Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    It could happen.  The new CBA changed the highest compensation for a Restricted Free Agent as a first round pick (used to be 1st and 3rd).  Assuming Houston and Pittsburgh restrict Arian Foster and Mike Wallace at the highest tender and not use their franchise tag, either player can sign an offer sheet to any team with their current team having right of first refusal.  If the current team matches, they keep the player, if not, the acquiring team surrenders a first round pick.

    Houston is in cap prison and no team is worse off than Pittsburgh when it comes to their cap situation, although Pittsburgh has restructured some deals to get closer, they are still $10MM over the cap.  Houston has Ben Tate so losing Foster won't be fatal but to tag him would cost $8MM and they don't have the cap space without cutting somewhere else.  Houston is already facing the loss of Mario Williams who is too expensive to tag.  PIT has already said they aren't bringing back Hines Ward so they cannot afford to lose Wallace.

    The Bengals' best back is Cedric Benson who turns 29 and is a free agent and is clearly on the decline.  They have tons of cap space and they have two first round picks.  Making a play for Foster makes a ton of sense for them.  The Patriots biggest need on offense is a deep threat WR.  They too have plenty of cap space and also have two first round picks.  So if any two teams can afford to do this in terms of draft picks and cap, it is the Bengals and Patriots.

    If the Bengals and Patriots offer Foster and Wallace a front loaded deal, it would be very difficult for the Texans and Steelers to match.  The Steelers are probably already going to cut Larry Foote and James Farrior and are not bringing back Hines Ward or James Harrison.  Forcing them to spend big money on Wallace now instead of the $2.7MM he'd earn as a RFA may force them to also cut Aaron Smith and Casey Hampton and possibly having to decide between keeping Wallace or Polamalu.  PIT may opt to just take pick 31 and go draft Mohamad Sanu since they need the cap space.  Sanu is no Wallace.  In fact there isn't any WR in the draft who can runs better than 4.34 where Wallace ran a 4.26 at his Combine.  There really isn't any WR in the league who can take the top off a defense better than Wallace and again, this was the missing ingredient on offense for the Patriots.

    There also isn't any player in the draft at 31 or 21 for that matter who is better than Arian Foster or Mike Wallace.  Both players would be top 10 picks if they were in the draft, so at least making an offer makes a ton of sense.  Worst case CIN and NE force AFC rivals and fellow play-off teams HOU and PIT to spend big bucks at a time where they need to cut and likely force them to lose other talent.  Best case they strip an elite player and weaken their opponents while improving their own talent. 

    The players would be foolish not to sign the offer sheet because they have no leverage without it and could earn 10 times the guaranteed money with a new contract now vs. waiting another year, risking career ending injuries, to become unrestricted.  It's a no lose proposition for both CIN and NE regardless of the outcomes.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    Faucet, Wallace isn't coming to NE. I'll donate a whole paycheck to Myra's fund if the Pats get Wallace
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]Faucet, Wallace isn't coming to NE. I'll donate a whole paycheck to Myra's fund if the Pats get Wallace
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Well, not about the paycheck.

    PIT is already getting ready to jettison Ward, others will follow. The ONLY way I see the Pats getting Wallace is to get him an offer the first day they can, and force PITs hand. Even then, they'll match. They'll cut who they need to cut, and they will match. At least then, maybe you could make it a very uncomfortable contract for them.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]Faucet, Wallace isn't coming to NE. I'll donate a whole paycheck to Myra's fund if the Pats get Wallace
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    I know.  But I can't stop thinking about the need to at least make Wallace an offer.  Just make the offer and force PIT to spend to keep him.  That's what I want to see happen. 

    PIT is already going to look very different next year.  No James Harrison, no Hines Ward, no Larry Foote, no Casey Hampton.  Hampton needs surgery to repair a torn ACL plus he turns 35 this year.  They already lost NT Chris Hoke to neck surgery leaving only 2nd year man Steve McLendon at nose tackle.  I know, who?  

    PIT is the second oldest team and while Wallace is young, they may decide that they need to get younger and spend less and use pick 31 on Poe.  I'm thinking they probably will take Hightower at 24 since they are thin at LB, or will be.  PIT cannot afford to go out and sign any high priced free agents because they can't even keep a lot of their own.

