the ones drinking coo lade and wearing rose colored glasses?  You are what your record says you are.

    Again back to the root cause, either some posters here genuinely aren't Pat's fans but are pretending to be, some may even work for BostonGlobe, or the level of entitlement here is off the charts.  I happen to think it's a combination of both.

    It's not easy to win a Super Bowl, regardless of how easy Belichick made it look, that's where your confusion comes from.

    [/QUOTE]

    Now that was a fun team to root for.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    You can't take much from the NYG game.

    Guys like Chris Baker won't be on the team, Boyce won't be a primary target, etc.

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    Let me see if I'm following this thread correctly.  Every team that doesn't win the SB has a bad GM?  Had Assante caught the ball BB would be a good GM.  Had that Welker catch gone well BB would be a good GM.  Those 2 plays might have been the difference between winning and losing the last 2 SB's we were in.  Those 2 plays are the difference between BB being a good GM and being a terrible GM?  Do I have that right?  I guess the fact we were even there means nothing.  The Giants have won some recent SB's.  Now ask me if I would rather be a fan of a team like them instead of the Pats....NO!


    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    "the linebackers were jags nobody else wanted"

    Soon to be Hall of Famer and 4th overall pick in 1994 - Willie McGinest

    2nd round pick in 1995 and great run stuffer - Ted Johnson

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "the linebackers were jags nobody else wanted"

    Soon to be Hall of Famer and 4th overall pick in 1994 - Willie McGinest

    2nd round pick in 1995 and great run stuffer - Ted Johnson

    [/QUOTE]

    And Roman Phifer, born in 1968, you do the math.

    Or Ted Bruschi who played defensive end at Arizona and was transformed to a LB. 

    Or what about Mike Vrabel who played four years in Pittsburgh and didn't start a single game.... man our GM sucks.

    We weren't deep, we didn't have All Stars at every position, we had guys that nobody wanted and made them play like All Pros.  Health is the only thing that separated those teams from now, along with some philosophical differences which seemed to have worked themselves out with the return of McDaniel's.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to Section136's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mthurl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Thank you ATJ for answering our esteemed colleague from Deleware (ok I made that part up). 

    Murtl, I'd like to hang out with you 1 day and suck down a few beers. You remind me of my older brother, he's about as negative as it gets too, but a passionate fan.

    [object HTMLDivElement]

    [/QUOTE]


    Lol! I'd probably like that true, and you remind me of a friend of mine who is closer to your ultra positive spectrum...we could be crashing in a plane and he'd say, hey at least we'll be landing quicker.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    This one is gonna come back to bite you good buddy.

    You just compared the N.E Patriots 8 afc championship games, 5 Superbowls, and the most wins in the league since BB took over, to a plane crashing...

    [/QUOTE]


    No I just compared a plane crashing, to a plane crashing.

    And you know what? I'm happy as pie about those early years...the years we seemed to always make the right moves...the years we won Super Bowls. I remember those years well, almost any move we made seemed to work, plus there were guys like Law, McGinnest, Bruschi and Troy Brown already on the roster. Now? Hey I could paste the list again, but the fact remains it is very much what we brought in...that good enough? That make you happy? It doesn't for me, because I sat there thinking...what the hell are we doing? And then I'd go...all well, in Bill I trust. I don't do that anymore, and guess what? Turn on any radio and you'll hear that many others do not either. Now maybe here in Pink Patriot fantasy land we'll get some, but outside of this make believe happy spot, those numbers have dwindled. The guys on that list caused that.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

    With all the players you listed we were 1 play away....1 play from winning 3 more championships.  So your point is what exactly, if BB had done something better, then WW would have held on to a tough catch,  or the ref wouldn't have called face guarding on Hobbs? We could have won the 3 SB's we were close to if only BB had got better players?

    Do you agree with rkarp that he wouldn't pick any GM in the league over BB?

    [/QUOTE]

    My point is we wouldn't of been one play away from winning another Super Bowl. Simple. Instead a pass rush - provided by a pass rusher - would of held that 4th quarter lead...and then WE wouldn't have been one play away...they would have.

    This is football, when you lose by one play...you lose. The difference between those plays is better players. If we had one more guy we may of won that game, instead Eli Manning never was touched in that game. And there were other games like that too that we lost. The playoff game to the jets still hurts, we never touched Mark Sanchez...why is that? I'd have to say it was because our defense wasn't very good, how else can you explain Mark Sanchez playing like he was Joe Montana and never hitting the ground? I'd have to think better players would of prevented that. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The three wins were by one play.

    [/QUOTE]

    exactly. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bredbru. Show bredbru's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to carawaydj's comment:


    Let me see if I'm following this thread correctly.  Every team that doesn't win the SB has a bad GM?  Had Assante caught the ball BB would be a good GM.  Had that Welker catch gone well BB would be a good GM.  Those 2 plays might have been the difference between winning and losing the last 2 SB's we were in.  Those 2 plays are the difference between BB being a good GM and being a terrible GM?  Do I have that right?  I guess the fact we were even there means nothing.  The Giants have won some recent SB's.  Now ask me if I would rather be a fan of a team like them instead of the Pats....NO!



    This is what being level-headed sounds like.




    always a thin line. but read. didnt need to be as thin with a few better draft picks, personnel philosophy and decisions, more talented coaches chosen, different defensive philosophies, less stubbornness / more growth in bb.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "the linebackers were jags nobody else wanted"

    Soon to be Hall of Famer and 4th overall pick in 1994 - Willie McGinest

    2nd round pick in 1995 and great run stuffer - Ted Johnson

    [/QUOTE]

    And Roman Phifer, born in 1968, you do the math.

    Or Ted Bruschi who played defensive end at Arizona and was transformed to a LB. 

