gasoline to the "best GM" debate

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    Great GM's hit on about 30% of their draft pick and free agent pickups, this is totally my junk science guesstimation, but it seems to be a reality.  This is pro football, a player's career can end in a heartbeat, a hit to the knee can hamper the athleticism of even the best players, the average career lasts three years.  If a GM bats 300, he is a hall of fame GM. 

    It is really easy to sit at home and play armchair GM, not taking cap implications, locker room chemistry or whether a player, no matter how great, even fits into your system. 

    All the moaners point to other players like Huff and say why didn't we sign him, Adrian Wilson is too old (even though he suffered a season ending injury) and when Huff washes out they conveniently ignore it, as if they had never said it unless of course someone calls them on their BS.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Btw, should the Pats kick the tires on Spears?

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes...

    I wonder if Curry's name came up during the Sopoaga trade talks...

    Book end pass rushers will be needed to make Manning's day a long one.

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    One of the key statements posed regularly here is bb is the greatest gm of all time.

     



    I can't recall when this statement has been uttered, I never said this, it certainly hasn't been said with the frequency and fanaticism of the "moaners, haters" or whatever cute nicknames I care to give them, who start threads ad nauseam analysing every Belichick draft pick over the last ten years, rehashing missed picks, could have hads, etc... 

    Go back over the last five pages of threads and you'll find numerous threads about how we should replace our GM, our GM is getting old etc... you won't find one entitled "BB is the greatest GM of all time."

    Of yeah and the posters who don't have the time, they conveniently post in threads all around this thread without actually seeing it, don't tell me they didn't have time because the times are clearly stamped on every post. 

    Ignore what you can't dismiss is the shelter of small minds.  Consider the title of this thread?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rkarp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Btw, should the Pats kick the tires on Spears?

    [/QUOTE]


    Yes...

    I wonder if Curry's name came up during the Sopoaga trade talks...

    Book end pass rushers will be needed to make Manning's day a long one.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I would only ask WHY are these two being released midseason? Did they trade for someone? If not its kind of strange and I would exercise caution and buyer beware. Either they dont fit the system, they werent that good or the team is packing it in and trying to save money which I dont even know is possible. Im no cap expert so do they NOT have to pay the remaining years salary if they are picked up but do pay if they dont. help me out. They are both intriging players I would look at as depth in case of Injury. Spears can give us flexiblity and Huff could play McCourtys role or Gregorys in a backup role

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I wonder is the Belichick haters will tell us how Ozzie Newsome is overrated as a GM and suggest who the Ravens could have signed instead... or is that only reserved for BB.

    Since this thread sat here untouched for a good hour now, I'll have to assume they were going to leave it alone and pretend it didn't happen.  "Hypocrites" is a word that comes to mind...

    [/QUOTE]

    Wozzy you're a Ravens fan? Otherwise why would we care what Ozzie does and suggest who they could have picked up? I root for the Pats so that who I care about and why I make suggestions who I thought can/will/could help the team 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Why is it that this generation throws the hate word around so much? This is actually a serious question from an ole timer. I see it everywhere...if someone doesn't agree with someone else they set upon them with the hate label. Where did this come from?

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm only 32 and even I don't get it. Anything that isn't bobble head agreement is considered hate and you being a hater. I just don't understand. What ever happened to having an opinion, thinking for yourself, and constructive critizism?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    "I wonder is the Belichick haters"

    I'm not a Belichick hater, I consider him one of the best GMs in the game but since he has never won a Super Bowl with all his own players, I don't grant him the status of God. 

    What I object to is the idea that his moves can't be criticized in this forum, that some kind of sacred circle has been drawn around him. 

    He's a very good GM, and in my opinion an even more superlative coach. 

    But he's not a perfect GM, he has areas where he excels (example: knowing when to cut players - uncanny, knowing how to draft late round and undrafted players.

    And areas where he doesn't excel (e.g. drafting impactful cornerbacks and high-round wide receivers,  oh and overly rigid contract negotiations see: Welker, Deoin Branch). His obsession with "value" picks other GMs have discounted has backfired of late (Hernandez, (maybe) Gronk), his "get a good deal" approach to veteran signings is a mixed bag at best (Ocho, Wilson, etc). His "value" strategy may be effective in many cases, but I reject the idea that he is some Albert Einstein and that nobody else is anywhere near him. The "smartest guy in the room" stuff is old. He's one guy doing it his way, and doing it very well, it's not the only way. He would agree with that by the way.

    Until he wins a couple Super Bowls as GM with all his own guys then we have a full right to question, not whether he is good - he is very good - but whether he is God and beyond any cricism. 

