Finally

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Finally

    Personally I'm fine with what Kraft said today, he doesn't have to tell people exactly what they knew about this player, just how disappointed and upset he is in this happening. That's what he did.

    I think they knew more about his guy than they are letting on, but not to the extent the conspiracy theorists think - Kraft and the pats wouldn't give 41 million to a guy that was as bad a dude as Hernandez appears to be. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to BostonSportsFan111's comment:

    And there are plenty of NFL players who smoke marijuana and hang out with shady friends who don’t commit murder. 



    This is what any rational person has been saying all along.  A lot of NFL players are not boy scouts.  Hell a lot of people in the world are not boy scouts.  Most of them don't commit murder though.  This isn't "Minority Report".  You can't predict murder no matter how much the MMQBs would like to pretend you can.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    Yeah, the 4 of you guys are right. The rest of us in the moral majority and the 2000 people that returned the jerseys are simply looking to criticize Kraft and they are aligned with me, ESPN in the anti BB agenda. 

    It is shocking that the 4 of you are naive enough to think the Gators/Meyer knew nothing and said nothing to BB. 

    it is equally shocking that the 4 of you feel the Pats don't need to say anything to their fans, their sponsors or the community in general about the criminal behavior of some one in their employ.

     

     



    IMO, I'm sure BB and Kraft knew of Hernandez' marijuana use. Since it was so highly publicized, it's almost impossible for them NOT to know of that history.  That being said, I'm pretty sure that Kraft and BB does NOT have a crystal ball and knew that Hernandez was going to commit these alleged crimes.

     

    However, Kraft's statement was a disappointment because it was strictly damage control trying to protect the Kraft/Patriot branding. This might be evidenced by the Patriots' jersey swap....just a PR ploy for goodwill. I don't believe that the jersey swap, however, means that all those people share your view. It just means that there was a chance at a "free" jersey.  

     

    If i had a chance to swap my Welker jersey for a jersey of a current player...I'd do it in a heartbeat...and that has zero to do w/ politics/PR/viewpoints

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:

    Why no comment. AH is garbage. Kraft made an appropriate comment.

     

    My comment is lets hang AH from a chestnut tree in the Boston Public Gardens after waiting 30 minutes to draw a crowd!!!



    because the way I read it....seems like it was a PR ploy and that Kraft implied that he knew nothing and that Hernadez "duped" Kraft/Patriots.  I'm not saying that the Patriots are responsible for Hernandez whatsoever.

    I didn't think any comment was appropriate because the Patriots don't have to explain what they do or don't know. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    I'm still trying to figure out what Rkarp really wants here. You got your silly statement from the Pats, yet you still act like it isn't good enough.

    Bottom line is that the statement from Kraft didn't change anything. It's what you said you wanted, but somehow, you (still) aren't satisfied.

    Why is it so hard for you to accept that a few very smart people got burned here? Do you have to play the blame game in every aspect of your life? It's painfully obvious that you want to see more people fall for this mistake made by AH.

    You seriously act like Felger. No matter what happens in this town for sports, you view and point out the negative side, and continue to harp on it. Almost like you have a need for negativity. Probably just the way you're built.

    I honestly can't even comprehend how someone goes through life always looking at the glass as half empty.....how can one ever truly be happy living like that? I'm convinced that some people are only happy when they're miserable....if that makes any sense...

     



    Why can't you figure it out, since I have stated what I want and expect repeatedly.

    What I want from Kraft, the NFLPA and the NFL is for them to say they made a terrible mistake having some one like this in their employ, and being so naive to what his criminal activity was. I want them to say that they in a joint effort are working on making sure this does not happen again. It would be nice for the league to announce harsher suspensions and life time bans for domestic abuses, DUI's and firearm issues. PED's and general drugs should also be subject to stricter penalty. Every NFL contract should have a morality clause that is mandatory, not a team option. 

    It is time to take out the trash in the NFL, which is what Goodell was hired for. The League is turning into an embarrassment, and I speak for every owner, and most likely 95% off the players. The NFL would be fine taking a hard line stand on that 5%.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to digger0862's comment:

    rkarp works with the media. Enough said.



    What does that have to do with anything? Does that mean I cannot have an opinion and feelings on the issue? Can only media comment on what is the right thing to do? 

    I have commented as a fan of the Pats, the NFL, a parent and a season ticket holder who has supported these players for over 20 years. 

