Fire Bill O'Brien!

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]i'm late to the party, but TB is at fault.  1.) Underwood wasn't open, why make that throw? If you had to make the throw, make sure Underwood goes to go get it. Don't throw it to him when the CB is 2 steps behind him.  2.) Don't talk to OB in a way you wouldn't dare talk to BB. Tom said something to OB first and I think OB said "And that means you can make that throw?" and Tom said "No sh*t.".  3.) OB needs to cool it, it was funny, but what was he going to do if he got in Tom's face? Was he going to fight him? No? Then learn to let stuff go.  4.) No one needs to be fired, it happens all the time. We only saw it because it's Tom Brady.  5.) Tom should've gotten after the DC, not the OC. The offense scored 28 points, the Defense gave up 28. The offense did it's job, the offense did not. 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    Let see, if you were getting knocked around by 300 plus guys for three to four hours, is there a chance you might be a little irritable?

    Then again, maybe the headset O'Brien was wearing was starting to get a little itchy which put him in a bad mood.

     
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    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : isn't a 14 point lead better than 10?  What if you play for a fG and it gets blocked? As Charlie Weiss used to say, "bury 'em!"
    Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE]

    14 points is better than 10, but 10 is better than 7. Makes sense? =)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Let see, if you were getting knocked around by 300 plus guys for three to four hours, is there a chance you might be a little irritable? Then again, maybe the headset O'Brien was wearing was starting to get a little itchy which put him in a bad mood.
    Posted by Grogan77[/QUOTE]

    Answer me this, would TB talk to BB like that? Doesn't BB only wear a headset as well? You have to show O'Brien SOME respect, if you (Tom Brady) don't, why would Tyquian Underwood? 
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : isn't a 14 point lead better than 10?  What if you play for a fG and it gets blocked? As Charlie Weiss used to say, "bury 'em!"
    Posted by Patsfansince1966[/QUOTE]

    With 2 mins off the clock (if they ran it 3 times) then a 2 score lead is practically insurmountable. They Skins would have to drive 80 yrds in practically no time recover an onsides kick then move it 20-30 yards most likely with no time outs. Possible, yes so 14 is better then 10 but likely, no. What running it three times using BJGE (a back that has never fumbled), you are running less risk of a turn over. Yes, there is less chance of scoring a TD but you greatly reduce the risk of turning it over.

    As far as the FG, you are right anything can happen but we aren't Dal. 99.9% of the time Gost makes a chip shot so combine that with BJGE running and I think you have a higher chance of getting points (even though it's less) while removing more time off the clock (which at that point in the game time might have been more important then the 4 points). It's just situational football. But, we'll never hear how BB really felt about those calls because he doesn't toss anyone under a bus regardless if he agreed with it or not
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FishTaco64. Show FishTaco64's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Answer me this, would TB talk to BB like that? Doesn't BB only wear a headset as well? You have to show O'Brien SOME respect, if you (Tom Brady) don't, why would Tyquian Underwood? 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    Tom would never snap like that on BB because BB would never rip off his headset and throw it down like a little kid having a hissy fit because the play that he called didn't work.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Answer me this, would TB talk to BB like that? Doesn't BB only wear a headset as well? You have to show O'Brien SOME respect, if you (Tom Brady) don't, why would Tyquian Underwood? 
    Posted by 49Patriots[/QUOTE]

    BB would never be that stupid to go off on his star QB like that on National TV.  And who cares what Tyquain Underwood thinks or respects.  

     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : No, he's not right to question Brady.  Bill O'Brien is lucky too be a coach in the NFL.  This isn't just about the one play, this is about what kind of logic O'Brien uses to be arguing with his star player that could win plenty of games without him.  ...
    Posted by Grogan77[/QUOTE]

    by your logic nwe should never have an oc - not while tb is qb. if the oc can't call out the qb when he makes a mistake then there's no point to having an oc. 

    the mindset that you are advocating is not what got the pats 3 SBs. the pats won 3 SBs when nobody was bigger than the team. this is not about winning games anymore. they have been winning games yet leaving everyone empty in the end. this is about winning it all. tb needs to lead by getting people around him they are capable of winning it all, not act like a primadonna.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

