Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    I would put Aikman above Steve Young. Sorry. 

    Young had the numbers. But Aikman was the better quarterback. Aikman had Irvin and Moose and Emitt. But never had anything close to the trio of Rice/Taylor/Jones/Watters, and he wasn't in a "system" geared toward passing.

    I HATED the Cowboys. I was a 49ers fan when I was a young boy as much as I was a Pats fan. I loved them.

    But I was smart enough to recognize that Young's stats were inflated by surrounding talent, system, uneven competition, and Aikman just had monster games in big moments.

    I think Aikman is extremely underrated. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    Absolutely fascinating thread to read.  Couldn't care less where they rate Brady.  There's no quarterback out there I'd rather see under center for the Pats.  Not sure you can compare players from the past to today's talent with any level of accuracy but I don't really care about that.  I actually care about the only thing that Brady cares about as a player: winning the games.

    Lots of interesting posts in here though. 

    Thanks guys.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.


    I think I would put Aikman ahead of Young as well. Also, you have Jim Kelly listed twice. 

    At the end of the day, both Brady and Manning will be in the hall of fame. Ranking by ESPN and football media types is worthless. Does this ranking become "official"? NO. It's just everyone's opinion (key word) based on what they know. I don't think Brady cares if Peter King ranks him as 21 and Manning as 10. I think he only cares about how much he and the team have won, how many rings he ends up with, and focusing on filling the other 5 fingers. 


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from gr82bme. Show gr82bme's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]As if Brady couldn't have been the MVP in the one Branch was? lol Or SB 42, when he threw the go ahead TD with 2 minutes left?
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Actually BBReigns, Montana could have easily been voted MVP of the SB where Rice was ultimately chosen.  He was spectacular in that one as well.  Hey, I love Brady as much as the next Pats fan, and I'm convinced that other than BB, he's the major reason we've had the success we've had.  But he's no Joe Montana yet - may very well be (4 SBs) but not yet.  I'd place him over Bradshaw despite his 4 SBs because the Steelers, though offensively potent, won SBs with a you-gotta-be-kidding-me defense.  Also, when looking at some of the other posts here, I'm surprised folks aren't mentioning players from different eras.  Suffice it to say, one measure that's effective is not only how dominant someone was during their era, but how their records stand next to the next few folks below them.  If I had a vote, I'd vote for Jim Brown who absolutely dominated football in his day, and like Barry Sanders, retired while a relatively young guy - but if you look at Rice's stats compared to the next few below him, he's WAY, WAY in front.  So I suspect Rice will be the one that comes out on top - but hey, salient arguments can be made for alot of folks - that's what makes this whole exercise kinda' fun.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    The only fair thing to do here (IMO) is to exclude players who are still in the league. To be considered on an "all-time" list you should be retired. Even so, with both Brady and Manning still "eligible", I still would put Montana and Bradshaw at the top. Both have 4 rings, and both made clutch plays in those games. Guys like Brady and Aikman would follow, 3 rings and a lot of clutch plays. Guys like Peyton, Kelly, and Young would slip because they had some of their worst games in the postseason. Somewhere in this mix would come guys like Unitas and Starr (said list being top QBs). They won championships, and also made clutch plays in huge games. As for "adjusting" for eras, my take is this..."it is what it is". There's no accurate way to scale things like rules, salary caps, etc. It only leads to arguments (as seen above...and I did spell it right, didn't I?), and really affects the team moreso than the individual. Like someone said earlier, Montana won all his 4 SBs, and never threw an INT! Bradshaw didn't have the stats, but he came up huge in big games. You also need to consider their leadership abilities. Guys like Manning rest their laurels heavily on that, where the rings are not there. And what about someone like Otto Graham? He played for 10 years and went to the championship game every time! True, the first 4 were the AAFC, but in the NFL he had a winning percentage of 81%! So "all-time" includes a lot of guys most of us never got to see play. In the end, there is no list that will please everyone. We'll see that on the "discussion" after the countdown is over! In any case, I fail to see how Manning makes it ahead of Brady no matter how you slice it. It's not just the rings, but the quality of play in the big games, too. And Brady has done it with less talent on offense than Manning. I still hold that they should wait until a player retires to put him on such a list. It's like trying to judge a book before you read the last few chapters. Just my two cents on the subject!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation. : Can't believe I missed this thread.  Oh my.  Hi everyone.  What I'll remind everyone is that SB Rings are team efforts.  Manning would have 5 with the pats with the defense you guys had.  Top ten huh?  not too shabby. 
    Posted by Indylove[/QUOTE]

    And Manning's stats and MVPs are NOT team efforts? I guess he blocked, ran a route and made the catch as well as being the QB. Maybe he should change his name to harry potter
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Evil2010. Show Evil2010's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    Young had the numbers. But Aikman was the better quarterback. Aikman had Irvin and Moose and Emitt. But never had anything close to the trio of Rice/Taylor/Jones/Watters, and he wasn't in a "system" geared toward passing.