    I have stated repeatedly, I understand you, and many others simply don't care one way or another. But I don't understand how you cannot comprehend that there is another side that includes people like myself who are simply sick of the DUI's, domestic abuses, drugs, weapons and now murders. Are you so closed minded that you don't comprehend that there is a large part of the population who thinks like I do? 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CatfishHunter. Show CatfishHunter's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    The League is turning into an embarrassment, and I speak for every owner, and most likely 95% off the players.



    So, you are above Goodell?   Are you the Grand Poobah?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    What does that have to do with anything? Does that mean I cannot have an opinion and feelings on the issue? Can only media comment on what is the right thing to do? 

    I have commented as a fan of the Pats, the NFL, a parent and a season ticket holder who has supported these players for over 20 years. 

    I have stated repeatedly, I understand you, and many others simply don't care one way or another. But I don't understand how you cannot comprehend that there is another side that includes people like myself who are simply sick of the DUI's, domestic abuses, drugs, weapons and now murders. Are you so closed minded that you don't comprehend that there is a large part of the population who thinks like I do?


    The media sensationalizes, which is what you are doing. But you're right, I was piling on. Nobody likes crime. But what can you do about it? I have never been to jail and neither have any of my children. That's all I can do. There is crime in all walks of life, not just the NFL. I believe the NFL and Mr. Kraft are doing all they can do as well.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtuinila. Show rtuinila's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Saying nothing IMO spoke volumes that the Pats knew something. By saying that they did not, they close the door on all of the speculation....not that I believe him. I fully believe Meyer was very forthcoming with BB on who and what they were drafting....and it wasn't just " he smokes some pot in his free time".

    Lets face it, Kraft couldn't say " we were warned this was a very bad guy, but we drafted him anyways", nor could he say " the NFL had a file on this guy 2 inches thick, and 17 teams had him off the board, but we tried to outsmart everyone"....could he?

    Also, reading between the lines, and hearing whispers from numerous people, the Pats are expecting legal issues with the monies not paid out to Hern. 

     




    Huh?

     

    By saying they knew nothing they open it very wide for someone to come forward to produce evidence to the contrary.   You've stated very clearly here that you don't believe Kraft.  You think he is lying.   He could have said there "wasn't anything that convinced us not to pick him".  He went much further.  He said they knew nothing else.   From a public relations standpoint (if not a legal one) can you not see how embarrassing this could become if it is learned that Kraft did know more?

    I'm starting to feel you have some personal issue with Kraft that is clouding your opinion.

    [/QUOTE]

    RKarp is a jets fan posing as a Pats fan,  of course he has a vendetta against all things Pats.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Finally

    I wasn't going to comment further but I have a pretty wide circle of friends, relatives and acquaintances who are Pats fans and no one I have ever spoken to about this incident has expressed any interest in a public statement from anyone in the Pats organization.  Not saying that is conclusive, merely saying that I wouldn't be surprised if that were pretty much the case throughout Pats nation.  In fact, the only corner from which I've heard any level of interest in a public statement is the media.  Pretty obvious, at least to me, why that would be - makes for great print and broadcast fodder. 

    A demand for a public statement that amounts to a group NLF mea kulpa is simply silly in my opinion. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to rtuinila's comment:

    In response to CatfishHunter's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Saying nothing IMO spoke volumes that the Pats knew something. By saying that they did not, they close the door on all of the speculation....not that I believe him. I fully believe Meyer was very forthcoming with BB on who and what they were drafting....and it wasn't just " he smokes some pot in his free time".

    Lets face it, Kraft couldn't say " we were warned this was a very bad guy, but we drafted him anyways", nor could he say " the NFL had a file on this guy 2 inches thick, and 17 teams had him off the board, but we tried to outsmart everyone"....could he?

    Also, reading between the lines, and hearing whispers from numerous people, the Pats are expecting legal issues with the monies not paid out to Hern. 

     

     




    Huh?

     

     

    By saying they knew nothing they open it very wide for someone to come forward to produce evidence to the contrary.   You've stated very clearly here that you don't believe Kraft.  You think he is lying.   He could have said there "wasn't anything that convinced us not to pick him".  He went much further.  He said they knew nothing else.   From a public relations standpoint (if not a legal one) can you not see how embarrassing this could become if it is learned that Kraft did know more?

    I'm starting to feel you have some personal issue with Kraft that is clouding your opinion.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    RKarp is a jets fan posing as a Pats fan,  of course he has a vendetta against all things Pats.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This is not an issue that is all things Pats. It is an NFL issue. Doesn't matter what team, or even the player. There is about 5% of the player population that does not belong in the NFL or in the general society. They belong in prison. It is time for the NFL to address this....

    I expect Rusty the dope to try and turn this into a trolling issue. I am surprised he has not turned it into Brady's fault. 