    Granted, his sustained excellence puts him ahead of some hit or miss GMs, but there have been some other very good GMs in this league. I don't see that Belichick is miles in front of other GMs, especially when you take into account that the Ravens, to take one example, have played in a much tougher division year after year than we have.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    Amendola, Edelman, Tompkins, Boyce, Dobson

    Yeah, he's awesome.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

     



    a fan can like BB and what he has done, but also point out his misfires....except on this board...on this board that thread is hijacked and the thread turns into a it's Bradys fault thread

     

     

     


    rkarp I "think" what "some" people take exception to is the portrayal that a misfire is completely inexcusable.

    As if there are no current team dynamics or circumstances that played into the decisions, either role based or financial based.

    Putting aside free agency for a moment, I rarely want the guys the Patriots pick in the draft over other available players because, as an outsider, I have ZERO intimate knowledge of the players other than watching film highlights or some games.

    We do not get to speak to the coaches personally, we do not get to run background checks on the players, etc. We also don't have to consider need at all. Just who seems to be the best "talent".

    I thought prolate wrote one time trying to show it. I never wrote about it but have quietly thought the same thing as he.

    One of the reasons we like certain players coming out is strictly on an "individual" talent basis.

    However, BB is NOT collecting talent, he is trying to build a team to executive specific roles in his specific systems. He is attempt to complete a specific vision of what he wants while also adhering to the financial  structure the Patriots as an organization have established.

    To get back to the prolate comment...

    If you go through BBs drafts and look at the picks you consider misfires, I do not think there are always overwhelmingly better choices within the next 10 picks who play the same position or are "projected" to be able to play the same role as the player BB picked. If you look at the entire draft after the pick or different roles then you are just cherry picking and being disingenuous. Just my opinion (if you are NOT collecting talent).

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2010

    McCourtey - (Kyle Wilson, Patrick Robinson, Chris Cook, Nate Allen?)

    Gronkowski - (none)

    Cunningham - (Carlos Dunlop?) No Sean Lee is not a hybrid DE/OLB. Liked him too but doesn't fit the role filled.

    Spikes - (Patrick Angerer)

    Price - (Mardy Gilyard) Mike Willaims was the 11th player following. Major character concerns supposedly worse than AH, at the time.

    Hernandez - (Dennis Pitta, Garrette Graham)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2008

    Mayo - (none)

    Wheatley - (Terrell Thomas, Charles Godfrey, Chevis Jackson)

    Crable - (Bryan Smith, Bruce Davis)

    O'Connell - (none) I do think when BB does these kinds of things they feel they are in a situation where they can afford to take shot.

    Wilhite - (Jack Ikegwuonu) Brandon Carr went on the 11th pick following(5th rd)

     

    There are probably some worse oversights and I did not look to avoid them. I simply grabbed two years I thought people considered both good and poor. As well as the draft year being at least 3 years old

    When you look at even the poor year in 2008 it is not like there were much better options to fill the roles in those spots. It is just something I personally believe people fail to look at or consider.

    I also do NOT believe BB is the best GM ever because I do not know how to even quantify that. He would probably be in the discussion during the cap era possibly?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    http://boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/time-to-fire-the-gm/100/6862653

    http://boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/belichicks-2013-draft-watch/100/6805862

    http://boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/the-time-has-come-bb/100/6865353

    http://boston.com/community/forums/sports/patriots/on-the-front-burner/pats-would-be-7-0-with-welker/100/6854228

    Just a small smattering of "Belichick sux" threads I only had to go back a few pages to pull up, this doesn't include the barrage of harping, micro managing with the same posters droning on and on EVERY thread regardless of title. 

    If I have to hear about how bad a GM he is, or that it's all Brady's fault, or that ten GM's polled chose Ozzie Newsome as the best GM (veiled shot at BB) than I'm afraid there's going to be some blowback.

    Just look at Not A Clue on this thread, reeling off a few names, I can do it too...

    Tom Brady, Vince Wilfork, Jerod Mayo, Chandler Jones, Devin McCourty.  Yeah he's awesome.

    Remember the eighties if you can or if you were around, tell me how great we were then.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    Until he wins a couple Super Bowls as GM with all his own guys then we have a full right to question, not whether he is good - he is very good - but whether he is God and beyond any cricism.



    He won three Super Bowls and went to two more with "his guys," if he didn't want these players he would have cut them. 

