Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    I didn't think Welker was an option, didn't think Talib was an option but I thought for sure Seabass would be tagged. 


    Maybe things are going good on the contract talks.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JRABBB. Show JRABBB's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to JRABBB's comment:

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?




    hey Leon, how many intelligent things have you posted on here since you've been here? by my count, you're still at zero.

    TFB12 contributes more to this board than you will ever contribute to anything in your useless life.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    I think I am nervous on the Talib situation. I believe his agent feels big offers will be available, and Talib does not need another 1 year deal with the Pats...

    Obviously Pats feel otherwise...will be interesting to see who read the market correctly.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    Interesting...  funny how off season can be as exciting as the regular season though!

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

     

    In response to JRABBB's comment:

     

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?

     




    hey Leon, how many intelligent things have you posted on here since you've been here? by my count, you're still at zero.

     

    TFB12 contributes more to this board than you will ever contribute to anything in your useless life.

     




    I love clever come backs! LOL, Thanks for my evening chuckle!

     

     

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    In response to JRABBB's comment:

     

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?

     


    hey Leon, how many intelligent things have you posted on here since you've been here? by my count, you're still at zero.

     

    TFB12 contributes more to this board than you will ever contribute to anything in your useless life.



    My nomination for post of the week.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I didn't think Welker was an option, didn't think Talib was an option but I thought for sure Seabass would be tagged. 


    Maybe things are going good on the contract talks.

     

    really bad for us with wes.. odds are now higher that a cash rich team like san fran could swoop in with $55m offer for 5 years with 24m GUARANTEED!


     



    Let san fran be stupid and try to sign welker for that much money. Makes them less threatening down the road when they have tons of money tied up in an aging player who will likely underproduce in the later years of that contract.

     

    I guess the Pats not using the tag on any one means they are confident they can retain the players that they want back. Which is a good thing right? 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

     

    In response to JRABBB's comment:

     

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?

     




    hey Leon, how many intelligent things have you posted on here since you've been here? by my count, you're still at zero.

     

    TFB12 contributes more to this board than you will ever contribute to anything in your useless life.

     




    I love clever come backs! LOL, Thanks for my evening chuckle!

     

     



    Nice work NMPL. Lol   This also gets my vote for post of the week.. :)

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I didn't think Welker was an option, didn't think Talib was an option but I thought for sure Seabass would be tagged. 


    Maybe things are going good on the contract talks.

     

    really bad for us with wes.. odds are now higher that a cash rich team like san fran could swoop in with $55m offer for 5 years with 24m GUARANTEED!


     

     



    Let san fran be stupid and try to sign welker for that much money. Makes them less threatening down the road when they have tons of money tied up in an aging player who will likely underproduce in the later years of that contract.

     

     

    I guess the Pats not using the tag on any one means they are confident they can retain the players that they want back. Which is a good thing right? 



    I would agree on both counts - 1) they are confident they can retain who they want; and 2) it is a good thing.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxfan94. Show redsoxfan94's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    im surprised they didnt use the tag on seabass....hopefully this means the contract talks are going well with the three players, like TFB said.

    very interesting offseason already and its just started!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to JRABBB's comment:

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?




    As many as I want since this is a Patriots forum and I am a member here. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to redsoxfan94's comment:

    In response to JRABBB's comment:

     

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?

     




    hey Leon, how many intelligent things have you posted on here since you've been here? by my count, you're still at zero.

     

    TFB12 contributes more to this board than you will ever contribute to anything in your useless life.




    Thanks redsoxfan94.  Looks like Leon got owned again!!

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to xXR3S1NXx's comment:

    In response to BostonProSportsLover's comment:

     

    In response to TFB12's comment:

     

    I didn't think Welker was an option, didn't think Talib was an option but I thought for sure Seabass would be tagged. 


    Maybe things are going good on the contract talks.

     

    really bad for us with wes.. odds are now higher that a cash rich team like san fran could swoop in with $55m offer for 5 years with 24m GUARANTEED!


