Fresh perspective on Brady

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pschuller. Show pschuller's posts

    Fresh perspective on Brady

    I expect that a number of you may have already embedded your responses to this observation in previous posts over the last week, but after sitting back for a while and thinking about Brady and his legacy, here is one possible perspective, on which I solicit others' opinions.
    1. Brady is one of the all time greats, given the types of records he has broken (dont' forget the 16 straight completions in the SB!) and his overall won-lost record, regular season and playoff.
    2. Although everything about his demeanor, competitiveness, and hard working approach to the game suggests that he would be a Big Game QB, he may not in fact be as clutch a QB as someone like Montana. Especially in recent playoff games, when the pressure on him has been the greatest, he has not been at his best.
    3. In general, what he has had to work with over the last 10 years, both on defense and within the receiving corps, has been considerably less than the great Montana, Bradshaw, and other multiple SB champ teams. So arguably, while his stats have not been as great in SB's as theirs, he has been every bit as good, given all the other factors involved. (i.e. if you start with more pressure on you, it is a more difficult game to play, and I cite in support of this, his ill considered throw right off the bat, resulting in a safety)
    4. In toto, Brady has been more engaging to watch than any other QB in football history, and his 5 SB's in 10 years of being an NFL QB (take out the injury year) is really an amazing achievement. In short, I cannot think of another QB, currently active or not, that I would rather have had leading the Pats for the last 10 years!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    Brady is the best QB that ever played the game. He is also the best clutch QB that ever played the game. That about sums it up.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]I expect that a number of you may have already embedded your responses to this observation in previous posts ....  3. In general, what he has had to work with over the last 10 years, both on defense and within the receiving corps, has been considerably less than the great Montana, Bradshaw, and other multiple SB champ teams. ... In short, I cannot think of another QB, currently active or not, that I would rather have had leading the Pats for the last 10 years!!
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]
    #1 - Brady will probably elicit more positive/negative posts than any other QB in history.  He is either loved or hated or his efforts diminished by such statements as. " he is a system QB".
    #2 - Give Brady the teams Bradshaw, Montana, Young had behind them and Brady may have 5 - 6 rings.  He has always had less to work with as a QB.  In the years he finally has an offense which works well around him, the defense goes into the tank.  He just can't win it all by himself. Look at how Elway is sometimes placed above Brady, but, wasn't he 2 - 3 in SBs, losing his first three BEFORE winning, and no one blasts Elway like they do for Brady's 3 - 2 record!!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bubthegrub12. Show Bubthegrub12's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    I wouldn't blame these last few playoff losses on Tom, though the game against the Ravens he did have a "stinker". But the game is a team game, and it takes 11 guys to win (or lose). Even though the SB winning teams had very good defenses, none could really compare to the Steel Curtain of the 70s. Bradshaw was less a "great" QB than Brady, though he did have good games in his four SBs. Montana also had some very stout defenses behind him, along with guys like Taylor, Clark, Craig, and of course Rice as playmakers. The only time Brady has had "elite" weapons was in 07 with Welker and Moss, and last week with Welker and Gronk. Had Gronk been healthy I think the Giants would have been in trouble. Four years ago they simply doubled Moss and the O-line couldn't hold off the rush long enough to allow big plays downfield. But this last time I think the defense was really their demise, you simply cannot allow a team to hold the ball for 38 minutes and win many games! Though Brady has been more prolific in later years, he hasn't had the playmakers (especially on defense) around him as he did early on. Unfortunately, in the scheme of things it's the QB who gets most of the credit or blame, deserved or no.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    Its funny how people say Brady made a bad pass to Wes even tho he had both hands on it. Wes is what 5'8"

    Guys like Montana had Rice, Taylor.


    Bradshaw!?!?  Was he really accurate...look at all the highlights from those days of Lynn Swann. Every catch was a highlight reel. Diving, or skying out of bounds with both feet still in bounds.  How about giving Tom someone Elite besides a washed up One trick pony in Moss.

    You put Brady on those 49ers team, Same Result.

