Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

     I don't know if any one has noticed but all 3 Linebackers are tearing it up at this level:
    1) Brian Cushing ................Dallas Texans
    2) Clay Mathews................Green Bay Packers
    3) Ray  Maliuga..................Cincinatti Bengals
    I believe all three were availible to us in the draft and we took a pass...
    One of the most glaring weaknesses on the Patriots is at outside linebacker where both Cushing and Mathews excell for their teams...
    My personal favorite was Brian Cushing who I just KNEW we were going to draft with our first round pick !!  Cushing and Mathews play outside while Maliuga is in the middle for ther respective teams....
    Right now Cushing has 99 tackles already...is a serious candidate for the Pro-Bowl and seems like a lock for defensive rookie of the year !! We have three free-agent linebackers, Thomas ,Burgess and Guyton who combined dont have 99 tackles thus far !! If you ever watched Maliuga and Mathews play for their teams you can see why their Coaches are thrilled with their performance also.....You can be the best jockey in the race but you have to have a good horse under you to win !!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    Belichick knows LBs. I think the only Lb he wanted was Ayers or Barwin (were invited to private workouts) at OLB. Once they were gone BB decided to draft elsewhere and at other positions. The Texans and Packers are mediocre teams and Cinnci could be a pretender just as easily as a contender. Hindsight is always 20/20 vision; any team could look back and say "we should have taken that player instead of this player". 25 teams passed on Ray Lewis in the 95 draft (?) and nearly all would want him at ILB/MLB right now. For every Ray Lewis or Ray Malauga there is a dozen Keith Mc Cants. The draft is a crap shoot at best.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    "Belichick knows LBs"

    But can he pick good one's?

          Hits                      Neutral               Misses
    Bryan Cox                    Colvin                   TBC
    Roman Phifer                  JR                  Chad Brown
    Mike Vrabel                 Don Davis           Monty Beisel
    Larry Izzo                    Guyton             Eric Alexander
                                      Mayo               Corey Mays
                                                            Pierre Woods
                                                            Shawn Crabel
                                                            TJ Turner
                                                             Ryan Claridge
                                                            Jeremy Mincey
                                                            Justin Rogers
                                                            Oscar Lua
                                                             Bo Ruud
                                                             Adalius Thomas
                                                            Derick Burgess
                                                            (That guy from the Jets
                                                            we cut in camp a few 
                                                             years ago)


    There are a lot of duds on the list.                                
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from uncommon-sense. Show uncommon-sense's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues:
    "Belichick knows LBs" But can he pick good one's?       Hits                       Neutral                Misses Bryan Cox                    Colvin                   TBC Roman Phifer                  JR                  Chad Brown Mike Vrabel                 Don Davis           Monty Beisel Larry Izzo                    Guyton             Eric Alexander                                   Mayo               Corey Mays                                                         Pierre Woods                                                         Shawn Crabel                                                         TJ Turner                                                          Ryan Claridge                                                         Jeremy Mincey                                                         Justin Rogers                                                         Oscar Lua                                                          Bo Ruud                                                          Adalius Thomas                                                         Derick Burgess                                                         (That guy from the Jets                                                         we cut in camp a few                                                           years ago) There are a lot of duds on the list.                                 
    Posted by K-max



    I think you have to look at those names in the proper context.

    Woods and Alexander - Undrafted
    Colvin - 2 major injuries after signing with Pats
    TBC - might not strike fear in anybody but hardly a miss for a 7th round pick
    AD - Maybe this year he is horrible but he played well in 07+08 its his contract that pisses people off.
    Oscar Lua - career ending knee injury during 1st preseason and a 7th rounder pick
    Justin Rogers got picked up his rookie year and has played for Cowboys multiple years. Pats didn't have a roster spot and couldn't sneak him onto the Practice Squad

    Burgess was traded for out of desperation when Taylor took less money to play in Miami and McKenzie was lost at rookie camp. Yes it was a bad trade but in its context you can understand why.

    Crable is a bust but his college tape shows his athleticism.

    Other guys like Ruud, Mincey and Mays were drafted late 5th round and later... not surprising they didn't pan out.

    I say Junior and Guyton have been much better than Nuetral.

    Izzo and Davis were never aquired to be starters but special teamers... you need to include club expectations in your analysis.

    All in All yeah Chad Brown and Monty were busts.