    As far as I know no coach has ever won Super Bowls with all rookies or players he exclusively drafted, Jimmie Johnson wasn't going to deny Charles Haley a spot along his D line because he didn't draft him, now was he?  BB didn't draft Talib, if they win this year does he not get credit because he didn't draft him?

    Just silly...

    Chandler Jones, Vollmer, Mankins, Hightower, Mayo, Gronk, Ridley... these players are awesome, most teams would bend over backwards to acquire them.  This is ridiculous.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to CablesWyndBairn's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Regardless of whether you think BB is the best GM ever or that he couldn't draft his way out of a wet paper bag, BB's dual roles as the de facto GM and head coach will never change for as long as he's here.  For me, I keep coming back to his overall success - 5 SB appearances and playoffs all but 2(?) years.  Pretty impressive.   I also won't overlook the fact that he has had a particularly tough time finding players at specific positions - WR and CB - and there have been some questionable FA moves at times, too.   

    Those that want to bash BB by saying Brady is the straw that stirs the drink overlook the fact that BB has been able to draft, develop or trade for some pretty good talent to surround Brady with over the years.  Brady couldn't have done it alone.  Has BB been perfect in acquiring talent?  Not even close.  But he's been pretty successful fielding teams that, while not always championship-calibre, have consistently been competitive.  And his coaching abilities are not in question, so if you feel he's leaving the cupboard bare talent-wise, he must be doing ok as a coach.  

    I think most fans know we have it good and that we should enjoy it while it lasts.       

    [/QUOTE]


    My whole professional life has and is based upon data and results. Results are factual data. I could argue that the results are flawed but you can't hide from results.

    During BB tenure at NE we are the most succesful franchise in the league. What else can the guy do?

    Now I live to talk about football, the good, the bad and the ugly...it's fun for me. Please don't ever take this to mean I believe that BB has done a bad job.

    If I ever met the man I would thank him for the best 13 years of football I've ever had.

    [/QUOTE]

    I cannot recall ever having seen two posters' comments with which I have been in more agreement than these.   Thank you, gents, for summing up so succinctly and eloquently what are my thoughts as well.

    NMPL - I must confess that I am also baffled by the oft-castabout word 'hate' these days.  Strikes me as playing fast and loose with the language but wha the he11 do I know.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Great GM's hit on about 30% of their draft pick and free agent pickups, this is totally my junk science guesstimation, but it seems to be a reality.

    [/QUOTE]

    I've tried to make this point a hundred times.  Leaguewide, the top half of the first round is only about a 75% hit rate, bottom half around 50%, 2nd round gets down to 30%, 3rd round around 20-25%.  These are not Pro Bowlers either, these are players who come in and simply contribute throughout their rookie contracts.  Complaining that BB misses on so many draft picks while ignoring both his hits, and the rate that the rest of the NFL hits is ridiculous.

    Even the players people point to as his first round "misses" (Meriweather, Maroney, Watson) played significant roles for the team and would not be considered a "miss" in the greater context.  Projecting how a player would fit into your system is such a crapshoot, that the best strategy is to stock up on draft picks as BB does; not so that you never miss, but so that you hit more often.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    I think the guy knows what a good football player is supposed to look like, I just think he made a mistake constantly going for value...missing on those pieces...and then having to go back and do it all over again, wasting time and resources. It took us quite a long time to find a pass rusher (Jones), and we all know all the money (Leigh Bodden, Springs, Arrington, O'Neil) and resources (draft picks) it took before we finally had to trade for a corner to play well for us.

    Honestly I think the guy is no better or worse than 90% of the GMs out there - there are always exceptions - but I think he is as capable as anyone. I just think he has had some bad luck the past few years...I think that could happen to them all, but you can't necessarily discount that either.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    I agree that BB is among the top tier of GMs and there are quite a few others who are good to great at their job, the thing that puts him over the top for me was his hiring of Bill Belichick to coach the team, that was one his best GM moves in my book and why we should consider keeping him.

    Also unlike his "value" method, 85% of the teams in the NFL would have been finished with the loss of their greatest defender.  We have lost three of our best defenders along with a handful of other starters, I still like our chances to win a Super Bowl... what other team has that depth. 

    None is the answer.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Amendola, Edelman, Tompkins, Boyce, Dobson

    Yeah, he's awesome.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's funny.  I see those names and I am happy about the young talent on our team...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I agree that BB is among the top tier of GMs and there are quite a few others who are good to great at their job, the thing that puts him over the top for me was his hiring of Bill Belichick to coach the team, that was one his best GM moves in my book and why we should consider keeping him.

    Also unlike his "value" method, 85% of the teams in the NFL would have been finished with the loss of their greatest defender.  We have lost three of our best defenders along with a handful of other starters, I still like our chances to win a Super Bowl... what other team has that depth. 

