For those talking about Welkers drops..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to TFB12's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Gotta be able to take you bias out the equation TFB. I dont care how about how many drops anyone has because its part of the game, its the one that COST us games that I worry about and Wes is at the top in the past 2 years in SB and AFCCG.

     

     




    No, there has been many of posts on here that Welker is dropping more due to age/decline.  And that's my point.  Here the Pats have a younger TE who many people are thinking he is a lot better then he is but apparently has a higher drop percentage then an "old/declining" receiver.  Last I checked Hernandez had some big drops in the SB and against the Ravens a few weeks ago.

     

    Also, for everyone who keeps throwing up the Welker drop saying it was because of that they lost the SB, please describe to me what happened the very next play.  If you want to point fingers at a single play, instead the whole body of offensive work that was just plain horrible, then why not point fingers at the very next play?

    My points are and have always been... Drops are part of the game but it's just unfair and ignorant to say use the drop passes argument against Welker when other on the team seem to drop a higher percentage and fans seem to want to ignore that.  AND you can't put the SB or Ravens loss on Welker, that's also just plain unfair and ignorant too.




    no, you are right, I may have been a bit too harsh regarding Wes. In the  AFCCG, he did not directly lose the game, but him getting his clock cleaned early made him unreliable and that drop on 4th down put us in a funk. However regarding the SB, I thnk you can make the argument that if he makes that catch, the game is all but over.  On your other point, I dont think the drop passes are because of age, rather his continuous pounding he takes over the middle and the impeding footsteps he is hearing combined with all the hits he has taken has made him lose focus at crucial times and frankly it may not he his fault but I think for that reason he shouldnt be the focus of the offense going forward.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to ricky12684's comment:

    ESPN's Mike Reiss believes the Patriots "might be agreeable" to a two-year, $16 million deal with free agent Wes Welker. As Reiss notes, Welker is likely hoping for more. He played out the 2012 season on a one-year, $9.515 franchise tender and recorded 118 catches for 1,354 yards with six touchdowns. Although he's just 5'9/185 and will turn 32 in May, the slot machine has missed just three games over the last six seasons and retained his short-area quickness. We'd expect Welker to test the open market.  Feb 6 - 11:29 AM  

    NO! too much! i hope wes tests the market and someone offers him more. $8 mill per is too much for the big game pants




    6 mil tops.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     regarding the SB, I thnk you can make the argument that if he makes that catch, the game is all but over.

     



    pretty much.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

     regarding the SB, I thnk you can make the argument that if he makes that catch, the game is all but over.

     

     



    pretty much.

     



    I'm also of that mindset.  The 'when' of it again.  There were 4 minutes left in the game.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    The Pats have invested heavily in their TEs.  Time to bring in some WRs to complement what they're trying to do on offense with their TE sets.  WW has been one of the constants over the past 5+ years.  He is durable, tough and productive.  If they cannot/will not re-sign him, they need to get some WR talent in here to provide a deep threat.  How they do that, I don't know.  Guys like Jennings, Bowe and Wallace (are they UFAs?) will cost a ton of dosh, and the draft is hit or miss.  The Pats haven't lit the world on fire drafting WRs lately.   

    Lloyd is more of a possession-type WR and runs lots of curls and outs.  As has been pointed out here by others, his YAC is not great, but I'd say he is worth retaining in that his rapport with Brady will likely improve and he can move the sticks.  If they decide to keep Lloyd and lose Welker, maybe Hernandez can play in the slot more.  But they need to remake their WR corps. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    And another thread heads south in the midst of a 'he's God/he sux' flame war exchange.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:

    The Pats have invested heavily in their TEs.  Time to bring in some WRs to complement what they're trying to do on offense with their TE sets.  WW has been one of the constants over the past 5+ years.  He is durable, tough and productive.  If they cannot/will not re-sign him, they need to get some WR talent in here to provide a deep threat.  How they do that, I don't know.  Guys like Jennings, Bowe and Wallace (are they UFAs?) will cost a ton of dosh, and the draft is hit or miss.  The Pats haven't lit the world on fire drafting WRs lately.   

