For those talking about Welkers drops..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    For those talking about Welkers drops..

    Aaron Hernandez: Missed time for the third straight season to start his career. His 10 drops on 106 targets (9.4 percent) led to a worse drop rate than Welker (6 percent). Still a below-average blocker. Time for him to be the star the Patriots are paying him to be.

    check out the full grading the patriots players one by one.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/02/07/grading-the-patriots-one-one-for-the-season/1WRONcrIYmCTsYIRAt8NMN/story-1.html

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    It's probably time to squash the Welker drop talk and start the real discussion... Is Aaron Hernandez worth what he is being paid?  The don't resign Welker because he is dropping more passes is bogus and needs to be addressed with AH81 instead.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    So...are you saying we should drop Hern and give Wes his contract? 

     

    Welker = 32 years old, runs a 4.64 40, 5'8 tall and has dropped two of the most important catches in our last two elimination games. 

    Hern = 23 years old, 4.64 40, 6'1 tall and has time to grow. 

     

    Once again, thank god you don't run the front office. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    Hernandez is another butterfingers.... but I don't recall him dropping passes as crucial as some of the Welker's drops. He dropped a big one on the last ditch desperation drive the D collapse forced on us in the last SB I believe.

     
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    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.




    You really think his drop against the Ravens cost them the game? Thats an awfully big what if there OG.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.



    If you're referring to the AFCCG, I totally agree.  I was more referring to their overall performance throughout the season.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.




    If you have the 22 passes more we dropped than the Ravens as catches....

    Brady goes up 3 spots in the QB rankings for passer rating; from 6th to 3rd, and has over 5000 yards. Goes from a 98.7 to a 103.3.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.

     




    You really think his drop against the Ravens cost them the game? Thats an awfully big what if there OG.

     




    It is a big "if". But there is no "if" about that drop coming at a crucial time and being a huge factor in the dynamics of the game. "When" has a lot to do with a football game.

    In any case it was a huge choke.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.

     




    You really think his drop against the Ravens cost them the game? Thats an awfully big what if there OG.

     

     




    It is a big "if". But there is no "if" about that drop coming at a crucial time and being a huge factor in the dynamics of the game. "When" has a lot to do with a football game.

     

    In any case it was a huge choke.

     



    Babe, with respect to your 'when' point I am in complete agreement.  A good (or bad) play on either side of the ball at the right (or wrong) time often determines the outcome.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

     

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.

     




    You really think his drop against the Ravens cost them the game? Thats an awfully big what if there OG.

     

     




    It is a big "if". But there is no "if" about that drop coming at a crucial time and being a huge factor in the dynamics of the game. "When" has a lot to do with a football game.

     

    In any case it was a huge choke.

     



    No question about it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to CaptainZdeno33's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.

     




    You really think his drop against the Ravens cost them the game? Thats an awfully big what if there OG.

     




    I wont say they def. would have won if he makes the catch, but I believe that drop made it very hard for us to stay in the game.., he dropped more than one crucial 3rd down. The 4th down play to me was so deflating that I knew the game was over at that point so NO, maybe he didnt literally COST them the game like in the SB but that was a bad drop at the worst time and it deflated the team and although I still watched, I had already got that sinking feeling I get when I know its not gonna happen.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.

     



    If you're referring to the AFCCG, I totally agree.  I was more referring to their overall performance throughout the season.

     




    Those are the total season stats.  The Pats had 4 drops in the AFCCG and 37 for the RS, which is nearly double their RS average per game. and more than double Balts drops for the  total season.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.

     




    If you have the 22 passes more we dropped than the Ravens as catches....

     

    Brady goes up 3 spots in the QB rankings for passer rating; from 6th to 3rd, and has over 5000 yards. Goes from a 98.7 to a 103.3.

     




    Yup, true and take into account lost 3rd down conversions and it increases even more.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.

     



    If you're referring to the AFCCG, I totally agree.  I was more referring to their overall performance throughout the season.

     

     




    Those are the total season stats.  The Pats had 4 drops in the AFCCG and 37 for the RS, which is nearly double their RS average per game. and more than double Balts drops for the  total season.