    You know what this post and a lot of the others are saying? You can't put up a greatest list of position players in the NFL because it's the ultimate team sport. There is no greatest QB without receivers, O lines and even a decent running game to keep the defense honest. Then there's the QB's team's defense. How great can you be if you can't get on the field or if your win/loss record stinks because your D gives up 30 points a game.

    The only measuring stick of greatness in the NFL is Lombardi trophies.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    Montana is the greatest. His superbowl every year was against the cowboys. The AFC at that time was irrelivant. After that to me Brady is the best. People argue about Adam V kicking and winning 2 or em but who got him in the position to kick the winner. They can call Manning #1 for all I care, we got 3 rings! I'd been happy just for the one in 2001. Lets see how long it takes for someone to win 2 in a row or 3 in 4.
     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from danemcmenamin. Show danemcmenamin's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    Really like the idea of not having current players on the list, first of all it keeps the old schoolers happy. I bet Brady loves the fact he's 21 and i'd say he loves the fact they disputed that. Look at our team and look at the picks we have next year, the possibilities blow my mind to be honest. All he cares about is next week, the next team, the next ring. Sometimes I wonder how he can still be this motivated and wondered if it was fake, but all you have to do is listen to his team mates to hear how much he loves the game and hates to lose. It's a privilege to have him, imagine asking manning to throw mainly short and intermediate routes haha he'd leave the team, Brady just does what he does he signifies the patriot way better than anyone before him he does his job, he comes in, he wins 70% of the time. He goes to the show and wins it. When all is said and done I think he'll be number one, he seems like the kinda guy who wants to play for many many more years    
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indylove. Show Indylove's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]Absolutely fascinating thread to read.  Couldn't care less where they rate Brady.  There's no quarterback out there I'd rather see under center for the Pats.  Not sure you can compare players from the past to today's talent with any level of accuracy but I don't really care about that.  I actually care about the only thing that Brady cares about as a player: winning the games. Lots of interesting posts in here though.  Thanks guys.
    Posted by ATJ[/QUOTE]
    This is a good post.  Don't know if you meant it exactly as it is written, but there may be no better QB for belichick ("under center for the pats") than brady. 

    I often say that manning could have had 5 rings with that Pats D.  I still think that, but as a QB for Belichick, I don't know.  Whether or not you specifically meant it, you may be absolutely right. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]  Brady without question is a all time great QB. I gave more to the guy who in every big game never miss a field goal. Because with out him we would not even be talking about this. No rings since he has been gone funny.
    Posted by CHUBBIE99[/QUOTE]
    You clearly are a Troll.  Who put the kicker in place to win the games?  Who drove  the team all the way down the field against the Rams when all the "experts" expected the Pats to run out the clock and go into overtime?
    Then you mention the rapist and his great drive? He played like crap most of the time.
    Not even close.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from boomerst3. Show boomerst3's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation. : This is a good post.  Don't know if you meant it exactly as it is written, but there may be no better QB for belichick ("under center for the pats") than brady.  I often say that manning could have had 5 rings with that Pats D.  I still think that, but as a QB for Belichick, I don't know.  Whether or not you specifically meant it, you may be absolutely right. 
    Posted by Indylove[/QUOTE]
    If Brady had the receivers Manning had he would own every QB record out there (which has nothing to do with the defense).  The one year he had Moss before getting injured he broke the TD record.  With those receivers the Pats may have had 8 SB wins.  So much for Manning.  Brady rises up in the playoffs. Manning does not.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    Manning has just compiled stats these kinds of hero-worshippers can't ignore. The only way for Brady to ultimately beat out Manning in this deal, say, ten years from now, is to get to five or six rings compares to Manning's one or two. When they retire, if Manning still has one ring and Brady has six, Brady will be the highest. If Brady has five, he'll still be right up there. Brady can't catch Manning on stats but if he picks up more rings, the voters will come around. 