     

     



    Let san fran be stupid and try to sign welker for that much money. Makes them less threatening down the road when they have tons of money tied up in an aging player who will likely underproduce in the later years of that contract.

     

     

    I guess the Pats not using the tag on any one means they are confident they can retain the players that they want back. Which is a good thing right? 



    Saved me typing all that.  If they want to pay him 12 M per then here's your plane tickets Wes. Then 2years from now who's much ahead are they?  Win now baby, works sometimes, sometimes not so much. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to JRABBB's comment:

    Hey TFB -How many threads have you started since 1-1-13?




    Look for my new Welker thread to pop up on Tuesday, 3/5!  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    Not really shocked no one got the tage. I'd love to have all back but at the right price and none of those prices are higher then the tag.

    For Vollmer, the tag is for LT money and I know a coupe of RT's got paid but I don't think what he's going to command will be as much. If they are looking for something long term it's better to let him test the market and come back with a deal that is lower then the tag hit and sign him then.

    For Wes, love the guy but if someone wants to give him $55mil and 5 years well good luck to him. He's a great player for the Pats but not for that much.

    For Talib, the market is flooded with CB's in Talib's tier: Houston, DRC, Robinson, Smith, Lewis, Grimes, Talib. I don't think his market is going to be nearly as deep as people think

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    Not really shocked no one got the tage. I'd love to have all back but at the right price and none of those prices are higher then the tag.

    For Vollmer, the tag is for LT money and I know a coupe of RT's got paid but I don't think what he's going to command will be as much. If they are looking for something long term it's better to let him test the market and come back with a deal that is lower then the tag hit and sign him then.

    For Wes, love the guy but if someone wants to give him $55mil and 5 years well good luck to him. He's a great player for the Pats but not for that much.

    For Talib, the market is flooded with CB's in Talib's tier: Houston, DRC, Robinson, Smith, Lewis, Grimes, Talib. I don't think his market is going to be nearly as deep as people think




    I think Talib is a bigger and more physical CB that is a better tackler than most CB's. I do think he fits in the top 5 tier for CB's, but his off field issues will take some teams out of contention.

    I actually do not think the Pats would have had interest in Talib if he did not play with them this past season. I think the Pats know what they have in Talib, and feel they can work with him.

    I think the Pats trepidation is not with the $$ but with the length and guarantee's. Thats why I thought 1 year at $8-$9 would have been something of interest to the Pats, but Talib's agent obviously feels better offers will be out there in spite of the glut.

    If I am the Pats, even 2/$16-$18 with $10 guaranteed works, but again it appears Talib feels better is available

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Not really shocked no one got the tage. I'd love to have all back but at the right price and none of those prices are higher then the tag.

    For Vollmer, the tag is for LT money and I know a coupe of RT's got paid but I don't think what he's going to command will be as much. If they are looking for something long term it's better to let him test the market and come back with a deal that is lower then the tag hit and sign him then.

    For Wes, love the guy but if someone wants to give him $55mil and 5 years well good luck to him. He's a great player for the Pats but not for that much.

    For Talib, the market is flooded with CB's in Talib's tier: Houston, DRC, Robinson, Smith, Lewis, Grimes, Talib. I don't think his market is going to be nearly as deep as people think

     




     

    I think Talib is a bigger and more physical CB that is a better tackler than most CB's. I do think he fits in the top 5 tier for CB's, but his off field issues will take some teams out of contention.

    I actually do not think the Pats would have had interest in Talib if he did not play with them this past season. I think the Pats know what they have in Talib, and feel they can work with him.

    I think the Pats trepidation is not with the $$ but with the length and guarantee's. Thats why I thought 1 year at $8-$9 would have been something of interest to the Pats, but Talib's agent obviously feels better offers will be out there in spite of the glut.

    If I am the Pats, even 2/$16-$18 with $10 guaranteed works, but again it appears Talib feels better is available



    I think you are way over estimating what Talib is going to get on the market. Lets face it, yes Talib is one of the better CBs when he's on his game but a number of factors need to be taken into account.

