future defensive backfield

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    future defensive backfield

    I recently read a post where a fan pointed out that if McCourty works out at safety, it would lessen the need to draft both a safety and a corner back in this year's draft.  The inference being that the cornerback position would be a much greater need than safety.

    In reflecting on this, and assuming McCourty remains at safety, I see the Patriots as having the following in-house:

    Cornerback:

    Arrington
    Molden
    Moore
    Jones
    Edelman
    Williams
    Dowling
    Slater

    Safety:

    McCourty
    Brown
    Chung
    Ihedigbo
    Barrett
    Lockett
    Ventrone

    So on draft day, if you were GM, if it came down to drafting a safety or a cornerback with a specified pick, which way would you go?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    CB- McCourty, Arrington, Dowling, Moore, the rest can compete for the last slot in camp. Safety- Chung, free agent, draft pick, grocery store clerk, whatever. Chung's the only guy who can play safety right now.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    Well first I'd let Williams and Jones go and make Moore and Molden camp decisions for CB's

    For S Brown, Barrett, Lockett are all gone with Ventrone being a PS emergency player

    If what I said is the case all you need in the CB position is a starting caliber vet to come in and take control of the CB's so I wouldn't use a pick on CB

    The S core though has holes in it. If McCourty moves to FS permanently I still think you either need to draft a young player who can switch from FS/SS high (Lester or Barron) or you go out on the FA market and get a vet like Goldson or Harris and maybe draft a project S late.

    If McCourty stays as a CB I think you need to draft a FS high (Lester or Martin) and still need to get that vet in Goldson or Harris (maybe Griffin if Tenn doesn't overpay for him)
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from gandalf433. Show gandalf433's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Edelman should be groomed this off season as a corner. A full off season working the weights, mini camps, and a full exhibition season and he will be an above average corner. As you have already seen.... we could do worse. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    In Response to future defensive backfield:
    [QUOTE]I recently read a post where a fan pointed out that if McCourty works out at safety, it would lessen the need to draft both a safety and a corner back in this year's draft.  The inference being that the cornerback position would be a much greater need than safety. In reflecting on this, and assuming McCourty remains at safety, I see the Patriots as having the following in-house: Cornerback: Arrington Molden Moore Jones Edelman Williams Dowling Slater Safety: McCourty Brown Chung Ihedigbo Barrett Lockett Ventrone So on draft day, if you were GM, if it came down to drafting a safety or a cornerback with a specified pick, which way would you go?
    Posted by dustcover[/QUOTE]
     Just my opinion, but I thought that Sergio Brown and Ihedigbo were the worst pair of safties in the history of the game. It was like we were playing 2 men short when they were on the field. Ihedigbo has some value on special teams but there have got to be better options in the draft or via free agentry.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clay73. Show Clay73's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    I can't help but think that McCourty has been playing through a major shoulder dislocation and he has been giving us all he has at this point.  It would not surprise me that he has surgery the day after his last game played this year.

    I could be wrong but I don't think so, because this kid is good.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield


    I don't see McCourty playing safety for the rest of his career. I think a lot of what happens this offseason at CB depends in part on how much stock they put in Ras, and how much they like Moore and Molden. Even without McCourty playing CB, assuming Ras can stay healthy, the grouping of Ras, Moore, Arrington, Molden and Edleman isn't too bad. Of those 5, I would probably let one walk, and bring in a mid-priced vet to compliment the group. And, this is assuming for a second that McCourty stayed at Safety.

    IF McCourty stayed at safety, he and Chung are a good pairing. Give him some time to come up to speed on the position and I think he provides a better option than Lester or Barron at the position. Not to say we wouldn't have room for 1 of them, but McCourty healthy with an offseason to study the posiiton, I think could turn into a dangerous safety ala Ed Reed...relax, relax, I'm not saying he is the next Ed Reed, but simply that he has the skills to be that ballhawk safety type. There is also the opportunity to put Edelman at Safety. He possesses good safety traits, and this puts him in a position to read QB's and offenses which we know he would be good at. Tons of options for this team.