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]Young had the numbers. But Aikman was the better quarterback. Aikman had Irvin and Moose and Emitt. But never had anything close to the trio of Rice/Taylor/Jones/Watters, and he wasn't in a "system" geared toward passing. You know what this post and a lot of the others are saying? You can't put up a greatest list of position players in the NFL because it's the ultimate team sport. There is no greatest QB without receivers, O lines and even a decent running game to keep the defense honest. Then there's the QB's team's defense. How great can you be if you can't get on the field or if your win/loss record stinks because your D gives up 30 points a game. The only measuring stick of greatness in the NFL is Lombardi trophies.
    Posted by Evil2010[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely agree. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TampaPete. Show TampaPete's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    I am not taking aposition as to who's better than who, but one thing I would like to point out in Montana's favor is that when he played the quarterback could be mauled without a flag.  I'll never forget the hit that the Giants nose tackle Jim Burt put on him in a playoff game.

    He had at least two herniated discs for the last couple of years he played.  A herniated disc makes lying on the couch painful.  I don't know how you step on the field and be effective.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation. : This is a good post.  Don't know if you meant it exactly as it is written, but there may be no better QB for belichick ("under center for the pats") than brady.  I often say that manning could have had 5 rings with that Pats D.  I still think that, but as a QB for Belichick, I don't know.  Whether or not you specifically meant it, you may be absolutely right. 
    Posted by Indylove[/QUOTE]

    I meant every word that I posted and feel free to interpret it any way you wish.  No question that BB and TB are a most excellent combination.  I don't get into the Manning/Brady debate nor do I wish to.  TB's the Pats QB and I'm a very happy Pats fan because of it.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw. Show Philskiw's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    I am not taking aposition as to who's better than who, but one thing I would like to point out in Montana's favor is that when he played the quarterback could be mauled without a flag.  I'll never forget the hit that the Giants nose tackle Jim Burt put on him in a playoff game.

    He had at least two herniated discs for the last couple of years he played.  A herniated disc makes lying on the couch painful.  I don't know how you step on the field and be effective

    And he never lost a superbowl. If we all remember in the superbowl against the giants Brady got the lead, put the team in position to win and the D failed.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from gianfran. Show gianfran's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    One thing that needs to be considered in comparing QBs is the amount of playing in a dome ----controlled environment.  If QB stats are generally better when playing in a dome, then Manning's stats need to be adjusted downward to reflect the fact that he's played about 50% of his games in a dome.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Patsman2. Show Patsman2's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation. : No, you CAN'T do it. You could lay out 3 points to counter it very easily if you knew what to say. The problem is, I am correct and you have nothing to say. lmao You sound like our troll friend RipFace who is insecure.  Could you be rip?  Hmm. You sure sounds like "PatStats" and other poseur Pats fans of yesteryear, don't you troll? I have an ego issue, when I ask you to explain your own premise?  Gee, tell us how that makes sense, low IQ individual.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Awww sorry poor little Rusty got his feelings hurt. Looks like from reading all the posts after this, most people believe it is still Montana over Brady at this point.  To bad your such a Homer you can't appreciate anyone not wearing a Pats uniform.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]I am not taking aposition as to who's better than who, but one thing I would like to point out in Montana's favor is that when he played the quarterback could be mauled without a flag.  I'll never forget the hit that the Giants nose tackle Jim Burt put on him in a playoff game. He had at least two herniated discs for the last couple of years he played.  A herniated disc makes lying on the couch painful.  I don't know how you step on the field and be effective And he never lost a superbowl. If we all remember in the superbowl against the giants Brady got the lead, put the team in position to win and the D failed.
    Posted by Philskiw[/QUOTE]

    That was actually Leonard Marshall, no?


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation. : Awww sorry poor little Rusty got his feelings hurt. Looks like from reading all the posts after this, most people believe it is still Montana over Brady at this point.  To bad your such a Homer you can't appreciate anyone not wearing a Pats uniform.
    Posted by Patsman2[/QUOTE]

    lmao

    http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3a3f8b050e-ea0e-4c28-9657-ad920a8bb351
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.

    In Response to Re: Get ready for it Patriot Nation.:
    [QUOTE]Rusty, where's my boy Elway in your list?
    Posted by CaptainZdeno33[/QUOTE]


    Didn't I have him in there?

    6-10 range. 

    I actually forgot to mention Bart Starr and Stauabch in the 61-0 range.  Staubach is very underrated in the all time great discussion.

     

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