    Forget about us getting Wallace.  It would be great if it happened.  I'm saying let's force PIT to spend $8MM instead of $2.7MM to keep Wallace because they will have to make cuts elsewhere.  Believe me, this extra $5.3MM in spending will have to result in a tough decision, keeping Wallace or perhaps a certain stud safety or making a bunch of other wholesale cuts.  By offering Wallace a contract, we could force PIT into a decline to the point where they might not even make the play-offs next year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE? : Agreed. Well, not about the paycheck. PIT is already getting ready to jettison Ward, others will follow. The ONLY way I see the Pats getting Wallace is to get him an offer the first day they can, and force PITs hand. Even then, they'll match. They'll cut who they need to cut, and they will match. At least then, maybe you could make it a very uncomfortable contract for them.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]
    Exactly, thanks for your support on this idea.  Perhaps PIT is ready to sign Wallace to a long term deal.  That's fine but let's make sure they do it this year when they can least afford it.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    That's not a great game to play because it can just as easily backfire. There are some teams out there who will attempt to go after Wallace. Maybe a team like Clev or Cinn who could use a WR and have multi 1st picks. It would also be stealing a weapon away from a division rival. I just don't like playing a game to offer a contract to a player just to force another teams hand. Most of the time that strategy tends to backfire as other teams look down on that action and do the same thing back to you. Don't forget how Minn was treated after the poison pill they created for Hutchinson. The Pats did the same thing with the exception that they gave Mia extra picks on top of what they would have normally gotten for the poison pill.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]That's not a great game to play because it can just as easily backfire. There are some teams out there who will attempt to go after Wallace. Maybe a team like Clev or Cinn who could use a WR and have multi 1st picks. It would also be stealing a weapon away from a division rival. I just don't like playing a game to offer a contract to a player just to force another teams hand. Most of the time that strategy tends to backfire as other teams look down on that action and do the same thing back to you. Don't forget how Minn was treated after the poison pill they created for Hutchinson. The Pats did the same thing with the exception that they gave Mia extra picks on top of what they would have normally gotten for the poison pill.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    No poison pill needed this time.  A front loaded deal is poison enough.  I think we offer a contract that we value as fair, regardless of what it is.  Any amount PIT needs to spend above $2.7MM is a victory.  I'm not sure other teams without multiple first round picks would jump into this, but perhaps Tampa would.  Cleveland's first is way too high for them to do it.  CIN has bigger needs at RB, that's why I suggest they go after Foster.

    We are in a great position to do it.  PIT is a perennial SB contender and a huge AFC rival.  With Indy and the Jets on the decline, other than maybe BAL, is there a bigger AFC rival than PIT year over year?  Why would we not try to knock them back if we could? 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    You are obsess with Wallace, it is not healthy Faucet let it go lmao
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]That's not a great game to play because it can just as easily backfire. There are some teams out there who will attempt to go after Wallace. Maybe a team like Clev or Cinn who could use a WR and have multi 1st picks. It would also be stealing a weapon away from a division rival. I just don't like playing a game to offer a contract to a player just to force another teams hand. Most of the time that strategy tends to backfire as other teams look down on that action and do the same thing back to you. Don't forget how Minn was treated after the poison pill they created for Hutchinson. The Pats did the same thing with the exception that they gave Mia extra picks on top of what they would have normally gotten for the poison pill.
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    if it backfires we get the fastest WR in the league and cripple Pitt,
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE? : if it backfires we get the fastest WR in the league and cripple Pitt,
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]

    At the expense of falling into a NYJ issue in the following years or at the expense of signing other top end FA's on the D side. Lets face it if you replaced Branch with Lloyd and a healthy Gronk with Ridley and maybe a Vereen on the field there is no way the Giants would have won this past SB. There is no reason to go crazy on the O side when there are far more issues needing to be fixed on the D side
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jc686. Show jc686's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    I like this idea.  Hopefully the front office does too.  Don't forget, Wallace and the Law Firm are best buddies too.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]You are obsess with Wallace, it is not healthy Faucet let it go lmao
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]
    I know, I can't help it:).