    You put Montana on this team last year...Good Luck with that defense..lol
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    I think Brady has done more with less than any other QB in history.  He's won clutch games for us in the past with some truly rabbit out the hat performances, and has beyond proven he deserves to be in any conversation regarding best QB of all time. 

    We just need to add another blue chip player to his arsenal and have some better offensive play calling for it all to come together one more time. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]Brady is the best QB that ever played the game. He is also the best clutch QB that ever played the game. That about sums it up.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    He was clutch if you define clutch as getting a stupid safety, throwing a stupid INT, missing a wide open Welker and failing to get a first down that would have allowed the clock to be run down and force the Giants to use their last time out.

    You may now shift the blame to the defense like you always do.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from glenr. Show glenr's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]Its funny how people say Brady made a bad pass to Wes even tho he had both hands on it. Wes is what 5'8" Guys like Montana had Rice, Taylor. Bradshaw!?!?  Was he really accurate...look at all the highlights from those days of Lynn Swann. Every catch was a highlight reel. Diving, or skying out of bounds with both feet still in bounds.  How about giving Tom someone Elite besides a washed up One trick pony in Moss. You put Brady on those 49ers team, Same Result. You put Montana on this team last year...Good Luck with that defense..lol
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    Whats even funnier is people who think that if you can twist around at the last  instant and touch a badly thrown ball you should have caught it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady : He was clutch if you define clutch as getting a stupid safety, throwing a stupid INT, missing a wide open Welker and failing to get a first down that would have allowed the clock to be run down and force the Giants to use their last time out. You may now shift the blame to the defense like you always do.
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]

    How could anyone possibly blame the D for the loss when they allowed the winning score with 57 seconds left? That's outrageous right Einstein?


    Let's start a new project. We're going to work on you getting a clue.



    Lesson #1.

    You're command of the language must be a challenge. You confuse "clutch" with "perfect".

    You and 8 other imbeciles on Earth think Wes was without fault on his DROP. Wes isn't counted among you imbeciles by the way.

    Brady's passer rating for the game was about the same as Eli's was for the season; a season in which Eli is being called "elite" for.

    Guess what? If the O-line protects and doesn't let a rogue rusher penetrate like crap through a goose there is no safety.

    FYI Brady's playoff numbers were a 100 passer rating and 8 TDs, 4 INTs. Tell me how bad that is.


    Here's your problem in a nutshell. You're an idiot.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady : Whats even funnier is people who think that if you can twist around at the last  instant and touch a badly thrown ball you should have caught it.
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]


    Wowie. Wes must be spectacular then. Because he says he has made a play like that 1000 times. Now, THAT'S funny.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    Babe, people dont realize you may have to make more than the routine play in the SB.  You know the biggest stage of all Sports.

    Go back and check the highlights.  To be Great, you have to make Great plays


    Looks at Clarks ednzone catch that took every ounce of his body to leap up and make that catch. Lynn Swann, etc

    Wes was at the podium, crying saying he let his team down. HE said he maked the play a thousand times. Why are you defending someone who doesnt need defending.


    I played football and not a year after high school. I still play flag football. Believe me, that catch was not as bad as some make it out to be.


    he clapped the ball instead of catching it. His Fault. In all seriousness, minus pressure I make that catch easily, now you have to ask Wes if the pressure got to him.  Maybe he will cut out all that Ocho twitter crap...Soon as he signed up, his numbers went down like Ocho....And he grew a stache!!!   Cmon man!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady : He was clutch if you define clutch as getting a stupid safety, throwing a stupid INT, missing a wide open Welker and failing to get a first down that would have allowed the clock to be run down and force the Giants to use their last time out. You may now shift the blame to the defense like you always do.
    Posted by glenr[/QUOTE]
    So, GlenR...  Brady is all at fault as he is the ONLY QB in NFL history to do that type of stuff in a playoff or even the SB game?  Oh, by the way, in which SB game has Brady thrown a pick 6? 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Will-Redd. Show Will-Redd's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    Brady had a high ankle sprain the first SB loss to the Giants, and didn't make a big deal about it.  During this last, as was reported on another thread here, Brady was two different QB's before and after he hurt his shoulder.