     



    And, to clarify further, my original post on this thread was speaking to the point of the thread, which, as I understand it, is choosing between Welker and Hernandez.  I believe that's not really an apples to apples comparison.  My point wasn't whether or not the Pats receivers in general had fewer, the same or more drops than any other team.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.




    No, there has been many of posts on here that Welker is dropping more due to age/decline.  And that's my point.  Here the Pats have a younger TE who many people are thinking he is a lot better then he is but apparently has a higher drop percentage then an "old/declining" receiver.  Last I checked Hernandez had some big drops in the SB and against the Ravens a few weeks ago.

     

    Also, for everyone who keeps throwing up the Welker drop saying it was because of that they lost the SB, please describe to me what happened the very next play.  If you want to point fingers at a single play, instead the whole body of offensive work that was just plain horrible, then why not point fingers at the very next play?

    My points are and have always been... Drops are part of the game but it's just unfair and ignorant to say use the drop passes argument against Welker when other on the team seem to drop a higher percentage and fans seem to want to ignore that.  AND you can't put the SB or Ravens loss on Welker, that's also just plain unfair and ignorant too.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.

     



    If you're referring to the AFCCG, I totally agree.  I was more referring to their overall performance throughout the season.

     

     




    Those are the total season stats.  The Pats had 4 drops in the AFCCG and 37 for the RS, which is nearly double their RS average per game. and more than double Balts drops for the  total season.

     

     



    And, to clarify further, my original post on this thread was speaking to the point of the thread, which, as I understand it, is choosing between Welker and Hernandez.  I believe that's not really an apples to apples comparison.  My point wasn't whether or not the Pats receivers in general had fewer, the same or more drops than any other team.

     




    OK, so.....

    WW more drops, lower %, due to the increased # of attempts.

    There's really no way to compare unless the attempts are =. 

    You can only project additional drops for AH which may or may not happen with increased attempts.

    You would also have to look at where the drops occured.  Are they the high completion variety or low completion % type?  Also, when they occured.  A third down drop or a 1st, a potential game winning drive or a 1st and 10 in the second series. 

    All drops are not created =, but the total would increase the likelyhood of them being crucial.

    Nothing is ever as black or white, as it seems.

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.

     



    If you're referring to the AFCCG, I totally agree.  I was more referring to their overall performance throughout the season.

     

     




    Those are the total season stats.  The Pats had 4 drops in the AFCCG and 37 for the RS, which is nearly double their RS average per game. and more than double Balts drops for the  total season.

     

     



    And, to clarify further, my original post on this thread was speaking to the point of the thread, which, as I understand it, is choosing between Welker and Hernandez.  I believe that's not really an apples to apples comparison.  My point wasn't whether or not the Pats receivers in general had fewer, the same or more drops than any other team.

     

     




    OK, so.....

     

    WW more drops, lower %, due to the increased # of attempts.

    There's really no way to compare unless the attempts are =. 

    You can only project additional drops for AH which may or may not happen with increased attempts.

    You would also have to look at where the drops occured.  Are they the high completion variety or low completion % type?  Also, when they occured.  A third down drop or a 1st, a potential game winning drive or a 1st and 10 in the second series. 

    All drops are not created =, but the total would increase the likelyhood of them being crucial.

    Nothing is ever as black or white, as it seems.

     



    And I agree.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Aaron Hernandez: Missed time for the third straight season to start his career. His 10 drops on 106 targets (9.4 percent) led to a worse drop rate than Welker (6 percent). Still a below-average blocker. Time for him to be the star the Patriots are paying him to be.

    check out the full grading the patriots players one by one.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/02/07/grading-the-patriots-one-one-for-the-season/1WRONcrIYmCTsYIRAt8NMN/story-1.html

    ----------------

    It's probably time to squash the Welker drop talk and start the real discussion... Is Aaron Hernandez worth what he is being paid?  The don't resign Welker because he is dropping more passes is bogus and needs to be addressed with AH81 instead.

     




    This proves what I've been saying:

     

    Throw less, target each Welker and Hernandez LESS, and it helps Brady, the flow of the offense, and you'll see less drops.

    Damn, man. Your man lust for Brady and Welker is somewhat scary.

    This isn't about scapegoating one particular player it's about changing the philosophy of the offense.

     


    No more scary than your man lust for Alex Smith and BB.

     
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