    I am disappointed, but not shocked, that there are a handful of you that simply do not care, and don't mind what is going on in the NFL. For the most part, Stern has been able to cleanup the NBA. Ditto Selig other than the PED issues. Time for Goodell to keep up, and time for the owners to lead this demand for a clean up. Hern and the Pats are the lead story in an off season of horror stories. But itis not a Pats issue, it is an NFL issue. 

    Personally, I was disappointed that it took so long for Kraft to say something. I have subsequently learned the team has been wanting to, but has kept silent for legal concerns. I stand corrected on this, but it does not excuse some of the opinions here on the board of some posters feeling this is a nonissue, or an anti Pats issue.

    Like I said, I expected that opinion from the narcistic, egocentric, holier than thou moron known as Rusty. But where is every one else back bone? 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    I'm still trying to figure out what Rkarp really wants here. You got your silly statement from the Pats, yet you still act like it isn't good enough.

    Bottom line is that the statement from Kraft didn't change anything. It's what you said you wanted, but somehow, you (still) aren't satisfied.

    Why is it so hard for you to accept that a few very smart people got burned here? Do you have to play the blame game in every aspect of your life? It's painfully obvious that you want to see more people fall for this mistake made by AH.

    You seriously act like Felger. No matter what happens in this town for sports, you view and point out the negative side, and continue to harp on it. Almost like you have a need for negativity. Probably just the way you're built.

    I honestly can't even comprehend how someone goes through life always looking at the glass as half empty.....how can one ever truly be happy living like that? I'm convinced that some people are only happy when they're miserable....if that makes any sense...

     

     

     



    Why can't you figure it out, since I have stated what I want and expect repeatedly.

     

     

    What I want from Kraft, the NFLPA and the NFL is for them to say they made a terrible mistake having some one like this in their employ, and being so naive to what his criminal activity was. I want them to say that they in a joint effort are working on making sure this does not happen again. It would be nice for the league to announce harsher suspensions and life time bans for domestic abuses, DUI's and firearm issues. PED's and general drugs should also be subject to stricter penalty. Every NFL contract should have a morality clause that is mandatory, not a team option. 

    It is time to take out the trash in the NFL, which is what Goodell was hired for. The League is turning into an embarrassment, and I speak for every owner, and most likely 95% off the players. The NFL would be fine taking a hard line stand on that 5%.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Have the Browns done it with their LB they released? Panthers with Rae Carruth?  Vick, convicted down in Atlanta?

    They have not, and this is why this issue is an NFL problem, not a Pats problem. 

    Where is your outrage for Ray Lewis all these years and what Baltimore said about him? Have the Bills or 49ers ever put out a retroactive statement about OJ Simpson? 

    I don't get your BB-esque obsession with Lewis? The media attention and outrage against Lewis was 100 times that of Hernandez

     

    The league isn't turning into an embarrassment at all.  These rash of arrests lately are a coincidence.  That's all it is.  That is not to say there insn't a problem brewing at the NCAA level, though. That's your source. As much as I don't like Goodell and his ridiculous PC behavior and arbitrary management as a failed commisioner (Bring back Tagliabue!), this isn't on him. The league needs to hammer the NCAA and work with elected officials to cut this stuff off at the pass before it can fester.

    I don't believe in coincidence. Leaving things to chance are for losers. Billionaire owners don't let their brand image dangle by chance or coincidence in the hands of a few dopes and thugs. They nip it in the bud before it becomes an epidemic.

    The Millennial Generation is infamous for entitlements and outlandish expectations. It's a bad combo which is apparently increasing when they don't get slapped at the college level.  Big problem.

    The NCAA is out for one thing, the NCAA. The NFL needs to be proactive on this, not wait on a corrupt organization like the NCAA todo the right thing

    Sandusky, Hernandez, anyone else who commits felonies, they're all developing these apparent tendencies of entitlement at the NCAA level, well before they reach the NFL.  The NCAA, the football programs at the university level, especially the taxpayer supported state universities, all for the glorious dollar for arranged bowl games, is to blame.  It's why they hide, manipulate or cover for transgressions.

    You, as usual, are transposing where the blame our "outrage" goes. Do you get this angry when another human in another walk of life, say an insurance salesman, kills his wife? You should because there is no difference.

    I get angry if a salesman kills his wife after the police have been to his home 2-3 times for domestic abuse. My anger is at the police force for not recognizing the situation. Same as the Pats for not recognizing

    Crap happens, this is just more high profile. You are the most gullible and naive 50 something I've (or anyone here has) come across.