    The Pats haven't been as bad as you think... they have really been unlucky though. Many injuries... at bad times. Colvin broken hip, Seau broken arm, AD broken arm during a productive season.... these things you cannot predict and cannot be blamed on BB.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasonh86. Show jasonh86's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    Even though he's stayed on IR for the last 2 years, I wouldn't label Crable a bust just yet.  The guy could be a monster pass-rusher once he gets healthy (if he ever does).. and BB must see something in him that he likes in order to keep him around still.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    I wonder how many players get drafted and wash out of the NFL within 5 years.  I'll bet misses are much more common than hits.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptainZdeno33. Show CaptainZdeno33's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    Cushing went 15th to Houston, the Pats had the 23rd pick.  Matthews and Maualuga were available to the Pats but Bel decided trading down and taking Chung was a better option.  We'll just have to wait a few years to find out.  Cushing sure looks like a beast in Houston, they've built quite a LB corps with DeMeco Ryans and Cushing.  I haven't seen much of Matthews or Maualuga but as of right now I'm happy with Chung, has all the tools to be a solid safety, hopefully he starts getting some more PT soon!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues:
    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues : I think you have to look at those names in the proper context. Woods and Alexander - Undrafted Colvin - 2 major injuries after signing with Pats TBC - might not strike fear in anybody but hardly a miss for a 7th round pick AD - Maybe this year he is horrible but he played well in 07+08 its his contract that pisses people off. Oscar Lua - career ending knee injury during 1st preseason and a 7th rounder pick Justin Rogers got picked up his rookie year and has played for Cowboys multiple years. Pats didn't have a roster spot and couldn't sneak him onto the Practice Squad Burgess was traded for out of desperation when Taylor took less money to play in Miami and McKenzie was lost at rookie camp. Yes it was a bad trade but in its context you can understand why. Crable is a bust but his college tape shows his athleticism. Other guys like Ruud, Mincey and Mays were drafted late 5th round and later... not surprising they didn't pan out. I say Junior and Guyton have been much better than Nuetral. Izzo and Davis were never aquired to be starters but special teamers... you need to include club expectations in your analysis. All in All yeah Chad Brown and Monty were busts. The Pats haven't been as bad as you think... they have really been unlucky though. Many injuries... at bad times. Colvin broken hip, Seau broken arm, AD broken arm during a productive season.... these things you cannot predict and cannot be blamed on BB.
    Posted by uncommon-sense



    sense,  I know and understand exactly what your saying.  I just put together a quick hitter list.  Two things though.

    1) Luck, good or bad, can't be taken out of the equation.  Hell everyday people get fired, go to jail and even die due to bad luck.

    2) There is no grading on a curve.  It doesn't matter what round a player was or wasen't drafted.  Everyone on the roster is evaluated equally and solely on performance.

    In my opinion (whatever that may be worth) BB had great success early acquiring FA.  We were winning Super Bowls with Cox and Phifer and BB hit the mother load with Vrabel.  I think this success made him believe that he can always acquire great FA thus there was no need to draft LB's high.


    Unfortunately all it takes is a few FA misses to set a franchise back a few years (where I believe we are now).  Hopefully BB will review the data and change his draft philosophy moving forward.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrooklineRob. Show BrooklineRob's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues:
    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues : I think you have to look at those names in the proper context. Woods and Alexander - Undrafted Colvin - 2 major injuries after signing with Pats TBC - might not strike fear in anybody but hardly a miss for a 7th round pick AD - Maybe this year he is horrible but he played well in 07+08 its his contract that pisses people off. Oscar Lua - career ending knee injury during 1st preseason and a 7th rounder pick Justin Rogers got picked up his rookie year and has played for Cowboys multiple years. Pats didn't have a roster spot and couldn't sneak him onto the Practice Squad Burgess was traded for out of desperation when Taylor took less money to play in Miami and McKenzie was lost at rookie camp. Yes it was a bad trade but in its context you can understand why. Crable is a bust but his college tape shows his athleticism. Other guys like Ruud, Mincey and Mays were drafted late 5th round and later... not surprising they didn't pan out. I say Junior and Guyton have been much better than Nuetral. Izzo and Davis were never aquired to be starters but special teamers... you need to include club expectations in your analysis. All in All yeah Chad Brown and Monty were busts. The Pats haven't been as bad as you think... they have really been unlucky though. Many injuries... at bad times. Colvin broken hip, Seau broken arm, AD broken arm during a productive season.... these things you cannot predict and cannot be blamed on BB.
    Posted by uncommon-sense


