From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    Wes Welker
    Ranked #9 in 2008
    Ranked #2 in 2009
    currently ranked #60 in 2010

    Yep, looks like Moss' departure and double teams directly affects his performance. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]Wes Welker Ranked #9 in 2008 Ranked #2 in 2009 currently ranked #60 in 2010 Yep, looks like Moss' departure and double teams directly affects his performance. 
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    If the Pats win, it won't matter, and Welker will be the first to admit that.

    I actually much prefer him not catching 120 passes and taking all the accompanying hits.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from knightsailor. Show knightsailor's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    His numbers are generally better when we are behind.  We haven't been behind much this year.  Tate is going to open things up once BB has faith in him going downfield which I think will be soon.  Also, Hern and Gronk up the seem will open things up underneath.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    He is also coming back from a serious injury and admits he is not completely recovered. 
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]Wes Welker Ranked #9 in 2008 Ranked #2 in 2009 currently ranked #60 in 2010 Yep, looks like Moss' departure and double teams directly affects his performance. 
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    That, and major knee surgery, will do it.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1.... : If the Pats win, it won't matter, and Welker will be the first to admit that. I actually much prefer him not catching 120 passes and taking all the accompanying hits.
    Posted by NY-PATS-FAN4[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. With the exception of a few players, I'm sure that most would forego individual stats for a year for a SB ring.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-Money12. Show J-Money12's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    Welker is also still recovering from his knee injury.  He still has his brace on his knee which, even he has said, slows down his cut moves.  And Welker also said he is not 100% yet. Give it some time.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from irishfanatic. Show irishfanatic's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]Welker is also still recovering from his knee injury.  He still has his brace on his knee which, even he has said, slows down his cut moves.  And Welker also said he is not 100% yet. Give it some time.
    Posted by J-Money12[/QUOTE]

    Ditto to this. I cannot believe any Pats fan calling out WW's  production considering what the guy has endured since major injury (regardless of altering game plan cos of #81's swift departure). To me, having him come back as early as he did, I could not, and I repeat,could not. have more admiration for the man. Wearing the brace and all and the position he puts himself taking hits, he is heart and bravery personified IMO.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1.... : Ditto to this. I cannot believe any Pats fan calling out WW's  production considering what the guy has endured since major injury (regardless of altering game plan cos of #81's swift departure). To me, having him come back as early as he did, I could not, and  I repeat,could not. have more admiration for the man. Wearing the brace and all and the position he puts himself taking hits, he is heart and bravery personified IMO.
    Posted by irishfanatic[/QUOTE]

    Noone on this thread has called Wes Welker out.   Not sure why you would have interpreted what was written as such.   It's not like someone wrote "Wes Welker *ucks....look at his numbers".
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]Wes Welker Ranked #9 in 2008 Ranked #2 in 2009 currently ranked #60 in 2010 Yep, looks like Moss' departure and double teams directly affects his performance. 
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    Moss has some effect, but not as much as people claim.  As mentioned already here, it's a miracle he is on the field even being a factor.

    He got hurt in late January. Most timetables for that kind of an injury, especially one that features a player who relies on sharp cuts, would be later in the year.

    No one is truly recovered until at least a year into it.

    Totally unfair deduction pretending it's only Moss's deep threat or double team decoys that allows Welker to get open.

    Teams double Welker still in the red zone in fear of his presence. Go watch the Miami game again.

    Balt and SD have been featuring some good pass Ds.


     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    What, prey-tell, is he ranked #60 in?
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1.... : Moss has some effect, but not as much as people claim.  As mentioned already here, it's a miracle he is on the field even being a factor. He got hurt in late January. Most timetables for that kind of an injury, especially one that features a player who relies on sharp cuts, would be later in the year. No one is truly recovered until at least a year into it. Totally unfair deduction pretending it's only Moss's deep threat or double team decoys that allows Welker to get open. Teams double Welker still in the red zone in fear of his presence. Go watch the Miami game again. Balt and SD have been featuring some good pass Ds.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you. All the factors mentioned by various people on this thread play a factor....some more than others. I would imagine that the knee injury and double teams may account for the biggest two factors.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    I'm confused, everybody talks about stats are for loser's, but we bring up Wes's stats. This man has come back from hell, still wears a brace, we're 5-1 and people are jumping on Wes's stats.


    Like I said, I'm confused!!!
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    It's more about spreading the ball around at this juncture than having three WR in the  top 10 receptions category. What is Welker 60th in; kick return yardage (cf. Tate). I give praise to anyone that comes back from a horrific injury and returns punts during said comeback. McGahee included.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    Wes was double teamed last season and he is still double teamed.