    Lloyd is more of a possession-type WR and runs lots of curls and outs.  As has been pointed out here by others, his YAC is not great, but I'd say he is worth retaining in that his rapport with Brady will likely improve and he can move the sticks.  If they decide to keep Lloyd and lose Welker, maybe Hernandez can play in the slot more.  But they need to remake their WR corps. 



    I see this as the more likely scenario; i.e. Welker goes.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Aaron Hernandez: Missed time for the third straight season to start his career. His 10 drops on 106 targets (9.4 percent) led to a worse drop rate than Welker (6 percent). Still a below-average blocker. Time for him to be the star the Patriots are paying him to be.

    check out the full grading the patriots players one by one.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/02/07/grading-the-patriots-one-one-for-the-season/1WRONcrIYmCTsYIRAt8NMN/story-1.html

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    It's probably time to squash the Welker drop talk and start the real discussion... Is Aaron Hernandez worth what he is being paid?  The don't resign Welker because he is dropping more passes is bogus and needs to be addressed with AH81 instead.

     




    This proves what I've been saying:

     

    Throw less, target each Welker and Hernandez LESS, and it helps Brady, the flow of the offense, and you'll see less drops.

    Damn, man. Your man lust for Brady and Welker is somewhat scary.

    This isn't about scapegoating one particular player it's about changing the philosophy of the offense.

     




    This is not about TB.  It's about drops which have nothing to do with him. 

    Spin, spin, spin.

    You are one dizzy chic.

    The Pats did increase rushing attempts.  Didn't decrease a thing, as the Pats were (as a team) second worst in the league in drops, only Detroit was worse.

    There are a number of recievers that had more attempts than WW or AH and had less drops. 

    Reggie Wayne had 20 more attempts than WW and had 3 less drops.  That's nearly 30% less with more attempts.

    All the Pats recievers rated high in drops this year.  Gronk was 5/80, compared to Wayne's 8/195.  That's 6+ % for gronk compared to 4% for wayne with 2 1/2 times the attempts.  Ouch!  Kills your thrown to, too much, BS!

    I'd have to double check, but I don't believe ANY of Balts recievers had more than 4.

    HeII, the chargers only had 16 as a team compared to 41  for the Pats.  PFFT

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    So Welker's drops in big spots are not a concern any longer? oh that's great I feel better already.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    I'm not sure I'd make the Hernandez/Welker discussion an either or.  Welker has perhaps 2 good years left while Hern probably has 10 or so.  If the Pats don't sign Welker than some of what he does will migrate to Hern by default but they are two very different players.  Welker is a pure slot receiver and probably one of the best ever to play the position.  Hern is a unique player who can be used in a variety of roles.  Drops happen to the best of 'em.

     




    Drops happen to the best of them but not to this degree. 

     

    Both Hern and WW are amongst the leaders in drops, in fact the whole team was horrendous.

    For comparison, NE had 41, Balt had 19.

    WW and Hern dropped as much as the whole Balt team.

    Not good.

     



    If you're referring to the AFCCG, I totally agree.  I was more referring to their overall performance throughout the season.

     

     




    Those are the total season stats.  The Pats had 4 drops in the AFCCG and 37 for the RS, which is nearly double their RS average per game. and more than double Balts drops for the  total season.

     

     



    And, to clarify further, my original post on this thread was speaking to the point of the thread, which, as I understand it, is choosing between Welker and Hernandez.  I believe that's not really an apples to apples comparison.  My point wasn't whether or not the Pats receivers in general had fewer, the same or more drops than any other team.

     

     




    OK, so.....

     

    WW more drops, lower %, due to the increased # of attempts.

    There's really no way to compare unless the attempts are =. 

    You can only project additional drops for AH which may or may not happen with increased attempts.

    You would also have to look at where the drops occured.  Are they the high completion variety or low completion % type?  Also, when they occured.  A third down drop or a 1st, a potential game winning drive or a 1st and 10 in the second series. 

    All drops are not created =, but the total would increase the likelyhood of them being crucial.

    Nothing is ever as black or white, as it seems.

     

     




    You're a joke.  Did you just say "nothing is ever as black or white as it seems"?  You? bawahah

     

    You're a simpleton for crying out loud.  You see Brady on the field and think it's 2004 still, yet you've been shown time again his 40+ pass attempt games LOSES us games.