    I agree with this post completely.  Context always kills an argument made at face value. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues:
    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues : sense,  I know and understand exactly what your saying.  I just put together a quick hitter list.  Two things though. 1) Luck, good or bad, can't be taken out of the equation.  Hell everyday people get fired, go to jail and even die due to bad luck. 2) There is no grading on a curve.  It doesn't matter what round a player was or wasen't drafted.  Everyone on the roster is evaluated equally and solely on performance. In my opinion (whatever that may be worth) BB had great success early acquiring FA.  We were winning Super Bowls with Cox and Phifer and BB hit the mother load with Vrabel.  I think this success made him believe that he can always acquire great FA thus there was no need to draft LB's high. Unfortunately all it takes is a few FA misses to set a franchise back a few years (where I believe we are now).  Hopefully BB will review the data and change his draft philosophy moving forward.
    Posted by K-max
    K-MAX.....EXACTLY!!! I am in complete agreement with you....
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bryanwiener. Show bryanwiener's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues:
    "Belichick knows LBs" But can he pick good one's?       Hits                       Neutral                Misses Bryan Cox                    Colvin                   TBC Roman Phifer                  JR                  Chad Brown Mike Vrabel                 Don Davis           Monty Beisel Larry Izzo                    Guyton             Eric Alexander                                   Mayo               Corey Mays                                                         Pierre Woods                                                         Shawn Crabel                                                         TJ Turner                                                          Ryan Claridge                                                         Jeremy Mincey                                                         Justin Rogers                                                         Oscar Lua                                                          Bo Ruud                                                          Adalius Thomas                                                         Derick Burgess                                                         (That guy from the Jets                                                         we cut in camp a few                                                           years ago) There are a lot of duds on the list.                                 
    Posted by K-max


    Mayo's NEUTRAL?  If Mayo's neutral you are an idiot
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from NickC1188. Show NickC1188's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    The question isn't whether the player looks good playing for another team.

    The question is WHETHER THE PLAYER COULD PLAY IN THE PATRIOTS' SYSTEM.  
    -> For the Patriots, Maualuga was considered a two-down linebacker who would be a liability against the pass.  Throw in character concerns and a tendency on film to freelance and overrun the ball and you can see why he would be a bad fit for the Patriots' scheme despite his hitting.  The Bengals might run a system where he's free to roam, but the Patriots stress just doing your job (It was the safeties biting on plays and not doing their jobs that cost the Patriots so dearly against the Saints).
    -> I don't know too much about Cushing.

    The other question is whether the production that the Patriots could get out of each player in their system is worth what they could get as an alternative.  Could they get something better instead?  Or a lot of other almost-as-good somethings that could help them more across multiple positions?

    In this case, they traded picks and ultimately ended up with Butler, Chung, Tate, and Edelman.

    I think the trade was worth it.  It brought slightly less value to each of the other positions, but more value overall because I think at least two if not all four will end up being decent players and contributors.

    Besides, draft prospects are black swan events.  It wasn't considered possible to draft a Hall of Fame quarterback in the 6th round until the Patriots did it.  Same goes for a host of other players.  All things made relatively equal, it's better to diversify and get as many prospects that you regard highly as possible.

    Under this same notion of being fooled by randomness, I bet Tyrone McKenzie sees the field as an OLB next year.  It's just a hunch.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rocher. Show rocher's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    I too wanted a USC LBer in the draft and was disappointed the Pats did not grab one. Rey M was was PAC 10 defensive player of the year..and USC had the best defense in college football last year.
    I think it was a mistake not to draft any of them. You can have Chung. I'm not sold.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from K-max. Show K-max's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues:
    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues : Mayo's NEUTRAL?  If Mayo's neutral you are an idiot
    Posted by bryanwiener



    Mayo was excellent last year and playing below average this year.  So to date (small sample size) 1 good and 1 bad = Neutral (average).  It's not a bad thing.  He is no Ted Johnson or Teddy B yet.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from flip781. Show flip781's posts

    Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues

    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues:
    In Response to Re: Former U S C.Linebackers of last years draft Tearing it up in the Big Leagues : Mayo's NEUTRAL?  If Mayo's neutral you are an idiot
    Posted by bryanwiener
      You know because on this site you have the ability to call people names from behind a computer when they voice their honest opinions it promotes little yellow rats like yourself that resort to name calling !!
    KMAX is a knowledgeble football fan...I know cause I am a knowledgible fan !!
    I don't always agree with him but I respect his opinion because of his insight!!
    .I don't  hide either like a little girl and throw darts...my picture is right there with my opinion... In my opinion the jury is still out on Mayo...He had a great rookie season but has been very ordinary this year as KMAX said...I run on week-ends 9:am at Castle Island in Southie ...We can discuss our disagreement or there are plenty of places you can hide with your little sling- shot!!
     
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