    None is the answer.

    [/QUOTE]

    Well this is where I have a different point of view than you...I think Belichick would win just as much (if not more) with just about anyone being the GM of this team. And as for us losing our best defender and still winning...I'd give the credit to Bill Belichick the coach, more so than Bill Belichick the GM. Our GM is bringing guys in off the street (every single week) and the coach is as usual, coaching the hell out of every single player...in every single situation that comes up. Too me that is what is so special about him - his ability to win games by coaching - too me there has never been anyone better. I seriously think that if he had been the coach of the Cowboys the last two years...they would of won two Super Bowls.

    I don't think he is a terrible GM, I just think his strength is his coaching ability...and that's just fine.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    We've got a darn good team builder in BB.  Does that mean every move he makes is pure genius? Does it mean his approach is flawless? Does it mean he's unquestionably better than a handful of other good GMs?  No.  He makes his share of mistakes and his value approach has some minuses along with a lot of pluses.  I don't see why people have to swing to one extreme position or the other.  It's just like American politics here it's so polarized.  My own opinion is BB is one of the best there is.  But I din't see why that should preclude any discussion of things he maybe could have done differently.  He's very, very good, but he's not perfect or infallible. Only God is supposed to be that, and even with God the evidence (war, famine, pestilence) suggests he's not quite all he's cracked up to be. 

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    If anyone here can name a GM that has been "perfect" in their personnel selections, that GM does not exist.  IT is a hit and miss endeavor and not every fan will be pleased with personnel decisions a team makes.  I have seen posters here praise a recent signing while at the same time other posters decry the very same signing.  Totally subjective and only fodder for discussions like this.  What I have noticed is some posters act like they could be a better GM than BB.  If that is the case, why are they posting here and not being the GM for some NFL team!!!!  Easy being a forum GM!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Uncle Rico. Show Uncle Rico's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    This just in!!!

     

    Mike Tomlin did make one demotion of note. Rookie first-round pick Jarvis Jones, who was elevated to starting status after the first game, is now second on the depth chart at right outside linebacker behind Jason Worilds, who opened the season as the starter.

    “He’s just not doing enough detail work right now and Jason Worilds is,” Tomlin said today at his weekly news conference. “That’s the reality of it. There is more detail in Worilds’ work right now than Jarvis.”

    It was the fifth time this season Tomlin demoted a starter in favor of a reserve. He benched Mike Adams, Ziggy Hood, Kion Wilson and Cortez Allen in previous weeks.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2013/10/29/Tomlin-meets-with-media-in-wake-of-Steelers-fifth-loss-of-2013/stories/201310290148

     

    Bill Belichick is the GM King!!

     

    Hey, what about Armsted, A. Wilson, Washington, Boyce, Amendola, Dobson, Thompkins, no Welker, and that's just this year!

    OK, maybe we need a GM.

     

    Bill Belichick is the Coaching King!!!

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

     

    One of the key statements posed regularly here is bb is the greatest gm of all time.

     



    I can't recall when this statement has been uttered, I never said this, it certainly hasn't been said with the frequency and fanaticism of the "moaners, haters" or whatever cute nicknames I care to give them, who start threads ad nauseam analysing every Belichick draft pick over the last ten years, rehashing missed picks, could have hads, etc... 

    Go back over the last five pages of threads and you'll find numerous threads about how we should replace our GM, our GM is getting old etc... you won't find one entitled "BB is the greatest GM of all time."

    Of yeah and the posters who don't have the time, they conveniently post in threads all around this thread without actually seeing it, don't tell me they didn't have time because the times are clearly stamped on every post. 

    Ignore what you can't dismiss is the shelter of small minds.  Consider the title of this thread?

    [/QUOTE]

    Not you, but I refer you to rustys 600 daily posts on the subject. Well documented.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to PatsLifer's comment:

    Not you, but I refer you to rustys 600 daily posts on the subject. Well documented.

    Rusty, Rusty, Rusty. Who cares what Rusty thinks. I wish everyone would put him on ignore. Far too many posts here are by Rusty, in response to Rusty and about Rusty. Like this thread.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: gasoline to the


    "Ted Williams was the greatest hitter of all time and only hit 400% for a single season"

    40%

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjri37. Show ghostofjri37's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    Facts:


    157-59  73%

    11 out of 14 years in playoffs

    17-7      71%

    7 AFC Title Games

    5 SB's

    I'm just curious does anyone know of a GM in the Salary Cap Era that has a resume similar to these accomplishments?