    I want Lloyd too but let's face it, Lloyd is just a slightly younger version of Branch.  he isn't going to stretch the field.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE? : I know, I can't help it:). I want Lloyd too but let's face it, Lloyd is just a slightly younger version of Branch.  he isn't going to stretch the field.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Do you need someone to stretch the field vertically or will horizontally work too though? Lets face it Lloyd might not stretch the field vertically but leaving him 1v1 on the outside with no S help over top is very dangerous. Heck how many times has he broken out long plays being dbl'd on the outside in 10' and 11'? The whole idea of stretching the field is to pull a defender from the middle and having a S lean towards the sideline to dbl up Lloyd on the outside can actually be more affective then having one deep down field. For one it does give Hern and Gronk extra space to work with, but for 2 a S has to play closer to the line and the sideline so if Hern cuts a seem there isn't a S playing deep to grab the angle. It's like a PA affect but where the S comes up and towards the sideline instead of just up in the box.

    Don't discount what affect stretching the field horizontally over vertically
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    Arian Foster in NE is worth a serious look. Some of the need for a reciever would diminish with that kind of run game. Of course, it'd take a truckload to sign him. That's the downside--need help on D, and need the money.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    I never meant to offer a contract simply to drive up the price. I mean figure out the max, top dollar contract that works for the Pats, and offer it.

    Arian Foster - Personally, I just like Vereen and Ridley, and would like to see a REAL season. It's not a true rookie year when there are no offseason camps, no real preseason camps, and limited preseason games. With a FULL offseason, I see no reason to spend big on a FA RB when they just spent 2 draft picks.

    The Pats already spread the field horizontally enough:

    Gronk/Hernandez/Welker/Branch/Edelman and they do throw to RBs. Even losing Welker and they have plenty of horizontal threats.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]I never meant to offer a contract simply to drive up the price. I mean figure out the max, top dollar contract that works for the Pats, and offer it. Arian Foster - Personally, I just like Vereen and Ridley, and would like to see a REAL season. It's not a true rookie year when there are no offseason camps, no real preseason camps, and limited preseason games. With a FULL offseason, I see no reason to spend big on a FA RB when they just spent 2 draft picks. The Pats already spread the field horizontally enough: Gronk/Hernandez/Welker/Branch/Edelman and they do throw to RBs. Even losing Welker and they have plenty of horizontal threats.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    Horizontal means throws outside the numbers. The vast majority of Gronks, Hern, Welkers, and Branches come within the numbers. This is shown when the opponents keep man coverage outside the numbers but zone inside the numbers. Stretching the field horizontally typically means sideline throws on go's, stint's, posts, and hooks and forcing D's to not play single man on the outside
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    More on PIT's situation.

    Their two nose tackles are 35, Hampton and Hoke.  Hoke just had neck surgery and Hampton has a torn ACL.  Both could be gone.  I don't know who PIT is going to find to play NT as the only other player at NT on the depth chart is Steve McLendon who is an undersized 2nd year guy from Troy with little experience.  PIT has no cap to get a decent F/A and outside Poe or Ta'amu there isn't any quality early in the draft? 

    I think PITs standing as the top defense is about to end.  Everything starts up front and no nose tackle, is not good.  On second thought, I guess they could move Ziggy Hood to nose but Keisel is likely gone so they would be starting Heyward at one DE and who is at the other?  According to their depth chart it would be Al Woods who only appeared in two games last year and is a nobody.

    Pittsburgh has perhaps bigger problems at LB.  With Farrior and Foote sure to be released that leaves just Timmons at one ILB spot.  With James Harrison set to depart, that leaves Woodley and Worilds at OLB with rookie Chris Carter as the only back up.

    The Steelers problems in the secondary aren't as bad but they are bad.  Ike Taylor just restructured so he's set at one CB position but William Gay is expected to go and McFadden has already been released.  That leaves a pair of rookies in Cortez Allen and Curtis Brown at the other corner position.  They are set at S with Polamalu and Clark returning but Polamalu will likely need to restructure his deal as will Roethlisberger to have any chance at keeping Mike Wallace.

    In summary, PIT needs a new starting NT or DE, a ILB and a CB with virtually no depth behind any of these positions.  Their problems on the OL are well documented too.  They have 3 starters who could walk.  Big Ben could be running, or should I say, limping for his life next year.