    I am missing how gullible comes into the equation? If Anything the Pats were gullible for believing in a two faced bipolar liar that was capable of pulling the trigger on another human being (apparently 5-6 other human beings). With the reams of psychological testing available, and the first hand knowledge and friendship coming from Meyer, and the information that his team mates, it is shocking that the Pats are in this position. You conveniently gloss over the fact that 17 teams took him off the board, including your good friend and mentor, Polian. 

    If you do have kids, I feel sorry for them. Their dad isn't very bright.

    my kids do very well thank you. Both very bright, caring, and a positive to society. Thankfully a head case such as yourself is not in a position of being a father

    [/QUOTE]


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tanbass. Show tanbass's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    This is not an issue that is all things Pats. It is an NFL issue. Doesn't matter what team, or even the player. There is about 5% of the player population that does not belong in the NFL or in the general society. They belong in prison. It is time for the NFL to address this....

     

    I expect Rusty the dope to try and turn this into a trolling issue. I am surprised he has not turned it into Brady's fault. 

    I am disappointed, but not shocked, that there are a handful of you that simply do not care, and don't mind what is going on in the NFL. For the most part, Stern has been able to cleanup the NBA. Ditto Selig other than the PED issues. Time for Goodell to keep up, and time for the owners to lead this demand for a clean up. Hern and the Pats are the lead story in an off season of horror stories. But itis not a Pats issue, it is an NFL issue. 

    Personally, I was disappointed that it took so long for Kraft to say something. I have subsequently learned the team has been wanting to, but has kept silent for legal concerns. I stand corrected on this, but it does not excuse some of the opinions here on the board of some posters feeling this is a nonissue, or an anti Pats issue.

    Like I said, I expected that opinion from the narcistic, egocentric, holier than thou moron known as Rusty. But where is every one else back bone? 



    So the NBA & MLB are all cleaned up huh? Wow...just wow.

    And it takes back bone to sit here and whine about getting a useless statement? Thanks for enlightning all of us!! I'll be sure to be more concerned next time.

    The Pats did the right thing...they kicked his sorry butt to the curb....end of story. Then they went beyond the call for the needy fans like yourself and provided a statement that changed nothing.

    Just because the Pats made a mistake, doesn't mean they are responsible for cleaning up the league. Kraft admitted they made a mistake, and came right out and said they are looking to fix the process (all what you wanted).....but here you are still complaining. Shocking.....

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TSWFAN. Show TSWFAN's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to anonymis' comment:

    In response to TSWFAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Why no comment. AH is garbage. Kraft made an appropriate comment.

     

    My comment is lets hang AH from a chestnut tree in the Boston Public Gardens after waiting 30 minutes to draw a crowd!!!

     



    because the way I read it....seems like it was a PR ploy and that Kraft implied that he knew nothing and that Hernadez "duped" Kraft/Patriots.  I'm not saying that the Patriots are responsible for Hernandez whatsoever.

     

    I didn't think any comment was appropriate because the Patriots don't have to explain what they do or don't know. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Good point.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Finally

     

    I think banning someone from employment for life because they had a firearms violation or a DUI conviction is a bit extreme.  I'm not saying these offenses aren't serious, but I think it's a bad precedent to encourage employers to deny employment to anyone who has ever done anything wrong.  A lot of people would be permanently out of work if this approach were adopted more broadly in society. 

     

    Rkarp, you say about 5% of the NFL population should be in prison (that's about 100 current players).  If so, that's a matter for the legal system, not their employers.  I suspect, however, that if they really deserved to be in prison, they'd be there.  Again, it's the courts that make that decision, not employers. 


    If someone isn't in prison, should employers deny them employment because they had a violation in the past?  In some cases maybe (you don't want to hire sex offenders in a day care center for instance), but in all cases?  That just seems undesireable to me. The fact that someone had a DUI conviction two or three years ago does not seem to justify denying him employment in his chosen field for ever. 

     

    I also think the NFL is in the business of bringing great athletes to the field.  That's what we watch and why we watch.  Personally, I'm not too concerned if some of these athletes aren't perfect persons, and I think it's a little naive to expect them all to be paragons of moral rectitude.  Sure, I don't want murderers to be playing (they really should be locked up in prison as I believe Aaron Hernandez will be), but some guy who smoked pot in college or once got in a bar fight?  As far as I'm concerned, those guys should play if they are good football players and aren't currently in trouble. 

     

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to tanbass' comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    This is not an issue that is all things Pats. It is an NFL issue. Doesn't matter what team, or even the player. There is about 5% of the player population that does not belong in the NFL or in the general society. They belong in prison. It is time for the NFL to address this....