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    [QUOTE]I am not a fan, but I actally like how he stood up to Brady just like how I liked when he did it last year to Moss. WHo knows what Brady was saying, but when the ball is late or behind a WR's route, that's not on the WR.  I've seen that  at l;east a dozen times this year.  So, good for O'Brien for not letting Brady talk down to Underwood after just a Tony Romoesque boneheaded play. Love Brady, but come on now. What's frustrating is, we've seen OB be capable, but there are stretches where he looks like he's randomly picking plays, with no real sense of logic or strategy where the plays actually set up more potential for various plays later on.
    Posted by RidingWithTheKingII[/QUOTE]

    this is similar to my take.
    prefer a top of the league coordinator. nice to see him practice being like a real coach and be willing to "coach" (yell at) brady.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    I said nothing of getting rid of Brady. I merely pointed out the bad play was on Brady not the OC-talk about distorting someones post. Read my post once more and maybe you will see what I actually said not what you interpreted-clown!In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : So you would be happier if the Pats got rid of Brady and kept OB and Underdog.
    Posted by Grogan77[/QUOTE]
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimmytantric. Show jimmytantric's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    I believe the Pats have the second ranked offense in the NFL. And you want to dump the OC for what reason? Because he didn't cow down to Brady. Even Brady said he was at fault! BTW Brady also has a good chance to take down Marinos record of Passing yards this year! I cannot imagine how your mind works calling for O Brien to be fired?In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]O'Brien is a chump in over his head. Dump him.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]I believe the Pats have the second ranked offense in the NFL. And you want to dump the OC for what reason? Because he didn't cow down to Brady. Even Brady said he was at fault! BTW Brady also has a good chance to take down Marinos record of Passing yards this year! I cannot imagine how your mind works calling for O Brien to be fired?In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! :
    Posted by jimmytantric[/QUOTE]

    Alrighty then. We have the 2nd ranked offense because of O'Brien? How about this. We can sit Brady for the playoffs and play Hoyer. O'Brien should be able to work his magic with that right? Coupled with this great D we should roll to the Lombardi.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    Let me get this right. The Pats have the 2nd ranked OFFENSE in the NFL and score 30 points a game and you think a better game plan is in order. Oh I get it you want 40 points a game-get a clue, the problem is not the offense,(that's right Rusty), the problem is the Defense, specifically the passing D!In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : The right thing would be to come up with a better offensive game plan.  But O'Brien isn't smart enough for that.  
    Posted by Grogan77[/QUOTE]
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : No, he's not right to question Brady.  Bill O'Brien is lucky too be a coach in the NFL.  This isn't just about the one play, this is about what kind of logic O'Brien uses to be arguing with his star player that could win plenty of games without him.  O'Brien is just not a smart guy, he right now he's the offensive coordinator for the Pats.  I understand completely why the Pats got knock off last season against the Jets in the playoffs.  It's a lack of qualified assistant coaches.
    Posted by Grogan77[/QUOTE]

    I basically Agree with Grogan.
     
    If that interception happened with the Pats up by 2 scores, not a word said about it AND Brady DOES have a right as a leader on Offense to question Underwood. O'Brien did not play genuine situational football which should have been played for a FG. That defense is playing mental havoc on the mind of the team as a whole forcing bad decisions on the 'O and ST'.
     

    The fall guy is Brady in this case and I feel it WAS O'Briens call for a pass. Bradys mistake was he tried to force it to Underwood where he had Gronk as a better target or throw it away ....so be it. Just studying the mental-psycho of the aftermath aspects of this event clearly points to O'Brien as an instigator. O'Brien lost his cool over something that Brady almost always does during the season in questioning or talking to a player when something went/going wrong.

    Then O'Brien  - acting unprofessionally - verbally attacks Brady while slamming his earphones all the while making a physical gesture toward Brady? Nonsense!Clearly it WAS O'Briens call for a pass, NOT BRADY! Brady admitted making a bad choice/pass.

    Then Brady with his keen sense and intelligence then condensends and makes up with a hug, defusing the situation. Good for Brady for being level headed as I have even more respect for him.

    I think a sort of internal rift has been going on for some time because of the 'fact' that O'Brien made a physical move toward Brady on the field which is UNEXUSABLE! There is an obvious underlining reason for that gesture. I hope he is soon gone. The guy is simply not a good NFL coach.
     

    Ultimately Belichick is responsible for these situational football decisions and lack of good coaching support that have been poor for a quite a while. Without Brady, the team is 3-4 wins Max. Without Brady, Belichick has NO RINGS!

    Wishing all a good night/day.