    • He's inconsistent in his career and even on the Pats his play was inconsistent (see Hou game)
    • He has trouble staying on the field
    • He already has 1 PED strike which means next one is half a year
    • He didn't grade out as even a top 20 CB when he was on the Pats
    • He has off-field concerns
    • He has work ethic/locker room concern

    When you start to add all that up and even with his high talent it doesn't look as good as a solid stable corner. DRC has the ability to perform the same on the field without the PED and off-field issues. Houston and Lewis, though not as talented, are more stable/consistent and less of an off-field concern. Grimes is a health concern same as Talib without all the other stuff. There are plenty of options out there and Talib is in the middle of the them because of all his issues. Now we saw him play and really any starting caliber CB would have improved this secondary last year so I think we are over valuing him. I'm thinking he'll get closer to a $5-6mil prove it contract maybe for 1-2 years.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TFB12. Show TFB12's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Not really shocked no one got the tage. I'd love to have all back but at the right price and none of those prices are higher then the tag.

    For Vollmer, the tag is for LT money and I know a coupe of RT's got paid but I don't think what he's going to command will be as much. If they are looking for something long term it's better to let him test the market and come back with a deal that is lower then the tag hit and sign him then.

    For Wes, love the guy but if someone wants to give him $55mil and 5 years well good luck to him. He's a great player for the Pats but not for that much.

    For Talib, the market is flooded with CB's in Talib's tier: Houston, DRC, Robinson, Smith, Lewis, Grimes, Talib. I don't think his market is going to be nearly as deep as people think

     




     

    I think Talib is a bigger and more physical CB that is a better tackler than most CB's. I do think he fits in the top 5 tier for CB's, but his off field issues will take some teams out of contention.

    I actually do not think the Pats would have had interest in Talib if he did not play with them this past season. I think the Pats know what they have in Talib, and feel they can work with him.

    I think the Pats trepidation is not with the $$ but with the length and guarantee's. Thats why I thought 1 year at $8-$9 would have been something of interest to the Pats, but Talib's agent obviously feels better offers will be out there in spite of the glut.

    If I am the Pats, even 2/$16-$18 with $10 guaranteed works, but again it appears Talib feels better is available

     



    I think you are way over estimating what Talib is going to get on the market. Lets face it, yes Talib is one of the better CBs when he's on his game but a number of factors need to be taken into account.

     

    • He's inconsistent in his career and even on the Pats his play was inconsistent (see Hou game)
    • He has trouble staying on the field
    • He already has 1 PED strike which means next one is half a year
    • He didn't grade out as even a top 20 CB when he was on the Pats
    • He has off-field concerns
    • He has work ethic/locker room concern

    When you start to add all that up and even with his high talent it doesn't look as good as a solid stable corner. DRC has the ability to perform the same on the field without the PED and off-field issues. Houston and Lewis, though not as talented, are more stable/consistent and less of an off-field concern. Grimes is a health concern same as Talib without all the other stuff. There are plenty of options out there and Talib is in the middle of the them because of all his issues. Now we saw him play and really any starting caliber CB would have improved this secondary last year so I think we are over valuing him. I'm thinking he'll get closer to a $5-6mil prove it contract maybe for 1-2 years.




    I agree, good post!

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    PatsEng - great post.

    Pats made basically four moves in the defensive backfield when Talib came in:

    1. Devon to safety - an upgrade

    2. Dennard to starting outside CB - an upgrade

    3. Arrington to slot CB - an upgrade

    4. Talib - an upgrade? Not sure he actually performed personally any better than Devon did, but with the other changes including better safety support for him from Devon we all look at Talib as the 'reason.'

    With the above changes there was also a big change in the front 7 with more pressure packages. The defense as a whole became more aggressive.

    When you actually look at the regular season stats for Talib - 1 interception and 2 passes defensed in 6 games it isn't exactly stunning. And when PFF ran their CB review, the QB rating when throwing at Talib was I believe over 100. They had him rated solidly in the middle of the pack overall.