    Opinion:

     Is he the best Today? I would say he is awfully good perhaps not number one but he is in the discussion definately top 5.

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: gasoline to the

    In response to Low-FB-IQ's comment:


    rkarp I "think" what "some" people take exception to is the portrayal that a misfire is completely inexcusable.

    As if there are no current team dynamics or circumstances that played into the decisions, either role based or financial based.

    Putting aside free agency for a moment, I rarely want the guys the Patriots pick in the draft over other available players because, as an outsider, I have ZERO intimate knowledge of the players other than watching film highlights or some games.

    We do not get to speak to the coaches personally, we do not get to run background checks on the players, etc. We also don't have to consider need at all. Just who seems to be the best "talent".

    I thought prolate wrote one time trying to show it. I never wrote about it but have quietly thought the same thing as he.

    One of the reasons we like certain players coming out is strictly on an "individual" talent basis.

    However, BB is NOT collecting talent, he is trying to build a team to executive specific roles in his specific systems. He is attempt to complete a specific vision of what he wants while also adhering to the financial  structure the Patriots as an organization have established.

    To get back to the prolate comment...

    If you go through BBs drafts and look at the picks you consider misfires, I do not think there are always overwhelmingly better choices within the next 10 picks who play the same position or are "projected" to be able to play the same role as the player BB picked. If you look at the entire draft after the pick or different roles then you are just cherry picking and being disingenuous. Just my opinion (if you are NOT collecting talent).

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2010

    McCourtey - (Kyle Wilson, Patrick Robinson, Chris Cook, Nate Allen?)

    Gronkowski - (none)

    Cunningham - (Carlos Dunlop?) No Sean Lee is not a hybrid DE/OLB. Liked him too but doesn't fit the role filled.

    Spikes - (Patrick Angerer)

    Price - (Mardy Gilyard) Mike Willaims was the 11th player following. Major character concerns supposedly worse than AH, at the time.

    Hernandez - (Dennis Pitta, Garrette Graham)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    2008

    Mayo - (none)

    Wheatley - (Terrell Thomas, Charles Godfrey, Chevis Jackson)

    Crable - (Bryan Smith, Bruce Davis)

    O'Connell - (none) I do think when BB does these kinds of things they feel they are in a situation where they can afford to take shot.

    Wilhite - (Jack Ikegwuonu) Brandon Carr went on the 11th pick following(5th rd)

     

    There are probably some worse oversights and I did not look to avoid them. I simply grabbed two years I thought people considered both good and poor. As well as the draft year being at least 3 years old

    When you look at even the poor year in 2008 it is not like there were much better options to fill the roles in those spots. It is just something I personally believe people fail to look at or consider.

    I also do NOT believe BB is the best GM ever because I do not know how to even quantify that. He would probably be in the discussion during the cap era possibly?



    Couple things Low,

    Yes every GM has misfires but I do think when you are scratching your head over a pick for good reason and that player fails for that good reason then you are perfectly in the right to question why he drafted/signed him, examples: Brace - red flag was that he was a product of Raji and on an individual basis didn't show dominant tendecies when Raji wasn't getting the vast majority of the attention. Ras - multiple people on this board pointed out his nagging injury history before and after the draft and his injury red flag had pushed his stock into the late 2nd early 3rd yet BB took him where his value was without the injury history and don't compare it to Gronk because Gronk was a top 15 talent without the injury problem. Wilson - seriously where the heck did that come from? Or signing Amendola who carries his own medical history binder with him in his car. Now I can't blame BB for picks like Vereen because he wasn't an injury problem in college or Butler because he did look pretty good in college and those are just misfires that will happen.

    As for your comparison to players taken in the draft I don't think you can compare just the same position, because BB tends to like to draft positions of weakness in the draft not strength, but how about positions of need in general for the team? What about not getting a DT this year, passing over Matthews. When you go over drafts and you look at positions of need at the time compared to players they could have had there are actually quite a few players they could have had in positions of strength in the draft.

    Now I'm not saying BB is a bad GM but in all honesty he is an average to good GM at best. However, he is an exceptional coach with an all time great QB and that tends to hide a lot of the short comings of the GM as a whole. It's why I don't buy the whole check the record argument. Without Brady and BB the coach the last 6 years would have looked drastically different.

    The other thing I question is not collecting talent. True you don't want an all talent no team mentality team but on the other hand grinders and high motor guys will only get you so far. You have to have a balance between talent and team grinders to win. They had that in the past but I do think the value additions over talent in recent years has made it harder to get back over that hump. 

     
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