    Or what about Mike Vrabel who played four years in Pittsburgh and didn't start a single game.... man our GM sucks.

    We weren't deep, we didn't have All Stars at every position, we had guys that nobody wanted and made them play like All Pros.  Health is the only thing that separated those teams from now, along with some philosophical differences which seemed to have worked themselves out with the return of McDaniel's.

    [/QUOTE]


    [object HTMLDivElement]

     

    Your kidding right?

    There was considerable talent in 2001. Much more than our present day Pats.

    So which line backers will we all be fondly remembering 15 years from now from the 2011 team?

    How about the DB's?.

    RB's?

    Receivers?

    Sorry, I don't see any one even resembling any Browns, Brus, Faulks, Willies, izzos, laws, lights, milloys seymours, vrabels, phifers, johnson, ect... ect.. ect  on that team or any team after 2007 when we actually had some decent talent.

    Now 2011, That's a group that nobody wanted and still don't, other than a handful.

    Hell, bb didn't even want them. All that talent, haha.  Where are the majority of them now?

    Quit trying to give the credit on those teams to the coaching.  I know that's what your doing. It's BS.

    Even the Great BB couldn't make all that talent on the 2011 team better than 31st on D.

    Truth is there was no talent to coach.  Just a bunch of junk and an offense that did it's best to hide that junk.

    Fail

    Oh and Phifer played in 16 games despite his advanced age of 33.  I'd take a 33 year old that plays over some 23 yr old that can't stay healthy, any day.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    Ok, gents, kindly show me a post where I have:


    1) Said BB is infallible;


    2) Criticized any other team's GM;


    Seriously, kindly show me any post wherein I've even alluded to either.


    mthurl, calling a cheeseburger a caesar salad doesn't make it one.  Similarly, labeling your opinion a 'fact' doesn't make it one.


    Yes, Brady may very well be the GOAT but no QB can do it alone.


    Criticism where criticism is warranted is one thing.   I don't see what I've been reading as that; I see it as a broad brush indictment.  You can't seriously believe that BB is as poor a GM as you have been posting.


    I offer the following yet again:


    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/decade-the-making-the-ultimate-nfl-draft-grades/2419/" rel="nofollow">http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/decade-the-making-the-ultimate-nfl-draft-grades/2419/


    In my OPINION, the Pats are one of the best (if not the best) of the 32 NFL franchises.  Since there are those who clearly disagree the better NFL franchises are whichin your opinion?  (Oh, I ask that you provide your criteria for making your assessment.)

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to carawaydj's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Let me see if I'm following this thread correctly.  Every team that doesn't win the SB has a bad GM?  Had Assante caught the ball BB would be a good GM.  Had that Welker catch gone well BB would be a good GM.  Those 2 plays might have been the difference between winning and losing the last 2 SB's we were in.  Those 2 plays are the difference between BB being a good GM and being a terrible GM?  Do I have that right?  I guess the fact we were even there means nothing.  The Giants have won some recent SB's.  Now ask me if I would rather be a fan of a team like them instead of the Pats....NO!


    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

    [/QUOTE]

    Pretty much sums it up.  Apparently the difference between 'great' and 'suck' is but one play.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

    In response to carawaydj's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Let me see if I'm following this thread correctly.  Every team that doesn't win the SB has a bad GM?  Had Assante caught the ball BB would be a good GM.  Had that Welker catch gone well BB would be a good GM.  Those 2 plays might have been the difference between winning and losing the last 2 SB's we were in.  Those 2 plays are the difference between BB being a good GM and being a terrible GM?  Do I have that right?  I guess the fact we were even there means nothing.  The Giants have won some recent SB's.  Now ask me if I would rather be a fan of a team like them instead of the Pats....NO!


    This is what being level-headed sounds like.

    [/QUOTE]

    No, No, No!!!

    The Pats didn't dominate the opponent regardless of the fact the other team trained as hard and prepared as long and hard. Shame on the patriots for letting it come down to one play or perhaps a series of plays. Games in the NFL should never be close… the better team should always dominate or their GM/Coach/QB SVCKS. There should never be close games… especially in the playoffs where the talent and margin for error is razor thin. Close games pffffft.

    Well , thats what I've been told anyway. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Final tune up observations

     


    I haven't read all the posts, but why are people attacking Rkarp for giving reasonable assessments of the talent on the team?  Do you guys seriously think BB himself doesn't look at the team with a critical eye --- probably more critical than you and I would ever look at it?  You don't become great by being a pom-pom girl.  You become great by honestly assessing your strengths and weaknesses and working tirelessly to increase the former and decrease the latter. I'm sure Belichick himself has a bunch of concerns about his interior O line right now.  He didn't let Mankins go because he was convinced Kline (or whoever) was a better left guard.  He let Mankins go because he knew Mankins' contract wasn't going to allow the Pats to sign other players they want to sign.  I'm sure BB wasn't completely comfortable letting Mankins go.  From what I read, they tried to renegotiate the contract several times, and I'm sure keeping Mankins at a lower cost was BB's first choice.  I'm sure when BB evaluated the trade he was very concerned about what it might do to the O line.  In the end, he decided that the positives outweighed the negatives and made a gutsy call. But I'm sure BB's middle name isn't Pollyanna, and I'm sure he himself is well aware of the risk he took on.  There's no reason we can't see the risk as well.  It's not being critical of BB's decision--it's just honestly acknowledging that with most upsides also come downsides.  The downside of the Mankins trade is that it may weaken an interior O line that nearly all of us believed was already a bit weak.  The upside is that it may help us sign McCourty and maybe even Revis, get us a potentially decent move TE/big WR, and give us a little more ammunition in next year's draft.  The reality, though, is that both the upside and downside are there . . . and all the pleated skirts and bobby socks in the world can't change that.  


     


     


     

     
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