    Brady just man's up.  No complaining.  He takes ownership of his play.

    Brady is definitely the best of all time.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]Babe, people dont realize you may have to make more than the routine play in the SB.  You know the biggest stage of all Sports. Go back and check the highlights.  To be Great, you have to make Great plays Looks at Clarks ednzone catch that took every ounce of his body to leap up and make that catch. Lynn Swann, etc Wes was at the podium, crying saying he let his team down. HE said he maked the play a thousand times. Why are you defending someone who doesnt need defending. I played football and not a year after high school. I still play flag football. Believe me, that catch was not as bad as some make it out to be. he clapped the ball instead of catching it. His Fault. In all seriousness, minus pressure I make that catch easily, now you have to ask Wes if the pressure got to him.  Maybe he will cut out all that Ocho twitter crap...Soon as he signed up, his numbers went down like Ocho....And he grew a stache!!!   Cmon man!
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    It would have been a good catch, but not spectacular. I agree.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]Brady is one of the all time greats, given the types of records he has broken (dont' forget the 16 straight completions in the SB!) and his overall won-lost record, regular season and playoff. 2. Although everything about his demeanor, competitiveness, and hard working approach to the game suggests that he would be a Big Game QB, he may not in fact be as clutch a QB as someone like Montana. Especially in recent playoff games, when the pressure on him has been the greatest, he has not been at his best.
    Posted by pschuller[/QUOTE]

    I would counter that Montana had the greatest offensive minded coach in the modern era, almost every offensive system today is a derivative of Walsh's system.  He is to offense what Belichick is to defense. 

    In every respect Brady is Montana 2.0, cool demeanor, uncanny ability to sense the rush while looking downfield, incredible accuracy and ability to lead receivers.  

    Unfortunately Belichick needs a counter on offense the same way Walsh had George Seifert on defense.  Maybe McDaniel's is the guy, I hope so...


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dessalines. Show Dessalines's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    Tom Brady will go into the hall of fame on roller skates, he is simply one of the best to ever play the game.  PATS fans here posting otherwise are concerned only with their reputations as people awho know something, when they really don't.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Fresh perspective on Brady : #1 - Brady will probably elicit more positive/negative posts than any other QB in history.  He is either loved or hated or his efforts diminished by such statements as. " he is a system QB". #2 - Give Brady the teams Bradshaw, Montana, Young had behind them and Brady may have 5 - 6 rings.  He has always had less to work with as a QB.  In the years he finally has an offense which works well around him, the defense goes into the tank.  He just can't win it all by himself. Look at how Elway is sometimes placed above Brady, but, wasn't he 2 - 3 in SBs, losing his first three BEFORE winning, and no one blasts Elway like they do for Brady's 3 - 2 record!!
    Posted by agcsbill[/QUOTE]

    Oh really.

    So in 1981 when Montana was handing off to Bill Ring and throwing to Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark, and Renaldo Nehimiah, Brady had less??  Check their stats.  I believe there is ONE 1,000 yd receiving year between them

    Then in 1984, Montana had Craig. 2 1,000 yd rushing seasons his entire career. No, Jerry Rice was not on that team.  No, John Taylor was not on that team.  In fact, he was throwing to the a lot of the same guys above.

    Get your facts straignt.

    Rice came along in 1985.  Give me a FN break.  Look at what Wes Welker has done.  Compare him to John Taylor.  Go ahead, compare the two.  Montana had Rice for the better part of 4 years, and Brady had Moss for the better part of 2 years.  One guy won, the other didn'tAccept it. 

    You guys play this game to make yourselves feel better.  The fact is, Montana was perfect in the SB.  4-0, 11 tds, 0 ints, and a ridiculous QB rating.  He was the ultimate big game QB, period.

    I have a ton of respect for Brady.  He is flat out amazing, and his attitude is one of a winner.  But you guys should give up on the "Brady is better than Joe" argument at this point.