    I think it comes down to who is available in the draft when we select (better CB or S), and who can we grab or willing to spend $$$ on in FA.

    So the future as I would want it would look somethign like this...

    Safety /> Chung/Lester/Goldson/Edelman
    CB /> RMathis, McCourty, Ras, Moore, Arrington, Molden

    I think that solves the secondary issues pretty well.  

    Now time to fix the Dline and LB corps. Our Dline could be pretty thin next year with quality guys other than VW, Carter, Anderson (assuming Carter and Anderson are resigned).

     


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    As GM I'm taking both a safety and a corner in the draft. Using two of the first four pick seems prudent considering the play in the secondary this year and off the street players currently filling the holes on the roster. I like Minnefield or Dennard at CB in the first round and Barron or Markelle Carter at S in the second. Pretty clear quality depth is needed in a major way. Two of the above along with a quality FA signing such as R Mathis and the secondary could become a strength. Dowling has been injury prone for years and McCourty regressed in yr two. No better way to get improved play out of those guys than to drastically improve the comp forcing them to stay on the field and play well or find themselves pushed down the depth chart. The only for sure starter I see in next years secondary is Chung assuming of course he can stay healthy....? McCourty has looked like Butler in disguise. Not sold on him anymore.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    I think a good start would be to re-evaluate the process they're using to draft and develop DB's, specifically CB's. 

    Next, relieve Josh Boyer of his duties and find a better, more qualified secondary coach.

    As for the draft, I'd really like to see them target Alabama S Mark Barron with their first pick (or Harrison Smith/Robert Lester etc. on Day 2), then target a CB from the below list with one of their next 3-4 picks:

    Stephon Gilmore- South Carolina
    Chase Minnifield- Virginia
    Brandon Boykin- Georgia
    Leonard Johnson- Iowa State
    Coryell Judie- Texas A&M

    I'd also like to see them pick up atleast one quality veteran, ideally S Michael Griffin from the Titans (assuming he's not franchised) or S Charles Godfrey (Car) maybe a CB like Cortland Finnegan (Titans) or Tracy Porter (NO) or Aaron Ross (NYG) etc.

    So you start the season with something like this:

    Total DB's: 9

    CB (5): McCourty, Ras-I, Aarington, Gilmore & Moore

    S (4):  Chung, Griffin/Godfrey, Barron, Ihedigbo/Brown/Barrett

    The total # of DB's will be fluid throughout the year depending on need.
     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    Get your point but disagree at CB. We have McCourty, Arrington, and injured Dowling this year and it's one of the worst units in the league. How is that an upgrade? Unless McCourty returns to form, Dowling stays out of the trainers room, and Arrington develops better ball skills despite his ints. Too many IF's for my liking. I like Gilmore as a 3rd round pick but an inconsistent college performer is not good enough IMO. The rest are marginal prospects. As much as I would like too see front 7 help and an impact outside WR threat the secondary is too bad and lacking depth to draft a mid round corner and call it good. Bite the bullet and address the secondary in a big way this draft. And yes, get a better coach to develop them.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    I don't see McCourty as a long term fixture at Safety.  I also think that he has been playing hurt; that shoulder injury was really apparent in the 'skins game when he couldn't lift his arm after a couple of plays. 

    A guy isn't a league leader in interceptions by accident; I like Arrington at corner, particularly in zone coverage.