     

    I expect Rusty the dope to try and turn this into a trolling issue. I am surprised he has not turned it into Brady's fault. 

    I am disappointed, but not shocked, that there are a handful of you that simply do not care, and don't mind what is going on in the NFL. For the most part, Stern has been able to cleanup the NBA. Ditto Selig other than the PED issues. Time for Goodell to keep up, and time for the owners to lead this demand for a clean up. Hern and the Pats are the lead story in an off season of horror stories. But itis not a Pats issue, it is an NFL issue. 

    Personally, I was disappointed that it took so long for Kraft to say something. I have subsequently learned the team has been wanting to, but has kept silent for legal concerns. I stand corrected on this, but it does not excuse some of the opinions here on the board of some posters feeling this is a nonissue, or an anti Pats issue.

    Like I said, I expected that opinion from the narcistic, egocentric, holier than thou moron known as Rusty. But where is every one else back bone? 

     



    So the NBA & MLB are all cleaned up huh? Wow...just wow.

     

    And it takes back bone to sit here and whine about getting a useless statement? Thanks for enlightning all of us!! I'll be sure to be more concerned next time.

    The Pats did the right thing...they kicked his sorry butt to the curb....end of story. Then they went beyond the call for the needy fans like yourself and provided a statement that changed nothing.

    Just because the Pats made a mistake, doesn't mean they are responsible for cleaning up the league. Kraft admitted they made a mistake, and came right out and said they are looking to fix the process (all what you wanted).....but here you are still complaining. Shocking.....

    [/QUOTE]

    This is the crux of where we dIsagree. The owners own the league. Goodell works for them as the care taker. It is up to the owners to clean up the league, and direct Goodell, and give him the autonomy to do so. Anything less slap not only going to cost the NFL money in the long run, but also open them up to law suits as these players continue to break the law. 

    I know this is coming, there is no reason to debate it any longer. 

     

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Finally

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    I think banning someone from employment for life because they had a firearms violation or a DUI conviction is a bit extreme.  I'm not saying these offenses aren't serious, but I think it's a bad precedent to encourage employers to deny employment to anyone who has ever done anything wrong.  A lot of people would be permanently out of work if this approach were adopted more broadly in society. 

     

    Rkarp, you say about 5% of the NFL population should be in prison (that's about 100 current players).  If so, that's a matter for the legal system, not their employers.  I suspect, however, that if they really deserved to be in prison, they'd be there.  Again, it's the courts that make that decision, not employers. 


    If someone isn't in prison, should employers deny them employment because they had a violation in the past?  In some cases maybe (you don't want to hire sex offenders in a day care center for instance), but in all cases?  That just seems undesireable to me. The fact that someone had a DUI conviction two or three years ago does not seem to justify denying him employment in his chosen field for ever. 

     

    I also think the NFL is in the business of bringing great athletes to the field.  That's what we watch and why we watch.  Personally, I'm not too concerned if some of these athletes aren't perfect persons, and I think it's a little naive to expect them all to be paragons of moral rectitude.  Sure, I don't want murderers to be playing (they really should be locked up in prison as I believe Aaron Hernandez will be), but some guy who smoked pot in college or once got in a bar fight?  As far as I'm concerned, those guys should play if they are good football players and aren't currently in trouble. 

     

     

     



    Pro,

    The suspensions and banishments are on a scale depending on the severity. And of course the courts decide on jail or not.

    But if you are using a firearm against some one you are banned for life. If you are caught DUI you are suspended for the year. Crimes against women, one year. Selling drugs, using drugs, etc, etc. think that would make the p,ayers think twice and cut down on crime? 

    And the contracts are mandatory voided if you are suspended or banned....league rule, not team option

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats-bilbo. Show Pats-bilbo's posts

    Re: Finally

    Increasing the penaltities seems like it should stop them from doing things, however, they are sociopaths and think the rules don't apply to them, therefore, stronger rules... still don't apply to them. I think it has to start in high school and college and then the pro's. Stop treating good atheletes like the rules don't apply to them. If they learn that at a young age, they are not going to unlearn it when they get older.

    throw them out of league like the pats did if the offense is bad enough. Pay them half their pay if it is bad but not suspendable, etc... but don't think that making the penelties worst will stop them from doing it.


    --- " I am a happy fan, a proud fan and I want us to win every game 28-0 but as long as we win, the team is united and has a sense of respect to the community and the game I will be a patriots fan and damn proud of it." ---- signed a pats fan from middle earth

     

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