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For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    Those FAs do have high base salaries, but not all of them have high cap hits.  The salary cap hit is what's important.  Brady, Mankins, Willfork, etc. do have the largest cap hits. Some of those FAs are fairly expensive, however.  Young draft picks would be cheaper. 

     
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    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    Lets return focus to the Pats..please label the following bust or not bust...

    Brace

    Dowling

    chung

    meriweather

    maroney

    cunningham

    price

    mallet

    mccourty

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from patsbandwagonsince76. Show patsbandwagonsince76's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    The scary thing about 1rst rounders is that their rookie contracts cost more and many times the so-so players are kept around too long becasue of the 1rst round investment and displace a better long term players.

     

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    What if we attain a bunch of players between rd 4 and undrafted that not only make this team as contributors but start games for us? Does this mean our guy is not a great GM because the coach implores open competition? Because Kyle Arrington starts over Darius Butler? Because Justin Francis gets PT over Jermaine Cunningham then BB has failed as a GM?

    I say the answer is no, and I think most if not all NFL GM's would agree.

    More draft picks and more wins then other teams = less chance of players lasting on your roster.

     




     

    A non sequitur here.  Hitting on late round picks doesn't make missing on mid round picks okay.  And no one said that every player shouldn't have an equal chance to make the roster.  

    Believe me, BB isn't into wasting his mid round picks (or any picks for that matter) and he's as disappointed as anyone if a second to third round pick doesn't pan out.  But sure, he gives everyone--high pick, low pick, undrafted rookie, or veteran--an equal chance to compete and show what he can do.  Why wouldn't he do that?  And no one is arguing he shouldn't.  Again, your argument is a complete non sequitur. 

     

     

     


    if hitting on late round picks doesnt excuse missing then you actually expect BB to field 7 to 10 draft picks a year, which would be over 40 players in the last 5 years not including undrafted FA's which we all know is a very important part of BB the GMs team building 

     

     




    Why do you say that?  That doesn't make sense.

     

    No one is expecting BB to hit on every pick but it's not unrealistic to hit on a good % of the higher picks.  This hasn't been the case especially in the DB, DL and Wr department.

    If a team like GB can hit on 20 starters, why can'y BB?

    There has been NO SHORTAGE of open positions.  Every single starting position except Brady, mankins, Wilfork has been replaced (multiple times), since 2007.  That's plenty of open starter positions.  We have a new backfield every year for cripes sake, recievers too.

    I'm sorry, but constantly using a revolving door of FA's is a problem too.  This could be eliminated with better draft picks.

    I saw a list of the 2013 salaries earlier and was SHOCKED!

    Jenkins is the highest paid of all the receivers and TE's @3,9166666????

    Leon Washington makes a million bucks more than, Blount, Ridley, Vereen and Bolden, COMBINED?  Why??????

    Kelly is the highest of not only the DL but the highest paid, PERIOD!  Higher than Brady, Mankins and Fork.  WHY?????

    Adrian Wilson is the highest paid of all the DB's.

    All the FA's brought in as starters, make more than all the other starters?  Why?

    Bad drafts and a low % of starters.  That's why.

    Don't you think if BB had hit on 10 more starters, like GB or 8 more like the Saints, that would have eliminated that need to bring in old, and high priced FA's.  EVERY YEAR!

    I do.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/roster

     




     

     

    Tommy Kelly makes more than Brady and Wilfork?  News to every human on the planet, but you apparently.

    The biggest question of "why" is why didn't daddy do something different instead of doing what he did, Pezzy. lmao

    Are you aware Adrian Wilson had a HOF kind of career in Arizona?  If he wins a ring here, he's probably in.

    The guy played in god awful conditions in Arizona. You're asking why a player of his caliber is getting paid peanuts to be here?

    The Saints? The Packers? Each of those teams had huge chunks of their Ds leave the last 2 years and had bad defenses last year, certainly FAR WORSE than ours.   Try watching games outside of ours for once, PezzDispenser.

    How drunk or dumb are you? Not one thing you said is true.  Tommy Kelly makes more than Vince and Brady?

    What on earth?

    Can anyone explain his disease? It might be brand new to the medical/scientific community!

     

     




    Did you read the salaries I provided?

     

    Speaking of diseased, you are the petrie dish of BDC

    Kelly 8,874 267

    Wilfork, 8,600 000

    Mankins 7,000 000

    TB, 7, 775 000

    Mayo 7,150 000

    The pats had their whole D leave too, Mostly because of the 31st, 27th rankings and lack of talent.