    More importantly ... Moss was ON the team for the majority of your sample. So I am not sure how you can say not having Moss has brought his numbers down.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    I dont want him catching 100 passes a year and getting hit that much -as was stated above. He likes the system and who he plays with. I'd like him around for a few years just to be a locker room presence. He's a modern day flutie, the little engine that could. Now Hernandez, I'd like to see him make 100 catches.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]Wes was double teamed last season and he is still double teamed. More importantly ... Moss was ON the team for the majority of your sample. So I am not sure how you can say not having Moss has brought his numbers down.
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    Never said that was the only factor affecting his numbers.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]It's more about spreading the ball around at this juncture than having three WR in the  top 10 receptions category. What is Welker 60th in; kick return yardage (cf. Tate). I give praise to anyone that comes back from a horrific injury and returns punts during said comeback. McGahee included.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]


    great point, spreading the ball certainly reduces the number of touches wes gets
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]I dont want him catching 100 passes a year and getting hit that much -as was stated above. He likes the system and who he plays with. I'd like him around for a few years just to be a locker room presence. He's a modern day flutie, the little engine that could. Now Hernandez, I'd like to see him make 100 catches.
    Posted by Philskiw[/QUOTE]

    This is true too. Slot WRs the size of Welker tend to have short careers. Look at Chrebet.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southnpatsfan. Show southnpatsfan's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]It's more about spreading the ball around at this juncture than having three WR in the  top 10 receptions category. What is Welker 60th in; kick return yardage (cf. Tate). I give praise to anyone that comes back from a horrific injury and returns punts during said comeback. McGahee included.
    Posted by JohnHannahrulz[/QUOTE]


    Thank you, my exact sentiments.
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]What, prey-tell, is he ranked #60 in?
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    receiving yards
     
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    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    Yes. But you can't even say it affects his numbers remotely to date. As in nearly zero percent. His numbers were down when Moss was here, and for the two games since he left they are still down. 

     So I question why start a thread where you say "Yep, looks like Moss' departure and double teams directly affects his performance."

    That all but states that Moss was the reason. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]Yes. But you can't even say it affects his numbers remotely to date. As in nearly zero percent. His numbers were down when Moss was here, and for the two games since he left they are still down.   So I question why start a thread where you say " Yep, looks like Moss' departure and double teams directly affects his performance." That all but states that Moss was the reason. 
    Posted by zbellino[/QUOTE]

    I mentioned two things - Moss' departure and double teams.  Other's mentioned injuries, spreading the ball around as examples of other valid factors.

    The only way you can say Moss was NOT a factor is if he were still on the team. Since that's not the case, I think it's safe to say that it is a factor. Secondly,with Moss departure it's more likely Wes Welker is being double covered more frequenty since his departure.

    Are you saying Moss' departure has absolute zero impact?

    I can't produce any numbers before Moss' departure how often Welker was double covered while Moss was here vs. when he wasn't here. But, I'm guessing you can't produce any numbers showing Welker was double covered the same amount or less since Moss' departure.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from irishfanatic. Show irishfanatic's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1.... : Noone on this thread has called Wes Welker out.   Not sure why you would have interpreted what was written as such.   It's not like someone wrote "Wes Welker *ucks....look at his numbers".
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

     It was my interpretation of the post and if I am incorrect so be it. It just annoyed me to see anything negative about WW cos he is so special as a player and really fits in to the "Patriot" philosophy. The day this guy landed with us was a Lottery win and in time to come will be lauded as such.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: From 2 to 60 In Less Than 1....

    Welker hasn't appeared to be double teamed at all. You don't line two players over the slot. He was bracketed last season. He is bracketed this season. It happens on almost every play NE runs from the LOS. I don't know how you can miss that. You don't need a stat. 

    Double teams would = Moss. So don't pretend that you meant he was drawing more double teams coming off an injury because people were more afraid of him. That is one reason in your OP.

    "The only way you can say Moss was NOT a factor is if he were still on the team."

    The fact is, it has been two games .. you aren't safe saying anything. The numbers you posted are mostly with Moss on the team dude.  And his numbers were down WITH Moss here as well. 

    The kid had 127 catches last season. He has 37 thus far on pace for 98. That is a thirty catch difference. I think it is safe to say not being targeted as much, even while Moss was here, is the reason his digits are down. That is mostly because NE is running more 2 TE than they did before. Welker leaves in 2 TE. Last year NE was in the spread more, where Welker is there. 

    Hence, his numbers were down with Moss here, and when Moss left they are still down. Welker isn't as big a part of the offense now. 

     
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