Fixing the defense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjfiton. Show kjfiton's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : Interesting...I always thought the steelers game was an anomoly. The defensive scheme was to give Rothesburger the middle of the field 5-15 yards (but take away deep) and wait for him to make a mistake. He took what the Pats gave him without getting impatient and controlled the ball for much of the game. I prefer the less risk averse and opportunistic D of late. As good or bad the defense has been this year this was one of only two examples of the coaches screwing up. The othe was the prevent D against the Giants in the last part of the game.
    Posted by patsbandwagonsince76[/QUOTE]

    yeah i agree. going back over the belichick years most of their defenses would improve as the season went along. this is NOT the 2003 defense by any means but even then, their best season they improved in the 2nd half with 3 shutouts. they have improved the pass rush to the best its been in a few years..

    they played the giants well throughout most of the game but blew it with the prevent defense... 

    they have a ways to go but they are clearly getting better even with the injuries, if they can continue on that trend it should be enough to win in the playoffs..

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : yes but other than the steelers, we held all of those teams below their season scoring average. team        points vs patriots   season average  raiders        19                            23.5 jets            21                            22.8 dallas         16                            24.5 pittsburgh   25                            22 giants        20                            22.8 jets           16                            22.8 chiefs         3                             14.4
    Posted by kjfiton[/QUOTE]

    2 pts of the 25 in the pitt game were off a safety. so you are comparing giving up 23 vs a season avg of 22 despite looking really ugly in that game. i do believe they learned something from that game, so i expect pitt to score around 19 or 20 next time around.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : 2 pts of the 25 in the pitt game were off a safety. so you are comparing giving up 23 vs a season avg of 22 despite looking really ugly in that game. i do believe they learned something from that game, so i expect pitt to score around 19 or 20 next time around.
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    TOP ...not getting Pitt off the field was the real issue there, not as much the points.

    I agree, unlikely next time will be the same except 25 point with more time for the Pats offense to be on the field would be fine too.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]TOP ...not getting Pitt off the field was the real issue there, not as much the points. I agree, unlikely next time will be the same except 25 point with more time for the Pats offense to be on the field would be fine too.
    Posted by patsbandwagonsince76[/QUOTE]
    There's two ways to look at this,
    1) Pats defense allowed Pit offense to march down the field over and over and eat up the clock
    2) Pats offense wasn't able to move the chains against Pit defense and keep possession of the clock

    You can't just blame the defense. If the Pats offense had matched the Pit offense TOP would have been even. The offense has to take half of the blame.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : There's two ways to look at this, 1) Pats defense allowed Pit offense to march down the field over and over and eat up the clock 2) Pats offense wasn't able to move the chains against Pit defense and keep possession of the clock You can't just blame the defense. If the Pats offense had matched the Pit offense TOP would have been even. The offense has to take half of the blame.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    Of course, the offense needing so many reps to establish anything is a big concern. Offenses being off he field does not help.

    In the Pitt game I had no problem with how the D carried out the game plan, they really fought. However, it looked like the coaches were too concerned with taking away the deep ball (understandably since that is Pittsbughs forte) and left the passing defense week underneath.

    I am pretty sure if the defense just played it straight perhaps Pitt would have had one long TD pass in exchange for another int. That would have been much better, and put the ball in both cases back in Bradys hand in a couple minutes as opposed to like 6-7 game minutes..and in the end the Pitt scoring would be about the same.