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    What if we attain a bunch of players between rd 4 and undrafted that not only make this team as contributors but start games for us? Does this mean our guy is not a great GM because the coach implores open competition? Because Kyle Arrington starts over Darius Butler? Because Justin Francis gets PT over Jermaine Cunningham then BB has failed as a GM?

    I say the answer is no, and I think most if not all NFL GM's would agree.

    More draft picks and more wins then other teams = less chance of players lasting on your roster.

     




     

    A non sequitur here.  Hitting on late round picks doesn't make missing on mid round picks okay.  And no one said that every player shouldn't have an equal chance to make the roster.  

    Believe me, BB isn't into wasting his mid round picks (or any picks for that matter) and he's as disappointed as anyone if a second to third round pick doesn't pan out.  But sure, he gives everyone--high pick, low pick, undrafted rookie, or veteran--an equal chance to compete and show what he can do.  Why wouldn't he do that?  And no one is arguing he shouldn't.  Again, your argument is a complete non sequitur. 

     

     

     


    if hitting on late round picks doesnt excuse missing then you actually expect BB to field 7 to 10 draft picks a year, which would be over 40 players in the last 5 years not including undrafted FA's which we all know is a very important part of BB the GMs team building 

     

     




    Why do you say that?  That doesn't make sense.

     

    No one is expecting BB to hit on every pick but it's not unrealistic to hit on a good % of the higher picks.  This hasn't been the case especially in the DB, DL and Wr department.

    If a team like GB can hit on 20 starters, why can'y BB?

    There has been NO SHORTAGE of open positions.  Every single starting position except Brady, mankins, Wilfork has been replaced (multiple times), since 2007.  That's plenty of open starter positions.  We have a new backfield every year for cripes sake, recievers too.

    I'm sorry, but constantly using a revolving door of FA's is a problem too.  This could be eliminated with better draft picks.

    I saw a list of the 2013 salaries earlier and was SHOCKED!

    Jenkins is the highest paid of all the receivers and TE's @3,9166666????

    Leon Washington makes a million bucks more than, Blount, Ridley, Vereen and Bolden, COMBINED?  Why??????

    Kelly is the highest of not only the DL but the highest paid, PERIOD!  Higher than Brady, Mankins and Fork.  WHY?????

    Adrian Wilson is the highest paid of all the DB's.

    All the FA's brought in as starters, make more than all the other starters?  Why?

    Bad drafts and a low % of starters.  That's why.

    Don't you think if BB had hit on 10 more starters, like GB or 8 more like the Saints, that would have eliminated that need to bring in old, and high priced FA's.  EVERY YEAR!

    I do.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/roster

     




     

     

    Tommy Kelly makes more than Brady and Wilfork?  News to every human on the planet, but you apparently.

    The biggest question of "why" is why didn't daddy do something different instead of doing what he did, Pezzy. lmao

    Are you aware Adrian Wilson had a HOF kind of career in Arizona?  If he wins a ring here, he's probably in.

    The guy played in god awful conditions in Arizona. You're asking why a player of his caliber is getting paid peanuts to be here?

    The Saints? The Packers? Each of those teams had huge chunks of their Ds leave the last 2 years and had bad defenses last year, certainly FAR WORSE than ours.   Try watching games outside of ours for once, PezzDispenser.

    How drunk or dumb are you? Not one thing you said is true.  Tommy Kelly makes more than Vince and Brady?

    What on earth?

    Can anyone explain his disease? It might be brand new to the medical/scientific community!

     

     




    Did you read the salaries I provided?

     

    Speaking of diseased, you are the petrie dish of BDC

    Kelly 8,874 267

    Wilfork, 8,600 000

    Mankins 7,000 000

    TB, 7, 775 000

     



    Kelly is making 8 million in 2013?

    So, Oak cuts him for 6.5 due in 2013 and we pay him 8 million as he bangs down our door to win a ring with BB?

     

    LOL!

    Delusional.  Please get a college education. 

     




    That's what his salary is listed at, troll.  You got a problem, speak to the GM.

     

    BWAHAHAHA!

    93 Kelly, Tommy LDT 6-6 325 32 10 Mississippi State $8,874,267
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    T

    Running Backs NoPlayerPosHtWtAgeExpCollege2013 Salary 39 Bartholomew, Ben FB 6-2 252 23 R Tennessee N/A 29 Blount, LeGarrette RB 6-0 247 26 4 Oregon $540,000 38 Bolden, Brandon RB 5-11 220 23 2 Mississippi $395,000 46 Develin, James FB 6-3 251 24 2 Brown N/A   Hines, Quentin RB 5-11 190 22 R Akron N/A 22 Ridley, Stevan RB 5-11 220 24 3 LSU $671,250 35 Shavers, Akeem RB 5-11 203 N/A R Purdue N/A 34 Vereen, Shane RB 5-9 205 24 3 California $786,625 33 Washington, Leon PR/RB 5-8 203 30 8 Florida State $3,375,000

    This one kills me!  A million bucks MORE than all other RB's COMBINED! 