     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : I basically Agree with Grogan.   If that interception happened with the Pats up by 2 scores, not a word said about it AND Brady DOES have a right as a leader on Offense to question Underwood. O'Brien did not play genuine situational football which should have been played for a FG. That defense is playing mental havoc on the mind of the team as a whole forcing bad decisions on the 'O and ST'.   The fall guy is Brady in this case and I feel it WAS O'Briens call for a pass. Bradys mistake was he tried to force it to Underwood where he had Gronk as a better target or throw it away ....so be it. Just studying the mental-psycho of the aftermath aspects of this event clearly points to O'Brien as an instigator. O'Brien lost his cool over something that Brady almost always does during the season in questioning or talking to a player when something went/going wrong. Then O'Brien  - acting unprofessionally - verbally attacks Brady while slamming his earphones all the while making a physical gesture toward Brady? Nonsense!Clearly it WAS O'Briens call for a pass, NOT BRADY! Brady admitted making a bad choice/pass. Then Brady with his keen sense and intelligence then condensends and makes up with a hug, defusing the situation. Good for Brady for being level headed as I have even more respect for him. I think a sort of internal rift has been going on for some time because of the 'fact' that O'Brien made a physical move toward Brady on the field which is UNEXUSABLE! There is an obvious underlining reason for that gesture. I hope he is soon gone. The guy is simply not a good NFL coach.   Ultimately Belichick is responsible for these situational football decisions and lack of good coaching support that have been poor for a quite a while. Without Brady, the team is 3-4 wins Max. Without Brady, Belichick has NO RINGS! Wishing all a good night/day.
    Posted by palookaski[/QUOTE]

    Bingo.

    Notice also who BB told to back off. It wasn't Brady. O'Brien is a Mangini in training. BB gives the guy the break of a lifetime and he goes after the franchise guy for getting fired up on a scrub who didn't even put up whimper to fight for the ball. And fans siding with the scrub & overrated coach is disgraceful.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    I'm going to bottom line this as I'm getting tired of sharing my opinion on this over and over again.

    For all those who think it was fine for O'Brien to stand up to Brady, fine.  But did you see him screaming and basically throwing a tantrum while doing so?  He's the OC not the head coach for crying out loud.  Handle it like a pro not some little punk.

    That is all.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    Don't know if it's been mentioned but it looks like BB goes over to O'Brien and tells him "shut up, shut up".  Anyone catch that?
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]I'm going to bottom line this as I'm getting tired of sharing my opinion on this over and over again. For all those who think it was fine for O'Brien to stand up to Brady, fine.  But did you see him screaming and basically throwing a tantrum while doing so?  He's the OC not the head coach for crying out loud.  Handle it like a pro not some little punk. That is all.
    Posted by TFB12[/QUOTE]

    ok guys.
    those who played football will already know this. you maybe have heard that children like discipline (no not the kind masked as discipline that is physical violence), having boundaries and being told right from wrong, adn when they cross the liine or mess up.. players like this too, even when they protest. what obrian did was be a coach. yes he got heated, and went overboard when brady hollered back (also called insubordination). all coaches lose it like that at times, esp. when the tutelage is not being received. and yes bb went over, when bill obrian got out of control, and brought him back, also the job of fellow coaches, even if the head coach is losing it - if it's during a game anyway(otherwise the head coach will take it as far as their temper takes it typically. 

    so obrian was being a coach. a good thing. regardless of how good or bad a job he does calling a game or overall. bb did his job and calmed him down when he got carried away. tb did his job, shutting up after a point and later publicly saying it he was "being coached".

    being coached makes you better. even if you are great.

    so job well done. i suggest to you most any football player or coach you see this week speak about it, and knowledgeable reporters will say something similar or the same thing i just did.

    no player is above a coach and every player and every coach has their role. everyone did theirs in this situation.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]Run the ball... kill clock, and take 3 points.... Fire TB if you wanna fire anyone, but that's obviously stupid as well... almost as much as this thread, for this event does not influence O'briens time here in NE.  There are other areas to pick at if you don't want him as OC anymore. I'm not a huge O'brien, but he's right to question TB.  What the question here is: Did O'brien call a run play and TB audibled to a pass?
    Posted by Getzo[/QUOTE]

    Good question...

    Just as relevant would be "who"s decision was it to have Woodhead be your leading rusher on the day with 8 carries?"

    The only reason Washington was in this game was Roy Helu's 27 carries for 126 yards.  For those that remember my draft thread I wanted the Pats to take Helu but that's neither here nor there...

    Again, if we're saving Ridely and Law Firm and we run them at least 50% of the time in the playoffs then all this hand wringing and complaining will be for nothing.  My concern is that I've felt this way since our last championship after Weis left and none of these O coordinators since has gotten it.  Treat Brady like you have to protect him, run the ball a lot and he will thrive.