    I think he is talented and inconsistent and would not mind seeing him back at the right price, but there are a number of other options in FA that are equally effective whether they have his athletic ability or not. The list might include: Grimes, Lewis, Smith, DRC, Houston, Cox, and maybe four or five others. And none of them have as much baggage as Talib. A few of those CBs will sign for 8+M per year, but some will be in the 6-8M range and a few may be in the 3-6M range. And because they have less baggage it is much easier to structure a 3-5 yr deal that lowers the early cap hits to more manageable numbers. With Talib - the last thing you want to give him is a large signing bonus which means his cap hit is going to be very close to his average salary on any contract he signs.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Franchise tag not used by the Patriots

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

     

    Not really shocked no one got the tage. I'd love to have all back but at the right price and none of those prices are higher then the tag.

    For Vollmer, the tag is for LT money and I know a coupe of RT's got paid but I don't think what he's going to command will be as much. If they are looking for something long term it's better to let him test the market and come back with a deal that is lower then the tag hit and sign him then.

    For Wes, love the guy but if someone wants to give him $55mil and 5 years well good luck to him. He's a great player for the Pats but not for that much.

    For Talib, the market is flooded with CB's in Talib's tier: Houston, DRC, Robinson, Smith, Lewis, Grimes, Talib. I don't think his market is going to be nearly as deep as people think

     




     

    I think Talib is a bigger and more physical CB that is a better tackler than most CB's. I do think he fits in the top 5 tier for CB's, but his off field issues will take some teams out of contention.

    I actually do not think the Pats would have had interest in Talib if he did not play with them this past season. I think the Pats know what they have in Talib, and feel they can work with him.

    I think the Pats trepidation is not with the $$ but with the length and guarantee's. Thats why I thought 1 year at $8-$9 would have been something of interest to the Pats, but Talib's agent obviously feels better offers will be out there in spite of the glut.

    If I am the Pats, even 2/$16-$18 with $10 guaranteed works, but again it appears Talib feels better is available

     



    I think you are way over estimating what Talib is going to get on the market. Lets face it, yes Talib is one of the better CBs when he's on his game but a number of factors need to be taken into account.

     

    • He's inconsistent in his career and even on the Pats his play was inconsistent (see Hou game)
    • He has trouble staying on the field
    • He already has 1 PED strike which means next one is half a year
    • He didn't grade out as even a top 20 CB when he was on the Pats
    • He has off-field concerns
    • He has work ethic/locker room concern

    When you start to add all that up and even with his high talent it doesn't look as good as a solid stable corner. DRC has the ability to perform the same on the field without the PED and off-field issues. Houston and Lewis, though not as talented, are more stable/consistent and less of an off-field concern. Grimes is a health concern same as Talib without all the other stuff. There are plenty of options out there and Talib is in the middle of the them because of all his issues. Now we saw him play and really any starting caliber CB would have improved this secondary last year so I think we are over valuing him. I'm thinking he'll get closer to a $5-6mil prove it contract maybe for 1-2 years.



    I think you are looking at it like the Pats are looking at it. I hope you (and the Pats) are correct. I have to assume the Pats made him an offer already. I also have to assume some one has whispered in Talib's agents ear, allowing him to pass on the Pats offer. Knowing how BB negotiates, most likely he gave Talib his best offer already, and Talib passed....so far. Thats not to say someone comes in higher. Maybe Pats offer will be best Talib gets.  

    Talib's injury history shows nothing major, mostly hamstring and tendon issues. He has age and size on his side. He has also shown that not only can he play the Pats system, but he can be game planned for a particular opposing team.

    I thought DRC played very poorly last year. I do like Grimes in that top tier, but I think his cost is just as high, or higher than Talib.

    I would hate to see the Pats try and get a CB for middling or bottom $$$'s. I thought they did that last year with Gregory. Gregory was a 3rd safety in a rotation, forced to start with the Pats due to others poor play. Pats need a big, physical CB that can be game planned to jam and play big time WR's one on one much of a game. They need a CB that can tackle.

    Talib is not Revis, but we know what he is, what he can and cant do. I hope the Pats can retain him.

     
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