     One thing about this Pats offense...once they are warmed up they roll.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from j24m1. Show j24m1's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    Playing some bad qbs helps mask the problem. Take a look at 3rd down conversion % the pats let up against winning teams. The defense is not very good but has seemed to improve more with injuries. Also look at the games they lost and the offensive play. You will see they have lost the games that the offense struggles a bit. Why??? The other half of the team isn't wining any games for the patriots. Unless they mold an identity with some confidence it will be a problem in the playoffs again. How confident are you when the offense plays below standards? C'mon fans. Getting off the field against good quarterbacks has been impossible for this team for a couple years. When they play good teams they won't win without an efficient offensive outing. Like... They won't win... D isn't good but they are becoming serviceable. just like last year.. To on YouTube and watch the pats defense from 02 through 07. Puts things into perspective.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]Playing some bad qbs helps mask the problem. Take a look at 3rd down conversion % the pats let up against winning teams. The defense is not very good but has seemed to improve more with injuries. Also look at the games they lost and the offensive play. You will see they have lost the games that the offense struggles a bit. Why??? The other half of the team isn't wining any games for the patriots. Unless they mold an identity with some confidence it will be a problem in the playoffs again. How confident are you when the offense plays below standards? C'mon fans. Getting off the field against good quarterbacks has been impossible for this team for a couple years. When they play good teams they won't win without an efficient offensive outing. Like... They won't win... D isn't good but they are becoming serviceable. just like last year..
    Posted by j24m1[/QUOTE]
    Last year the D became good late in the season. The loss to the Jets in the playoffs was an anomaly. This year all the good teams have major holes. Come playoff time I like our chances with Belichick and Brady.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from j24m1. Show j24m1's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : Last year the D became good late in the season. The loss to the Jets in the playoffs was an anomaly. This year all the good teams have major holes. Come playoff time I like our chances with Belichick and Brady.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    I liked our chances last year. If we replayed last year I still like them. Ask yourself where the anomaly lies. A better defense allows them to still win that game. And by better I mean average for a playoff team. Not to mention that defense may have been better. I hope I'm wrong. I wish vick was playing this week. . Could of been last real test of the year against a fast offense with a above average qb
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : Offensive ineptness? The Patriots have had a few slow starts which is concerning but ineptnessPosted by patsbandwagonsince76[/QUOTE]

    LOL, sounds something like Jim Mora might say rationalizing inept play.


    But yes, there have about four games in the first half where the offense was inept and not executing. Simple as that.

    With the talent they have they should be able to put up 35 points a game, just like they did aganst the great new jersey jests defense.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]I liked our chances last year. If we replayed last year I still like them. Ask yourself where the anomaly lies. A better defense allows them to still win that game. And by better I mean average for a playoff team. Not to mention that defense may have been better. I hope I'm wrong. I wish vick was playing this week. . Could of been last real test of the year against a fast offense with a above average qb
    Posted by j24m1[/QUOTE]
    I believe the anomaly lies with execution. Too many mistakes by the offense, defense and special teams did them in.

    A better defense would not have allowed the Jets to be 4-4 in the red zone so I agree with you there.

    Ravens, Steelers, Texans, Raiders, those are the teams we are likely to face in the playoffs. Flacco, Roethlisberger, Leinart, Palmer, I'm quivering.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : LOL, sounds something like Jim Mora might say rationalizing inept play. But yes, there have about four games in the first half where the offense was inept and not executing. Simple as that. With the talent they have they should be able to put up 35 points a game, just like they did aganst the great new jersey jests defense.
    Posted by kansaspatriot[/QUOTE]

    35 points a game? , your talkin about 35 points a game? I just hope they score more than the other team and your talkin about 35 points?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from j24m1. Show j24m1's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : I believe the anomaly lies with execution. Too many mistakes by the offense, defense and special teams did them in. A better defense would not have allowed the Jets to be 4-4 in the red zone so I agree with you there. Ravens, Steelers, Texans, Raiders, those are the teams we are likely to face in the playoffs. Flacco, Roethlisberger, Leinart, Palmer, I'm quivering.
    Posted by digger0862[/QUOTE]

    The only one you name that can be a real problem is Ben. I guess that's brings up the other concern however. Pitt and balt have defenses that can create a poor offensive showing. Do the pats win those games ? I'm not sure. Btw superbowl or bust. That means you forgot a guy probably named Rodgers who would shred the current d.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    Rodgers scares the heck out of me.