    I like Chung at Safety.  Beyond that the team needs help.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jeffory. Show jeffory's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    I like Chung at saftey and that's it. They could develop Endleman or McCourty but they need draft help and free agent help. Cornerbacks become better when they can trust their backups at safety. Cornerbacks are Arrington, McCourty(If he doesn't play safety), Ras I Dowling (Maybe), Sterling Moore, and Maybe Molden. Endleman makes a great Nickle or dime. Bottom line they need help from the draft and freeagency.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    In Response to future defensive backfield:
    [QUOTE]I recently read a post where a fan pointed out that if McCourty works out at safety, it would lessen the need to draft both a safety and a corner back in this year's draft.  The inference being that the cornerback position would be a much greater need than safety. In reflecting on this, and assuming McCourty remains at safety, I see the Patriots as having the following in-house: Cornerback: Arrington Molden Moore Jones Edelman Williams Dowling Slater Safety: McCourty Brown Chung Ihedigbo Barrett Lockett Ventrone So on draft day, if you were GM, if it came down to drafting a safety or a cornerback with a specified pick, which way would you go?
    Posted by dustcover[/QUOTE]

    Listen, I read that post too. In a year of injuries we have fielded anyone who can run, and our schedule was easy, but for next year most of these guys shouldnt even be on the field if we are to improve and play a harder schedule next year.


    With all due respect, the standards have been lowered around here.

    Are you really penciling in Edleman and Slater for next year.????  That would be a step back, IMO

    These guys arent real defenders, they are stopgaps on a team with no consistency.

    Slater, Edleman, Moore, Molden, Jones. I mean these guys have had their moments but they should none should be retained as starters. Eldeman is a nice story,. He can tackle and make plays but cant cover the slot consistently as I saw on film last night.  He gets away with it vs bad qb's like Fitzy, but after the press the WR usually losed Edleman pretty easily, He is not a Full time DB

    Jones looked ok on the field but his lack of p/t tells me he has his issues too.
    Moore is at best a dime back next year. Molden got burnt up last week and it not a # 1 cb. Maybe a nice fill in at nickel if needed. Slater needs to stick to covering kicks.

    I want to go into free agency and grab a 2nd tier cb, draft one late and draft a Safety mid rounds and sign one in free agency.

    Why does it have to be just S or CB, we need help in both areas and will upgrade wherever we can. Come on guys, these guys are covering up ok but not the future here...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    In Response to Re: future defensive backfield:
    [QUOTE]Well first I'd let Williams and Jones go and make Moore and Molden camp decisions for CB's For S Brown, Barrett, Lockett are all gone with Ventrone being a PS emergency player If what I said is the case all you need in the CB position is a starting caliber vet to come in and take control of the CB's so I wouldn't use a pick on CB The S core though has holes in it. If McCourty moves to FS permanently I still think you either need to draft a young player who can switch from FS/SS high (Lester or Barron) or you go out on the FA market and get a vet like Goldson or Harris and maybe draft a project S late. If McCourty stays as a CB I think you need to draft a FS high (Lester or Martin) and still need to get that vet in Goldson or Harris (maybe Griffin if Tenn doesn't overpay for him)
    Posted by PatsEng[/QUOTE]

    Eng, I am glad someone is thinking straight on this one...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    Eng, you made a good suggestion for FS. Edleman!  If any one of these can stick in the back end its Edleman, but he cant cover slot guys all day. HE DOES like to hit and if he got bigger, he could be the dime back on side that blitzes and roams around the line as he isnt much of a ball hawk but can blitz can tackle...