    Pays to hit on those draft picks!

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    Pezz you are wrong.  Every source around the country had the patriots signing Kelly to a 2 year 5 million dollar deal with only a million guaranteed.

    Look here for example: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/tommy-kelly/

    The yahoo numbers are wrong or are including dead money from Oakland which is irrelevant to us.  Stop trolling.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    The same thing applies for Adrian Wilson and Washington.  The numbers you are quoting are wrong.  Learn the game.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    If this thread doesn't demonstrate that Pezz has gone off the deep end idk what will.  Trolling so hard on BB he quotes obviously false numbers.  You'd think if we were paying Kelly 8 million it would have gotten a bit more attention on this board.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    If this thread doesn't demonstrate that Pezz has gone off the deep end idk what will.  Trolling so hard on BB he quotes obviously false numbers.

     




    Deep end?  I guess yahoo has gone off the deep end as that is what they are reporting.

    And they are only wrong with the new FA's?

    Media bias, against BB, right?  Must be.

    Sorry I don't have time to go through every news sourse in the country like you.  I saw exactly one that had all the salaries listed,  Regardless, his salary on the DL is more than anyone not named Wilfork, and exactly my point.  Pays to hit on those draft picks!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    What if we attain a bunch of players between rd 4 and undrafted that not only make this team as contributors but start games for us? Does this mean our guy is not a great GM because the coach implores open competition? Because Kyle Arrington starts over Darius Butler? Because Justin Francis gets PT over Jermaine Cunningham then BB has failed as a GM?

    I say the answer is no, and I think most if not all NFL GM's would agree.

    More draft picks and more wins then other teams = less chance of players lasting on your roster.

     




     

    A non sequitur here.  Hitting on late round picks doesn't make missing on mid round picks okay.  And no one said that every player shouldn't have an equal chance to make the roster.  

    Believe me, BB isn't into wasting his mid round picks (or any picks for that matter) and he's as disappointed as anyone if a second to third round pick doesn't pan out.  But sure, he gives everyone--high pick, low pick, undrafted rookie, or veteran--an equal chance to compete and show what he can do.  Why wouldn't he do that?  And no one is arguing he shouldn't.  Again, your argument is a complete non sequitur. 

     

     

     


    if hitting on late round picks doesnt excuse missing then you actually expect BB to field 7 to 10 draft picks a year, which would be over 40 players in the last 5 years not including undrafted FA's which we all know is a very important part of BB the GMs team building 

     

     




    Why do you say that?  That doesn't make sense.

     

    No one is expecting BB to hit on every pick but it's not unrealistic to hit on a good % of the higher picks.  This hasn't been the case especially in the DB, DL and Wr department.

    If a team like GB can hit on 20 starters, why can'y BB?

    There has been NO SHORTAGE of open positions.  Every single starting position except Brady, mankins, Wilfork has been replaced (multiple times), since 2007.  That's plenty of open starter positions.  We have a new backfield every year for cripes sake, recievers too.

    I'm sorry, but constantly using a revolving door of FA's is a problem too.  This could be eliminated with better draft picks.

    I saw a list of the 2013 salaries earlier and was SHOCKED!

    Jenkins is the highest paid of all the receivers and TE's @3,9166666????

    Leon Washington makes a million bucks more than, Blount, Ridley, Vereen and Bolden, COMBINED?  Why??????

    Kelly is the highest of not only the DL but the highest paid, PERIOD!  Higher than Brady, Mankins and Fork.  WHY?????

    Adrian Wilson is the highest paid of all the DB's.

    All the FA's brought in as starters, make more than all the other starters?  Why?

    Bad drafts and a low % of starters.  That's why.

    Don't you think if BB had hit on 10 more starters, like GB or 8 more like the Saints, that would have eliminated that need to bring in old, and high priced FA's.  EVERY YEAR!

    I do.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe/roster

     




     

     

    Tommy Kelly makes more than Brady and Wilfork?  News to every human on the planet, but you apparently.

    The biggest question of "why" is why didn't daddy do something different instead of doing what he did, Pezzy. lmao

    Are you aware Adrian Wilson had a HOF kind of career in Arizona?  If he wins a ring here, he's probably in.

    The guy played in god awful conditions in Arizona. You're asking why a player of his caliber is getting paid peanuts to be here?