    This Pittsburgh defense will have a whole new look next year and I could see it falling off dramatically even with Dick LeBeau.  They waited too long to start a youth movement IMO.  This is why CIN or us should press the issue with Wallace and make them spend.  Obviously CIN has more at stake being in the division.  Someone might actually be doing PIT a favor by giving them another 1st round pick and helping them free up some cap by not keeping Wallace.  Wow, these guys are in trouble and someone whether it is us, CIN or someone else like TB should give them a little shove.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE? : Do you need someone to stretch the field vertically or will horizontally work too though? Lets face it Lloyd might not stretch the field vertically but leaving him 1v1 on the outside with no S help over top is very dangerous. Heck how many times has he broken out long plays being dbl'd on the outside in 10' and 11'? The whole idea of stretching the field is to pull a defender from the middle and having a S lean towards the sideline to dbl up Lloyd on the outside can actually be more affective then having one deep down field. For one it does give Hern and Gronk extra space to work with, but for 2 a S has to play closer to the line and the sideline so if Hern cuts a seem there isn't a S playing deep to grab the angle. It's like a PA affect but where the S comes up and towards the sideline instead of just up in the box. Don't discount what affect stretching the field horizontally over vertically
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]
    I'm with you on Lloyd.  He would be a nice upgrade over Branch, not Ocho.  Lloyd is 2 years younger than Branch and I would put Branch's $2.2MM salary towards Lloyd.  Ocho was supposed to be our vertical threat even though he lost a step.  Wallace over Ocho would be like an insane upgrade but so would Foster over BJGE.

    I know we need more help on D.  But it is clear that there are only two potential RFA's worth the contract and the 1st round pick and they are Foster and Wallace.  To me giving up pick 31 for either of these guys would have way more of a dramatic improvement affect than anyone we could draft at the 31 position on defense.  Besides, I'm pretty sure we will improve the defense this off season with other moves.

    If we don't go after Wallace, I hope someone else does because this is a golden opportunity to really knock them down a few pegs.   
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]Arian Foster in NE is worth a serious look. Some of the need for a reciever would diminish with that kind of run game. Of course, it'd take a truckload to sign him. That's the downside--need help on D, and need the money.
    Posted by TheExaminer[/QUOTE]
    I think you are right in that Foster would probably be the better choice to give us a more balanced attack.  I'm not so sure to sign either of these guys would be that expensive.  Keep in mind, both players would only get a 1 year deal worth less than $3MM if they took the RFA contract.  If we were to offer a 4 year, $30MM deal and guarantee $20MM they would be in a whole lot better place getting nearly 10 X the money vs. risk a career ending injury.

    As far as the D goes, we would still have enough cap to sign 2 quality players depending on other moves we could make, plus still have 3 of the top 63 draft picks.  For instance, if we released Matt Light, that would free up $5MM of cap.  Assuming Vollmer is healthy we start him and Solder with Cannon backing up.  We might be able to part ways with Light, let him test the market and perhaps bring him back on a $3MM one year deal or something.  At some point the torch needs to get passed to our #1 pick.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    The real team to worry about is the Ravens followed closely by SD,what are their cap situations looking like? those are the two teams you want stretching their dollars and losing additional weapons in the process.JMO!!!!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    I love this thread, because it (although a dream and won't happen due to our value approach to everything) allows you to see/imagine just how explosive our offense would be with a guy like Wallace in it. How could you stop an offense like that? Superior tight ends inside and a true flanker on the outside...I'd love to see it.

    Even though we won't get Wallace, we need someone like him.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrueChamp. Show TrueChamp's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    In Response to Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?:
    [QUOTE]I love this thread, because it (although a dream and won't happen due to our value approach to everything) allows you to see/imagine just how explosive our offense would be with a guy like Wallace in it. How could you stop an offense like that? Superior tight ends inside and a true flanker on the outside...I'd love to see it. Even though we won't get Wallace, we need someone like him.
    Posted by mthurl[/QUOTE]

    Brady would have to be able to throw the deep ball better then he has for the last 3 seasons if we were to appropriately use 60 minutes talent.

    This offense would be unstoppable if it had/used a real run game. Then teams would never know what was coming. When a defense is forced to account for a run game Brady is unstoppable.

    When a  defense knows we will pass 2.5 or 3-1 then we become much easier to defend against....like any offense.

    5,235 passing yards and 39 tds tell me we don't need Mike Wallace as much as we need to utilize a damn run game.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    Oops!


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tartarus12. Show tartarus12's posts

    Re: Foster to CIN; Wallace to NE?

    What happens if the Pats sign Wallace to a mega deal and he can't understand the playbook? What if he doesn't know where to lineup in the no-huddle? What if he's just like Ocho? What then?
     
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