    Or if you continue the debate, at least get your facts straignt.  And at least mention your HOF coach and the HOF players on your D that significantly contributed to Brady's early success in the first place.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joe16. Show Joe16's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady : Let's start a new project. We're going to work on you getting a clue. Lesson #1. You're command of the language must be a challenge. You confuse "clutch" with "perfect". You and 8 other imbeciles on Earth think Wes was without fault on his DROP. Wes isn't counted among you imbeciles by the way. Brady's passer rating for the game was about the same as Eli's was for the season; a season in which Eli is being called "elite" for. Guess what? If the O-line protects and doesn't let a rogue rusher penetrate like crap through a goose there is no safety. FYI Brady's playoff numbers were a 100 passer rating and 8 TDs, 4 INTs. Tell me how bad that is. Here's your problem in a nutshell. You're an idiot.
    Posted by BabeParilli[/QUOTE]

    No, you are the idiot.  6 of those tds came in one game against an 8-8 team.  That means Brady threw 2 tds 4 ints in the AFC Champ game/SB combined.

    He's a great QB.  He'll never be "better" than Joe.  Sorry.  At best argue they are equal.....but don't disrespect the best QB to ever touch a football in the process.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from AZPAT. Show AZPAT's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]Babe, people dont realize you may have to make more than the routine play in the SB.  You know the biggest stage of all Sports. Go back and check the highlights.  To be Great, you have to make Great plays Looks at Clarks ednzone catch that took every ounce of his body to leap up and make that catch. Lynn Swann, etc Wes was at the podium, crying saying he let his team down. HE said he maked the play a thousand times. Why are you defending someone who doesnt need defending. I played football and not a year after high school. I still play flag football. Believe me, that catch was not as bad as some make it out to be. he clapped the ball instead of catching it. His Fault. In all seriousness, minus pressure I make that catch easily, now you have to ask Wes if the pressure got to him.  Maybe he will cut out all that Ocho twitter crap...Soon as he signed up, his numbers went down like Ocho....And he grew a stache!!!   Cmon man!
    Posted by JayShizzle45[/QUOTE]

    What a load of hooie!!!!

    Welker was WIDE OPEN!!!!. Yet, here comes #12 hrowing a pass in a spot where he has to imitate a Flying Walinda to make a circus catch. But, let's blame Welker, just because he said in a press conference that he should have caught the ball. While I may agree with that statement, a better throw to him (did I mention the fact he was WIDE OPEN?) could have provided 6 points and an expanded lead to 24-9?

    But, for now, let's leave that throw alone. Let's look at the throw he threw BEHIND Branch right after the Welker toss. He's seeing Branch running across the field, yet threw it behind him. Bone Head Collinsworth claims that Branch could have settled down to catch the ball. Let's not confuse him (Bone Head) with any HOF credentials, but when a WR runs full bore across the field, if he stops to "settle down" to make a catch he's probably not going to catch it. Something called momentum and rhythm. Ah, but we'll move along to the Best of #12.... the stupid decision to throw a long pass to Gronk.

    The safety? That throw should have been at the feet of the nearest receiver, NOT 25 yrds downfield where he was hoping one would be. I haven't heard or read of any WR being called out for NOT running his route correctly on that "play". Two poor passing decisions that cost points.  

    Do you kind of think that the Giants had an inkling that maybe, JUST maybe, Gronk wasn't up to 100%? Think that this knowledge allowed them to cover him one on one with a LB, even as he "streaked" down the field (OK, poor choice of adverb)? Yet, here was Gronk with a two step lead on the LB, who, right now, will never be mentioned as HOF material. If this was a surprise/trick play, it worked well. At least until Mr #12 underthrows the ball, forcing Gronk to come back for the ball and outwrestle the LB for it; the same LB who was fully in front of and between Gronk and the ball. Think the injury had anything to do with his NOT coming down with the ball?  

    These were critical plays well before the receivers got the dropsies on the last "drive". But, we'll blame Welker for being too short and not Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Lynn Swann, or Stallworth-ish enough; Branch decided to get extremelly selfish and not stop running full tilt to "settle down" for his offering, and that Gronk should have knocked the ball away or perhaps drawn an offensive PI call on that play (this hilarious stuff has actually been suggested on this board). Yessir, #12 had nothing to do with any of that. Or his Tebow-like 25 passing rating for the 4th qtr. Yep, it was the receivers that blew it. 