    The Saints? The Packers? Each of those teams had huge chunks of their Ds leave the last 2 years and had bad defenses last year, certainly FAR WORSE than ours.   Try watching games outside of ours for once, PezzDispenser.

    How drunk or dumb are you? Not one thing you said is true.  Tommy Kelly makes more than Vince and Brady?

    What on earth?

    Can anyone explain his disease? It might be brand new to the medical/scientific community!

     

     




    Did you read the salaries I provided?

     

    Speaking of diseased, you are the petrie dish of BDC

    Kelly 8,874 267

    Wilfork, 8,600 000

    Mankins 7,000 000

    TB, 7, 775 000

     



    Kelly is making 8 million in 2013?

    So, Oak cuts him for 6.5 due in 2013 and we pay him 8 million as he bangs down our door to win a ring with BB?

     

    LOL!

    Delusional.  Please get a college education. 

     




    That's what his salary is listed at, troll.  You got a problem, speak to the GM.

     

    BWAHAHAHA!

    93 Kelly, Tommy LDT 6-6 325 32 10 Mississippi State $8,874,267



    Brady makes less then tommy Kelly?  Great googlie mooglie! 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

    If this thread doesn't demonstrate that Pezz has gone off the deep end idk what will.  Trolling so hard on BB he quotes obviously false numbers.  You'd think if we were paying Kelly 8 million it would have gotten a bit more attention on this board.




    I've had pezz on ignore for a long time. He only comes out for BB bashing. Probably a spin off of another poster...

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    All this discussion makes me wonder which type of bust is worse ....

    The guy who just underperformed to expectation or the guy who just never really got a season on the field together due to injuries (especially a kid who has a history of injuries in college in the first place).

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    To get back on topic I find it wrong to label a player a bust if his play deteriorates due to injury. This is what happend with Carimi. He won, and deserved the Outland. He wasn't chopped liver. But he has had numerous knee injuries.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    I tend to reserve "bust" for a guy who performs far below how other players drafted near him perform. By far below I mean you perform more like the guys who were drafted roughly 70 or more picks below you than like the guys picked just above you or in the next 30 or so picks after you.  A guy whose performance ends up being similar to the guys picked about 30 to 70 picks below him is a disappointment, but not necessarily a bust.

    If a guy gets hurt and can't perform, then "bust" is probably not the right term--that's more like "bad luck."  However, if a guy has known injury issues when you draft him and those injuries keep him from performing after he's drafted, then "bust" is an appropriate term, not so much as a criticism of the player but as a criticism of the GM who drafted him.  

     

    By this standard, Kyle Wilson might be a disappointment but he's not a real bust. Dowling is borderline bust, but only because his injuries were well known when he was drafted and honestly his performance when not injured last year was not particularly good.  This year will probably determine it for Dowling. 

    Guys like Chung, Butler, Meriweather, Brace, Cunningham were not busts, but probably rank as disappointments since none really developed into a solid, reliable starter (despite Meriweather's pro-bowl appearances). Wheatley and Chad Jackson were true busts. Maroney bordered on disappointment, though he played well enough as a starter early on not to call him a complete disappointment.  The third rounders (Price, Tate, McKenzie,Crable) are hard to call busts given where they were picked, but certainly are disappointments. 

    McCourty seems to be a success--the kind of solid starter you'd expect for a late first rounder.  Mallet is an "incomplete," but for a lot of reasons QBs are special cases . . . teams often stretch for them, because they are so hard to find and so critical to success, so even a first rounder who never makes it past back-up status can't be deemed a true bust.  

    By these standards, Belichick really hasn't had many outright busts . . . but he has had a fair number of what I would term disappointments in rounds two and three.  On the other hand, he's also had some notable successes in all rounds.  Overall, he's a very good drafter, just not perfect. 

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For the D&G's, the true definition of a bust...

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to pcmIV's comment:

     

    If this thread doesn't demonstrate that Pezz has gone off the deep end idk what will.  Trolling so hard on BB he quotes obviously false numbers.  You'd think if we were paying Kelly 8 million it would have gotten a bit more attention on this board.

     




    I've had pezz on ignore for a long time. He only comes out for BB bashing. Probably a spin off of another poster...

     




    Ha!  You are funny TC.

    Is it possible to ignore yourself, because you probably should.

    How is you blathering on about the finesse offense and the NEED to run the ball more and the sucky coaching from O'brian (Well that is until they did change those things with unsatisfactory results) any different from pointing out that the D has sucked for years and that might have something to do with the lack of drafting quality starters?  It's not!

    Seems to me a lot (not all) of posters  like to talk out of both sides of their mouths.

    Have a wonderful day!

     
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