    The AFC is up for grabs between Bal, Pit and us in my opinion. Whoever is hot and makes the least mistakes will win.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : The only one you name that can be a real problem is Ben. I guess that's brings up the other concern however. Pitt and balt have defenses that can create a poor offensive showing. Do the pats win those games ? I'm not sure. Btw superbowl or bust. That means you forgot a guy probably named Rodgers who would shred the current d.
    Posted by j24m1[/QUOTE]

    Of course a guy named Brady who can shred the GB D...what a game that would be.

    I am worried most about Ben too. Would Rather see Flaco in the playoffs.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    Yes. The Jets' game's overall game plan was sound. Just too many unforced mistakes. The drop in the endzone. The missed fake punt? 

    The drive to nowhere, running the football when they should have been in hurry up mode. Finishing with a missed FG. 

    The defense was worse last season than this season, but it was still huge pass completions that could have been avoided. 

    The Jets are a completely different team with and without a lead. 

    Thankfully, this season, the biggest structural flaw that was exposed in that game looks corrected. NE has the horses to get after Sanchize and other QBs in his class like Flacco. 

    Carter and Anderson might be enough to start beating dominant "D" teams, with suspect offenses with more authority.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : yes but other than the steelers, we held all of those teams below their season scoring average. team        points vs patriots   season average  raiders        19                            23.5 jets            21                            22.8 dallas         16                            24.5 pittsburgh   25                            22 giants        20                            22.8 jets           16                            22.8 chiefs         3                             14.4
    Posted by kjfiton[/QUOTE]


    Not by much. And having a top O could affect the number. But, the D has been looking better. No doubt about that. But better than horrible is a relative thing.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davedsone. Show Davedsone's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    I don't think the Steelers will be able to do that all the time.  It was one of those games when one team was red hot, one team was dead in the water.  You play Pitt 10 times I would be willing to bet we win 8 of them.  Last year the Jests got the ONE game they needed to feel triumphant.  The year before, it was the Ravens.  If two games ending two years told what was going to happen in the future, then we win the superbowl in 05 and 06, right?  It is too easy to get upset because we lost in the first round two years straight, but that is just two years of not playing well enough for ONE GAME.  ONE.  JUST ONE.  I am not scared of Pitt in the playoffs, or even Baltimore.  Or the Jests.  Or Houston.  GB scares me.  But that matchup will be taking place in Indy, and I'll take my chances with that one.  I wasn't that impressed with them the last two times I saw them.  Good, even great, but not beyond being beaten.  And taking them out of perfection in the SB would feel really, really, really good.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]As long as BB is the coach here, this defense is always going to be conservative. IT will never be a Rob Ryan "Defense." Considering that BB pulled the trigger on enough pass rushers in the offseason, and they are actually starting to pan out a bit, the remaining hole is simply execution. The safety play has been atrocious to mediocre this season, and the cornerback play middle of the pack.  They need to execute better, stay away from big penalties, and not let the big plays get behind them. They also need to play with more awareness of the first down marker; I often see players lined behind the marker by 5 yards who are late stopping. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    agree on the bb conservative d. i dotn like it. even in th esb wins we just barely win cause we played very conservative on both sides.

    z, 2 slightly opposite points you seem to make. just apparently anyway. dont get beat and dont line up beyond th e1st down marker.

    bb has the tendency to yield the middle of the field and the short pass. he wants to prevent the deep play. and it works at that. but it also allows a team to drive all the way down th efield eating up the clock. then if they score, not only does it take the ballout of brady's hands, it gives us less time to counter.

    i think we need a dt monser next to fork.
    2 better linebackers (maybe 1 in this draft and one fa)
    wouldnt mind a young pass rushin de (who is adequate agains the run too)
    but without a pass rush in todays league....
    anderson and carter decent, however we need some immediate pressure.
    therefore better player.


    a free safety in fa.
    maybe a corner too in fa.

    o needs additions to to be effective against tough de
    ie #1 receiver in fa.

    fill all needs in fa.

    use draft only to get he the gamechangers within our reach.