    Then we'll throw in the defense rolling over when Eli took the field with just under 4 minutes left. Or, the fact that they never got a 3 and out, or never made a statement AFTER the Pats went up 17-9. They reverted and allowed a FG on teh Gi9ants next possession.

    Now, before some of you lesser intellectually gifted posters respond, I am not placing the entire blame on #12. He deserves a chunk of it. The receivers get their share for dropping easily catchable balls (sorry, Welker's is NOT one of these), and the defense for playing the Giants last drive like the #31 defense in the NFL. (Sorry, but Manningham does not get behind a CB going down the sidelines. Chung had to come across the field to get him out of bounds, NOT the CB covering.)

    Blame? Plenty to go around. Maybe it's something more.... anyone else notice how #12's performance in the post season hasn't been so good since he's hooked up with Super Models and such? Just thinking........ maybe he bought into Mrs #12's Prayer Chain stuff.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady : No, you are the idiot.  6 of those tds came in one game against an 8-8 team.  That means Brady threw 2 tds 4 ints in the AFC Champ game/SB combined. He's a great QB.  He'll never be "better" than Joe.  Sorry.  At best argue they are equal.....but don't disrespect the best QB to ever touch a football in the process.
    Posted by Joe16[/QUOTE]

    How idiotic of you to point out that he slammed the Broncos and act as if it somehow doesn't count. We should subtract all Joe's big playoff games to be fair too I guess.

    The Ravens? Ahh, during your idiot trance did you notice they led the NFL with a 68 defensive passer rating?

    Brady had a game against the Giants that is right in line with Joe's career playoff numbers.

    So you got no juice with this idiotic boast.

    Brady bests Joe in career stats, W/L, playoff wins and all this in the cap era. It's not even that close, dope.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Fresh perspective on Brady : Oh really. So in 1981 when Montana was handing off to Bill Ring and throwing to Freddie Solomon, Dwight Clark, and Renaldo Nehimiah, Brady had less??  Check their stats.  I believe there is ONE 1,000 yd receiving year between them .  Then in 1984, Montana had Craig. 2 1,000 yd rushing seasons his entire career . No, Jerry Rice was not on that team.  No, John Taylor was not on that team.  In fact, he was throwing to the a lot of the same guys above. Get your facts straignt . Rice came along in 1985.  Give me a FN break.  Look at what Wes Welker has done.  Compare him to John Taylor.  Go ahead, compare the two.  Montana had Rice for the better part of 4 years, and Brady had Moss for the better part of 2 years.  One guy won, the other didn't .  Accept it.   You guys play this game to make yourselves feel better.  The fact is, Montana was perfect in the SB.  4-0, 11 tds, 0 ints, and a ridiculous QB rating.  He was the ultimate big game QB, period. I have a ton of respect for Brady.  He is flat out amazing, and his attitude is one of a winner.  But you guys should give up on the "Brady is better than Joe" argument at this point. Or if you continue the debate, at least get your facts straignt.  And at least mention your HOF coach and the HOF players on your D that significantly contributed to Brady's early success in the first place.
    Posted by Joe16[/QUOTE]

    Enlighten me genius. Exactly who were the "HOF players on your D" that you are referring to?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    Wes dropped a pass that he normally makes.  The doesn't change the fact that he is still a top flight WR.

    The Pats defense on the other hand consistently plays poorly.  The Pats D got lucky in Baltimore and almost cost the Pats another trip to the Superbowl.  

    If you want to find the weaknesses on the Pats, than look at what is consistently bad, and the would be defense.

    And yard do count, not just points.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SchwillyPete. Show SchwillyPete's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    Eli is a better clutch QB than Brady. Fact. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from UD6. Show UD6's posts

    Re: Fresh perspective on Brady

    The thing that strikes me most about these posts is how deeply those compared to Brady are scrutinized while the same magnifying glass appears conspicuously absent when the time comes to look at Brady. 
     
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