    I like him there over McCourty who has the skills to play Cb, just needs technique work and to build his confidence back...
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    They are all bums except for Chung. McCourty has played like a bum most of the year, Arrington is a nice back up but a #2 corner? Really? Dowling is injury prone. This group stinks and needs a complete overhaul. I can't believe penciling in Molden, Moore, Edelman, Slater are really viable options for some?? Viable options if you want a secondary ranked at the bottom of the league. Put down the cool aid and slowly step away. The rest of the NFL would love to see this same group return so they can pump us for 400+ yards a game next year! Two high round draft picks, a quality FA, and hopefully improved play from McCourty and health for Dowling and we may have something. Crossing your fingers and putting a band aid on it doesn't cure this sore.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from JayShizzle45. Show JayShizzle45's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    In Response to Re: future defensive backfield:
    [QUOTE]They are all bums except for Chung. McCourty has played like a bum most of the year, Arrington is a nice back up but a #2 corner? Really? Dowling is injury prone. This group stinks and needs a complete overhaul. I can't believe penciling in Molden, Moore, Edelman, Slater are really viable options for some?? Viable options if you want a secondary ranked at the bottom of the league. Put down the cool aid and slowly step away. The rest of the NFL would love to see this same group return so they can pump us for 400+ yards a game next year! Two high round draft picks, a quality FA, and hopefully improved play from McCourty and health for Dowling and we may have something. Crossing your fingers and putting a band aid on it doesn't cure this sore.
    Posted by LB34[/QUOTE]

    Good post, I think people see the wins and they think this can work going forward. Not happening. schedule will be tougher next year. Brady aint getting younger, and cant have him passing for 5k again. Most of these guys couldnt make other teams practice squad for crying out loud.

    I agree on Chung, I like Arrington for his toughness and instincts in zone coverage but he is still a liability on deep routes. They need a coach to get McCourt back to form,. We saw the talent, its there. Either he is playing hurt or needs better coaching but we cant waste another high pic. Rather get a decent vet.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    In Response to Re: future defensive backfield:
    [QUOTE]Get your point but disagree at CB. We have McCourty, Arrington, and injured Dowling this year and it's one of the worst units in the league. How is that an upgrade? Unless McCourty returns to form, Dowling stays out of the trainers room, and Arrington develops better ball skills despite his ints. Too many IF's for my liking. I like Gilmore as a 3rd round pick but an inconsistent college performer is not good enough IMO. The rest are marginal prospects. As much as I would like too see front 7 help and an impact outside WR threat the secondary is too bad and lacking depth to draft a mid round corner and call it good. Bite the bullet and address the secondary in a big way this draft. And yes, get a better coach to develop them.
    Posted by LB34[/QUOTE]

    LB,
    I'm not sure what you're expecting BB to day, but McCourty, Ras-I and Aarington are all going to be on the roster next year.  If they're going to improve, it's by drafting another CB on day 1 or 2 and/or by adding another mid tier veteran.

    I disagree with you on Gilmore.  He'll come off the board in rd 2 at the latest as he's one of the better CB's in this class (assuming he declares) and has some Rd 1 upside.  He's a 6-1 195 kid with very good instincts, awareness, has the ability to quickly locate and close on the football (which is severely lacking within the current group), can play in both man/zone schemes, is an effective blitzer, plays a physical brand of football, is solid vs. the run and is proven in the SEC, having started since he's walked on campus.  He's also an academic all-conference and will play on special teams.

    The other 4 listed also all project as solid NFL CB's and day 2 picks and would be instant upgrades to their CB group.

    They're not trading up for Claiborne or Kirkpatrick and as much as I like Janoris Jenkins, he may have too many character red flags to draft in Rd 1.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    Agreed nobody is giving up on McCourty. Maybe just reconsidering his ceiling as a starting CB. In summary, quality depth has to be infused throughout this group to raise competition level for playing time and better cover for injuries. Going to the street for bums and converting slot receivers is out of necessity, not because it's a good idea. TB12 makes up for a lot of mistakes but as he ages this defense will need to improve for this winning to continue and I'm pretty sure BB knows it. The D carried the O Tom's first few years, now Tom is carrying the D. As he ages let's hope history repeats itself for the winning to continue. Go Pats!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LB34. Show LB34's posts

    Re: future defensive backfield

    Mb I guess what I'm saying is this group has under performed this year and would rather see the Pats address CB and S earlier than later in the draft. Drafting OL and risk missing out on the best of the 2nd tier secondary players (as I agree with you on Claiborne, kptrk, Jenkins) would be a mistake IMO as the secondary is clearly the biggest problem on this years team.
     
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