    Now, you're on here changing your tune? You and your buddies have ruined this board unable to admit that Brady targeting Welker, Hernandez and Gronk at the rates he does, over the middle of the field, has no effect on our putrid offenses in recent postseasons.

    What a pathetic joke you are. 

    It's a numbers game. In this case, it as black and white as it seems. Tom Brady ran more plays than any other QB in the NFL this year.  FACT.   Tom Brady, for 3 years running, has been given more drives than most teams due to literally an average of 2 turnovers per game that he's been given.

    Yet, somehow this is a complex thing?

    LMAO

    The more you do something, the more the odds go up you'll get more hits, or in this case, MORE DROPS.

    I've been warning of this here for over 2 years and you morons keep pissing in the wind. Now, you want to pay Welker as much or more than Hernandez to keep making sure we see the same post season results?

    If Welker wants to win a SB, he'll come forward and realize he needs to be targeted less than he has been and will defer some cash to help the running game and the perimeter WRs here.

    Add a legit perimeter WR and an all purpose FB to the roster with the idea to target Welker and Hernandez less. The main reason why these guys get targeted so much is because they get open the fastest, but they also represent the extension of our run game. 

    It clearly has been a failure especially in the postseason.  

    Offer Welker 12 over 2 years (2013 and 2014) and 8 in 2015 when the cap goes up.  Take it or leave it.

    If he is that good and deserves that money at age 32, 33 and 34, he'd have earned almost 30 million dollars in his 30s.

    The last thing we need are people with egos running around this team after failing in the last 2 postseasons.

    As Kraft said, it takes 2 sides to make a deal.

     

     




    Says the guy or gal, who only determines the success of a team by the number of picks a qb throws, and never takes ito account the drops, RB failures, ST failures, the D they play or the biggest elephant of all, one of the worst NFL Defenses the world has ever known.   BWAHAHA  The biggest joke on this forum is YOU and it's not even close!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to RockScully's comment:


    This proves what I've been saying:

     

    Throw less, target each Welker and Hernandez LESS, and it helps Brady, the flow of the offense, and you'll see less drops.

    Damn, man. Your man lust for Brady and Welker is somewhat scary.

    This isn't about scapegoating one particular player it's about changing the philosophy of the offense.

     



    How can you throw less to Welker when really, he is the main guy on the field.  I believe they were throwing less to him when Gronk was out there but Gronk went down and out.  Hernandez didn't play the whole season and Lloyd really didn't do what we all hoped he would do.  So who do you suggest they throw to when Gronk and Hernandez and even Edelman are out and Lloyd cant seem to get open?  Welker is the teams most dependable receiver so they gotta throw to him.  I can't believe you do not understand this.  You are blinded by your Welker hate!  You are wearing rose colored glasses, pal.

    The drop %'s argument is silly.  Throw less so he drops less yet the % remains the same is your stance?  What??  Makes no sense, especially when he is the main target because there isn't anyone else on the field as much as he is.

    Can you imagine for a minute what last season wouold have looked like had the not franchised Welker and went with Edelman?  He didn't last long, Gronk out, Hernandez out a lot, it would have been dreadful.  Yet you want to get rid of the guy?  Brilliant! 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman3. Show Patsman3's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    Sorry TB, just because Herdz has hands of stone doesnt mean that excuses Welker.  As mentioned before, if Herdz continues like that, he won't be in NE long either.  Welker drops also come at the WORST times, the Peyton Manning of WR's, is not a good rep to be getting.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from pezz4pats. Show pezz4pats's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to RockScully's comment:

    In response to pezz4pats' comment:

     

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Aaron Hernandez: Missed time for the third straight season to start his career. His 10 drops on 106 targets (9.4 percent) led to a worse drop rate than Welker (6 percent). Still a below-average blocker. Time for him to be the star the Patriots are paying him to be.

    check out the full grading the patriots players one by one.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/02/07/grading-the-patriots-one-one-for-the-season/1WRONcrIYmCTsYIRAt8NMN/story-1.html

    ----------------

    It's probably time to squash the Welker drop talk and start the real discussion... Is Aaron Hernandez worth what he is being paid?  The don't resign Welker because he is dropping more passes is bogus and needs to be addressed with AH81 instead.