    combine picks lower and next year, trade up and get the players that will put us over the top.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fixing the defense : It isn't all about the stats. Just watch the games. We get a ton of yardage and do get turnover; however, a lot of those turnovers are by dumb passes from the offense. We've played against a lot of inept qbs who just shoot themselves in the foot. I dont get why people get so defiant of people have a negative thing to say about the team. Support the team all the way, just don't trust this d against better qbs. We have been a weak/ middle of the road defense the last couple seasons. Talk about being first in the afc east all you want, but we've done it three years in a row with little to show for it. The defense is part of the issue. It's all about getting better moving forward, not being complacent with being first in the east... And my personal opinion is getting a new d coordinator.
    Posted by dapats1281[/QUOTE]

    thanks dapats.
    bring all of that.
    seeing what is and saying it.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]Yes. The Jets' game's overall game plan was sound. Just too many unforced mistakes. The drop in the endzone. The missed fake punt?  The drive to nowhere, running the football when they should have been in hurry up mode. Finishing with a missed FG.  The defense was worse last season than this season, but it was still huge pass completions that could have been avoided.  The Jets are a completely different team with and without a lead.  Thankfully, this season, the biggest structural flaw that was exposed in that game looks corrected. NE has the horses to get after Sanchize and other QBs in his class like Flacco.  Carter and Anderson might be enough to start beating dominant "D" teams, with suspect offenses with more authority.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    would you include baltimore there? i dont they have the weapons. they jsut need ot avoid a flacco off day. he did fine agains a much better d in sf.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    those who still think we beat pittsburgh. i want to ask were you watching the game. dick lebeau solved our offense finally. we have to adjust now and its not a foregone conclusion that we will. esp without a wideout.

    and our defense cannot get of fthe field against good qbs who dont make dumb mistakes.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from palookaski. Show palookaski's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    Good post here..Thanks.

    You can talk and preach all you want about EXECUTION! but execution is in the bodies of the beholders, the playmakers with talent! We can wish it on them, but it's simply uncoachable, you have it or you don't.  If you played the game yourselves you can see it clearly when you have the players. It's amazing what just 2 key playmakers contribute every down and make the difference.

    You can coach a play with X&Os and practice but the real dynamics of that play do change and the playmakers with athletic ability make the difference. The Pats lack some missing key playmakers on the D.

    You get a glimpse of it now with Carter!

    Have a good Gameday....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    10 games into the season, past the trade deadline, not many players to be picked up off wavers - I'd say it was too late to "fix" the defense for the remainder of the season.

    It's a matter of coaching up the scrubs....and that's it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense

    In Response to Re: Fixing the defense:
    [QUOTE]10 games into the season, past the trade deadline, not many players to be picked up off wavers - I'd say it was too late to "fix" the defense for the remainder of the season. It's a matter of coaching up the scrubs....and that's it.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    exactly...like it or not, this team has o make their d work...it has to make their ground game work. it has to make their deep ball work...each work given the players they now have.

    sorry, but the start of this discussion just really came across as throwing in the white flag this season.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Fixing the defense


    After yesterday's game, and us being ranked 10th in points allowed on D, I feel  a bit better about the D, but, I am also scared sh!tless about facing a good QB with good WRs. That type of a team can give this D many problems.

    For this year, all I want are the injured players to come back and all play together as a unit for 3 games to prepare for the post-season. I want to see this D at near full strength. Also, IF McCourty can step up his play, and also Chung, I think that secondary gets a lot better. Similar with Spikes and Fletcher. If we can get something good out of both of them, especially like Fletcher flashed in preseason, I feel much better about the LB group.

    The D line scares me a bit. They seem to get pressure in spurts, and often times that pressure comes a bit too late. I don't know how to solve this problem this season, unless we start sending 5 or 6 consistently to get more pressure faster.
    Next year is a whole different story. A couple of FA moves plus keying in on a few defensive players in the draft should help this D out wonders. We just can't whiff on any of them.
     

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