    I suppose I don't care what you do in the regular season, run it in the playoffs!!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Good question... Just as relevant would be "who"s decision was it to have Woodhead be your leading rusher on the day with 8 carries?" The only reason Washington was in this game was Roy Helu's 27 carries for 126 yards.  For those that remember my draft thread I wanted the Pats to take Helu but that's neither here nor there... Again, if we're saving Ridely and Law Firm and we run them at least 50% of the time in the playoffs then all this hand wringing and complaining will be for nothing.  My concern is that I've felt this way since our last championship after Weis left and none of these O coordinators since has gotten it.  Treat Brady like you have to protect him, run the ball a lot and he will thrive. I suppose I don't care what you do in the regular season, run it in the playoffs!!
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    Wozzy I was right with you. I wanted Helu in the 4th instead we got Vereen then Ridley. Why draft back to back RB's that early in the draft if you aren't going to use your feature back yet alone the rookies?

    I also agree with running the ball to protect Brady and take pressure off of him. It's funny because the best games Brady has had is when we've had a solid consistent run game mixed in. BJGE isn't a highlight threat but he's a solid dependable back who will give you good carries. Why not run him more often and prevent the D from basically locking in on Brady the entire game?
     
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    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Strongly disagree. I think Brady has earned the right to dress down a street scrub for something he saw as lacking in his execution. And it is the coach who is out of line jumping in on that. If O'Brien wants to climb on Brady for his part of a bad play that is within his authority. But Brady has well earned his place as leader of the offense and has not shown an itchy trigger finger to admonish in that role. O'Brien stepped out of his bounds as a coach and Brady had every right to give his overbearing trespass a blast right back. Brady doesn't need to be publicly humiliated by a Mickey Mouse OC that isn't even qualified for the job when he is the leader of the offense. zbellino -1, O'Brien -1.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    Agree completely Babe.

    I understand that there is tons of emotion bubbling during games. Folks are going to get in each other's faces, etc. OB is within his right to yell at both Brady and Underwood....However, I have a problem with the way OB handled himself. I thought it was completely unprofessional, and not inline with how BB himself would have handled the situation. Assistant coaches are a direct reflection of BB and the environment he has created for the Pats organization...OB in my estimation pushed pass that.
    It's one thing to yell, but its another to rip off your headset, stomp around, and look like you want to take a swing at TB.

    OB is a chump, and completely over his head...and I'm not saying this because of how he handled this situation...I'm saying it because he clearly doesn't understand how to correctly utilize the power of this offense in the most appropriate way, doesn't understand situational football, doesn't understand ingame adjustments, and is basically asleep at the wheel in the biggest of games.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Good question... Just as relevant would be "who"s decision was it to have Woodhead be your leading rusher on the day with 8 carries?" The only reason Washington was in this game was Roy Helu's 27 carries for 126 yards.  For those that remember my draft thread I wanted the Pats to take Helu but that's neither here nor there... Again, if we're saving Ridely and Law Firm and we run them at least 50% of the time in the playoffs then all this hand wringing and complaining will be for nothing.  My concern is that I've felt this way since our last championship after Weis left and none of these O coordinators since has gotten it.  Treat Brady like you have to protect him, run the ball a lot and he will thrive. I suppose I don't care what you do in the regular season, run it in the playoffs!!
    Posted by wozzy[/QUOTE]

    I number of us were interested in Helu when he came out. And I agree. Helu was a big reason the Skins were still in it, but so was the good play by Gaffney and Stallworth. Those 2 are topic for another discussion however in terms of BB letting at least Gaffney get away.

    My fear is what we see right now is what we are going to get in the playoffs. No commitment to the run. Faulk, BJGE and Woody getting all or most of the reps, and Brady having to put this team on his shoulders for any chance of a win. I like you and most here hope for some magical transformation, that BB is holding back the "secret weapon", but I just don't think this is the case.
     
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    Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!

    In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fire Bill O'Brien! : Wozzy I was right with you. I wanted Helu in the 4th instead we got Vereen then Ridley. Why draft back to back RB's that early in the draft if you aren't going to use your feature back yet alone the rookies? I also agree with running the ball to protect Brady and take pressure off of him. It's funny because the best games Brady has had is when we've had a solid consistent run game mixed in. BJGE isn't a highlight threat but he's a solid dependable back who will give you good carries. Why not run him more often and prevent the D from basically locking in on Brady the entire game?
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Well, that is the big question. Why invest so much in the posiiton of RB early in the draft if you aren't going to utilize them? Some will say we are prepping them for next year and years to come, but I don't buy it. When you invest a 2nd and 3rd rounder in a position of need, and clearly don't have a #1 killer back that is going to take most of the reps, I think you have to sprinkle in Vereen and Ridley more often even if that means taking reps from Faulk, Woody and BJGE.

    I've seen enough to make me believe that Vereen can be an X factor for this team if used correctly in the playoffs. He has speed, can get outside, and also makes a more than capable receiver. He NEEDS to get reps now however. My fear is BB has waited to long to properly integrate him into the offense. I think we are now reliant on Faulk, Woody and BJGE as our backfield come playoff time.
     
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