     




    This proves what I've been saying:

     

    Throw less, target each Welker and Hernandez LESS, and it helps Brady, the flow of the offense, and you'll see less drops.

    Damn, man. Your man lust for Brady and Welker is somewhat scary.

    This isn't about scapegoating one particular player it's about changing the philosophy of the offense.

     

     




    This is not about TB.  It's about drops which have nothing to do with him. 

     

    Spin, spin, spin.

    You are one dizzy chic.

    The Pats did increase rushing attempts.  Didn't decrease a thing, as the Pats were (as a team) second worst in the league in drops, only Detroit was worse.

    There are a number of recievers that had more attempts than WW or AH and had less drops. 

    Reggie Wayne had 20 more attempts than WW and had 3 less drops.  That's nearly 30% less with more attempts.

    All the Pats recievers rated high in drops this year.  Gronk was 5/80, compared to Wayne's 8/195.  That's 6+ % for gronk compared to 4% for wayne with 2 1/2 times the attempts.  Ouch!  Kills your thrown to, too much, BS!

    I'd have to double check, but I don't believe ANY of Balts recievers had more than 4.

    HeII, the chargers only had 16 as a team compared to 41  for the Pats.  PFFT

     



    I am supposedly a chick, but you openly show us that you blister yourself to the thoughts of Tom Brady naked in your basement? Isn't that something. Two grown men openly defending the legacy of Tom Brady on a messageboard. My god.

     

    Christ, we just saw Babe admit he would "gladly" wash Brady's balls for him. Now, it's time for your step forward and do the same so this board can move on without you two psychos.

     

     




    Typical, crusty beard.  Resorts to basements and ballwashers when bludgeoned.

    Biggest joke by far!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    welker has carried the offense for 5 seasons....he has had some key drops...but overall he has been excellent. i hope the patriots keep him, but another team will gladly give him the money if the pats wont. the pats better sign or acquire another good receiver if they dont re-sign welker.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sporter81. Show sporter81's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    welker has carried the offense for 5 seasons....he has had some key drops...but overall he has been excellent. i hope the patriots keep him, but another team will gladly give him the money if the pats wont. the pats better sign or acquire another good receiver if they dont re-sign welker.



    Welker has had some huge drops, no doubt about that but he's made more huge catches on 3rd down keeping drives alive. The offense isn't as good without him, he's a great slot reciever who can get open better than just about anyone in the league. I hope they keep him. I'd like to see them draft a fast reciever who gets open and can catch the ball. Its been a few years since they had someone like that. Lloyd is not a number 1 IMO. I'd like them to keep Welker but not to have Brady target him so much. There were plays where another player was wide open only to have Brady force it to Welker incomplete. Years back Brady didn't have the best recievers but he did a great job of mixing it up, throwing to who ever was open, that along with a good running game made them very tough to beat. . Just my thoughts on this here. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    Calvin Johnson was 2nd in the league in drops last year. Detroit should cut him.

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreighver. Show dreighver's posts

    Re: For those talking about Welkers drops..

    In response to RockScully's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    Aaron Hernandez: Missed time for the third straight season to start his career. His 10 drops on 106 targets (9.4 percent) led to a worse drop rate than Welker (6 percent). Still a below-average blocker. Time for him to be the star the Patriots are paying him to be.

    check out the full grading the patriots players one by one.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2013/02/07/grading-the-patriots-one-one-for-the-season/1WRONcrIYmCTsYIRAt8NMN/story-1.html

    ----------------

    It's probably time to squash the Welker drop talk and start the real discussion... Is Aaron Hernandez worth what he is being paid?  The don't resign Welker because he is dropping more passes is bogus and needs to be addressed with AH81 instead.

     




    This proves what I've been saying:

     

    Throw less, target each Welker and Hernandez LESS, and it helps Brady, the flow of the offense, and you'll see less drops.

    Damn, man. Your man lust for Brady and Welker is somewhat scary.

    This isn't about scapegoating one particular player it's about changing the philosophy of the offense.

     

     



    Oh my god... bwahahahaha! That bolded part... that can't be made up! Did you really just say that?! The irony is priceless.

     

    HAHA!

     
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